If vegans are so healthy and smart

If vegans are so healthy and smart

Posted in the Animal Rights Forum

“It is what it is”

Since: May 11

Chicago

#1 Jun 24, 2012
Then why is Alicia Silverstone so stupid and why did Robin Gibb die of colon cancer?

Hmmmmm.....
Suzanne

Omaha, NE

#2 Jun 24, 2012
Well, don't know about Silverstone (and don't really care much), but it's my understanding colon problems are genetic in the Gibb family (ie, his twin dying from complications of a twisted intestine about 10 years ago and 2 uncles apparently dying even younger than HE did from colon cancer, at 61 and 37! would seem to back this up). Robin probably SHOULD have been screened much earlier (and may not have been), but I think you have to at least chalk part of that situation up to "hereditary/genetic" issues.
wow

Caerphilly, UK

#3 Jun 24, 2012
ItIs wrote:
Then why is Alicia Silverstone so stupid and why did Robin Gibb die of colon cancer?
Hmmmmm.....
a vegan can be healthy or unhealthy, it depends what he/she eats. if the vegan eats nothing but junk food (which some do) then they're obviously going to unhealthy. if the vegan eats a balanced diet which is rich in vegetables and fruit and if they get enough exercise, then they're going to be healthy.

the only vegans that claim that all vegans are healthy are the extremists and they're a tiny minority.

i know you're just trolling, but i thought i would answer anyway :)

“It is what it is”

Since: May 11

Chicago

#4 Jun 24, 2012
Not trolling. Asking a question.

Vegans here seem to think the "China Study" proves claims for a "long, healthy life." Couldn't be further from the truth then, if hereditary trumps.

As for Alicia Silverstone, can't tell me that girl has a brain. Uses her mouth as a foodprocesser? Then spits in her kids mouth?
Suzanne

Omaha, NE

#5 Jun 25, 2012
Um.....FWIW, I never said "hereditary issues trump all", what I said was in the case of the Gibb family, genetics apparently DID matter, but it doesn't appear this is all that common of a situation. Some families have weird genes....and in the case of the Gibb family, it only appears to hit the men in the family (yes, from their father's side...Robin Gibb's mother is still living at 90+ and has now buried her three youngest children.....sorry, been a fan for too long, obviously). In any case, this appears to be more a case of a fairly rare gene and can't really be used to judge whether going vegan does (or doesn't) mean a healthier lifestyle.

“It is what it is”

Since: May 11

Chicago

#6 Jun 26, 2012
Seems to me it's more of a matter that genetics do trump diet. Diet is a small factor in health.

Diabetes? Type I, hereditary.
Many forms of cancer, breast and colon, hereditary.
Other forms of cancer, particularly cervical, have been tied to viral.
AID/HIV? Directly tied to one's sexual behavior.

Many of these discoveries, how were they found and research? Animals.

Obesity? One can be fat on a vegan diet. Again, behavior. One can be very skinny and eat meat.

No cure for stupidity. Alicia Silverstone will remain stupid no matter the diet.
Suzanne

Omaha, NE

#7 Jun 26, 2012
ItIs wrote:
Seems to me it's more of a matter that genetics do trump diet. Diet is a small factor in health.
Diabetes? Type I, hereditary.
Many forms of cancer, breast and colon, hereditary.
Other forms of cancer, particularly cervical, have been tied to viral.
AID/HIV? Directly tied to one's sexual behavior.
Many of these discoveries, how were they found and research? Animals.
Obesity? One can be fat on a vegan diet. Again, behavior. One can be very skinny and eat meat.
No cure for stupidity. Alicia Silverstone will remain stupid no matter the diet.
Ok, since you're still not really getting my point, going back to the Gibb family situation, and argument COULD be made that Robin Gibb (who, according to his family did NOT actually die from colon cancer, but liver and kidney failure.....ie, side effects of aggressive chemotherapy, but I digress) actually did BETTER because of his vegan diet than the three most recent members of his family to die with colon/intestinal related issues. I know his twin, Maurice was NOT a vegan and died 2003 from a condition Robin ALSO had (an emergency surgery to correct it in 2010 was how the cancer was found in the first place...he also had another surgery for the twisted bowel condition in March again.....so it's highly believable he really DID die from too many complications related to genetics, really. It appears neither uncle who died was vegan either. Did Robin live an "extra" nine years because he was a vegan that Maurice didn't? Well, they weren't identical, but considering twins, but considering they BOTH had the twisted intestine problem, it appears they may have more "similar" genes than most other siblings. Maurice also had an alcohol problem that Robin didn't, so who knows. My point in all this has been, I don't think we can ASSUME hereditary factors are the ultimate factor. The father of the famous Gibb brothers made it past 70 and DIDN'T die of colon related issues. Barry Gibb (the oldest brother) has made it past 65 without seeming to have any
intestinal problems (he's had other health problems, but no G/I ones), right now, it appears next of the "next generation" of this family has this problem (but most are still under 40). I AM aware that there are certainly screening methods available to find out if the specific gene that causes this particular type of intestinal issues is available (at least in the US), but there is NO other real evidence that things like breast cancer/prostate cancer/etc. are due to genetics, diet or, as *I* tend to think it likely that people are just living longer (remember the average life span at the beginning of the 20th century was in the 40s), so are more prone to have something like this happen than in previous eras (not to mention methods of detection have gotten better in the last few decades). BTW, you are NOT arguing this with a vegan, so assuming I'm defending any specific diet of own is not a good idea....that is if you really aren't purposely trolling here.:)

“It is what it is”

Since: May 11

Chicago

#8 Jun 27, 2012
Suzanne wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, since you're still not really getting my point,
Did you get mine? Or just feel a need to rant?

Does it seem as if diet really is much of a factor at all?

Doesn't it seem as if there are many factors?

You may be crazy in love with the Gibbs and know all of his details from reading magazines, but the point is not just Gibbs.

Reading the rest of your post well, was like maybe this, maybe that, people living longer now. And why are people living longer? That can't be genetics necessarily. Might it be modern medicine? Might that be diet? Given the claim that a heavy meat diet is a factor of colon cancer, relevant here.

And yes, often people die from the SIDE effects of treatment, especially if their immune system is compromised.

If one uses modern medicine, then how can one be "vegan" or for "animal rights?"

Can you break it up into readable sentences?
Suzanne

Omaha, NE

#9 Jun 27, 2012
ItIs wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you get mine? Or just feel a need to rant?
Does it seem as if diet really is much of a factor at all?
Doesn't it seem as if there are many factors?
You may be crazy in love with the Gibbs and know all of his details from reading magazines, but the point is not just Gibbs.
Reading the rest of your post well, was like maybe this, maybe that, people living longer now. And why are people living longer? That can't be genetics necessarily. Might it be modern medicine? Might that be diet? Given the claim that a heavy meat diet is a factor of colon cancer, relevant here.
And yes, often people die from the SIDE effects of treatment, especially if their immune system is compromised.
If one uses modern medicine, then how can one be "vegan" or for "animal rights?"
Can you break it up into readable sentences?
Well, to address your last question first...usually yes, when I'm not exhausted and it's late.

And yes, I do get your point......you're interested in finding ANY reason for vegan diets to NOT be a factor in healthier/longer life, and "family history" is the easiest and most plausible alternative, so you're using that. My own point is that it's a more likely a variety of factors......genetics, diet AND longevity all being part of them.

I did find this debate because I was following up on the Robin Gibb situation since I had been a fan for a long time and this showed up on Google, but one of the REASONS I was following the situation is because it DID strike so close to home. Lost my mother about three years ago due to complications due to colon cancer...absolutely NO family history of it....and she wasn't a vegan, either....she did fit into the "longevity may be part of the issue" category though. Sorry, I loved my mother, so perhaps trying to avoid getting into the personal when I'm told "heredity is all that matters" is something I have little patience for. I'd appreciate your edification on how my mom's condition was "genetic", though.

My point still remains that there are a variety of factors that go into each case of cancer, and that there's no way to make ANY definit5ive statement that all (or even most) are attributable to any one factor, and each has to be looked at on an individual basis. You can believe whatever you want, but I'd think coming into an area where people do tend to be "pro-vegan", you're not likely to get many converts when you say "diet isn't a factor"
..unless again, you're purposely trolling, as the "judge it" votes seem to indicate.

Well, it's been fun, but is starting to be a bit circular for me, so if anyone else wants to continue this debate, you're welcome....think I'm out though.

Since: Jan 09

KEEP OUT

#10 Jun 27, 2012
ItIs wrote:
Then why is Alicia Silverstone so stupid and why did Robin Gibb die of colon cancer?
Hmmmmm.....
http://www.asylum.com/2008/09/ 15/a-vegertarian-diet-shrinks- the-brain/
hunters are COWARDS

Virginia Beach, VA

#12 Jun 27, 2012
Christmas Hunter wrote:
You mean this one:
http://www.cafepress.com/alley.161262842

“It is what it is”

Since: May 11

Chicago

#14 Jun 30, 2012
Suzanne wrote:
<quoted text>you're interested in finding ANY reason for vegan diets to NOT be a factor in healthier/longer life, and "family history" is the easiest and most plausible alternative, so you're using that. My own point is that it's a more likely a variety of factors......genetics, diet AND longevity all being part of them.
No. I'm interested in proving the point that there is a multitude of factors involved, and that diet is not a substantial factor for the majority of the population. Hell, woman, I've had a grandfather who lived to 95 who smoke, drank, and ate bacon every morning. What did he die of? Pneumonia after a fall that broke his hip. Pretty standard in the elderly.
Suzanne wrote:
<quoted text>

I did find this debate because I was following up on the Robin Gibb situation since I had been a fan for a long time and this showed up on Google, but one of the REASONS I was following the situation is because it DID strike so close to home. Lost my mother about three years ago due to complications due to colon cancer...absolutely NO family history of it....and she wasn't a vegan, either....she did fit into the "longevity may be part of the issue" category though. Sorry, I loved my mother, so perhaps trying to avoid getting into the personal when I'm told "heredity is all that matters" is something I have little patience for. I'd appreciate your edification on how my mom's condition was "genetic", though.
Again, see above. Humans aren't supposed to live forever. If that upsets you, then I am sorry. When your ride is up, your ride is up. Off you go.

We can't predict with any certainty many diseases that will strike specific individuals. Do you not understand that genetics can influence but perhaps not cause? Or is this clear as mud?
Suzanne wrote:
<quoted text>
My point still remains that there are a variety of factors that go into each case of cancer, and that there's no way to make ANY definit5ive statement that all (or even most) are attributable to any one factor, and each has to be looked at on an individual basis. You can believe whatever you want, but I'd think coming into an area where people do tend to be "pro-vegan", you're not likely to get many converts when you say "diet isn't a factor"
..unless again, you're purposely trolling, as the "judge it" votes seem to indicate.
Well, it's been fun, but is starting to be a bit circular for me, so if anyone else wants to continue this debate, you're welcome....think I'm out though.
My point is: being scrupulous about anything, diets in case here, isn't necessarily the best thing. Yes, you were getting circular. Perhaps you're still trying to make sense of your mother's death? Understandable, but there are things we probably will never understand or control. Sometimes, better to accept. Vegan diets are not all that they are sold to be, either. There are serious drawbacks to them, for many.
Hmmmmmm

Paris, TN

#15 Jul 1, 2012
wow wrote:
<quoted text> a vegan can be healthy or unhealthy, it depends what he/she eats. if the vegan eats nothing but junk food (which some do) then they're obviously going to unhealthy. if the vegan eats a balanced diet which is rich in vegetables and fruit and if they get enough exercise, then they're going to be healthy.
the only vegans that claim that all vegans are healthy are the extremists and they're a tiny minority.
i know you're just trolling, but i thought i would answer anyway :)
correct the first time-trolling and attacking!lol
Suzanne

Omaha, NE

#16 Jul 5, 2012
Hmmmmmm wrote:
<quoted text>correct the first time-trolling and attacking!lol
So does this mean my work here is done?:)
gokeefe

Galloway, OH

#17 Jul 5, 2012
Funny how it always seems when someone does bring a reasoned approach and you can't discuss rationally, it's time to go the troll route.

Chim Chim done taught you well!

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