------->African Origins of Ancient Eg...

------->African Origins of Ancient Egyptians recognized by mainstream egyptology

Posted in the African-American Forum

First Prev
of 25
Next Last

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#1 Apr 26, 2014

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#2 Apr 26, 2014
To add to that, again using mainstream egyptology source, it seems even Lower Egyptians before the first dynasty (before Upper Egyptians took over to unify Ancient Egypt and establish the AEian state) cluster more with Africans than with West Asians or Europeans:

Moving to the opposite geographical extremity, the very small sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be [b]significantly different[/b] from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline of variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine.73 The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites [b]group them with Africans[/b] rather than with Europeans.
- from Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilisation (Kemp, 2005, p.54)

“Try harder :)”

Level 8

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#3 Apr 26, 2014
You're Amun-Ra The Ultimate from ES arent you?

Anyways good job posting this here. Basically confirms(along with many other studies) that the Ancient Egyptians came from the Nubian "area."

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#4 Apr 26, 2014
AE came from Nubia... well, that is true, but requires some explanation. They did not arrive from Nubia and then instantly create Egyptian civilization. They were in Upper Egypt for millenia, creating several Neolithic cultures before civilization arose.

The separation in time from Nubians had to have been considerable, as the cultures were quite different. And of course the term "Nubian" is a category, as there were a number of different cultures which arose in Nubia, along the Nile S of Egypt, before and after Egyptian civilization arose.

Mainstream archaeology does indeed provide the following facts, based on evidence:
1. Egyptian civilization arose in Upper Egypt on a mostly Badarian base, but with some input from Saharans who migrated in as the desert spread.
2. Those Upper Egyptians had cultural and biological affinities with Nubia.
3. Lower Egypt was not identical to Upper Egypt in human terms, and has a different origin story.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#5 Apr 26, 2014
Insect Trust is mostly right about the first 2 points but he's not right about the third. While there's not a lot of humain remains from ower egypt in predynastic time. The remain there was cluster more with other upper egyptians and Africans than with West Asian (Palestine, Syria, etc) and European. I just already posted a source about it above. I will also post another study about it (the biological continuity along the Sudanese and Egyptian Nile Valley, and surrounding deserts) later on.:

Moving to the opposite geographical extremity, the very small sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline of variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine.73 The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans.-
- From Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilisation (Kemp, 2005, p.54)

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#6 Apr 26, 2014
AberdiTheOlodumare wrote:
Insect Trust is mostly right about the first 2 points but he's not right about the third. While there's not a lot of humain remains from ower egypt in predynastic time. The remain there was cluster more with other upper egyptians and Africans than with West Asian (Palestine, Syria, etc) and European. I just already posted a source about it above. I will also post another study about it (the biological continuity along the Sudanese and Egyptian Nile Valley, and surrounding deserts) later on.:
<quoted text>
- From Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilisation (Kemp, 2005, p.54)
I would love to see all archaeological and genetic data for Lower Egypt, especially predynastic.

We end up arguing over %'s, as I am NOT saying there were no Nubian-affiliated peoples in predynastic Lower Egypt, simply that there was a more substantial contribution from Eurasians (Berber, Mideastern, types) than in Upper Egypt, where such contribution was negligible in predynastic times. And there were cultural differences between Upper and Lower, due in part simply to the different ecological context, but also due to different origins.

“Try harder :)”

Level 8

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#7 Apr 26, 2014
AberdiTheOlodumare wrote:
Insect Trust is mostly right about the first 2 points but he's not right about the third. While there's not a lot of humain remains from ower egypt in predynastic time. The remain there was cluster more with other upper egyptians and Africans than with West Asian (Palestine, Syria, etc) and European. I just already posted a source about it above. I will also post another study about it (the biological continuity along the Sudanese and Egyptian Nile Valley, and surrounding deserts) later on.:
<quoted text>
- From Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilisation (Kemp, 2005, p.54)
Yeah I was about to agree with him until he said that.

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#8 Apr 26, 2014
big mike M wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah I was about to agree with him until he said that.
Well, let's figure it out. Were there any people from Eurasia in Lower Egypt in predynastic times? What does the evidence say? And what are the cultural differences between predynastic Lower and Upper Egypt and to what might we ascribe them?

Was Lower Egypt 100% Nubian? I find that hard to believe.

Take the Natufians... also of Nubian origin, were spread along the coasts of modern Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, Syria and Turkey. Over time they were increasingly mixed with Mideasterners (type J), until finally about 12k bp, the Natufians disappear as a distinct people or culture.

Are we to believe that all that mixing occurred in all of their range EXCEPT Egypt? That the Natufians of Lower Egypt had NO contact of any sort with those of Israel, etc.?

You can see why one would surmise just knowing some basic history and prehistory that there were non-Nubians in Lower Egypt. But... I want to see solid genetic/archaeological proof one way or the other.
African AE

Cape Town, South Africa

#9 Apr 26, 2014
Insect Trust wrote:
AE came from Nubia... well, that is true, but requires some explanation. They did not arrive from Nubia and then instantly create Egyptian civilization. They were in Upper Egypt for millenia, creating several Neolithic cultures before civilization arose.
The separation in time from Nubians had to have been considerable, as the cultures were quite different. And of course the term "Nubian" is a category, as there were a number of different cultures which arose in Nubia, along the Nile S of Egypt, before and after Egyptian civilization arose.
Mainstream archaeology does indeed provide the following facts, based on evidence:
1. Egyptian civilization arose in Upper Egypt on a mostly Badarian base, but with some input from Saharans who migrated in as the desert spread.
2. Those Upper Egyptians had cultural and biological affinities with Nubia.
3. Lower Egypt was not identical to Upper Egypt in human terms, and has a different origin story.
Neolithic Farmers CAME FROM THE MIDDLE EAST about 5000-4200BC! THE MERIMDE CULTURE HAD TIES TO THE MIDDLE EAST!
The Neolithic Middle Eastern Farmers also went to ARABIA and EUROPE!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_E...

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#10 Apr 26, 2014
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>Neolithic Farmers CAME FROM THE MIDDLE EAST about 5000-4200BC! THE MERIMDE CULTURE HAD TIES TO THE MIDDLE EAST!
The Neolithic Middle Eastern Farmers also went to ARABIA and EUROPE!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_E...
The Mideastern Neolithic spread to Europe, Egypt and India, among other places. It has long been wondered whether that movement entailed demic diffusion (movement of people) or simply cultural diffusion (passing cultural traits like farming from one people to another but without the originators migrating into the receiving areas).

What I've seen is that much of Neolithic culture went to India along with people of L type, identified today with Dravidians. For Europe also, there was movement of Neolithic people from Anatolia, carrying mostly Y-types J, G and E.

But for Upper Egypt, the remains of Neolithic peoples such as the Badarians do not show such admixture as occurred in India and Europe. I argue that some such demic diffusion did occur into Lower Egypt, where the Neolithic immigrants mixed with the Nubian-originated indigenous population, but there is little to no evidence for demic diffusion into Upper Egypt.

“Try harder :)”

Level 8

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#11 Apr 26, 2014
I don't know why people hang onto this dynastic race theory when its been thrown out the window by Egyptologist of today.

First off Lower Egypt during Pre-Dynastic period was sparsely populated...

Not only is the earliest evidence of settlement in the Delta in the southwest part near the Faiyum, not to mention that the sepati (nomes) of Lower Egypt are numbered from south to north and west to east as shown here:
http://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/nomeslower.ht...

But that there is NO physical evidence of any population of Asiatics in the Delta during predynastic times.

The skeletal data shows as much:

"..sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine. The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans."
Barry Kemp, Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation.(2005) Routledge.

Even the material culture is African in nature and not Asiatic.

"The initial movements westwards across the Sahara and, almost a millennium later, are likely to have been caused by the succession of drought episodes at 7600, 6800-6500, 6100, 5800, and 5500-5400 cal BC (8.6, 7.9-7.7, 7.26, 7, 6.6-6.5 kyr bp)…"-- Fekri Hassan, Droughts, Food, and Culture: Ecological Change and Food Security in Africa’s Prehistory

"..the early cultures of Merimde, the Fayum, Badari Naqada I and II are essentially African and early African social customs and religious beliefs were the root and foundation of the ancient Egyptian way of life." Shaw, Thurston (1976) Changes in African Archaeology in the Last Forty Years in African Studies since 1945

Even archaeologist Barbara Barich in her work Archaeology and Environment in the Libyan Sahara commented on similarities between Capsian culture farther west in Libya and the neolithic cultures of Egyptian oases like the Fayum such as oval shaped reed huts, the hearths and storage pits, and even the bodies interred in the homes. Fekri Hassan cites other material evidence like ground axes, tabular flint tools, lens-shaped bifacial arrowheads, concave-based arrowheads, ostrich shells, amazonite beads, and bone points.

Really the only thing tying Delta folk to Asia is trade goods and domesticates (both plant and animal). European fixate on the latter as their proof of Asiatic presence yet despite the Asian wheat and livestock, interestingly all the terms used for these organisms are native Egyptian and NON are non-Egyptian or Semitic. One would think that if a population of immigrants settled in Egypt bringing in their domestic goods that are foreign to the new land they would at least preserve their vocabulary for them!

People STOP trying to revive the Dynastic Race theory. Again its been thrown out the window.

Always had this same argument with Barros Serranos and it never turned out good for him...

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#12 Apr 26, 2014
We must note also that the idea that Africa had no farming before the diffusion of the Mideastern Neolithic via Egypt is false. While Upper Egypt did adopt a number of Mideastern Neolithic crops and technological traits, plant domestication had already occurred in a band stretching from Senegal to Ethiopia. I think without looking up the articles that the earliest domestication known on earth was 18k bp in Senegal. Something like that.

So were the Upper Egyptians doing any farming before the Mideastern Neolithic arrived? Well, the earlier Natufians, related to the Egyptians (and to all Nubian-derived peoples), had had a sort of proto-agriculture in their grain-gathering culture which did not domesticate but did gather, store and process grain. I've not yet seen the evidence, but wouldn't be surprised to find that in pre-Neolithic Upper Egypt there were proto or early farming practices which had diffused northward from Ethiopia or along the Sahel to Nubia and thence to Egypt.

The same is true in India, since a wide band of domestication extended from tropical India through SE Asia, so that Indians were likely farming at least a few crops before the Mideastern Neolithic was brought in by proto-Dravidian speakers.

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#13 Apr 26, 2014
big mike M wrote:
I don't know why people hang onto this dynastic race theory when its been thrown out the window by Egyptologist of today.
First off Lower Egypt during Pre-Dynastic period was sparsely populated...
Not only is the earliest evidence of settlement in the Delta in the southwest part near the Faiyum, not to mention that the sepati (nomes) of Lower Egypt are numbered from south to north and west to east as shown here:
http://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/nomeslower.ht...
But that there is NO physical evidence of any population of Asiatics in the Delta during predynastic times.
The skeletal data shows as much:
"..sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine. The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans."
Barry Kemp, Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation.(2005) Routledge.
Even the material culture is African in nature and not Asiatic.
"The initial movements westwards across the Sahara and, almost a millennium later, are likely to have been caused by the succession of drought episodes at 7600, 6800-6500, 6100, 5800, and 5500-5400 cal BC (8.6, 7.9-7.7, 7.26, 7, 6.6-6.5 kyr bp)…"-- Fekri Hassan, Droughts, Food, and Culture: Ecological Change and Food Security in Africa’s Prehistory
"..the early cultures of Merimde, the Fayum, Badari Naqada I and II are essentially African and early African social customs and religious beliefs were the root and foundation of the ancient Egyptian way of life." Shaw, Thurston (1976) Changes in African Archaeology in the Last Forty Years in African Studies since 1945
Even archaeologist Barbara Barich in her work Archaeology and Environment in the Libyan Sahara commented on similarities between Capsian culture farther west in Libya and the neolithic cultures of Egyptian oases like the Fayum such as oval shaped reed huts, the hearths and storage pits, and even the bodies interred in the homes. Fekri Hassan cites other material evidence like ground axes, tabular flint tools, lens-shaped bifacial arrowheads, concave-based arrowheads, ostrich shells, amazonite beads, and bone points.
Really the only thing tying Delta folk to Asia is trade goods and domesticates (both plant and animal). European fixate on the latter as their proof of Asiatic presence yet despite the Asian wheat and livestock, interestingly all the terms used for these organisms are native Egyptian and NON are non-Egyptian or Semitic. One would think that if a population of immigrants settled in Egypt bringing in their domestic goods that are foreign to the new land they would at least preserve their vocabulary for them!
People STOP trying to revive the Dynastic Race theory. Again its been thrown out the window.
Always had this same argument with Barros Serranos and it never turned out good for him...
There is a break in the characteristics of Lower Egypt with Israel, yes, but that can be explained by the presence of more African ancestry in LE than in Israel.

I recall a genetic study which indicated a majority of African ancestry in a predynastic LE site, but there was a sizeable minority of Mideastern ancestry.

The comparison with Capsians doesn't help you, since they were genetically of mostly Mideastern origin. Mechta-Afalou, Capsian, Maghreb Neolithic, all show entirely or mostly Mideastern ancestry, and there sits Lower Egypt between the Maghreb and the Mideast, but we're to believe no Mideasterners came to Lower Egypt in predynastic times?

Let's see some archaeological and genetic data for Lower Egypt showing all affinities identifiable, whether cultural, morphological or genetic.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#14 Apr 26, 2014
Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>
I would love to see all archaeological and genetic data for Lower Egypt, especially predynastic.
We end up arguing over %'s, as I am NOT saying there were no Nubian-affiliated peoples in predynastic Lower Egypt, simply that there was a more substantial contribution from Eurasians (Berber, Mideastern, types) than in Upper Egypt, where such contribution was negligible in predynastic times. And there were cultural differences between Upper and Lower, due in part simply to the different ecological context, but also due to different origins.
As already demonstrated (Kemp), there's not a lot of human remains in lower egypt from predynastic time but the small samples available cluster more with upper egyptian and other africans than with west asian or european. It seems they had a common origin for the most part. Personally, I would believe that there was indeed genetic contribution from western asia but it was minimal. That's based on the evidence we have. Further research and archaeological findings may change that assessment. But it seems, lower egypt in predynastic time had higher level of trading with western asia. Then of course, upper egypt, descendant of the Badarian culture, eventually took control of all of Egypt.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#15 Apr 26, 2014
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>Neolithic Farmers CAME FROM THE MIDDLE EAST about 5000-4200BC! THE MERIMDE CULTURE HAD TIES TO THE MIDDLE EAST!
The Neolithic Middle Eastern Farmers also went to ARABIA and EUROPE!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_E...
As pointed out already this seems to be a case of cultural diffusion not demic diffusion. The small quantities of human remains in lower egypt in predynastic time seems to cluster more with Africans than with West Asians or Europeans. There's a biological continuity along the Sudanese and Egyptian Nile Valley and surrounding deserts but not with Palestine, the Levant and West Asia. Only new findings and research change can change this assessment. Of course, even in case of cultural diffusion there's some minimal level of admixture and genetic exchange between neighboring and trading regions. I also agree what what Insect Trust says about the possibility that those people already practicing agriculture before incorporating new crops from western asia. But this has not been already demonstrated with certainty.

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#16 Apr 26, 2014
AberdiTheOlodumare wrote:
<quoted text>
As already demonstrated (Kemp), there's not a lot of human remains in lower egypt from predynastic time but the small samples available cluster more with upper egyptian and other africans than with west asian or european. It seems they had a common origin for the most part. Personally, I would believe that there was indeed genetic contribution from western asia but it was minimal. That's based on the evidence we have. Further research and archaeological findings may change that assessment. But it seems, lower egypt in predynastic time had higher level of trading with western asia. Then of course, upper egypt, descendant of the Badarian culture, eventually took control of all of Egypt.
cluster MORE with Upper Egyptian.... but that still doesn't tell us that they are NOT mixed with Mideasterners.

http://wysinger.homestead.com/keita.pdf

I'm reading this, haven't read every word yet. He mostly is analyzing the modern Egyptian population, and tracing the genes. I haven't yet found any DNA which is specifically predynastic, from archaeological remains. But he keeps mentioning a difference between north and south.

Let's not forget that "predynastic" includes the Neolithic period.

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#17 Apr 26, 2014
from p. 239 of the above linked article:

"Considering the possible explanations for the Y variation, the clinal patterns observed for mtDNA variants (Krings et al. 1999) become sujects of interest. This DNA is usually only inherited maternally. The mtDNA variants' distributions have been used to interpret the Nile valley as a zone of intergradation, created by the admixture populations of ditinct northern and southern origin having different haplotypes. Movement up and down the Nile corridor is the mechanism postulated to have produced the pattern (from the Mediterranean to the southern udan). The three military invasions have also been invoked to explain the mtDNA patterns (Krings et al 1999:1173). This is a less tenable explanation for these variants, since women were not soldiers in ancient Egypt and Nubia, and wives of soldiers would not likely have contributed to the gene pools of the conquered. The translocation of a lot of the population of the victorious parties is not attested.
However, the coalescence times for the slowly evolving northern and southernmost haplotypes by region should be considered (see Krings et al. 1999). These would seem to place the ancestor in the epoch of the less arid Sahara, in the early to pre-mid-holocene, when it was more populated or shortly after, when droughts were influential in causing emigration."

Later, Keita admits that many of the northern types are "Eurasian", but in attempting, as you do, to insist on a "100% African predynastic Egypt", he has to reclassify haplotypes known to be Eurasian as actually being African, as if the types which appeared from the differentiation of some L3 into Eurasian types MIGHT have occurred in Africa and presumably those type would persist in Lower Egypt, though in reality even if that were true it would mean only that the division of African and Eurasian is in that far northeastern corner of Africa rather than at the Suez or at Gaza.

There is no empirical evidence for a division exactly at the defined continental boundary. Nor is there evidence for an African origin of those Eurasian haplotype in Lower Egypt. What Keita has done is admit that there is clear evidence for Eurasians in predynastic Lower Egypt, but then attempts to argue them away, but with weak arguments.

I am still looking for the genetic studies themselves. I want to know just what haplotypes were present where and when.

Insect Trust
Level 1

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#18 Apr 26, 2014
AberdiTheOlodumare wrote:
<quoted text>
As pointed out already this seems to be a case of cultural diffusion not demic diffusion. The small quantities of human remains in lower egypt in predynastic time seems to cluster more with Africans than with West Asians or Europeans. There's a biological continuity along the Sudanese and Egyptian Nile Valley and surrounding deserts but not with Palestine, the Levant and West Asia. Only new findings and research change can change this assessment. Of course, even in case of cultural diffusion there's some minimal level of admixture and genetic exchange between neighboring and trading regions. I also agree what what Insect Trust says about the possibility that those people already practicing agriculture before incorporating new crops from western asia. But this has not been already demonstrated with certainty.
No, you are correct, it has not been demonstrated with certainty for Egypt. Dates that early exist for West Africa, which lead me to speculate that some domestication might have reached Egypt, since we do know of agricultural diffusion between Senegal and Ethiopia.
But I am only speculating about pre-Neolithic farming in the Nile Valley.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#19 Apr 26, 2014
Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you are correct, it has not been demonstrated with certainty for Egypt. Dates that early exist for West Africa, which lead me to speculate that some domestication might have reached Egypt, since we do know of agricultural diffusion between Senegal and Ethiopia.
But I am only speculating about pre-Neolithic farming in the Nile Valley.
Do you have any links or study name about those early dates in West Africa?

“Try harder :)”

Level 8

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#21 Apr 26, 2014
Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a break in the characteristics of Lower Egypt with Israel, yes, but that can be explained by the presence of more African ancestry in LE than in Israel.
Seems like you're reaching with this one.
Insect Trust wrote:
I recall a genetic study which indicated a majority of African ancestry in a predynastic LE site, but there was a sizeable minority of Mideastern ancestry.
Yet no studies I read even found Mideastern REMAINS in pre-dynastic Lower Egypt. Source? Because I have asked many for one, but to no avail have they done so. Maybe you'll be different. Hope so.
Insect Trust wrote:
The comparison with Capsians doesn't help you, since they were genetically of mostly Mideastern origin. Mechta-Afalou, Capsian, Maghreb Neolithic, all show entirely or mostly Mideastern ancestry, and there sits Lower Egypt between the Maghreb and the Mideast, but we're to believe no Mideasterners came to Lower Egypt in predynastic times?
Let's see some archaeological and genetic data for Lower Egypt showing all affinities identifiable, whether cultural, morphological or genetic.
Source that those three were Eurasian. The studies I read stated differently. Especially on the Mechta-Afalou.

"The extremely large skeletal samples that come from sites such as Taforalt (Fig. 8.13) and Afalou constitute an invaluable resource for understanding the makers of Iberomaurusian artefacts, and their number is unparalleled elsewhere in Africa for the early Holocene. Frequently termed Mechta-Afalou or Mechtoid, these were a skeletally robust people and definitely African in origin, though attempts, such as those of Ferembach (1985), to establish similarities with much older and rarer Aterian skeletal remains are tenuous given the immense temporal separation between the two (Close and Wendorf 1990). At the opposite end of the chronological spectrum, dental morphology does suggest connections with later Africans, including those responsible for the Capsian Industry (Irish 2000) and early mid-Holocene human remains from the western half of the Sahara (Dutour 1989), something that points to the Maghreb as one of the regions from which people recolonised the desert (MacDonald 1998)."
--Lawrence Barham
The First Africans: African Archaeology from the Earliest Toolmakers to Most Recent Foragers (Cambridge World Archaeology)

And when did I say there were no Eurasians in Lower Egypt? Did not say Lower Egyptians traded with Mid-Easternes?

What I'm trying to tell you people is that the Lower Egyptians as a whole were NO DIFFERENT from Upper Egyptians, in terms of biological affinity, culture and language. Again the dynastic race theory has been thrown out the window by Egyptologist. If you have sources that state otherwise then post them, especially sources talking EURASIAN remains IN pre-dynastic lower Egypt. Otherwise I'll just be wasting my time as always with this subject.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 25
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

African-American Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 2 min Joy 1,602,221
Do white men like fat black women? (Jan '09) 55 min BUTTALUV 482
Blacks, Apes, No. But Whites Have APE DNA (Aug '12) 57 min Alpha 150
News Trump Repeats Call to Fire Athletes Who Kneel f... 1 hr Ms Mack 1
North Korea FM: Trump is Mentally Deranged & Fu... 1 hr Ms Mack 7
What if Michael Jackson was "it" 1 hr Mr Lee 5
The black man is God 1 hr Ms Mack 6
A poem for all topix Hottentots 2 hr Mr Lee 2
White Desperation on Topix to have Blacks ACCEP... 2 hr lolwtf 20
This forum is like beating a dead ape... should... 3 hr Ttt 33
Why do black men believe anything that strokes ... 9 hr Samantha 47
More from around the web