Are Spaniards white ?

[sand_cracker]

Too Much wrote:

<quoted text>
Do you really believe that the average topix poster, that is the trollic ghetto ignorant type, knows what an autosomal genetic test is about? Your faith on humanity is laudable.

You underestimate the trolls. Some of us receive such a great pleasure from trolling, that we're even willing to learn something, if only to troll better.

[KIR]

Too Much wrote:

<quoted text>
Do you really believe that the average topix poster, that is the trollic ghetto ignorant type, knows what an autosomal genetic test is about? Your faith on humanity is laudable.

lol Touche!:)

In reply to your other post NA admixture could be from paleolithic and neolithic settlers,but it also could be from more recent contact via the Moors, Phoenicians, and Carthaginians. Yes the Iberians expelled them along with the Jews, but it's possible it's culmination of the two. My primary point is that its confirmed through snp testing that Iberians share more genetic admixture with Atlantic Europe (NW Europe) than they do with North Africa. Also it's important to note North African Berbers have their own genetic markers which distinguish them from sub-Saharan Africans, just as frequencies in alleles can further distinguish between west and east Africans, albeit the latter two are considered SSAF. I think I've read a few bs posts on that topic so I thought it best to clarify.

[KIR]

sand_cracker wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not a specialist in this area, but isn't the N Y-DNA haplogroup defined by a SNP and not by a microsatellite variation? And AFAIK, the autosomal markers are not immune to founder effects and genetic drift.

I'm not a specialist either. I just read a lot. lol Also I'm involved with an active genetic research community and participate in various dna projects. But as I said, I'm no expert.

To answer your question, absolutely! But that's why it is important to analyze dna results of multiple people from an ethnic group, compare them to other populations and then look for trends. DNA evidence should corroborate and jive with historical record. That is the best way to use this data.

[Jeff]

sand_cracker wrote:

<quoted text>
Why wouldn't the Turks mix, if there were sizable Muslim populations among the locals? This doesn't make sense at all. And no, Balkan peoples don't look like Turks, it's exactly the other way around. The Turks, especially in the European part and Western Anatolia, tend to look like the Balkan peoples. The truth is that there were massive relocations of populations as well as great deal of mixing during all the five centuries of Ottoman rule over SE Europe. Also, the "Turks" who conquered SE Europe were in fact native Anatolians, already closely related to the Balkanians, to begin with.

Exactly. If we look at the admixture of this study Turkey shows to be 69% European, 24% Near Eastern, 2.6% South Asian, 1% East Asian, and 2.6% North Asian.
http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-...

[dragonpat]

spaniards have a large amount of african blood and that is it. does not matter about the DNA test you posted on here or whether you like it or not. it is IMPOSSIBLE for spaniards to not have african blood after being conquered by the MOORS for 800 years!!!

no one is trying to claim them; they have large amounts of african blood; period.

anyway, spanish is NOT a race.

bye.

[Tom]

dragonpat wrote:

spaniards have a large amount of african blood and that is it. does not matter about the DNA test you posted on here or whether you like it or not. it is IMPOSSIBLE for spaniards to not have african blood after being conquered by the MOORS for 800 years!!!
no one is trying to claim them; they have large amounts of african blood; period.
anyway, spanish is NOT a race.
bye.

Obviously it is not impossible for Spaniards to not have a huge amount of African blood since study after study shows them to be predominately of European blood with little to no African blood and your personal opinion won't change this fact.

[Too Much]

dragonpat wrote:

spaniards have a large amount of african blood and that is it.

Nope, we have not.That isnt it. You mistake well proven facts for your own bigoted and biased desires.

dragonpat wrote:

does not matter about the DNA test you posted on here or whether you like it or not.

Yes it matters A LOT, because it is what science has to say about this matter, and I tend to give much more credit to scientists than to racist mountebanks like you, whether you like it or not.

dragonpat wrote:

it is IMPOSSIBLE for spaniards to not have african blood after being conquered by the MOORS for 800 years!!!

Nope, it is not impossible. It is in fact a well known and proven fact, because the moors were MINORITY RULING ELITES THAT DIDNT MIX WITH THE NATIVES, Just as the british were a minority ruling elite in India for centuries and I dont see anybody claiming that the Indians are mixed with the british, and they and their families were expelled afterwards, oh and they stayed at the south of Spain for around 500 years only in Granada they stayed longer. You have an understanding or reading problem, perhaps both, because this has been already explained here, but dont worry, this is usually the case with racist people with agendas like you. Again you mistake facts for personal opinions.

dragonpat wrote:

no one is trying to claim them; they have large amounts of african blood; period.
anyway, spanish is NOT a race.
bye.

Again you talk on behalf of others, only God knows why... Nooooooooope, my stubborn and racist friend, we spaniards dont have any significant ammount of african blood. YOU MISTAKE PERSONAL OPINIONS FOR FACTS. P.E.R.I.O.D.

[Tom]

Spaniards DNA is predominant Euorpeans. Study after study has shown this.

[Too Much]

As a spaniard I feel very proud that everybody else wants us spaniards to be like them, I mean, blacks wish we spaniards had african blood, arabs wish we spaniards had arabic blood, moors wish we spaniards had moorish blood, jews wish we spaniards had jewish blood, and so on... If Spain wasnt an important and influential european country like it is with thousand year old traditions that have shaped for ever our understanding of the european culture I am sure nobody would be willing to steal our history. The stronger their racial and inferiority complex, the harder they wish that spaniards were part of their culture. Sorry people but we spaniards are just like we are, not like you wish we were, and nothing will change that whether you like it or not.

[Too Much]

Matthew_1 wrote:

<quoted text>
Spain? Most american blacks havent traveled outside their ghetto, much less to Spain.
Thats why when i hear some moron saying "The vikings were black" "Italians are black" i laugh in their face

oh, and that is nothing compared with many other clueless black ghetto people claiming that ancient greeks were black, that ancient persians were black, that ancient egyptians were black, that southern europeans are nothing more than mulattoes and that should explain why they have darker complexions than scandinavians and so on... According to these afroignorants all relevant civilizations that the world has known are indeed black, oh and of course this people that dont even know what a books is for beyond decorating shelves know all this better than all scientists, geneticists and anthropologists together. Wooohaaa!.

[bernard28]

Jahx wrote:

It is interesting how the Spaniards have afraid to say they have a genetic heritage from any part of Africa.

It is a pretty common phenomenon in the bordering countries of the south that historically were invaded over and over by extra-european people since the early times of the Neolithic Age. Greeks, Balkanites and Bulgars don't want to say they have turko-anatolian genetic heritage and Italians and Iberian don't want to say that they have maghrebo-subsaharan genetic heritage.

[El Sangano Manganzon]

Why not just humbly admit that Spaniards are black and be done with the thread?

[bernard28]

Jahx wrote:

Tribe is not civilization, just as the Germanic TRIBES that destroyed the Western Roman Empire were not civilizations.

Yet subsaharan Africa was always essentially made out of tribes who endlessly kill off each others in a neverending cycle of tribal feuds, that isn't civilisation either.

By the time Rome was taken down like the rabid dog that it was, it was already a weakened and lazy state filled and controlled by a complecent and decadent mixed race lot that came from Africa and West Asia, it's destruction was only natural and it's the best thing that could happen for the preservation of white homogeneity.

Hermann (Arminius) and the Ostrogoths are the biggest heroes of white people!

[Jahx]

Moors weren't totally expelled from Spain. Inquisition and Christian Reconquest forced them to
accept the Catholic religion for them. Thus, these new Christian soon adapted to the Spanish society being assimilated over the centuries.

That's why Spanish actors like Javier Bardem, Antonio Banderas[brown skinned] and Penelope Cruz physically differ so much to actors with northern European ancestry such as Brad Pitt, Owen Wilson or Charlize Theron.

I've never seen a blond Spanish person...

[bernard28]

Jahx wrote:

Moors weren't totally expelled from Spain. Inquisition and Christian Reconquest forced them to
accept the Catholic religion for them. Thus, these new Christian soon adapted to the Spanish society being assimilated over the centuries.

Moors and jews were forcibly converted to christianity and assimilated, subsaharans from the trans-atlantic slave trade were also assimilated (mostly by the portugese, but also in some regions of Spain).

[bernard28]

Jahx wrote:

I've never seen a blond Spanish person...

The only blond spanish persons you'll ever see are of the perioxyde kind ;)

[John]

bernard28 wrote:

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The only blond spanish persons you'll ever see are of the perioxyde kind ;)

Nonsense. I've seen many Spaniards who are natural blondes.
http://www.google.com/url...

[Jeff]

Jahx wrote:

Moors weren't totally expelled from Spain. Inquisition and Christian Reconquest forced them to
accept the Catholic religion for them. Thus, these new Christian soon adapted to the Spanish society being assimilated over the centuries.
That's why Spanish actors like Javier Bardem, Antonio Banderas[brown skinned] and Penelope Cruz physically differ so much to actors with northern European ancestry such as Brad Pitt, Owen Wilson or Charlize Theron.
I've never seen a blond Spanish person...

Ehm, no that is NOT why Spanis actors like Javier Bardem, Antonio Banderas and Penelope Cruz physically differ from northern European. You people are just novices when it comes to genetics but like you know c rap when in reality you do not.

Skin pigmentations of olive skinned Euros is not necessarily due to darker migrants from Asia or Africa, influences from both of those regions are minuscular and they don't tell the whole story. Most of the various phenotypes seen within continental populations are due to genes and alleles they share among them that are specific to them. For Europeans, they carry specific genes and alleles that play roles in the various skin pigmentations seen across Europe. Several of those alleles fall within the various phenotypes is found in the SLC45A2(MATP) gene. Graf et al examined the association between normal skin color variation in several populations and found that within Europeans the SLC45A2(MATP) gene is associated with alleles that control both light and olive complexions as well as dark hair and eyes. These alleles are common among Europeans but NOT common among Asians or Africans, they are:-1721C-G (dbSNP rs13289),-1169G-A (dbSNP rs6867641), and a 3-bp duplication,-1174dupAAT. The alleles -1721C-G (dbSNP rs13289) and -1174dupAAT were shown to be in complete linkage with light skinned, dark hair and eyes in Europeans, while the -1721G,-1169A, and +dup alleles as well as 2 alleles, leu374 and lys272 were significantly associated with olive skin color, dark hair and eyes in Europeans. The PHe374Leu allele was shown to be higher among Europeans, i.e. Germans, Italians, French, etc., then Asian populations while it was absent from African populations. In other words those Southern Europeans that moronic novices in genetics run around and stupidly try to claim their phenotypes are the results of African or Asian admixture, ARE WRONG. Those phenotypes among Euros are due alleles -1721G,-1169A, and +dup alleles as well as 2 alleles, leu374 and lys272 that are COMMON among Euros but UNCOMMON among Africans and Asians.

"Results indicate that the allele frequencies of both polymorphisms are significantly different between population groups. The two alleles, 374Leu and 272Lys, are significantly associated with dark hair, skin, and eye color in Caucasians. The odds ratios (ORs) of the LeuLeu genotype for black hair and olive skin are 25.63 and 28.65, respectively, and for the LysLys genotype are 43.23 and 8.27, respectively. The OR for eye color is lower at 3.48 for the LeuLeu and 6.57 for LysLys genotypes. This is the first report of this highly significant association of MATP polymorphisms with normal human pigmentation variation"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15714523...

[Alfonso De La Vega]

John wrote:

<quoted text>
Nonsense. I've seen many Spaniards who are natural blondes.
http://www.google.com/url...

They just mindlessly mumble anything they feel will get a rise.
Doesn't matter how idiotic it is. When participating on this forum it's helpful to imagine the Anglos who are responding with the facial appearance of Mad Magazine's Alfred E. Newman and the AA who say idiotic things as having the same face and expression albeit with black skin.

[Jahx]

John wrote:

<quoted text>
Nonsense. I've seen many Spaniards who are natural blondes.

How could you prove they are natural blondies? Did you make any DNA test on them?

I'm saying this simply because research has been done in countries of northern European population and it was proven that the minority of blond Europeans are natural blonde[20% or less].

"""Bournemouth has the highest proportion of bottle blondes — only eight per cent of blondies in the southern seaside town are natural.

[...]

BRITAIN'S FAIR CITIES

CITY -% OF BLONDES (% NATURAL)

Manchester - 45%(18%)
Bournemouth - 43 (8)
Birmingham - 43 (21)
Newcastle - 40 (23)
London - 39 (19)
Brighton - 38 (25)
Cardiff - 36 (1)"""

Source: racialreality[dot]com

If even in Anglo-Saxon England most blondes are FAKE, we can imagine how many real blondes exist in former Moorish Spain...