Black Feminist Movement

“Creole Coated!”

Level 6

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#538 Jun 15, 2013
berriesgalore wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't really look at race anymore in that way. Ive been about gender primarily I would love to know if there are studies published on the separation of bm / bw?
What do you think of this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_segregation#...

A push "legally" compel sex segregation or
"gender apartheid" of BW & BM in the name of safety? Of course the links touches on it not being an either or.. there could be the option of voluntary to "live" apart (meaning separate work environment, places of worship, shopping markets, etc..somewhat of the practices that are in place among Muslims and some Jews..minus the religious influence as a motive..it will make a dramatic impact of the harassment BW face...and I would welcome such a community..obviously there would be men included in our intimate circle)....and have legal backing to enforce this right among those who opt for a gender divide.

“Creole Coated!”

Level 6

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#540 Jun 15, 2013
berriesgalore wrote:
<quoted text>
Cog better not be serious about his stance on this issue. I always thought he was annoying but not THAT annoying. lol.
He's dead serious and yes he's that annoying and more

“Creole Coated!”

Level 6

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#541 Jun 16, 2013
berriesgalore,
I can't find your post about MLK focus on BM..to reply to it..
but my thoughts are:
The Black movement catered to the needs & interest of BM..fighting racism was primarily envision as restoration of black masculinity...hence why we hear them parroting the need for redemption of patriarchy..and the downplaying of the effects of racism on BW.."it harms us less"...and to promote such lies..some of them will go as far as deny our foremothers were ever raped..brutally so for some/many at that.. They "much like today" practice indiscriminate access to IR sex putting their GENDER desires before the embetterment of the race/community..and at a 24% IR and growing..they still "demand" BW's GENDER needs take a backseat to her race...something they are refusing to do in large numbers..
And the sexist attitudes..coupled with ongoing verbal insults & other ill-manner behavior is in the fiber of the culture....all of which has been eating at the bond between the two for a very long time now...it is these equality (among others), lack of respect & value that has harmed the relations between the gender..Black feminist was simply birth out of such abuse and neglect..and if compromises aren't met like yesterday..I'm sure there will be another wave of a gender separation movement..we all seen people from both sides call for this..it's just a matter of time before some arise and establish it on a large scale..

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#542 Jun 16, 2013
i think aaw should build a movement around how they can stop giving racist koreans all their money and support black businesses. i think they should rally around how they might help turn around the dysfunctional aa home, and end the gender war with their men. i think aaw should rally around increasing breast feeding rates, and lowering their abortion rate. i think they should form think tanks around how they might improve academic success of their sons and daughters (who also have a very high dropout rate). i think aaw should help deal with the issue of promiscuity and high std rates. i think aaw should be bout the community and not about 'hair issues' and creating more division with their men.

Level 4

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#543 Jun 16, 2013
vampiYAH stabB wrote:
For some reason, I have a difficult time with seeing the Black agenda being expressed through any concept of feminism; even if it IS "Black Feminism".
Feminism, in & of itself has been euro-centric from its foundation. Women's Suffrage too was an institution heavily steeped in the concerns pertaining to white women.
If the Black woman is going to be about her nation and the women consisting of it, I personally don't believe any form of feminism is going to satisfy her palette of her seeing various forms of much needed social justices materialized.
DISCLAIMER: This is just MY OPINION. I'm only speaking on the behalf of ME.
But Some Of Us Are Brave: All the Women Are White, All the Blacks Are Men: Black Women's Studies [Paperback]
Gloria T. Hull (Editor), Patricia Bell Scott (Editor), Barbara Smith (Editor)

Good book on that

http://www.amazon.com/But-Some-Of-Are-Brave/d...
Enki

Jacksonville, FL

#544 Jun 16, 2013
Cogito2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Very astute assessment. For me, I have long since accepted that people are first and foremost, self preservationist, which is the first law of nature. And though we are socialized to think and identify in terms of groups; whenever the males of that group under or non performs in the Darwinian struggle for the material resources of this world against others; many of the female group members will scatter like rats on a sinking ship.
This to some extent, is our situation. However, oddly enough, I don't blame the sisters for selfishly retreating from the collective group, nor do I, as you said, knock their hustle; I only insist that they declare a position and stick with it. For me, there can be no one foot in the door and the other foot on the outside.
I am sincere in my desire to identify those sisters who are loyal to black men and our struggles and to recompense them for their resiliency. And though I truly have nothing against the sisters who choose to caste their lot with non black men or those who believe that the sisterhood alone will suffice to meet their ends, I do not, metaphorically, want one of them in an opportunistic moment to occupy a seat in the life boat that is designated for those devoted loyal sisters who have stayed the course.
Mental, moral and spiritual fortitude, unfortunately, is not equitably distributed among us, so those that can.....do; and those that can not....don't. For me it is a pointless and inefficient use of my masculine energies to allocate concern for those who have no concern for me. Ultimately, it is incumbent upon each of us independently to negotiate our lot in life, and while we may endeavor to impart certain insights to our womenfolks, we must accept that we will never achieve a consensus with them.
If it comes to past that we have to start anew, then so shall it be. I work with white boys, jewish guys etc., in the commodity business and they are terrified of the brewing storms of the financial global meltdown; and they are getting their ducks in order to protect themselves and theirs; as I am likewise intent upon doing. So, while I do engage the sisters on mediums of exchange such as this place, my direction and course of action is resolute and clear. I will wish them will and turn and focus on those who merit my love, affection and protection.
To solidify both of our points on this particular aspect of black feminism i will point you to post #538 in which they(Berrie and Proud Sis) actively entertain the idea of separation of the sexes.

In response to this particular passage:

"This to some extent, is our situation. However, oddly enough, I don't blame the sisters for selfishly retreating from the collective group, nor do I, as you said, knock their hustle; I only insist that they declare a position and stick with it. For me, there can be no one foot in the door and the other foot on the outside.
I am sincere in my desire to identify those sisters who are loyal to black men and our struggles and to recompense them for their resiliency. And though I truly have nothing against the sisters who choose to caste their lot with non black men or those who believe that the sisterhood alone will suffice to meet their ends, I do not, metaphorically, want one of them in an opportunistic moment to occupy a seat in the life boat that is designated for those devoted loyal sisters who have stayed the course."

This is exactly where I am.

Black Women declare your position and stick with it;for once you exit these doors you are outside for good.If black men by happenstance or sheer grit and will make things better to the point where conditions are better inside than on the outside do not I repeat DO NOT "barbarian the gate".The most important reason being that you will not be allowed back in only to contaminate the few selfless resilient,persevering black women that decided to stay.

Level 4

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#545 Jun 16, 2013
berriesgalore wrote:
<quoted text>
What you are failing to understand is that you are in fact asking bw to simpky put their NEEDS on the backburner in order for blacks as a whole to do what exactly??? Fighting against racism is a false fight. Its neverendinv because the system of governance is not going to change its hierarchy. So what you are doing is wasting time gtoupwise obsessing over something which just is, instead of using intelligence to maneuver it. Because of this what you are essentially deducting is that bw should simply be invisible (despite your admittance bm would never support something where they were asked to do something so ridiculous)...please explain how any right thinking woman would surrender in such a way?
Brilliant. I wanted to add that in a talk about BW, BM always come up and it again becomes about BM. Therefore, I think to keep focus, ignore all posts about BM, however relevant they may be.

Level 4

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#546 Jun 16, 2013
THE #1 ENEMY OF WOMEN EVERYWHERE is Hollywood, the porn industry and all that connects to them. All the media, flesh magazines and tv shows that exploit your appearance and sexuality are also perverting it and perverting men's view of you. So some like Kardasian have made their millions selling their image and thus their bodies to the highest bidder.. It's obviously not worth it, given the loss of dignity and the respect of millions. Sure they'll love your form, but they will care nothing for your person, your mind or beliefs/views. Your legacy will forever be fleshly and superficial and what is recorded on cam or snapped in a photo will never go away, EVER.

Basically, women need to control their image and stay far away from the exploitation. All of it is vanity, carnal and having nothing to do with moral values or anything of substance. So many out there try and make a living off of their bodies/image as models and actresses and end up prostitutes or worse. It's a cancer and eroding society and morality the world over and it's had an undeniable hand in destroying the black family. Imo, black women and BM ESPECIALLY need to discard/boycott the white media monster, because it's only ever been damaging to us, with it's false portrayal and truly evil agenda. It has been highly effective at shaping public opinion on not just women but the entire.
Sadbuttrue

Woodbridge, VA

#548 Jun 16, 2013
Triceroy--MACEO wrote:
.
Basically, women need to control their image and stay far away from the exploitation. All of it is vanity, carnal and having nothing to do with moral values or anything of substance. So many out there try and make a living off of their bodies/image as models and actresses and end up prostitutes or worse. It's a cancer and eroding society and morality the world over and it's had an undeniable hand in destroying the black family. Imo, black women and BM ESPECIALLY need to discard/boycott the white media monster, because it's only ever been damaging to us, with it's false portrayal and truly evil agenda. It has been highly effective at shaping public opinion on not just women but the entire.
MACEO

I told you prior, folks look at your back ground and history; YOUR A LOSER! You chased WW for 40 years while you put Black women down and didn't even do for your own Mother who had CANCER!

Your a FOOL; nobody respects a man who doesn't know who he is!

Sorry I have to be honest; your Life is a MESS!
Sadbuttrue

Woodbridge, VA

#549 Jun 16, 2013
MACEO this you perfectly!

Wednesday, July 14, 2010
Black men Hating Black women

I recently came across a book written by a self-described “touring stand-up comedian, day trader, filmmaker and lecturer” named Rajen Persaud. The book is entitled “Why Black Men Love White Women.” I found the book’s title startling, primarily because it explicitly acknowledged a fact of which many in the black community are acutely aware, but that is rarely openly discussed: that black men love white women

While many black men actively express love, admiration, and desire for white women, that loving white women is an inherent part of black manhood in the West is not something that black men like to openly admit. Their adoration of white women is an uncomfortable fact for many black men to face, since this love seems to play neatly into stereotypes about uncontrollable “animal” lust for white flesh that black people, especially black women, have actively campaigned against Additionally, and perhaps more significantly, black men are deeply uncomfortable with the conundrum presented by loving the daughter, the sister, the very womb that produces their declared enemy. Even Mr. Persaud seems incapable of facing the centrality of this latter issue, since, despite his refreshing candor in titling his book, its gravamen has as much to do with hatred for black women as it does love for white women.; “Black Women are Gold Diggers”; “Sisters Have an Attitude”), facing the significance and practical implications of their love of whiteness is difficult for many black men. Instead, these emotions are channeled into loathing of black women, which is justified by cataloging black women’s myriad “shortcomings.” This allows black men to claim to be proud and self-loving, while simultaneously adoring and esteeming all things white.

Mr. Persaud begins his book with the contention that any exploration of black male love for white women must begin “with the white man.” This is a common-place tactic; it is difficult for black men in the West to begin any discussion or critical analysis of any issue without circling back to white men, especially if the resulting discourse will be less than flattering to black men.

Whether denominated as racio-misogyny or not, the root of black male hatred of black women is the conceptualization of women as objects. Objects have relative value, and in the hierarchy

When black men look at black women and children, they see the shame of emasculation, of inadequacy, of the inability to protect and provide. And rather than being enraged and inspired by this experience of being unmanned to fight for their dependents, black men seek to escape them, and the pain of feeling like less than men. rather than confronting white men

White women, on the other hand, have the highest value as objects. They feel like they accomplish so much marrying a white woman while they put black women down. To men who feel like nothing, a white or white-skinned woman is a tangible accomplishment; a thing that they can point to which immediately frees them from the burden of blackness. In the words of Frantz Fanon “By loving me she [his white woman] proves that I am worthy of white love. I am loved like a white man. I am a white man. I marry the culture, white beauty, white whiteness. When my restless hands caress those white breasts, they grasp white civilization and dignity and make them mine.” White women are the prize, and black men are eagerly claiming that prize after the exhausting struggles for manumission and Civil Rights. They may not have gained real access to equal work, equal pay, equal wealth or equal opportunity; but black men have gained access to the bodies of white women. In the face of so many losses, possessing a white or non-black woman feels like a sufficient win for many black men. Well black boys and young black men pay the greatest price for the neglect and escapism of their fathers
Sadbuttrue

Woodbridge, VA

#550 Jun 16, 2013
Triceroy wrote:
THE #1 ENEMY OF WOMEN EVERYWHERE is Hollywood, the porn industry an a living off of their bodies/image as models and actresses and end up prostitutes or worse. It's a cancer and eroding society and morality the world over and it's had an undeniable hand in destroying the black family. Imo, black women and BM ESPECIALLY need to discard/boycott the white media monster, because it's only ever been damaging to us, with it's false portrayal and truly evil agenda. It has been highly effective at shaping public opinion on not just women but the entire.
Maceo

Folks look at your history and what choices you made! You sound like a fool after chasing white women for some 40 years while putting Black women down!

All you do is whine on forums and stay angry at black women!

MACEO GO DIE; NOBODY WANTS YOU!
Sadbuttrue

Woodbridge, VA

#551 Jun 16, 2013
Wednesday, July 14, 2010
Black men Hating Black women
(sounds like MACEO and his freinds who do the samethings)

I recently came across a book written by a self-described “touring stand-up comedian, day trader, filmmaker and lecturer” named Rajen Persaud. The book is entitled “Why Black Men Love White Women.” I found the book’s title startling, primarily because it explicitly acknowledged a fact of which many in the black community are acutely aware, but that is rarely openly discussed: that black men love white women

While many black men actively express love, admiration, and desire for white women, that loving white women is an inherent part of black manhood in the West is not something that black men like to openly admit. Their adoration of white women is an uncomfortable fact for many black men to face, since this love seems to play neatly into stereotypes about uncontrollable “animal” lust for white flesh that black people, especially black women, have actively campaigned against Additionally, and perhaps more significantly, black men are deeply uncomfortable with the conundrum presented by loving the daughter, the sister, the very womb that produces their declared enemy. Even Mr. Persaud seems incapable of facing the centrality of this latter issue, since, despite his refreshing candor in titling his book, its gravamen has as much to do with hatred for black women as it does love for white women.; “Black Women are Gold Diggers”; “Sisters Have an Attitude”), facing the significance and practical implications of their love of whiteness is difficult for many black men. Instead, these emotions are channeled into loathing of black women, which is justified by cataloging black women’s myriad “shortcomings.” This allows black men to claim to be proud and self-loving, while simultaneously adoring and esteeming all things white.

Mr. Persaud begins his book with the contention that any exploration of black male love for white women must begin “with the white man.” This is a common-place tactic; it is difficult for black men in the West to begin any discussion or critical analysis of any issue without circling back to white men, especially if the resulting discourse will be less than flattering to black men.

Whether denominated as racio-misogyny or not, the root of black male hatred of black women is the conceptualization of women as objects. Objects have relative value, and in the hierarchy

When black men look at black women and children, they see the shame of emasculation, of inadequacy, of the inability to protect and provide. And rather than being enraged and inspired by this experience of being unmanned to fight for their dependents, black men seek to escape them, and the pain of feeling like less than men. rather than confronting white men

White women, on the other hand, have the highest value as objects. They feel like they accomplish so much marrying a white woman while they put black women down. To men who feel like nothing, a white or white-skinned woman is a tangible accomplishment; a thing that they can point to which immediately frees them from the burden of blackness. In the words of Frantz Fanon “By loving me she [his white woman] proves that I am worthy of white love. I am loved like a white man. I am a white man. I marry the culture, white beauty, white whiteness. When my restless hands caress those white breasts, they grasp white civilization and dignity and make them mine.” White women are the prize, and black men are eagerly claiming that prize after the exhausting struggles for manumission and Civil Rights. They may not have gained real access to equal work, equal pay, equal wealth or equal opportunity; but black men have gained access to the bodies of white women. In the face of so many losses, possessing a white or non-black woman feels like a sufficient win for many black men. Well black boys and young black men pay the greatest price for the neglect and escapism of their fathers

Level 7

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#554 Jun 16, 2013
"So you say your baby daddy ain't ish??! Well you picked him!!!"

http://sotomayortv.com/...

Level 4

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#555 Jun 16, 2013
Proud Sis wrote:
How is that justified? I am not trying to disgrace anyone, but the rapes during the Japanese tsunami were slim if not existent. How is this rationalized? I understand that sexual prowess defines masculinity when other factors are taken away - but how is sex relief/power necessary during a time of survival/crisis? This is not a rhetorical question. I would love a response - I don't get it.

“dreams”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#556 Jun 16, 2013
Proud Sis wrote:
<quoted text>What do you think of this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_segregation#...
A push "legally" compel sex segregation or
"gender apartheid" of BW & BM in the name of safety? Of course the links touches on it not being an either or.. there could be the option of voluntary to "live" apart (meaning separate work environment, places of worship, shopping markets, etc..somewhat of the practices that are in place among Muslims and some Jews..minus the religious influence as a motive..it will make a dramatic impact of the harassment BW face...and I would welcome such a community..obviously there would be men included in our intimate circle)....and have legal backing to enforce this right among those who opt for a gender divide.
I never knew this was an actual study ??..and then with so many differing aspects and levels of it??..Very surprised and downright disturbed that such a thing needs to be studied. Are women truly this hated?..The origins of this comes from Hindu and Muslim systems where women were secluded.

--Critical Race Feminism is interesting however and seems to touch on the concerns bw have in regards to treatment and the larger society. This has sparked some curiorsity for me.

I just don't know about seclusion/separation because it still seems like punishment toward women for no other reason then being women. Protections I'm for..not sure about separation.

“dreams”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#557 Jun 16, 2013
Proud Sis wrote:
berriesgalore,
I can't find your post about MLK focus on BM..to reply to it..
but my thoughts are:
The Black movement catered to the needs & interest of BM..fighting racism was primarily envision as restoration of black masculinity...hence why we hear them parroting the need for redemption of patriarchy..and the downplaying of the effects of racism on BW.."it harms us less"...and to promote such lies..some of them will go as far as deny our foremothers were ever raped..brutally so for some/many at that.. They "much like today" practice indiscriminate access to IR sex putting their GENDER desires before the embetterment of the race/community..and at a 24% IR and growing..they still "demand" BW's GENDER needs take a backseat to her race...something they are refusing to do in large numbers..
And the sexist attitudes..coupled with ongoing verbal insults & other ill-manner behavior is in the fiber of the culture....all of which has been eating at the bond between the two for a very long time now...it is these equality (among others), lack of respect & value that has harmed the relations between the gender..Black feminist was simply birth out of such abuse and neglect..and if compromises aren't met like yesterday..I'm sure there will be another wave of a gender separation movement..we all seen people from both sides call for this..it's just a matter of time before some arise and establish it on a large scale..
And remembering the "fight/begging" was always about SOCIAL injustice. I don't think many, not even bm themselves, understood what that truly meant. It was never about racism to begin with imo. If it were they wouldn't have cared about social anything. How can you force someone to accept you socially?? The answer is --you can't. You can force tolerance..but not acceptance.

“dreams”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#558 Jun 16, 2013
Cogito2 wrote:
<quoted text> I'm told that being an azzhole is what of the more charming parts of my personality!
I don't know how charming it is but you sure do have that part of your personality perfected.

“dreams”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#560 Jun 16, 2013
Enki wrote:
<quoted text>
So Berrie,in Hurricane Katrina's destructive aftermath black women not having the infrastructural support of white men united with black men.
-I don't know if I understand where you are coming from when you state bw united with bm during Katrina?? Was there some type of pump your fist thing going on that I missed? All I saw was some folks trying to survive because they were dying. I doubt anything else took precendence. Bm didn't have anything more or less than bw during that tragedy. They were all trying to do the same thing--which was to simply survive. If you are in a life and death situation wouldn't you unite with the KKK if you had to?
Enki wrote:
<quoted text>

But when the white men came back in with FEMA black women then went back to being in opposition to black men.
I'm sorry sir but I'm still having trouble understanding what the hell you are getting at. Was taking shelter the betrayal?

Maybe you can tell me what you view as opposition and what you view as standing with bm?? Maybe if you give me clear definitions and boundaries I can respond in an intelligent manner...I don't want to call you bat sh!t crazy just yet.
Enki wrote:
<quoted text>

Gotcha! My point exactly! When the Black Woman has no other support then ,and only then, does she see the value in aligning herself with black men...But when other(they would say "better") options present themselves she goes the other way.
Puts the oft quoted phrase "expanding our options" in a new light.
-I don't know if I understand where you are coming from when you state bw united with bm during Katrina?? Was there some type of pump your fist thing going on that I missed? All I saw was some folks trying to survive because they were dying. I doubt anything else took precendence. Bm didn't have anything more or less than bw during that tragedy. They were all trying to do the same thing--which was to simply survive. If you are in a life and death situation wouldn't you unite with the KKK if you had to?

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#561 Jun 16, 2013
berriesgalore wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know how charming it is but you sure do have that part of your personality perfected.
But alas, external to myself, only the votes of those who know and love me are registered to render judgment of me in this regard. But nonetheless, thanks for playing; we have a lovely parting gift for you!

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#563 Jun 16, 2013
Sorry, blame Topix for the double post!

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