Truths about slavery
the redeemer

Toronto, Canada

#21 Mar 1, 2013
It is estimated by John Azumah from the Legacy of Arab-Islam In Africa: A Quest for Inter-religious Dialogue.
That a total of 150-200million blacks exchanged in the arab slave trade of which it is estimated 10-15% survived castration. Through a period of almost 1250years!. Slavery within Hindustan is also estimated by muslims to be at 125,000 a year from 1400-1900 with a attempted 1 million a year forcibly conversion rate of which 50% were estimated to be killed due to lack of adherence to islam. We estimate that 500,000 people died a year in Hindustan from the period of 1400-1900 which is estimated 200-250million deaths by the hands of islam.(*Islamic Jihad- M Khan).

All races are horrible and have murdered millions not just white deal with it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and...
Total Estimated Deaths due to islam and its imperialism -500,000,000 over 1400 years.
Total deaths due to mao of the communist part of china – 60,000,000-80,000,000
Total Deaths in world war one and ww2 mostly within Europe – 65,000,000 to 113,000,000
Total deaths due to colonialism of the Americas -100,000,000 from 1492 to 1900
Total Mongul Conquests – 60,000,000 From 1202 to 1472
Late Yuan warfare and transition to Ming Dynasty – 30million time period 1340-1368
Qing dynasty conquest of the Ming Dynasty -25million people time period 1616-1662
Taiping Rebellion- 20million to 100million- range bound shady data for numbers time period1851-1864
Current Congo wars 7million to 12million deaths on going.
the redeemer

Toronto, Canada

#22 Mar 1, 2013
Now I could go on but I rather not just on wars and death. So you see wars and slavery have existed since the beginning of early civilization from all parts of the world. War is not a exclusively one race problem .Blaming one race for systemic structural problems of another race is called a “Scapegoat” and a mask of ignorance. Mercantilism and bullionism is at the stem of trade and wealth or profit if you will for non-economists. So thus slavery prior to industrialization was common practice to keep wages and compensation low and competitive by offering free labor.Slavery exists to this day in many parts of the world .However literal slavery in physical practice in not as high in frequency. Economic slavery by means of mass immigration is a form of slavery via wage suppression. Of Which creates cheaper labor that is unfair to citizens. A example is a computer programmer who is salaried at 60,000 a year.His/Her economic output typically can range for his/her company of a range of 4 to8 times his worth,sometimes higher . Just like in a mcdonalds employee is expected to output 100-130 dollars worth of economic output via sales orders in a span of 60minutes.The reality is economics and the human condition of greed, which is present in ALL RACES.due to the identity and “need for signification principle” of human thought. Forms of suppression will persist until the end of human civilizations through all races and all ages.From Romans to Modern day. Why don’t “whites who were enslaved by egyptians aka jews and other groups demand compensation , well because it’s the past we are not personally liable for what someone did 200 years ago. I know I am not I am only responsible for how I live my life .I cannot choose where I was born , or when , or what country , or who my parents are, so thus why is the past oh so brought up.If we cannot go back in past and change things. Should the jews or Iberians that were enslaved by arabs and Egyptians cry and be play victim for something that happened 600+ years ago? Of course not , is does not do anything for us to do so.The now is more important.
the redeemer

Toronto, Canada

#23 Mar 1, 2013
To conclude on this section about afrocentrics claiming whites are the most vile and murderous well .
I just proved that all races have murdered and enslaved another. Not just “white’s”.If whites are not a race as some of you argue its merely a social construct.Then why do you victimize that “social construct” of what is white. Are you not being well racist and hypocritical?
Currently all economic models from 5000 years ago and onward promote inequality via wealth distribution even in the time of pharaoh .It is a model that is existent through all human history and thus we all share similarities in being greedy, selfish ,and desire wealth and not care for another.Read “THE SELFISH GENE” BY DAWKINS. Lastly if we did originate in Africa shouldn’t everybody then blame Africans for inheriting the “Selfish gene”.LMAO of course not.That is a pitiful attempt to blame someone for your thought processes and your lack of accomplished and flaws.
THX Bringer of Tidings

United States

#24 Mar 1, 2013
AAMech wrote:
Don't care about this.
I'm going to have a good weekend.
Are they letting you out on work-release?
Ambitious Aloysius

United States

#25 Mar 1, 2013
Great posts.
Stag_R_Lee

Scottsdale, AZ

#26 Mar 1, 2013
the redeemer wrote:
It is estimated by John Azumah from the Legacy of Arab-Islam In Africa: A Quest for Inter-religious Dialogue.
That a total of 150-200million blacks exchanged in the arab slave trade of which it is estimated 10-15% survived castration. Through a period of almost 1250years!. Slavery within Hindustan is also estimated by muslims to be at 125,000 a year from 1400-1900 with a attempted 1 million a year forcibly conversion rate of which 50% were estimated to be killed due to lack of adherence to islam. We estimate that 500,000 people died a year in Hindustan from the period of 1400-1900 which is estimated 200-250million deaths by the hands of islam.(*Islamic Jihad- M Khan).
All races are horrible and have murdered millions not just white deal with it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and...
Total Estimated Deaths due to islam and its imperialism -500,000,000 over 1400 years.
Total deaths due to mao of the communist part of china – 60,000,000-80,000,000
Total Deaths in world war one and ww2 mostly within Europe – 65,000,000 to 113,000,000
Total deaths due to colonialism of the Americas -100,000,000 from 1492 to 1900
Total Mongul Conquests – 60,000,000 From 1202 to 1472
Late Yuan warfare and transition to Ming Dynasty – 30million time period 1340-1368
Qing dynasty conquest of the Ming Dynasty -25million people time period 1616-1662
Taiping Rebellion- 20million to 100million- range bound shady data for numbers time period1851-1864
Current Congo wars 7million to 12million deaths on going.
Your link has to do with death tolls in general. It's not clear whether slavery is even mentioned. In any case, the subject is not global slavery.
.
Your estimate of Arab/Muslim slave trade is more than ridiculous. This argument has been debunked too many times to mention. Please, please show records to prove your point. Otherwise, shut the f*cknup!
THX Chief Slave Whipper

United States

#27 Mar 1, 2013
Honest to God! You Negroes quote these Negro death toll numbers like dead Negroes are a bad thing [smdh]...
Giggs

Gillingham, UK

#28 Mar 1, 2013
MumRa wrote:
<quoted text>
Haiti freed their slaves in 1801. America freed their slaves in 1865 and it took the highest amount of American casualties to achieve this.
My country outlawed slavery in 1833 and policed the ocean to stop people being taken to America.

...but do we get treated any different?

My Grandfarther was Ukrainian......yet Im still a white devil responsible for oppressing your people.

Somehow every single white person must take the blame and responsibility for your problems.
Stag_R_Lee

Scottsdale, AZ

#29 Mar 1, 2013
the redeemer wrote:
Now I could go on but I rather not just on wars and death. So you see wars and slavery have existed since the beginning of early civilization from all parts of the world. War is not a exclusively one race problem .Blaming one race for systemic structural problems of another race is called a “Scapegoat” and a mask of ignorance. Mercantilism and bullionism is at the stem of trade and wealth or profit if you will for non-economists. So thus slavery prior to industrialization was common practice to keep wages and compensation low and competitive by offering free labor.Slavery exists to this day in many parts of the world .However literal slavery in physical practice in not as high in frequency. Economic slavery by means of mass immigration is a form of slavery via wage suppression. Of Which creates cheaper labor that is unfair to citizens. A example is a computer programmer who is salaried at 60,000 a year.His/Her economic output typically can range for his/her company of a range of 4 to8 times his worth,sometimes higher . Just like in a mcdonalds employee is expected to output 100-130 dollars worth of economic output via sales orders in a span of 60minutes.The reality is economics and the human condition of greed, which is present in ALL RACES.due to the identity and “need for signification principle” of human thought. Forms of suppression will persist until the end of human civilizations through all races and all ages.From Romans to Modern day. Why don’t “whites who were enslaved by egyptians aka jews and other groups demand compensation , well because it’s the past we are not personally liable for what someone did 200 years ago. I know I am not I am only responsible for how I live my life .I cannot choose where I was born , or when , or what country , or who my parents are, so thus why is the past oh so brought up.If we cannot go back in past and change things. Should the jews or Iberians that were enslaved by arabs and Egyptians cry and be play victim for something that happened 600+ years ago? Of course not , is does not do anything for us to do so.The now is more important.
Your understanding of the social/economics is juvenile, in a word, juvenile, childish, almost infantile.
...
The Civil War, here in the U.S, and the decline of slavery globally should have taught you something. Capitalist societies and slave based societies are profoundly different. Eugene Genovese, a well known historian, has written volumes on the subject. For example, read "The World the Slaveholders made." or his brilliant analysis of George Fitzhugh, a former slave owner.
Let me give you a few example. With wage slavery, the worker is free to "come and go as he pleases." With slavery the worker is required to remain on that particular plantation until he dies, sold or set free by the owner. Another aspect of the difference has to do with upward mobility. On this subject, I suggest you read Ian Rand, Here you should read Atlas Shrugged, or Fountain Head.
..
The main point is that a slave economy cannot exist next to a capitalist economy. One other reason is that slaves. themselves, will opt to escape so they can work in a capitalist economy.
Stag_R_Lee

Scottsdale, AZ

#30 Mar 1, 2013
the redeemer wrote:
Now I could go on but I rather not just on wars and death. So you see wars and slavery have existed since the beginning of early civilization from all parts of the world. War is not a exclusively one race problem .Blaming one race for systemic structural problems of another race is called a “Scapegoat” and a mask of ignorance. Mercantilism and bullionism is at the stem of trade and wealth or profit if you will for non-economists. So thus slavery prior to industrialization was common practice to keep wages and compensation low and competitive by offering free labor.Slavery exists to this day in many parts of the world .However literal slavery in physical practice in not as high in frequency. Economic slavery by means of mass immigration is a form of slavery via wage suppression. Of Which creates cheaper labor that is unfair to citizens. A example is a computer programmer who is salaried at 60,000 a year.His/Her economic output typically can range for his/her company of a range of 4 to8 times his worth,sometimes higher . Just like in a mcdonalds employee is expected to output 100-130 dollars worth of economic output via sales orders in a span of 60minutes.The reality is economics and the human condition of greed, which is present in ALL RACES.due to the identity and “need for signification principle” of human thought. Forms of suppression will persist until the end of human civilizations through all races and all ages.From Romans to Modern day. Why don’t “whites who were enslaved by egyptians aka jews and other groups demand compensation , well because it’s the past we are not personally liable for what someone did 200 years ago. I know I am not I am only responsible for how I live my life .I cannot choose where I was born , or when , or what country , or who my parents are, so thus why is the past oh so brought up.If we cannot go back in past and change things. Should the jews or Iberians that were enslaved by arabs and Egyptians cry and be play victim for something that happened 600+ years ago? Of course not , is does not do anything for us to do so.The now is more important.
I have not read Azumah, But a search of the net does not reveal a single respected credential. This suggest that at best he is a spreader of propaganda and if not, he may be a crazed individual who desperately needs psychiatric care.
Stag_R_Lee

Scottsdale, AZ

#31 Mar 1, 2013
Giggs wrote:
<quoted text>
My country outlawed slavery in 1833 and policed the ocean to stop people being taken to America.
...but do we get treated any different?
My Grandfarther was Ukrainian......yet Im still a white devil responsible for oppressing your people.
Somehow every single white person must take the blame and responsibility for your problems.
Who blames Ukrania, situated on the Black Sea, for trans Atlantic slavery. Also, don't kid yourself the English had much to do with slavery. As a matter of fact, Liverpool, in particular, has a sordid history in most anything related to immorality and unprincipled behavior, slavery included.
ilikebagels

Toronto, Canada

#32 Mar 1, 2013
Stag_r_lee
you fail to see any logic to anything. I was making several points of which consists of
1) black assumption that whites are murders and the "Worst of all races" AS INDICATED BY MANY AFROCENTRICS
2)Figures are accurate , arab slave trade over 1200 years say 200million people pegs it 166666 people a year.Not a unrealistic number or a span of 1200 years.Look at population dynamics.Procedures were much less accurate and result in deaths or impairment.Castration resulted in deaths.Look up chinese Eunuch rate of deaths considerable high mind you.All the references are from scholars a good bulk are from non white sources.So thus to remove the "supposed western view" that blacks think is a "lie".Wage suppression is a result of several things ,paying someone barely any money is a form of monetary suppression fact.Look up poor countries.Prove to me econometric wise it is not.Please do not result to insults a person character to perpetuate your need to be correct.All it does it make you look like you actually know what you talking about.Are you that blind to even see how the numbers make sense.I mean surely if the Indonesians can offer 30000 black slaves as offering.Then naturally 167k*(with a say 20% survival rate) so say 32.5k a per year over near 1000 years surely amounts to a realistic number.Perhaps you just cannot fact the facts that what happened is yes unfortunate by not my doing or yours and you are really ignorant

Look up John, he is a black man
from drum rolllll please

http://www.ctsnet.edu/FacultyMember.aspx...

http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/schools/ptr/depar...

BIRMINGHAM OH MY GOD, IS THAT NOT CREDIBLE ENOUGH FOR YOU ? A SCHOLAR WHO IS BLACK AND IS ADDRESSING REALISTIC NUMBERS, GEE I GUESS just because you want to be right you call him a psycho .What a same to make such assumptions.
ilikebagels

Toronto, Canada

#33 Mar 1, 2013
Stag_R_Lee wrote:
<quoted text>
Your understanding of the social/economics is juvenile, in a word, juvenile, childish, almost infantile.
...
The Civil War, here in the U.S, and the decline of slavery globally should have taught you something. Capitalist societies and slave based societies are profoundly different. Eugene Genovese, a well known historian, has written volumes on the subject. For example, read "The World the Slaveholders made." or his brilliant analysis of George Fitzhugh, a former slave owner.
Let me give you a few example. With wage slavery, the worker is free to "come and go as he pleases." With slavery the worker is required to remain on that particular plantation until he dies, sold or set free by the owner. Another aspect of the difference has to do with upward mobility. On this subject, I suggest you read Ian Rand, Here you should read Atlas Shrugged, or Fountain Head.
..
The main point is that a slave economy cannot exist next to a capitalist economy. One other reason is that slaves. themselves, will opt to escape so they can work in a capitalist economy.
UM SO IN A CAPITALIST SOCIETY , essentially inequality and unfair compensation and debt servitude does not exist? are you sure on that one? slavery still happens to this day in africa and parts of asia and even some remote areas in eastern europe . Wage slavery exists in china and many parts of the world.Capitalism exploits the inequalities of society to benefit the few via the suppression of the masses or the poor.A form of servitude imposed by partial free will and a :"construct" of opportunity for capitalist people.Nothing wrong with capitalism but wage and debt servitude is a form of slavery.Not a literal slave economy but paying someone almost nothing is like them being a slave fact.Com panies love to have you think capitalism works for the betterment of society but rather it is competitiveness and innovation that is the real reason capitalist societies succeed.Wage slavery is icing on the cake to merely suppress a majority of the people from actually accomplishing anything substantial, until they either a)risk all and pursue a goal or b )use the system for their benefit.Please do not attempt to school my on economics. I graduated from a school that focuses on economics one of the best might I add
ilikebagels

Toronto, Canada

#34 Mar 1, 2013
I am going to be "naive" and assume your african american and has no real concept of the world outside of their environment.Having been to more countries then us states. I highly suggest you retract your statements,On your egoist view of 1)being right and 2)not even being realistic and a gentlement with your rebuttal
KingSupreme

Charlotte, NC

#35 Mar 2, 2013
MumRa wrote:
<quoted text>
Well it worked. Lincoln was smart.
Not smart enough to keep himself from being put into the position of being shot.

Take a look at the blacks in this country, take a look at what you people complain about, and tell me again that it worked, lol.
Stan

Warner Robins, GA

#36 Mar 2, 2013
Everyone wants to see the bad side of slavery,they go as far as banning,and saying the Disney movie The Song Of The South "Sugar Coated" the image of slavery. Really? At the time the movie was produced, slave recollections were a lot fresher than they are now. Spike Lee, and other black racist are capitalizing on producing movies that make whites look like monsters and blacks look like innocent victims.
Stag_R_Lee

Scottsdale, AZ

#37 Mar 2, 2013
ilikebagels wrote:
Stag_r_lee
you fail to see any logic to anything. I was making several points of which consists of
1) black assumption that whites are murders and the "Worst of all races" AS INDICATED BY MANY AFROCENTRICS
2)Figures are accurate , arab slave trade over 1200 years say 200million people pegs it 166666 people a year.Not a unrealistic number or a span of 1200 years.Look at population dynamics.Procedures were much less accurate and result in deaths or impairment.Castration resulted in deaths.Look up chinese Eunuch rate of deaths considerable high mind you.All the references are from scholars a good bulk are from non white sources.So thus to remove the "supposed western view" that blacks think is a "lie".Wage suppression is a result of several things ,paying someone barely any money is a form of monetary suppression fact.Look up poor countries.Prove to me econometric wise it is not.Please do not result to insults a person character to perpetuate your need to be correct.All it does it make you look like you actually know what you talking about.Are you that blind to even see how the numbers make sense.I mean surely if the Indonesians can offer 30000 black slaveschris as offering.Then naturally 167k*(with a say 20% survival rate) so say 32.5k a per year over near 1000 years surely amounts to a realistic number.Perhaps you just cannot fact the facts that what happened is yes unfortunate by not my doing or yours and you are really ignorant
Look up John, he is a black man
from drum rolllll please
http://www.ctsnet.edu/FacultyMember.aspx...
http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/schools/ptr/depar...
BIRMINGHAM OH MY GOD, IS THAT NOT CREDIBLE ENOUGH FOR YOU ? A SCHOLAR WHO IS BLACK AND IS ADDRESSING REALISTIC NUMBERS, GEE I GUESS just because you want to be right you call him a psycho .What a same to make such assumptions.
..

Thank you for pulling up info on Azmu, Yes, I respect his academic and professional background. Did you notice, he' s a theologian. He is not scientist, i.e., someone that has earned academic credentials related to the study of slavery, The subject of this thread is "slavery." That is to say, theologians have every right to enter into discussions about slavery, so long as it is clearly understood that their position, more often than not, is based on doctrinal notions, e.g., "Christ died for our sins," etc. What is needed, inso far as your claims about Islamic slavery is verifiable data that can stand up to empirical verification. This wold include items such as ship records, stock exchange listings, insurance policies, records of exchange, etc.
.
Also, it should be noted that Azmuh is an office holder in a Christian church. Obviously, there is a question of bias.
gojjod

Rochester, PA

#38 Mar 2, 2013
youtube.com/watch... …
Its just not a Job its a Adventure
Stag_R_Lee

Scottsdale, AZ

#39 Mar 2, 2013
ilikebagels wrote:
<quoted text>
UM SO IN A CAPITALIST SOCIETY , essentially inequality and unfair compensation and debt servitude does not exist? are you sure on that one? slavery still happens to this day in africa and parts of asia and even some remote areas in eastern europe . Wage slavery exists in china and many parts of the world.Capitalism exploits the inequalities of society to benefit the few via the suppression of the masses or the poor.A form of servitude imposed by partial free will and a :"construct" of opportunity for capitalist people.Nothing wrong with capitalism but wage and debt servitude is a form of slavery.Not a literal slave economy but paying someone almost nothing is like them being a slave fact.Com panies love to have you think capitalism works for the betterment of society but rather it is competitiveness and innovation that is the real reason capitalist societies succeed.Wage slavery is icing on the cake to merely suppress a majority of the people from actually accomplishing anything substantial, until they either a)risk all and pursue a goal or b )use the system for their benefit.Please do not attempt to school my on economics. I graduated from a school that focuses on economics one of the best might I add
.
I can only refer you to Ian Rand and Genovese. You may not know this but Rand lived under communism. She was in a perfect position to portray a difference between communism and capitalism. Agreed, communism is not slavery, but it's theoretical basis is a repudiation of the "wage slave" state, while Rand, by comparison, considered capitalism to be among the best, if not the best, socio economic systems ever devised, the route to true freedom.
,
Genovese was known as a Marxist historian. That is, he viewed capitalism from a different perspective then, say, Rand. As indicated, he found the two systems to be in conflict with each other.
..
I have already mention geographic and upward mobility. Another big difference has to do with social organization. Plantation living was often isolated, as so much land was needed for profitable production. This gave rise to a family orientation among slaveholders and their slave. It was not unusual, for example, to refer to a slave as "uncle," or "aunt." .
.
In a capitalist socio- economic society, there is a distance between the capitalist and the wage earner. The argument is that the worker is used in a way that allows overproduction, but at the same wages, thus leaving the capitalist with a surplus. Once the worker is laid off the doors are shackled and "Not Hiring" signs are put up in order to keep the worker away, but the capitalist continues to profit because the stored commodities remain available. This, obviously, differs from plantation style living because the slave remains on the property and owners allow the slaves to use the resources available, even during periods of economic downturn, and the slaves remains until their services are again required.-- no matter the amount of surplus.

Level 6

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#41 Mar 2, 2013
Only American slave trade murdered 50 million people. Muslim slaves were treated like humans and not like animals because there weren't racial theories doing the animalization of slaves in the head of their masters.

Slaves in Islam could rule entire states, Malik Ambar, Ikhlas Khan, Aybak, Baybars, Mansa Sakoura are some notorious examples of this.

I'm tired of repeat that daily.

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