------->African Origins of Ancient Eg...
trollslayer

Oak Lawn, IL

#145 May 7, 2014
Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. The Venus figurines occur in Europe when only one people had migrated in: Cro-Magnon, type I, sister clade to Mideastern J.
Type I was not only in Europe, but the northern Mideast, Iran and Siberia as well.
Says WHO??? you...lol.

I think most educated PPL. know the ORIGINS OF VENUS. Don't talk to without linked proof 'barros'
trollslayer

Oak Lawn, IL

#146 May 7, 2014
Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>
I cite valid scientific evidence and you call it lying? F U
The Aterians had disappeared from the Maghreb before it was populated by immigrants 30k bp. So Aterians have no part in the ancestry of people of the Maghreb.
The evidence is clear that Eurasians appeared in the Maghreb 30k bp. It is also clear that Africans arrived 20k bp. After 20k bp, the Maghreb was mixed, though always predominantly Eurasians. The % of African ancestry in the Maghreb has alway been a minority.
In Lower Egypt, Eurasians were present in predynastic times, but the evidence there shows that they were the minority, African ancestry predominating throughout.
Learn about the real evidence before babbling reactionary insecure self-hating nonsense. The Maghreb has been predominantly Eurasian for 30k years. Nothing you can do about it.
If that isn't true, then why haven't any Afrosupremacist pseudo-scholar in here posted the evidence for any site in the Maghreb which has no Eurasians in its DNA??? WHY???
WHY, oh WHY won't they post that evidence???
POST THE LINKS, LIARS!!!
AberdiTheOlodumare HAS POSTED LINKS. YOU haven't.
Insect Trust wrote:
The evidence is clear that Eurasians appeared in the Maghreb 30k bp
what evidence.????what evidence.????what evidence.????

are you fool enuff to think that just because YOU say "the evidence is clear" that there is evidence WITHOUT YOU SHOWING STUDIES, LINKS OR A AUTHORITY FIGURE.

____

To My non-troll friends.....this troll 'barros' will NOT provide links. but never stop demanding them from him.

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#147 May 7, 2014
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
AberdiTheOlodumare HAS POSTED LINKS. YOU haven't.
<quoted text>
what evidence.????what evidence.????what evidence.????
are you fool enuff to think that just because YOU say "the evidence is clear" that there is evidence WITHOUT YOU SHOWING STUDIES, LINKS OR A AUTHORITY FIGURE.
____
To My non-troll friends.....this troll 'barros' will NOT provide links. but never stop demanding them from him.
You lying afrosupremacist racists are lacking in links, fool.

Do not even mention this topic until you have provided links to genetic information from any Maghreb site showing no Eurasian presence.

You have substantiated NOTHING.

PROVE there were no Eurasians there... show us the genetic analyses for the Maghreb... LOL!!!

And we all know that such studies exist and every one shows Eurasian presence in the Maghreb!

You lose, racist liar.

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#148 May 7, 2014
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
Says WHO??? you...lol.
I think most educated PPL. know the ORIGINS OF VENUS. Don't talk to without linked proof 'barros'
These are well-known facts, liar.

It was Redefined claiming that we could trace Europeans by means of the Venus figurines. This of course is not true.

Human origins are traced with DNA. That's why you afrosupremacist liars fail to post any DNA analyses of Maghreb sites.

And it is well known that Y-type I is in Siberia, Iran and Europe. Amazing that you are so ignorant of anthropology.

Liar.
trollslayer

Oak Lawn, IL

#149 May 7, 2014
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
The Europeans & Siberians who shared the Venus figurine culture. What I need to look for is the origins of the Venus figurine culture. This will reveal the ancestors of these PPL.
"Redefined"...the link below will give you a start on the origins of Venus. You will have to
read between the lines with this link below. Do note Piette was attacked for his views. They
later tried to sweep his theories "under the rug". By the way, never forget where man originated.

"In addition to this anatomical connection with the peoples of Africa, Piette also saw the figurines as similar in appearance to Egyptian dolls (White 2006:273) or “uncontestably Egyptian in nature”(Piette qtd in White 2006 275) He found the “racial differences within the collection of figurines and the resemblance of some of them to African populations”

https://www.google.com/url...
trollslayer

Oak Lawn, IL

#150 May 7, 2014
Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>
You lying afrosupremacist racists are lacking in links, fool.
Do not even mention this topic until you have provided links to genetic information from any Maghreb site showing no Eurasian presence.
You have substantiated NOTHING.
PROVE there were no Eurasians there... show us the genetic analyses for the Maghreb... LOL!!!
And we all know that such studies exist and every one shows Eurasian presence in the Maghreb!
You lose, racist liar.
EUROCENTRIC MYTHBUSTERS! Maghreb Eurasian for 30k yrs?
http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/TTJDT5MTO95SI...

now where's your linked data. stop talking to me without a link to view.
trollslayer

Oak Lawn, IL

#151 May 7, 2014
'There were people in the Maghreb well before 30k years...100k years to be precise..During that time Eurasia wasn't even POPULATED!'
__
"Last year, while a Penn team of archaeologists, led by Harold Dibble, was working in Morocco,members uncovered a treasure beyond anything they'd imagined - a skeleton of a child from 108,000 years ago.

They don't know what killed him at about age 8, but his remains are believed to be one of the most complete ever found of this period.

The skeleton promises to open a window into a pivotal time in human evolution when Neanderthals still ruled Europe, and Africans were inventing art and symbolic thought.

One of Dibble's students was the first to notice a piece of bone the size of a quarter, said Dibble, who is a curator at the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology. To everyone's surprise, the bone was part of a remarkably complete skull and upper body of a child that died 108,000 years ago, as shown by various dating techniques.

The work was funded by National Geographic, whose cable channel will present a special program based on the finding, titled The World's Oldest Child.

From analyzing the teeth, Dibble's team estimated he or she was 6 to 8 years old. Dibble bestowed the name Bouchra, meaning good news in Arabic. It's a feminine name, but he has since decided it's more likely to have been a boy.

In that earlier time, 108,000 years ago, modern Homo sapiens - people who looked like us - had emerged in Africa and begun to spread to the Middle East. Neanderthals populated parts of Eurasia. Africa was thought to be a patchwork of so-called modern Homo sapiens and somewhat different-looking "archaic humans."

http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/TTJDT5MTO95SI...

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#152 May 7, 2014
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
"Redefined"...the link below will give you a start on the origins of Venus. You will have to
read between the lines with this link below. Do note Piette was attacked for his views. They
later tried to sweep his theories "under the rug". By the way, never forget where man originated.
"In addition to this anatomical connection with the peoples of Africa, Piette also saw the figurines as similar in appearance to Egyptian dolls (White 2006:273) or “uncontestably Egyptian in nature”(Piette qtd in White 2006 275) He found the “racial differences within the collection of figurines and the resemblance of some of them to African populations”
https://www.google.com/url...
You are the definition of dolt.

And of what date are those Egyptian dolls? Do you have any idea when the European Venus figurines were created, fool?

There is NO connection of those figurines with Africa.

I like big butts and I cannot lie... LOL!!! Wow!· That proves it!
trollslayer

Oak Lawn, IL

#153 May 7, 2014
Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the definition of dolt.
And of what date are those Egyptian dolls? Do you have any idea when the European Venus figurines were created, fool?
There is NO connection of those figurines with Africa.
I like big butts and I cannot lie... LOL!!! Wow!· That proves it!
link it, i did. I provided a link now you do the some no games.
trollslayer

Oak Lawn, IL

#154 May 7, 2014
now you do the same no games.
trollslayer

Oak Lawn, IL

#155 May 7, 2014
trollslayer wrote:
'There were people in the Maghreb well before 30k years...100k years to be precise..During that time Eurasia wasn't even POPULATED!'
__
"Last year, while a Penn team of archaeologists, led by Harold Dibble, was working in Morocco,members uncovered a treasure beyond anything they'd imagined - a skeleton of a child from 108,000 years ago.
They don't know what killed him at about age 8, but his remains are believed to be one of the most complete ever found of this period.
The skeleton promises to open a window into a pivotal time in human evolution when Neanderthals still ruled Europe, and Africans were inventing art and symbolic thought.
One of Dibble's students was the first to notice a piece of bone the size of a quarter, said Dibble, who is a curator at the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology. To everyone's surprise, the bone was part of a remarkably complete skull and upper body of a child that died 108,000 years ago, as shown by various dating techniques.
The work was funded by National Geographic, whose cable channel will present a special program based on the finding, titled The World's Oldest Child.
From analyzing the teeth, Dibble's team estimated he or she was 6 to 8 years old. Dibble bestowed the name Bouchra, meaning good news in Arabic. It's a feminine name, but he has since decided it's more likely to have been a boy.
In that earlier time, 108,000 years ago, modern Homo sapiens - people who looked like us - had emerged in Africa and begun to spread to the Middle East. Neanderthals populated parts of Eurasia. Africa was thought to be a patchwork of so-called modern Homo sapiens and somewhat different-looking "archaic humans."
http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/TTJDT5MTO95SI...
bump

African child in N. African
http://archaeologybriefs.blogspot.com/2011/06...
trollslayer

Oak Lawn, IL

#156 May 7, 2014
" Please stop showing this info.'slayer ".....the trolls cry

WHEN EUROPEANS WERE SLAVES: RESEARCH SUGGESTS WHITE SLAVERY WAS MUCH MORE COMMON THAN PREVIOUSLY BELIEVED

http://www.google.com/url...

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#157 May 7, 2014
trollslayer wrote:
'There were people in the Maghreb well before 30k years...100k years to be precise..During that time Eurasia wasn't even POPULATED!'
__
"Last year, while a Penn team of archaeologists, led by Harold Dibble, was working in Morocco,members uncovered a treasure beyond anything they'd imagined - a skeleton of a child from 108,000 years ago.
They don't know what killed him at about age 8, but his remains are believed to be one of the most complete ever found of this period.
The skeleton promises to open a window into a pivotal time in human evolution when Neanderthals still ruled Europe, and Africans were inventing art and symbolic thought.
One of Dibble's students was the first to notice a piece of bone the size of a quarter, said Dibble, who is a curator at the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology. To everyone's surprise, the bone was part of a remarkably complete skull and upper body of a child that died 108,000 years ago, as shown by various dating techniques.
The work was funded by National Geographic, whose cable channel will present a special program based on the finding, titled The World's Oldest Child.
From analyzing the teeth, Dibble's team estimated he or she was 6 to 8 years old. Dibble bestowed the name Bouchra, meaning good news in Arabic. It's a feminine name, but he has since decided it's more likely to have been a boy.
In that earlier time, 108,000 years ago, modern Homo sapiens - people who looked like us - had emerged in Africa and begun to spread to the Middle East. Neanderthals populated parts of Eurasia. Africa was thought to be a patchwork of so-called modern Homo sapiens and somewhat different-looking "archaic humans."
http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/TTJDT5MTO95SI...
Those people are irrelevant to the Maghreb population of the last 30k years. If you knew the material, you'd know that the Aterian population had disappeared millenia before the first Eurasians arrived 30k bp.

108k bp, those were all early types, represented today by Lo and L1 mtDNA.

The people of that date in the Levant also disappeared. They were not still there when the OOA migrants arrived. And they put the lie to your assertion that humans were not in Eurasia at that time. There is also a known presence from 125k bp of Africans in Arabia. They also were not there when the OOA people arrived, unless the OOA people evolved from them in Arabia, which is possible but unproven.

The fact is that the earlier African-originated populations of the Maghreb and Mideast were GONE when the Eurasians arrived.

Look up the links and post them. Who was there? I want to see DNA.

POST THOSE LINKS!

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#158 May 7, 2014
trollslayer wrote:
" Please stop showing this info.'slayer ".....the trolls cry
WHEN EUROPEANS WERE SLAVES: RESEARCH SUGGESTS WHITE SLAVERY WAS MUCH MORE COMMON THAN PREVIOUSLY BELIEVED
http://www.google.com/url...
The information about slavery perpetrated against Euros should be better taught and understood. Patriarchal imperialism has damaged all peoples. Europeans suffered the same violence and oppression as Africans, Native Americans and others did at the hands of Moslem and European imperialists in recent centuries.

A better understanding of this history would increase the consciousness of the population generally about the need to resist oppression. Instead, the system want the whites to believe they're in charge (lol), and wants non-white to hate them for it. divide and conquer.

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#159 May 7, 2014
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
link it, i did. I provided a link now you do the some no games.
Your link is irrelevant.

The relevant time period is 30k-present. Not 108k bp.

Show a link with genetic evidence for a Maghreb site over the last 30k years which has no Eurasian presence.

The fact is, they all have either 100% or predominantly Eurasian DNA.

Prove otherwise or move on to another topic on which I can thrash your racist ass.´´ñ
Almoravid

Rotterdam, Netherlands

#160 May 7, 2014
AberdiTheOlodumare wrote:
Great paper, I haven't seen it yet.

Here I have two great Egyptian Egyptologist.

Ahmed Saleh

https://twitter.com/AhmedSaleh1966

Mostafa Gadalla

http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/gadalla.html
Almoravid

Rotterdam, Netherlands

#161 May 7, 2014
Insect Trust wrote:
AE came from Nubia... well, that is true, but requires some explanation. They did not arrive from Nubia and then instantly create Egyptian civilization. They were in Upper Egypt for millenia, creating several Neolithic cultures before civilization arose.
The separation in time from Nubians had to have been considerable, as the cultures were quite different. And of course the term "Nubian" is a category, as there were a number of different cultures which arose in Nubia, along the Nile S of Egypt, before and after Egyptian civilization arose.
Mainstream archaeology does indeed provide the following facts, based on evidence:
1. Egyptian civilization arose in Upper Egypt on a mostly Badarian base, but with some input from Saharans who migrated in as the desert spread.
2. Those Upper Egyptians had cultural and biological affinities with Nubia.
3. Lower Egypt was not identical to Upper Egypt in human terms, and has a different origin story.
No, they did not arrive and built Egypt in an instance. Prior to that was thousands upon thousands of years of cultivation.

Prior to that we had Kerma, and Naqada 1, 2 and 3. Prior to that there were other progenitors. We are talking going back at least 10 years before Egypt itself arose.

The Badarians were Sahara descendants. And lower Egypt is identical to upper remains. Only during modern times this has changed, due to admixture of the people in the Northern part.
There are minor differences at some sites, but this is explained as clear local (in situ) development.
Almoravid

Rotterdam, Netherlands

#162 May 7, 2014
Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>
I would love to see all archaeological and genetic data for Lower Egypt, especially predynastic.
We end up arguing over %'s, as I am NOT saying there were no Nubian-affiliated peoples in predynastic Lower Egypt, simply that there was a more substantial contribution from Eurasians (Berber, Mideastern, types) than in Upper Egypt, where such contribution was negligible in predynastic times. And there were cultural differences between Upper and Lower, due in part simply to the different ecological context, but also due to different origins.
Middle Eastern types are in anthropological means seen as cold adapted in body portions and limb ratio. Whereas ancient Egyptians were tropical in these aspects, both from the upper and lower Egypt.

The only "Berber" population in Egypt are the Siwa berbers.

Of course ancient Egyptians had contact with Middle Easterners, but their impact was more based on trade then anything else.

http://www.bu.edu/anep/011.gif
Almoravid

Rotterdam, Netherlands

#163 May 7, 2014
big mike M wrote:
This quote?
"Considering the possible explanations for the Y variation, the clinal patterns observed for mtDNA variants (Krings et al. 1999) become sujects of interest. This DNA is usually only inherited maternally. The mtDNA variants' distributions have been used to interpret the Nile valley as a zone of intergradation, created by the admixture populations of ditinct northern and southern origin having different haplotypes. Movement up and down the Nile corridor is the mechanism postulated to have produced the pattern (from the Mediterranean to the southern udan). The three military invasions have also been invoked to explain the mtDNA patterns (Krings et al 1999:1173). This is a less tenable explanation for these variants, since women were not soldiers in ancient Egypt and Nubia, and wives of soldiers would not likely have contributed to the gene pools of the conquered. The translocation of a lot of the population of the victorious parties is not attested.
However, the coalescence times for the slowly evolving northern and southernmost haplotypes by region should be considered (see Krings et al. 1999). These would seem to place the ancestor in the epoch of the less arid Sahara, in the early to pre-mid-holocene, when it was more populated or shortly after, when droughts were influential in causing emigration."
Where the heck does he mention Eurasians in Lower Egypt??? Also do you not read sources? The source that I posted about U6 implies that it MUTATED into African. Just like E-V13 MUTATED into being European. Both were LOOOOONG before pre-dynastic Egypt.
And I'm retreating? You're the one that hasn't posted any sources that countered the one I posted on page one.
And people 30k years didnt resemble Africans?
"Many human craniofacial dimensions are largely of neutral adaptive significance, and an analysis of their variation can serve as an indication of the extent to which any given population is genetically related to or differs from any other. When 24 craniofacial measurements of a series of human populations are used to generate neighbor-joining dendrograms, it is no surprise that all modern European groups, ranging all of the way from Scandinavia to eastern Europe and throughout the Mediterranean to the Middle East, show that they are closely related to each other. The surprise is that the Neolithic peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age successors are NOT CLOSELY RELATED to the MODERN inhabitants, although the prehistoric/modern ties are somewhat more apparent in southern Europe. It is a further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic Natufian of Israel from whom the Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has a CLEAR LINK to Sub-Saharan Africa. Basques and Canary Islanders are clearly associated with modern Europeans. When canonical variates are plotted, NEITHER sample ties in with Cro-Magnon as was once suggested. The data treated here support the idea that the Neolithic moved out of the Near East into the circum-Mediterranean areas and Europe by a process of demic diffusion but that subsequently the in situ residents of those areas, derived from the Late Pleistocene inhabitants, absorbed both the agricultural life way and the people who had brought it."
Source:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1...
Still waiting for my claims to be refuted by your sources.
Also are you hinting that L3 is Eurasian type? I hope not.
Now I'm gonna wait for you to post your sources. Since you're saying I'm just "throwing things out."
Quite a lot has changed in formulation certain haplo types.

Indeed at one point in time L3 was called Eurasian.

As we know better now, trough new and better techniques.

Thus, we now know that other haplotypes arose on Africa as well, prior to what was beloved before.

May I remind you that at one point in time they claimed that Hg E was Eurasian as well. Etc...
Almoravid

Rotterdam, Netherlands

#165 May 7, 2014
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
Cro-Magnon did NOT resemble modern Europeans either. The earliest Europeans carried the African gene for skin color.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrodgers/2014/...
Excellent post.

Another shocking revelation:

Quote:
New research shows that people with blue eyes have a single, common ancestor. Scientists have tracked down a genetic mutation which took place 6,000-10,000 years ago and is the cause of the eye color of all blue-eyed humans alive on the planet today.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/...

These alleles are as fixed and unfixed in Africans.

http://www.lipstickalley.com/gallery/data/500...

http://www.author-me.com/images/clip_image004...

http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S...

Quote:
Although the level of resolution of the MSY tree has been significantly increased in the last decade, its basal backbone has remained substantially unchanged. The first branching in the MSY tree has been reported to be the one that separates the African-specific clade A (called clade I in 10) from clade BT (clade II-X in 10), whereas the second branching determines the subdivision of BT in clades B, mostly African, and CT, which comprises the majority of African and all non-African chromosomes.13 and 14 This branching pattern, along with the geographical distribution of the major clades A, B, and CT, has been interpreted as supporting an African origin for anatomically modern humans,10 with Khoisan from south Africa and Ethiopians from east Africa sharing the deepest lineages of the phylogeny.15 and 16

The deepest branching separates A1b from a monophyletic clade whose members (A1a, A2, A3, B, C, and R) all share seven mutually reinforcing derived mutations (five transitions and two transversions, all at non-CpG sites). To retain the information from the reference MSY tree13 as much as possible, we named this clade A1a-T (Figure 1). Within A1a-T, the transversion V221 separates A1a from a monophyletic clade (called A2-T) consisting of three branches: A2, A3, and BT, the latter being supported by ten mutations (Figure 1).

The deepest branching separates A1b from a monophyletic clade whose members (A1a, A2, A3, B, C, and R) all share seven mutually reinforcing derived mutations (five transitions and two transversions, all at non-CpG sites). To retain the information from the reference MSY tree13 as much as possible, we named this clade A1a-T (Figure 1). Within A1a-T, the transversion V221 separates A1a from a monophyletic clade (called A2-T) consisting of three branches: A2, A3, and BT, the latter being supported by ten mutations (Figure 1).
--Fulvio Cruciani et al
A Revised Root for the Human Y Chromosomal Phylogenetic Tree: The Origin of Patrilineal Diversity in Africa

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/...

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