Why hunting is bad

“FED UP WITH TOPIX”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#23 Aug 20, 2011
Virginia Vegetarian wrote:
In this country, hunting is not a sport, pasttime, activity,'management plan' or tradition. It is an industry. An industry that produces a product (game animals) for sale to consumers (hunters). Hunters can spin it any way they want, but it still comes down to money. Hunting is a business. A business that has reduced beautiful creatures to an industrial resource or raw material like iron ore, coal, timber or water. Their motives for 'conserving wildlife and habitat' are altruistic to the same extent that Weyerhaeuser's are.
Agreed and very well stated, hunting has become a billion dollar industry, it's disgusting. Wild animals are the unseen victims of human exploitation. Hunters have way too much power over wildlife, and their power over wildlife resides in an archaic funding structure.

“FED UP WITH TOPIX”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#24 Aug 20, 2011
Squach wrote:
<quoted text>Excuse me, legal regulated hunting IS a science based management policy. The rules and regulations are adjusted annually by and army of scientists called "wildlife experts". They have moved away from the "bucks only" method of years ago to a more balanced policy. We even have a does only season now because the experts, through scientific study, have determined that the doe population needs to be managed better. There are very stringent laws and regulations dictating what sex, what area, and what times a hunter may harvest the particular species. All of these laws and regulations are based on scientific study and aimed at sound management of the species in question.
Pro-hunting babble.. Nature manages itself through size of habitat, availability of food and water, natural predators,etc. Most states deliberately boost deer populations to provide prey for hunters. State game agencies allow hunting to “manage” artificially stimulated “surplus animals.” There are no surpluses in nature. Ecology functions in natural cycles. Hunting does not exist to manage wildlife, hunting only exists as a so-called “enjoyable recreation” for the depraved.

It’s simple science: When part of the animal population is removed, new animals migrate in, or the remaining population rebounds due to food abundance. The deer propagate and the population increases. Since hunters always want more deer to shoot, they kill bucks over does. Pregnant does left with an ample food supply tend to give birth to a higher ratio of fawns. In most states there are 3 does for every buck. With less bucks competing for territory, mating becomes the primary focus of the herd.

Starvation? When is the last time you heard a hunter claim to track down the sickest, thinnest deer in an effort to “wean” the herd? Natural selection maintains deer herd size. Starvation is an essential mechanism of natural selection. Without humans, guns, arrows or traps—the weak naturally die off and the strong survive. Some wild areas preserved for hunting alter terrain to favor target animals. Manipulating nature to favor one species causes the endangerment or extinction of another.

According to the Federal Endangered Species Act:“The 2 major causes of extinction are hunting and habitat destruction.”

“FED UP WITH TOPIX”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#25 Aug 20, 2011

“Bowhunting Is Euphoric”

Since: Jan 09

Double Lung em

#26 Aug 20, 2011
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
Pro-hunting babble.. Nature manages itself through size of habitat, availability of food and water, natural predators,etc.
Perhaps you are too dimwitted to grasp this but humans ARE natural predators and always have been. The rest of your rant is anti-hunting psycho babble.

Until your ARA opinions, conjectures and pseudo-science are able to legally override management science, the wildlife biologists who practice it, the legislatures who approve it and the 75% of the population who consistently support it, regulated hunting/fishing will remain one of the primary tools of conservation.

“HUNTING RIGHTS ADVOCATE”

Since: Oct 08

Boggy Creek

#27 Aug 20, 2011
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
Pro-hunting babble.. Nature manages itself through size of habitat, availability of food and water, natural predators,etc. Most states deliberately boost deer populations to provide prey for hunters. State game agencies allow hunting to “manage” artificially stimulated “surplus animals.” There are no surpluses in nature. Ecology functions in natural cycles. Hunting does not exist to manage wildlife, hunting only exists as a so-called “enjoyable recreation” for the depraved.
It’s simple science: When part of the animal population is removed, new animals migrate in, or the remaining population rebounds due to food abundance. The deer propagate and the population increases. Since hunters always want more deer to shoot, they kill bucks over does. Pregnant does left with an ample food supply tend to give birth to a higher ratio of fawns. In most states there are 3 does for every buck. With less bucks competing for territory, mating becomes the primary focus of the herd.
Starvation? When is the last time you heard a hunter claim to track down the sickest, thinnest deer in an effort to “wean” the herd? Natural selection maintains deer herd size. Starvation is an essential mechanism of natural selection. Without humans, guns, arrows or traps—the weak naturally die off and the strong survive. Some wild areas preserved for hunting alter terrain to favor target animals. Manipulating nature to favor one species causes the endangerment or extinction of another.
According to the Federal Endangered Species Act:“The 2 major causes of extinction are hunting and habitat destruction.”
More propaganda from ARA sources. If you don't think that the population of a species needs to be controlled to fit the habitat available just study what happened at Loch Raven MD. You say that hunting is a cause of extinction and you are partially correct. UNREGULATED hunting has, in the past, been a cause of extinction. REGULATED hunting, on the other hand, has been proven to be a cost effective and efficient means of population control. The other cause you mention is loss of habitat, this is where you need to look very carefully at incidents like Loch Raven. The white tail deer had overpopulated in the absence of regulated hunting for decades to the Nth degree. The deer had literally destroyed the very habitat on which they depended. The deer started to starve as well as other species that the habitat could no longer support. The habitat is also part of the watershed for the Baltimore metropolitan area which put the water supply in jeopardy. Regulated hunting was re-introduced to the equation and now the deer and the habitat are on the rebound as well as many other species that inhabit that area. Don't take my word for it, look it up for yourself. I'm sure you'll find other examples across the country.

“FED UP WITH TOPIX”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#28 Aug 20, 2011
hiss of death wrote:
<quoted text>Perhaps you are too dimwitted to grasp this but humans ARE natural predators and always have been. The rest of your rant is anti-hunting psycho babble.
Until your ARA opinions, conjectures and pseudo-science are able to legally override management science, the wildlife biologists who practice it, the legislatures who approve it and the 75% of the population who consistently support it, regulated hunting/fishing will remain one of the primary tools of conservation.
Human beings are not natural predators, scientific evidence has proved that. And are you able to have a discussion without the sh*t flinging? or is an intellectual debate too much for you to handle?

“Bowhunting Is Euphoric”

Since: Jan 09

Double Lung em

#29 Aug 20, 2011
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
Human beings are not natural predators, scientific evidence has proved that. And are you able to have a discussion without the sh*t flinging? or is an intellectual debate too much for you to handle?
Your pseudo-science is FAR from intellectual debate and there is ample scientific proof and evolutionary evidence that humans are predators. There is absolutely ZERO proof of any kind to refute this.

“FED UP WITH TOPIX”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#30 Aug 20, 2011
Squach wrote:
<quoted text>More propaganda from ARA sources. If you don't think that the population of a species needs to be controlled to fit the habitat available just study what happened at Loch Raven MD. You say that hunting is a cause of extinction and you are partially correct. UNREGULATED hunting has, in the past, been a cause of extinction. REGULATED hunting, on the other hand, has been proven to be a cost effective and efficient means of population control. The other cause you mention is loss of habitat, this is where you need to look very carefully at incidents like Loch Raven. The white tail deer had overpopulated in the absence of regulated hunting for decades to the Nth degree. The deer had literally destroyed the very habitat on which they depended. The deer started to starve as well as other species that the habitat could no longer support. The habitat is also part of the watershed for the Baltimore metropolitan area which put the water supply in jeopardy. Regulated hunting was re-introduced to the equation and now the deer and the habitat are on the rebound as well as many other species that inhabit that area. Don't take my word for it, look it up for yourself. I'm sure you'll find other examples across the country.
Hunting is not practical. The vast majority of hunted species do not even require population control. The current system of wildlife management has been nothing more than a biological, and ecological disaster for wildlife populations. Hunting does not control overpopulation, but in fact contributes to it. Hunting under the guise of conservation and wildlife management has never been nothing more than a tool of wildlife agencies to promote their "sport" and in the process generate millions of dollars in revenue at the expense of animals. Killing free-living animals is a tradition we would do well to outgrow, it is a tradition of inhumanity.

“FED UP WITH TOPIX”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#31 Aug 20, 2011
hiss of death wrote:
<quoted text>Your pseudo-science is FAR from intellectual debate and there is ample scientific proof and evolutionary evidence that humans are predators. There is absolutely ZERO proof of any kind to refute this.
Wrong, our intelligence, cooperation and many other features we have as modern humans developed from our attempts to outsmart natural predators, we are actually a prey species, opportunistic, scavengers. Modern day humans are still preyed upon in some places.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigph...

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Early-Human-wa...

http://news.discovery.com/history/human-ances...

http://books.google.com/books...

“HUNTING RIGHTS ADVOCATE”

Since: Oct 08

Boggy Creek

#32 Aug 20, 2011
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
Hunting is not practical. The vast majority of hunted species do not even require population control. The current system of wildlife management has been nothing more than a biological, and ecological disaster for wildlife populations. Hunting does not control overpopulation, but in fact contributes to it. Hunting under the guise of conservation and wildlife management has never been nothing more than a tool of wildlife agencies to promote their "sport" and in the process generate millions of dollars in revenue at the expense of animals. Killing free-living animals is a tradition we would do well to outgrow, it is a tradition of inhumanity.
Did you even bother to check out the case I spoke of? Try checking out the feral hog problems. Or look at what's happening to the wolf population since they've been reintroduced and protected. Whether you believe they are overpopulated now or not, it's quite obvious that the population is growing much faster than anyone expected and shows no sign of slowing. How do you suggest we deal with these situations if not by regulated hunting? Do you believe that, left unchecked, the feral hogs will stop spreading and being a highly destructive force wherever they go, or the wolf will stop multiplying and seeking out new territory before they clash catastrophically with civilization?

“Bowhunting Is Euphoric”

Since: Jan 09

Double Lung em

#33 Aug 20, 2011
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, our intelligence, cooperation and many other features we have as modern humans developed from our attempts to outsmart natural predators, we are actually a prey species, opportunistic, scavengers. Modern day humans are still preyed upon in some places.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigph...
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Early-Human-wa...
http://news.discovery.com/history/human-ances...
http://books.google.com/books...
Your links are ALL admitted theories and not proof of anything. Fact is, hunter gatherer cultures have existed for hundreds of thousands of years.

And of course man was occasionally prey. So is/was every creature that has ever existed on this planet, even if their predators were a virus.

“FED UP WITH TOPIX”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#34 Aug 20, 2011
Squach wrote:
<quoted text>Did you even bother to check out the case I spoke of? Try checking out the feral hog problems. Or look at what's happening to the wolf population since they've been reintroduced and protected. Whether you believe they are overpopulated now or not, it's quite obvious that the population is growing much faster than anyone expected and shows no sign of slowing. How do you suggest we deal with these situations if not by regulated hunting? Do you believe that, left unchecked, the feral hogs will stop spreading and being a highly destructive force wherever they go, or the wolf will stop multiplying and seeking out new territory before they clash catastrophically with civilization?
It's funny that you would bring up the wolf when hunting was the cause of their near extinction in the past. Far more humans have been killed by bee stings than wolves. They generally try to avoid people. The wolf has been part of the natural balance for thousands of years, in less than 100 years man through ignorance and misinformation has almost made wolves disappear forever. The wolf population can only grow as much as it's food source allows.

When it comes to feral hogs, separating fact from fiction is becoming a little easier as research reveals more about them. Exaggerated claims of feral hog population growth rates are a myth, the numbers have no research basis. There wouldn't even be an issue with feral hogs if they weren't purposely released into the wild by game ranches and related breeding facilities. There was no wild hog problem before large numbers of ranches began selling wild hog hunts.

“FED UP WITH TOPIX”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#35 Aug 20, 2011
hiss of death wrote:
<quoted text>Your links are ALL admitted theories and not proof of anything. Fact is, hunter gatherer cultures have existed for hundreds of thousands of years.
And of course man was occasionally prey. So is/was every creature that has ever existed on this planet, even if their predators were a virus.
What do you think the "man as predator" THEORY is?? Where are your links of "proof"? Science is always uncovering new evidence. It is evident biologically that we are not predatory animals. We don't have teeth like natural predators, no claws, we are slow, we are weak, I can go on. If you ever encountered a lion, tiger, or grizzly in the wild, what would your first reaction be? To run right? Exactly. Mankind, and pre-man before him for tens if not hundreds of millions of years evolved as a fear-flight, primarily opportunistic foraging and scavenging animal. Man has never had an ounce of predatory instinct in his genes. His relentlessness and cunning led to a unique sort of brain development from countless millennia of successful foraging and scavenging. It’s that simple really.

“HUNTING RIGHTS ADVOCATE”

Since: Oct 08

Boggy Creek

#36 Aug 20, 2011
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
It's funny that you would bring up the wolf when hunting was the cause of their near extinction in the past. Far more humans have been killed by bee stings than wolves. They generally try to avoid people. The wolf has been part of the natural balance for thousands of years, in less than 100 years man through ignorance and misinformation has almost made wolves disappear forever. The wolf population can only grow as much as it's food source allows.
When it comes to feral hogs, separating fact from fiction is becoming a little easier as research reveals more about them. Exaggerated claims of feral hog population growth rates are a myth, the numbers have no research basis. There wouldn't even be an issue with feral hogs if they weren't purposely released into the wild by game ranches and related breeding facilities. There was no wild hog problem before large numbers of ranches began selling wild hog hunts.
I think you're viewing the issue through rose colored glasses. I agree with everything you said about the wolf except the part about growth. The problem there is the fact that humans are a food source via garbage, stored foods, livestock & pets, and of course the occasional person. I told you before that I don't hunt predators, on the other hand, I'm not going to sacrifice my pets, livestock etc. I call that clash with civilization catastrophic because I believe it will be for the wolf. I'd rather not see that happen. If they are allowed to expand unchecked they will eventually encroach on civilization, it's only a matter of time.

Feral hogs, I don't really care how they got there, the question is; what do we do now? I don't think you understand the nature of this species. They are prolific breeders with large litters. They are extremely adaptable to climate and diet (they are omnivorous). They are destructive to habitat and indigenous species as well as agriculture. How can that not become a problem if left unchecked?

“FED UP WITH TOPIX”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#37 Aug 20, 2011
Squach wrote:
<quoted text>I think you're viewing the issue through rose colored glasses. I agree with everything you said about the wolf except the part about growth. The problem there is the fact that humans are a food source via garbage, stored foods, livestock & pets, and of course the occasional person. I told you before that I don't hunt predators, on the other hand, I'm not going to sacrifice my pets, livestock etc. I call that clash with civilization catastrophic because I believe it will be for the wolf. I'd rather not see that happen. If they are allowed to expand unchecked they will eventually encroach on civilization, it's only a matter of time.
Feral hogs, I don't really care how they got there, the question is; what do we do now? I don't think you understand the nature of this species. They are prolific breeders with large litters. They are extremely adaptable to climate and diet (they are omnivorous). They are destructive to habitat and indigenous species as well as agriculture. How can that not become a problem if left unchecked?
Hunting alone will not stop feral hogs from breeding, you have to attack the problem at it's source, shut down the game ranches. As for wolves I believe that civilization can co-exist with them. I live in coyote country, and there are certain preventative methods I use in order to keep myself, and pets safe. Of all the years I've lived here though I've only spotted a coyote a few times. A friend of mine has lived in rural Montana her whole life and has never once seen a wolf.

“Bowhunting Is Euphoric”

Since: Jan 09

Double Lung em

#38 Aug 20, 2011
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you think the "man as predator" THEORY is?? Where are your links of "proof"? Science is always uncovering new evidence.
Beyond the many cave drawings of hunting that exist yes, scientific eviedencece supports "man the hunter"...

http://www.afrik-news.com/article18170.html

http://www.afrik-news.com/article18170.html
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
It is evident biologically that we are not predatory animals. We don't have teeth like natural predators, no claws, we are slow, we are weak, I can go on.
Please do, your assertions only become increasingly more ludicrous. My links prove you wrong... again.
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
Man has never had an ounce of predatory instinct in his genes. His relentlessness and cunning led to a unique sort of brain development from countless millennia of successful foraging and scavenging. It’s that simple really.
It also led to group hunting efforts but I have no doubt your penchant for denial comforts you no end.

Since: Jan 09

KEEP OUT

#39 Aug 22, 2011
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
Human beings are not natural predators, scientific evidence has proved that. And are you able to have a discussion without the sh*t flinging? or is an intellectual debate too much for you to handle?
Scientific evidence has "proved that"?
So, you'll be showing us where it has been PROVEN that there was a great vegetarian period in human societal evolution?
How long ago was this?
Was it a world wide diet choice as meat has been?
What else would you like to claim has been "proved"? Aliens among us?

Since: Jan 09

KEEP OUT

#40 Aug 22, 2011
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
When it comes to feral hogs, separating fact from fiction is becoming a little easier as research reveals more about them. Exaggerated claims of feral hog population growth rates are a myth, the numbers have no research basis.
No "myth" Lippy. It's quite real. Have you ever seen first hand the damage that hogs can do to habitat that other creatures rely on?
Why do you think it's open season on hogs here?
We kill them all year around here. Keeps me supplied in sausage and helps preserve my land.:)
Sounds like you would be happy to let them destroy all the habitat for all the other creatures as long as I wasn't eating them.

Since: Jan 09

KEEP OUT

#41 Aug 22, 2011
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
Hunting alone will not stop feral hogs from breeding, you have to attack the problem at it's source, shut down the game ranches.
You really don't have a clue. Nobody is breeding hogs and setting them loose to hunt. They are already everywhere and what you imply is already illegal. Of course you and craigy could care less about laws, huh.

Since: Jan 09

KEEP OUT

#42 Aug 22, 2011
LiddySays wrote:
<quoted text>
Hunting alone will not stop feral hogs from breeding,
You're right. We trap them as well.

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