Shakespeare Theater mired in controversy, but the plays are the...

Lucy Babbitt, center, helps her husband Mark Frattaroli with his costume before a dress rehearsal of Shakespeare's play "Much Ado About Nothing" at Boothe Memorial Park in Stratford, CT on Wednesday July 08, 2009.

[Mr Stratford]

Just tear the friggin thing down and get it overwith then , i'm tired of reading about it, if it was worth anything to the town of Stratford you would not be reading any of this , why doesn't the town of Stratford want to preserve it ? It's part of it's History right ? Something isn't right !

[Jezebel282]

Mr Stratford wrote:

Just tear the friggin thing down and get it overwith then , i'm tired of reading about it, if it was worth anything to the town of Stratford you would not be reading any of this , why doesn't the town of Stratford want to preserve it ? It's part of it's History right ? Something isn't right !

It has never been "right". It is only by serendipity that English settlers named this place "Stratford". Like they named "New London", The "Thames" River, "Southport", "Windsor", "Oxford", etc.

FATES (AND FINANCES) CREATE A CRUEL TWIST FOR THE BARD
By NICK RAVO, Special to the New York Times
Published: Monday, May 11, 1987

"The weathered-gray teakwood theater building, similar in its octagonal design to Shakespeare's Globe Theater in London, was built on 11.4 acres on the banks of the Housatonic River by the philanthropists Lawrence Langner and Joseph Verner Reed Sr. Stratford, a predominantly blue-collar city of some 50,000 people just east of Bridgeport was selected for the site largely because of its name."

"When one of the major patrons, Mr. Reed, died in 1973, the theater continued to operate with borrowed funds, private contributions and a smattering of state money.

"By 1982, however, the theater owed $1.2 million and could not make payments on its $1.4 million mortgage. It declared bankruptcy later that year."

So much for "history".

[Shakespeare fan]

Mr Stratford wrote:

Just tear the friggin thing down and get it overwith then , i'm tired of reading about it, if it was worth anything to the town of Stratford you would not be reading any of this , why doesn't the town of Stratford want to preserve it ? It's part of it's History right ? Something isn't right !

For a long time it was part of the cultural life of this town. You are quite clearly an undeducated boob! You are what is wrong with this country.

[Asbestos Head]

Shakespeare fan wrote:

<quoted text>
For a long time it was part of the cultural life of this town. You are quite clearly an undeducated boob! You are what is wrong with this country.

If you want to see a good Shakesphere play on TV, just watch the local CSPAN. Once in a while they have the Stratford Town Council on there along with the Mayor. It would be very similar to Richard III.

[Joe DeCaro]

Jezebel282 wrote:

... It is only by serendipity that English settlers named this place "Stratford". Like they named "New London", The "Thames" River, "Southport" ...

Stratford was founded in 1639 by Puritans whose leader, the Reverend Adam Blakeman, basically ruled it as a theocracey til his death in 1665.

As Puritans weren't into plays, or even playing cards, it's very doubtful that Stratford was intentionally named after the Bard's home.

[Jezebel282]

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
Stratford was founded in 1639 by Puritans whose leader, the Reverend Adam Blakeman, basically ruled it as a theocracey til his death in 1665.
As Puritans weren't into plays, or even playing cards, it's very doubtful that Stratford was intentionally named after the Bard's home.

That's kinda my point.

By the way, did you get your veteran's tax relief that Miron promised?

[Christopher StratCT]

I wasn't even born here and I know the history with regard to the name. It's not hard to find:

"Stratford's original name was Cupheag, but was later changed to honor Stratford upon Avon in England. Despite its Puritan origins, Stratford was the site of the first Anglican church in Connecticut, founded in 1707 and ministered by the Rev. Dr. Samuel Johnson."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratford,_Conne...

So it appears it wasn't "seredipity" as Jezebel suggests. And since Stratford was not the original name of the town, with the name change coming later as a way to honor Stratford upon Avon, it's clear the Puritans had nothing to do with the name Stratford. It does appear that there was an intentional effort by the leaders of the town to honor the sister city in England.

By the way Jezebel, way to pick apart the original article. Let me see if I can do a little of that as well:

"What's in a name?" William Shakespeare asks. "Everything," says Domenico Manchisi, owner of Jerry's Shakespeare Pizza.

"Why should they want to take Shakespeare out?" Mr. Manchisi said. "It's been there for so long. It's only one of two or three in the world."

"Some 3 million patrons over the past three decades (1955-1983) have watched performances in Shakespearean plays by such actors as James Earl Jones, Katharine Hepburn and Christopher Plummer."

As far as the financial quagmire that occured back in the 1980's, that is as much the result of poor management, and not a reflection of the facility's viability as a performing arts venue. The original company never had an endowment, a common but vexing problem with many cultural institutions even today. The fact that the organization operating the facility at the time failed administratively and financially doesn't mean the facility itself couldn't be sustainable or even profitable.

[Jezebel282]

Christopher StratCT wrote:

I wasn't even born here and I know the history with regard to the name. It's not hard to find:
"Stratford's original name was Cupheag, but was later changed to honor Stratford upon Avon in England. Despite its Puritan origins, Stratford was the site of the first Anglican church in Connecticut, founded in 1707 and ministered by the Rev. Dr. Samuel Johnson."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratford,_Conne...
So it appears it wasn't "seredipity" as Jezebel suggests. And since Stratford was not the original name of the town, with the name change coming later as a way to honor Stratford upon Avon, it's clear the Puritans had nothing to do with the name Stratford. It does appear that there was an intentional effort by the leaders of the town to honor the sister city in England.
By the way Jezebel, way to pick apart the original article. Let me see if I can do a little of that as well:
"What's in a name?" William Shakespeare asks. "Everything," says Domenico Manchisi, owner of Jerry's Shakespeare Pizza.
"Why should they want to take Shakespeare out?" Mr. Manchisi said. "It's been there for so long. It's only one of two or three in the world."
"Some 3 million patrons over the past three decades (1955-1983) have watched performances in Shakespearean plays by such actors as James Earl Jones, Katharine Hepburn and Christopher Plummer."
As far as the financial quagmire that occured back in the 1980's, that is as much the result of poor management, and not a reflection of the facility's viability as a performing arts venue. The original company never had an endowment, a common but vexing problem with many cultural institutions even today. The fact that the organization operating the facility at the time failed administratively and financially doesn't mean the facility itself couldn't be sustainable or even profitable.

I just went with the NY Times. I'm addicted to it, what can I say?

And the only profitable enterprise in Stratford with the name "Shakespeare" on it has been "Jerry's Shakespeare Pizza". Home of the finest Sicilian pies outside of Brooklyn.

[Christopher StratCT]

Jezebel282 wrote:

<quoted text>
I just went with the NY Times. I'm addicted to it, what can I say?
And the only profitable enterprise in Stratford with the name "Shakespeare" on it has been "Jerry's Shakespeare Pizza". Home of the finest Sicilian pies outside of Brooklyn.

Does this need to be explained to you again?

A non-profit entity is not created in order to earn a profit for stakeholders. So your implication that the theatre was never "profitable" is absurd.

The organization operated at a deficit because of poor management and planning. Had an endowment been created for the organization, had proper strategic planning occured, had there been any number of other actions taken, the outcome might have been very different.

You're naive assumption that the failure was a result of the facility itself has no foundation.

[Joe DeCaro]

Jezebel282 wrote:

That's kinda my point.
By the way, did you get your veteran's tax relief that Miron promised?

Nope, and yes, I agree w/your point.

[Jezebel282]

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
Nope, and yes, I agree w/your point.

Ummm....It seems that you're not going to get it either.

[Joe DeCaro]

Christopher StratCT wrote:

I wasn't even born here and I know the history with regard to the name. It's not hard to find:
"Stratford's original name was Cupheag, but was later changed to honor Stratford upon Avon in England. Despite its Puritan origins, Stratford was the site of the first Anglican church in Connecticut, founded in 1707 and ministered by the Rev. Dr. Samuel Johnson."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratford,_Conne... ...

Christopher, I wasn't born here either, but the footnote for the Wiki quote is the website for Christ Episcopal Church, Stfd., and that only verifies that it was founded by Dr. Johnson.

(Relations between Puritans and Anglicans in early Stfd is sad story.)

But there is no hard info or reference backing-up the claim that our town was so named as to honor the Bard, so I take this reference -- like most Wiki articles -- w/a grain of salt.

[Christopher StratCT]

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
Christopher, I wasn't born here either, but the footnote for the Wiki quote is the website for Christ Episcopal Church, Stfd., and that only verifies that it was founded by Dr. Johnson.
(Relations between Puritans and Anglicans in early Stfd is sad story.)
But there is no hard info or reference backing-up the claim that our town was so named as to honor the Bard, so I take this reference -- like most Wiki articles -- w/a grain of salt.

I didn't say it was named in honor of Shakespeare, I said it was named in honor of Stratford Upon Avon. Many of the towns and cities created during colonial times took their names from European sister cities.

The fact that it was Shakespeare's birthplace and its historical importance as such are the connection to our town.

The footnote is in reference to the information regarding the founding of the first Anglican church, not the reference to Cupheag.

Here's a link for a book on the history of Stratford:

http://books.google.com/books...

There's some fascinating information in the book, although it's a bit tough to read online.

[To ChrisTroll]

Miracle of Miracles, I finally agree with you on this one!
With history being one of my hobbies, I believe Chris is right here, and I also believe the theater is worth saving.
Where we disagree is how to save it.
But I'll leave that alone for once, because this time the Troll makes sense and because that's so rare, I have to at least give him credit this time.
I'm sure it will never happen again. But this time, Chris, my boy, you are right.
Sorry Jez, sorry Joe. It pains me to admit it, but you guys are wrong on this one.

[Jezebel282]

To ChrisTroll wrote:

Miracle of Miracles, I finally agree with you on this one!
With history being one of my hobbies, I believe Chris is right here, and I also believe the theater is worth saving.
Where we disagree is how to save it.
But I'll leave that alone for once, because this time the Troll makes sense and because that's so rare, I have to at least give him credit this time.
I'm sure it will never happen again. But this time, Chris, my boy, you are right.
Sorry Jez, sorry Joe. It pains me to admit it, but you guys are wrong on this one.

You read too quickly.

Christopher and I have always agreed that tax money should not be used without a reasonable expectation of repayment (within a lifetime).

Even if it were only 10 years with some sort of bond or surety (like a sane lender would require) I'd be helping make the posters.

I would leave the rest up to someone with the experience like Christopher has.

He is a total moron concerning the mayor and his cronies, but he's right here.

[Joe DeCaro]

Christopher StratCT wrote:

I didn't say it was named in honor of Shakespeare, I said it was named in honor of Stratford Upon Avon. Many of the towns and cities created during colonial times took their names from European sister cities ...

Isn't that what Jez also posted?

Jezebel282 wrote:

... It is only by serendipity that English settlers named this place "Stratford".
Like they named "New London", The "Thames" River, "Southport", "Windsor", "Oxford", etc....

I also don't think the Puritans named this town in honor of Shakespeare; they weren't exactly thespians back in jolly olde England, either.

[Christopher StratCT]

Wow, thanks Jezebel!

And right back at you, you narrow minded dolt.

[Christopher StratCT]

To ChrisTroll wrote:

Miracle of Miracles, I finally agree with you on this one!
With history being one of my hobbies, I believe Chris is right here, and I also believe the theater is worth saving.
Where we disagree is how to save it.
But I'll leave that alone for once, because this time the Troll makes sense and because that's so rare, I have to at least give him credit this time.
I'm sure it will never happen again. But this time, Chris, my boy, you are right.
Sorry Jez, sorry Joe. It pains me to admit it, but you guys are wrong on this one.

Why thank you obnoxious twit.

Just curious what are your thoughts are on the way to save it. I think there are many possible scenarios, but I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

[Christopher StratCT]

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
Isn't that what Jez also posted?
<quoted text>
I also don't think the Puritans named this town in honor of Shakespeare; they weren't exactly thespians back in jolly olde England, either.

Joe, I'm not trying to be snide, but seredipity means something happens accidentally. I highly doubt the naming of the town was accidental. The naming may not have had anything to do with Shakespeare, but I highly doubt it was accidental or random.

Again, never said it was named in honor of Shakespeare.

[Joe DeCaro]

Christopher StratCT wrote:

Joe, I'm not trying to be snide, but seredipity means something happens accidentally ... The naming may not have had anything to do with Shakespeare ...

seredipity
1. The faculty of making fortunate discoveries by accident.
2. The fact or occurrence of such discoveries.
3. An instance of making such a discovery.

I think Jez simply used the wrong word in to describe how our towns are named; they are named after already existing English towns because they were founded by fellow Englishmen.

And yes, Stfd probably wasn't named in honor of the Bard, so theater is not part of our early history, esp. when that history was begun by the toughest theater critics in the world: Puritans.