|
Katy
|
Oh I find you to be optimistic in every way. Your cynicism - if that is what it should be called seems to be confined to the Cult of Bocelli.
it sounds very much as if the book you mention above was chosen for reasons other than its literary worth.
Having spent much of my life agonising over apartheid I am not sure i could cope with a book such as this. A close relative is a missionary in South Africa and I hear sufficiently harrowing stories of everyday life there through that channel.
I hate to think that literary prizes are awarded for the wrong reasons. It is like deliberately letting the naughty child win compeitions at school. well meant but misguided and patronising.
|
|
Suzanna
|
Not relating to any ongoing discussions, but just "stuff" in general .......Yesterday Martha Stewart featured an Physics Professor from MIT who showed up with an adult-sized tricycle powered by a fire extinguisher... and it worked! The principle was one of Newton's Laws (for every action..., etc) and the forcing out of gas from an attached cylinder propelled the tricycle forward. I want one.
I just ordered from Amazon, Marylou Henner's new book "Wear Your Life Well -- Use What You Have to Get What You Want". Sounds pregnant. Its one of those online features where one can browse pages from within the book.--- so I did and it appears to be a whole lot better than her last book (which was mostly about non-dairy diets and silly observations). She's not a particularly gifted author. This one is about determining what you REALLY want and going after it. And how to specifically start the process.
Since I'm always "how-to"ing myself, I'm a sucker for this kind of thought process!
|
|
Suzanna
|
I wonder if anyone is going to go "postal" on us again because I criticized Marylou Henner's writing?(Her relatives might be reading and have hurt feelings because she's not gifted!)
|
|
Katy
|
I am sure you are quaking in your shoes Suzanna.
|
|
Ciara
|
Gert wrote: <quoted text>
Ha! This is good news because, more often than not, I depress people with my cynicism. Optimism keeps you looking for the truth. If you feel there is little hope of finding it, you - and everybody else - will stop looking. Of course, no one comes to research from a vacuum. They have their perspective and values which, hopefully, they are aware of. Whether I am accurate or not, is beside the point. It enhances the quality of my life to believe ascertaining the truth is possible.
I really do enjoy historical fiction but overreact negatively at times because I have wasted many hours reading crapola fiction that has been well received and commercially successful. A WORTHLESS book I have just finished reading is "Disgrace" by Coetzee - "a bleak tale of animal and human misery in post-apartheid South Africa". This book won the 1999 Booker Award and Mr. Coetzee has won the Nobel Prize in literature. I found this to be a tale of misery, human depravity and dysfunction without redemption of any sort. If anyone has read this and can clue me into the value of Mr. Coetzee's thoughts, please do so. I threw it in the trash upon finishing it. Gert, I don't think of you as a cynic, more of a realist. I don't know how old you are but I'm in my early 50's. I have opinions and feel that I'm entitled to them, right or wrong. It is interesting to hear other opinions on many topics,sometimes it gives me a new perspective,and believe me there are times when I really need one. Life today is tough, it's hard to look at the world with hope. I read books on a variety of topics however, I also have labored over unjust circumstances around the world and have come to the conclusion that there isn't anything I can do about the misery and suffering other than support the cause in a small way. It's great to see so many entertainers support causes, many of them have their hearts in the right place but, some are just seeking more publicity or a write off. I read more fiction than I use to because I find a good, well written story enjoyable, without causing me more stress. The newspaper and the news has enough of that. When I lived in Italy the first time I visited Monaco and fell in love with the story book principality as well as the royals. I read the biography of Prince Ranier and Grace Kelly this year and loved it. It gave me a deeper understanding of their lives. Ranier was far more interesting and compassionate than he appeared. And Grace was a complicated woman of great strength. It's a good read, I recommend it....
|
|
Ciara
|
Suzanna wrote: I wonder if anyone is going to go "postal" on us again because I criticized Marylou Henner's writing?(Her relatives might be reading and have hurt feelings because she's not gifted!) You're entitled to your own opinion. Marylou reminds me of Suzanne Sommers. I read Suzanne's last book, "The Sexy Years" which was ok, but I don't find her gifted either. She's tried to make money throughout the years by writing poems, books and remember the thigh master. I've given up on books written by celebrities. Oh, oh, maybe Suzanne's family will read this too and get upset. Whatever we say someone will get upset. I'll try not to lose sleep over it...
|
|
Gert
|
Ciara wrote: <quoted text>
Gert, I don't think of you as a cynic, more of a realist. I don't know how old you are but I'm in my early 50's. I have opinions and feel that I'm entitled to them, right or wrong. It is interesting to hear other opinions on many topics,sometimes it gives me a new perspective,and believe me there are times when I really need one. Life today is tough, it's hard to look at the world with hope.
I read books on a variety of topics however, I also have labored over unjust circumstances around the world and have come to the conclusion that there isn't anything I can do about the misery and suffering other than support the cause in a small way. It's great to see so many entertainers support causes, many of them have their hearts in the right place but, some are just seeking more publicity or a write off. I read more fiction than I use to because I find a good, well written story enjoyable, without causing me more stress. The newspaper and the news has enough of that. When I lived in Italy the first time I visited Monaco and fell in love with the story book principality as well as the royals. I read the biography of Prince Ranier and Grace Kelly this year and loved it. It gave me a deeper understanding of their lives. Ranier was far more interesting and compassionate than he appeared. And Grace was a complicated woman of great strength. It's a good read, I recommend it.... Well, I am 61 and wish I were younger because I would like to do so many things and know that I will not have time for all of them and, in fact, most of them. But it would be much worse to feel that life is too long rather than too short. I have no need to feel morbid because I am healthy and fit but still the clock is ticking. Really, I don't know what I am anymore - cynic, realist, idealist, optimist or pessimist. I am always looking for some cause or source of inspiration. Greg Mortenson's life, as described in Three Cups of Tea was very meaningful. I am always looking for books to give to my mother. She is an avid reader and at 92, does not get out daily. I bought her the biography of Grace Kelly and she was horrified. Grace had few scruples and had many affairs, one with her best friend's husband. It seems it is better not to know much about Grace Kelly because she appears as such a class act. I am sorry I bought my mother the book. I am surprised to hear you speak highly of Monaco. I think of the place as decadent - the wealthy, the entitled and tax evaders. How could you fall in love with this place? I think of it as an aristocratic Las Vegas, another place I have never been and that will not change. I fall in love with rural places, small towns by the sea or in the mountains. Glitz is a turn-off.
|
|
Katy
|
Judged:
1
This weekend our newspapers have been much occupied with the wedding of princess Anne's son. Peter Pkillip's. William's girlfriend Kate middleton has also attracted some attention as she represented him at the wedding. Some of the tabloids have been rather scathing of her position as "Handmaiden in Waiting". They pointed to the fact that now 26 she has done very little since graduating from university. They claim she is just sitting back and waiting for william to pop the question. There is, of course, no guarantee that he will do so. They also mention that in obviously wanting a "Handmaiden" he is very much his father's son. Although her perceived position attracts many 2friends" the newspspers seemed to feel that she is an object of derision beause of her disinclination to work or carve a life for herself. The whole thing reminded me so much of veronica's position that it was almost uncanny.
|
|
|
|
Ciara
|
Well, Gert it seems that I don't totally agree with you. I love Monaco, not because it is decadant, I love it purely for the beauty. It's situated in a beautiful cove in the Mediterranean, simply breathtaking. I think it's one of the most elegant places that I've ever visited. The average Joe can't appear in their casino clad in flip flops and shorts. It's the playground for those with old money. As a young girl I fell in love with the fairy tale story of an American movie star and a prince. If you don't like it there then don't bother to ever visit Antibes, Cannes or St. Tropez. I agree that Grace did do her share of sleeping around, but I think that's true of many women in that business. My Mother is 79, reads 3 novels a week and simply loved the book. I guess it's a matter of taste. I can't honestly see how you could possibly compare Las Vegas to Monaco in the same breath, especially since you haven't even been there. Admittedly, LV has changed, it's not as exciting as it was. My sister-in-law lives there and has many stories to tell about it. LV was once a desert oasis, a vital, exciting as well as intersting place to visit. The "Rat Pack" helped to put it on the map. Today it's a garish barrage of show-biz glitz and ostentatiously showy. LV is the playground for those with new money to spend, and often times those without enough to bring them home.
I like the small out of the way villages in Europe as well, but they provide a totally different atmosphere. I lived in a small Italian town for a long time, and believe me I could write a book about life there.
As far as your age, well we all feel as if time is running out, but the important thing is that we realize it. I know people who don't have the desire to do anything, they haven't even traveled out of the area they live in and they're content. I guess it takes all kinds......
|
|
Ciara
|
Katy wrote: This weekend our newspapers have been much occupied with the wedding of princess Anne's son. Peter Pkillip's. William's girlfriend Kate middleton has also attracted some attention as she represented him at the wedding.
Some of the tabloids have been rather scathing of her position as "Handmaiden in Waiting". They pointed to the fact that now 26 she has done very little since graduating from university. They claim she is just sitting back and waiting for william to pop the question. There is, of course, no guarantee that he will do so.
They also mention that in obviously wanting a "Handmaiden" he is very much his father's son.
Although her perceived position attracts many 2friends" the newspspers seemed to feel that she is an object of derision beause of her disinclination to work or carve a life for herself.
The whole thing reminded me so much of veronica's position that it was almost uncanny. How interesting, I found Kate to be a refreshing face in an otherwise dull crowd. I guess that's why I always preferred Harry to William, he's a lovable rebel. I can see how you would compare Kate to Veronica, they do have some similarities. I do believe, however that Kate is certainly more intelligent. She is also far classier than VB. I hope that William doesn't dissapoint her. Somehow I don't think that he will. However, if I were in her shoes I would try and carve out a career to fall back on, one never knows how it will play out in the end. Thanks for the info, I haven't read anything here yet about the wedding, etc.....
|
|
Katy
|
Regarding the Royal Wedding there has also been much discussion of thefact that she was supposed to have given up her Catholic faith so he could retain his place as 11th in line to the throne!
I find this conclusion quite amusing for various reasons. I am surprised you haven't heard of it as he married a Canadian.
I wonder if we are in a position to judge Veronica's intelligence as compared to Kate's.
Veronica's father is a Professor of physics It does not always follow that the children will be intelligent but I think it does confer an advantage in some ways. Support and expectations for example. Kate comes from a wealthy family so the same thing applies. St Andrew's University is highly respected but is regarded incresingly as being for the rich .
I have to wonder if in both cases it is a question still of marriage being a goal in itself for young women. I wonder if there might have been more pressure to have a career if they had both been born male?
|
|
Gert
|
Katy wrote: .
I have to wonder if in both cases it is a question still of marriage being a goal in itself for young women. I wonder if there might have been more pressure to have a career if they had both been born male? As progressive and gender-blind as we may consider society to be, the handmaiden role is still very much acceptable. If we were to flip this and have a male hitch his wagon to a female luminary of some sort without pursuing a profession or having something to show for himself, we would call that guy a loser. Not so for a woman. Some would even call her lucky, a person in the right place at the right time. Back to ideas of Monoco - there's plenty of new money there. Bocelli is new money and he try to move his family, kicking and screaming there, ostensibly to acquire a multinational experience as he, oh how convenient, reaped the tax benefits. Few moves more than this, reveal the true Bocelli. Trendy beach resorts in Europe - and yes, I have not been to any one of them - turn me off because pictures I have seen show wall to wall people. I don't care how beautiful these folks are or how wealthy and famous. I don't want to be in crowds no matter how beautiful the scenery.
|
|
Ciara
|
Gert wrote: <quoted text>
As progressive and gender-blind as we may consider society to be, the handmaiden role is still very much acceptable. If we were to flip this and have a male hitch his wagon to a female luminary of some sort without pursuing a profession or having something to show for himself, we would call that guy a loser. Not so for a woman. Some would even call her lucky, a person in the right place at the right time.
Back to ideas of Monoco - there's plenty of new money there. Bocelli is new money and he try to move his family, kicking and screaming there, ostensibly to acquire a multinational experience as he, oh how convenient, reaped the tax benefits. Few moves more than this, reveal the true Bocelli.
Trendy beach resorts in Europe - and yes, I have not been to any one of them - turn me off because pictures I have seen show wall to wall people. I don't care how beautiful these folks are or how wealthy and famous. I don't want to be in crowds no matter how beautiful the scenery. Gert, I still feel that it's unfair to judge an area by pictures alone. Our beaches here are crowded in the middle of summer also. I've visited there in the fall when there are very few. I don't feel I need to defend Europe any further. It is what it is... I don't think it's fair to judge Bocelli about where he wants to live. Yes, there are tax advantages but who can blame him. Italy taxes people to death. He may be new money but believe me it's mainly old money there. If you haven't been there how can you be so certain that this isn't the case? It's so easy to judge a person on paper, but meeting and knowing a person is a different story. It would be funny, Gert if you actually met him & to your surprise you liked him. I say more power to him. If he wants to live like the rich so be it....
|
|
Gert
|
[QUOTE who="Ciara"
It's so easy to judge a person on paper, but meeting and knowing a person is a different story. It would be funny, Gert if you actually met him & to your surprise you liked him. I say more power to him. If he wants to live like the rich so be it....[/QUOTE]
I already like him. However, taking his family - two young children - from their comfortable, family centered environment in Tuscany and sticking them a high rise condo in Monte Carlo, trying to make the case that this is their primary residence, are requirement for tax breaks, was not a class act. I cannot imagine how anyone could build a case that this was the best thing for his family. Certainly, Italy will tax you to death but in life there are more important things than money. I think he has learned the hard way. I think the rush of money gave him a sort of temporary insanity.
You do not have to defend Europe to me. I have been sold years ago and that is where I vacation. I go for history and for architecture. I know there is also natural beautify but if I want natural beauty, I'll stay home. Our beaches are fabulous and not the exclusive playground for the rich and the famous. Some are but there are so many that are not. Trendy, crowded places are just not for me. My absence, I am sure, will never be noted.
|
|
Maggis
|
But he didn't move there did he? He retains his property in Tonfano? I suppose in all honesty money would corrupt the best of us for a time. Though this is a temptation I'm never likely to face it must be hard but he doesnt seem to get anytime to spend it!
|
|
Gert
|
Maggis wrote: But he didn't move there did he? He retains his property in Tonfano? I suppose in all honesty money would corrupt the best of us for a time. Though this is a temptation I'm never likely to face it must be hard but he doesnt seem to get anytime to spend it! He had it up for sale. He lives in Bocelli Central - a large converted hotel in Forte Dei Marmi near his children and former wife. This seems to be a good situation for all. I never felt Bocelli was after money, or the things it can buy, for his needs appear simple. I think he likes the idea of money and the status it brings. He also probably resents the tax code of the Italian government and was determined to beat the game. He has come to his senses, I believe. Princess Grace and her family appear to be people who were floundering through much of their lives. Maybe things are better now that they are all much older.
|
|
Katy
|
He did move there for a few years but Enrica hated it. I don't suppose Andrea was there often enough to form much of an opinion. He probably enjoyed the water sports when he was there.. The public were told that Andrea and Enrica liked the idea of the children growing up learning French and English as well as Italian.
Everyone, of course, knows about tax havens.
I should imagine that Andrea moved there on the advice of others. I think Veronica would have loved it.
It is a beautiful place and interesting to see in many ways but I know I wouldn't wish to live there.
Andrea doesn't appear to have much trouble spending his money, in my opinion. Private jets ,boats ,cars ,houses ,holidays. he probably has lots of help in spending it too. Possibly some things are less important to him than they would be to the sighted.
|
|
Simone
|
Ciara wrote: <quoted text>
Gert, I still feel that it's unfair to judge an area by pictures alone. Our beaches here are crowded in the middle of summer also. I've visited there in the fall when there are very few. I don't feel I need to defend Europe any further. It is what it is...
I don't think it's fair to judge Bocelli about where he wants to live. Yes, there are tax advantages but who can blame him. Italy taxes people to death. He may be new money but believe me it's mainly old money there. If you haven't been there how can you be so certain that this isn't the case?
It's so easy to judge a person on paper, but meeting and knowing a person is a different story. It would be funny, Gert if you actually met him & to your surprise you liked him. I say more power to him. If he wants to live like the rich so be it.... Monaco, St. Tropez and Cannes are not Europe, or even particularly representative of Europe, for that matter. I don't much like them either (and I do know them; I tend to think of them as having lots of interesting history buried beneath the rubble of celebrity). There are plenty of places in Europe where people are not parading simply to be seen and to be seen to be wealthy. They are, for me at least, of far greater interest. Each of us has different interests, after all. Thinking of the preened and "perfect" denizens of these resorts brings to mind a quote of Andrea's: "Neglected beauty is more interesting than beauty that is too cared for." I'm not sure that he would extend this maxim to other people (particularly women) but in essence, I am inclined to agree with the sentiment. I'd be interested to hear what others think, though. I must add that, as usual, I missed the weekend papers, so have heard little about the wedding or about Kate Middleton's handmaiden status. There certainly seem to be some interesting parallels with Veronica, though. Katy, however am I to catch up on Royal news? Radio 4 is failing me horribly, I fear.
|
|
Simone
|
Katy wrote: Possibly some things are less important to him than they would be to the sighted. I bet he has some seriously expensive gadgetry, though. Car substitute and all that.
|
|
Gert
|
Simone wrote: Thinking of the preened and "perfect" denizens of these resorts brings to mind a quote of Andrea's: "Neglected beauty is more interesting than beauty that is too cared for." I'm not sure that he would extend this maxim to other people (particularly women) but in essence, I am inclined to agree with the sentiment. I agree with this sentiment as well but think it is odd coming from a blind person. If you cannot see, what meaning does "neglected" or "cared for" have in terms of beauty? For me, "cared for" means contrived in some way, trying to meet a standard - a standard inevitably set by some marketing force. Being trendy, after all, is simply allowing oneself to be manipulated. Speaking of these types of resorts, a funny book comes to mind - Portofino by Frank Schaeffer. A baptist minister who lives somewhere in Europe - and whose mission in life is to convert Catholics - vacations every year in the seaside town of Portofino in the Italian Riviera. Seeing this uptight guy and his family interact with the bemused and tolerant Italians is really very amusing
|
Judge it!
Most Popular
