why are latinos racist towards blacks...
REMANENTE

Buenos Aires, Argentina

#128 Apr 15, 2008
Garrig wrote:
<quoted text>
You previously said that discrimination in Latin America is based classicism and now you admit that dark skin is a factor. And then you mention that it happens in asiatic cultures to make it somehow seem normal.
And of course Latin Blacks do acknowledge a cultural heritage. They are actually closer to their African roots than AA's as they have preserve more of their original culture, an example is their music and things like Santeria and Camdoble etc
I have also responde to this statement in my previous post, and I am sorry if my answers are not well expressed or incomplete.
no, im not argentinian,i,m uruguayan but im doing university here.
but I will repeat the problem is poberty and colorism, wich yes, is a way of racism but much more complicated than the white black problem because it also includes all the tones in between (someone has expresed it very neatly in a previous post) thats why here we here organize ourselves in classist convative political movements to fight poberty and the imposibility of upward mobility, and not to fight racism, wich is so dificult to define or to fight against when it turns into c olorism wich is somehow amorphus.
ps: Now that I know you are in contac with afro latino issues there in the US i wanted to ask you another thing:
do you think that in the next decades, colorism could become a problem in the us? like in brazil and the rest of latin america??
REMANENTE

Buenos Aires, Argentina

#129 Apr 15, 2008
lala wrote:
<quoted text>
Race issues in Brasil is very complicate ...
There certainly exist a love and hate relationship between blacks and white.
It is complicate because you know whites are racist.When they treat you mosty well, but then when you try to apply for a job , u could be discriminated and not get that job you deserve because of the color of your skin.
There is no black or white neighbhoods but there is clearly an unfair division of wealth.So the poor(mostly people of color) live , practically in your backyard.
You go to shantytowns there is clearly a majority of mestizos , mulatos , morenos, and black and you see some whites living there.
There is no black or white gangs but there are gangs everywhere and the members of the gangs come from all range of colors ,some are white.
Poor people and rich people cant live without each other ,because the rich is so addicted to carnaval and the black and mestizos dream of three days in a year when they will dress up and kings and queens and mother africa will be celabrated , those days everybody black mestizos and white get thier cornrows going , white try to look as black as they can , because they become suddenly proud of their african heritage.
Brasil is a very unique country in that sense.
I doubt a brasilian will ever discriminate a black american ,. they have an incredible admiration for the people and the culture.
You have to realize that most immigrants that come here .They are from regions of Brasil that are very backward.Deep country mostly.
These are Small town people with no education that mostly come here to do minial jobs.
They come because they have nothing there.If they had stayed they would end up dying of starvation and funny that most of them are discriminated there.
So they come and try to adapt to the custom of white majority and they do that because they dream that in doing so ,they will wake up white.Women dye their hair blonde it is all despair.
But reality is .They know that in spite of them dreaming of being white Americans .they will always s live a margen of society here. The white americans hardly want ot associate with them.
Because America is a very hard country racial issues here is based in hate.
Then there is a group of brasilians that are part of a certain class and they come here to finnish studies and go back without not even considering to be here.
going back to the issue of racism in Brasil.
is it hard to deal with it , when you are black and your grandmother is a portuguese or so forth. Or you are "white" but your grandmother is black.You sister is seen as white , and you are seen as mulatto , and your mom or father looks as dark as any dark african...it is very confusing.
Then you have African holidays being celebrated.Days in which many people of all colors will go to African Mythology. Religion for many is a mix of African and Christian religion.
This form of racism is called colorism, and it is a problem all over latin america.
justice

San Marino, CA

#130 Apr 15, 2008
lala wrote:
<quoted text>
You are mistaken...not true at all.
At least for what i know and grew up believing AA;s Are the coolest people living in America.
Look at how cool the culture is.What we need to learn is not give enphasis to the negative aspect ,that do exist in every culture , and pay more attention to the accomplishments that AA's have achieved.
I dont know of any racial or ethnic or religious group that are 100% percent free of bad karma., as i call.
I know some really lazy people and they are not blacks .
she is not mistaken and you know it. they speak with CAPITOL HATERED towards blacks, they are even attacking and killing blacks out here in cali, so don't understand why you are denying it. do get starting on mexico's black heritage due to SLAVERY! which was there before here.
justice

San Marino, CA

#131 Apr 15, 2008
lala wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting..with all my respects...I think Blacks in america are very worried about skin shade...is my statement right or wrong?
I still have not had the opportunity of getting to know American Blacks.
All i know about the group is through news and tv.
I wish i could have Black american friends. Exchange cultural experiences etc...
Races in American are to divided. I also sense that Blacks in the Usa ,appear to not be open to people;s of color coming form other countries.
I met this two black american women at the university and i started a conversation and as time went by i would see them on campus at i would say hi and the would respond. Then one day i was finally able to engage in conversation with them and , as went on talking. They soon started llaughing and saying stuff in english i could not understand.
I felt very unconfortable and i asked them why they were laughing..and they told me t, that they were laughing because I talked like a "White girl"
Well... i did not know what to say and i started crying...i told them they were being mean to me...there were other experiences on campus..like parties in the international building...and most of the people there are Latins. Africans , europeans .
Africans somehow always mingle well with latins on campus.
Black american parties are all black american...some white people are invited.
Asian parties ..you see lots of asians but people of other nationality and races too.
Is it possible that one of the reasons peoples of different groups here stay away from another because they, in a way or another dont feel welcomed?
blackpeople are not worried about skin color; if anything it's SAFETY!!! from being attacked,which is why alot of blackpeople carry weapons for protection and i don't blame them one bit. black people don't feeling welcome here and havent for the last 400 years. learn the history here and maybe you will have a better understanding of what' gone and continues to go on here.

Level 5

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#132 Apr 15, 2008
lala wrote:
<quoted text>
actually there is feeling of internal pride growing up in knowing that you are braziian first... then being part of this national rainbow of color.
One need to go to Brasil to understand.
Everywhere you go you see your people's of all skin shade. Only in the southern part of the country you see less racial mix...The Germans the polish , the and some other white people mostly settled there.
"A pobreza nao tem cor". "Poverty has no color" at least in Brasil.
Whites and blacks are both very mistreated if they are poor.
But then poor "whites" and "blacks" get along very well .
If you have money be you, white or black you are just a rich person.
u
I remember a very interesting experience i had , not long ago when i came to the usa to study.
I was at this gym and trough the window the sun reflected on my skin.
Without me thinking , i mentioned to the woman, that by the way, was white,using the machine next to me; Wow! look how beautiful my skin look ....this beautiful shade of Bronze ...and the sun reflecting on it...lt looked poetically beautiful .
To be honest i did not say that asking for her approval or disapproval. This is the way i felt and feel ...Beleza esta nos olhos dos que veem".
I also love my hair so so much...It is very beautiful .
I grew up listening to my daddy saying how pretty i was. And my mom , treating me liking i was this doll and , and neighbors being loving people.
So nowadays if somebody in this country or anywhere try to say anything mean to me about my race or my Latin african portuguese ways ...i think they are very unhappy people.
People of dark skin color a so beautiful and take longer to show age...and that is a plus...:)
I agree that people in Brazil are more open toward differences in skin color as are Venezuelans. But you can't put all of Latin America in the same bag. Colombians can be very racists against Blacks and so can Argentinans...

Level 5

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#133 Apr 15, 2008
REMANENTE wrote:
<quoted text>
I KNOW IT WAS BARBARIC, I M saying the way of dealing with race was different, after abolition race mixing was comon and there was no segregation, there was other way of segregation thoug, the one provoked ,by class and poberty, amerindians and blacks ended up in the lower of society and find it very still nowadays to go upwards.
Thats why I think it ended up being a classist problem, and leadin to the problem called colorism.
There was no institutionalized segregation but there was a defacto segregation. And eventually blacks find themselves grouped together living in slums. Do you think it's a coincidence that the Blacks and Amerindians end up at the lower teir of soceity. And one of the things to take into consideration that makes for for some of the difference is that Spaniards came mostly as soldiers without women unlike their english counter parts, many who came as pilgrims with their families. European women in Latin America had been scarce since the end of the 1800's which saw new waves of immigration. So for the for most there was no alternative but to mix the with the natives and blacks etc. But nevertheless in the end they held the purity of their european Blood in high esteem and made sure the wealth and power was kept among the whitest. Just a glance at Latin America today shows this to still be true. Just look at the people portrayed in Univision in telenovelas etc. It's always showing the white elite and not repsentative of the average mexican. I'm afraid that is blatant racism.

Since: Mar 08

United States

#134 Apr 15, 2008
Remanente wrote:
<quoted text>
where have I expresed I don't like black people??
I'am black, I am uruguayan, and I've come to argentina to university. and I've entered this forum to give a view as an afro latino and to know the view Of african americans about issues that concern the hispanic community in the US.
Oh,I'm sorry.I mistook you for another poster that was from Argentina who said he/she hates black people,you know,the typical racist crap.How is Argentina towards black people?I heard it was kind of racist,but I want to know the truth,not rumors.
lala

United States

#135 Apr 15, 2008
justice wrote:
<quoted text>
she is not mistaken and you know it. they speak with CAPITOL HATERED towards blacks, they are even attacking and killing blacks out here in cali, so don't understand why you are denying it. do get starting on mexico's black heritage due to SLAVERY! which was there before here.
You could be right...
Unfortunately i do not know much about Mexicans living here.
If this is what you say and have experienced i have to believe you.
It is all very sad...Mexicans living here are so mistreated.
They should not be lashing out their anger on people that have been here for hundred of years..

Level 5

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#136 Apr 15, 2008
Remanente wrote:

"where have I expresed I don't like black people??
I'am black, I am uruguayan, and I've come to argentina to university. and I've entered this forum to give a view as an afro latino and to know the view Of african americans about issues that concern the hispanic community in the US. "

Ahh ok I missed that. Yeah I figured you weren't a white argentinian from the things you said. I wonder how you like Argentina?
REMANENTE

Buenos Aires, Argentina

#137 Apr 15, 2008
tigress aka Tiger wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh,I'm sorry.I mistook you for another poster that was from Argentina who said he/she hates black people,you know,the typical racist crap.How is Argentina towards black people?I heard it was kind of racist,but I want to know the truth,not rumors.
Black history in argentina is something really dark and complicated:
There was a government nowadays called "la generacion del '80" (the generation of the 1880). This was an anglofile group of intelectuals that seize power in 1860, they organize argentina as a nation-state, they make the first constitution and organize the institutions.
They, however though of everithing previous to them as barbaric, this means all of what was inherited by the spanish empire, the amerindians and black slaves.
For that aim they have a really genocidal politics:
most the aboriginals that remained in the country,in the patagonia where exterminated in the "campaign of the dessert" argentinians in the front lines of that militar expeditions where mostly black.
And black males where forced to fight an impopular war against paraguay, in wich the 95% of the population of that country was killed, and argentina lost most of that army of black people and the paraguayan population was mostly from guarani origin.
there was also a yellow fever epidemy where lots of poor people (lots of them black families) died, and the government did nothing to help them.
by 1885 the cathegory "black" was erased from the census. and the remains of black population in agentina rushed to uruguay or where absorbed by the european immigratory waves.
Black people where almost exterminated in just 50 years.
all of this has been investigated by historic revisionists since the end of the last militar dictatorship.
Nowadays there are few black people in argentina african immigrants mostly from cabo verde, senegal and costa de marfil (I dont know how to traduce that) very few 1.365 acording to the 2001 census and they are treated as all poor imigrant groups (argentineans do not treat any immigrant group warmly, just ask peruveans!).
Personally I have been very well treated here my university the UBA is higly reyective towards race discrimination, as they percive it as a retun to dictatorship.
lala

United States

#138 Apr 15, 2008
Garrig wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that people in Brazil are more open toward differences in skin color as are Venezuelans. But you can't put all of Latin America in the same bag. Colombians can be very racists against Blacks and so can Argentinans...
I ,in no way had the pretense of describing the way Latin Societies in general deal with Race issues.
I wrote about what i know well...and it is Brazil.
I hear Argentine to be a very Racist Country.must probably be the legacy left by the Spanish Colonizer.
I have met and befriended both Argentinians and Colombians . They were part of an alternative community doing some work with Native brasilian indians in the Amazonas. So ,they were probably more open them the everyday Argentinians.

I know of Colombia but not enough to come here and say much about it.

The only thing i know is that there are more descendent of Africans living there them they, want to admit. It is very weird to be talking to somebody that look so ,Non white, and they start taking about how German blooded they are.

I feel sorry for the Mexican people because they live under so much stress .having to cross the border to come here and once here they work almost like slaves did .And they like Blacks and other minorities , are so visible as people , because of their racial features and stuff. So they can not easily hide and try to pass as not being mexicans..
justmeeee

Brookfield, WI

#139 Apr 15, 2008
Here is an article from the March 26, 2008 edition of the LA Times that discusses how Mexican street gang members have targeted blacks. Black people are being beaten, shot, and having their homes firebombed by Mexicans. Here is the article:

Ralph 'Swifty' Flores was convicted last year of killing four people. The case marks the end of a violent chapter for the city.

By Sam Quinones, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
March 26, 2008
A jury Tuesday voted for the death penalty for an Azusa gang member who took part in a crime wave that rocked the tranquil San Gabriel Valley city in the early part of the decade.

Ralph "Swifty" Flores, 26, sat stoically as a clerk read the verdict in Los Angeles County Superior Court.

Flores -- who had grown a mustache over the gang tattoo "Azusa 13" inked below his nose -- was convicted last year of killing four people.

For Azusa, the case marks the end to a violent chapter in which a handful of gang members called the "trigger clique" terrorized the town with a series of shootings, killings, robberies and hate crimes targeting blacks.

Their rampage lasted from 1999 to 2004.

Besides Flores, seven other Azusa 13 gang members were convicted of the crimes and sentenced to lengthy prison terms -- five of them in one 2004 trial.

"It was a violent time for the city," said Sgt. Mike Bertelsen, Azusa's gang expert. "We were having a murder a month at the end of 2002."

What brought this violent period to an end "was a combination of citizens, the clergy, City Council and police all working together," said City Manager Francis Delach. "I think that had a big impact."

Azusa's experience shows how a few gang members following directives from the Mexican Mafia prison gang can become a public policy issue, scaring residents while taxing the budget and police resources of an otherwise peaceful town.

For more than 15 years, the Mexican Mafia prison gang has ordered some Southern California street gangs to "tax" drug dealers and funnel the proceeds to gang members. In some areas, Mexican Mafia members have ordered street gangs to attack blacks.

Directives from the prison gang "make their way out to the street. People on the street want to make a name for themselves," said Azusa Police Capt. Sam Gonzalez.

Two Mexican Mafia associates -- Gabriel "Downer" Aguilar and Robert "Thumper" Ramirez -- were paroled to Azusa in early 2002 and allegedly began organizing the gang to collect from local drug dealers.

Azusa police say both men were acting on authority of Jacques "Jacko" Padilla, the Mexican Mafia member reputed to control Azusa gangs and drug-dealing from his maximum-security cell.

For a time, Aguilar lived on a tier with Padilla at Pelican Bay State Prison, enhancing his reputation on Azusa streets, say police and prison officials.

The results were felt quickly in this quiet working-class town of 47,000. After only a couple of homicides a year, Azusa saw six in 2002.

Hate crimes spiked to 17 in 2000 and fell to nine in 2001, including three firebombings of homes of African Americans.

Most of the hate crimes were attributed to Azusa 13, whose members would drive by and shoot into apartments where blacks lived.

Azusa's population is only 3% black. "There were occasional sporadic hate crimes before that, but nowhere near this number and to this extreme," Gonzalez said.

In the 2004 trial of Aguilar, Ramirez and three others, an Azusa 13 gang member named Eduardo Caballo testified that the gang would routinely go "hunting" black people.

He testified that one night in September 2002, finding no black men to shoot, they shot 49-year-old Nadine Nowlin, a black woman standing outside her apartment. Nowlin lived but lost her spleen and later testified in the case.

to The Times now!

Since: Mar 08

United States

#140 Apr 15, 2008
REMANENTE wrote:
<quoted text>
Black history in argentina is something really dark and complicated:
There was a government nowadays called "la generacion del '80" (the generation of the 1880). This was an anglofile group of intelectuals that seize power in 1860, they organize argentina as a nation-state, they make the first constitution and organize the institutions.
They, however though of everithing previous to them as barbaric, this means all of what was inherited by the spanish empire, the amerindians and black slaves.
For that aim they have a really genocidal politics:
most the aboriginals that remained in the country,in the patagonia where exterminated in the "campaign of the dessert" argentinians in the front lines of that militar expeditions where mostly black.
And black males where forced to fight an impopular war against paraguay, in wich the 95% of the population of that country was killed, and argentina lost most of that army of black people and the paraguayan population was mostly from guarani origin.
there was also a yellow fever epidemy where lots of poor people (lots of them black families) died, and the government did nothing to help them.
by 1885 the cathegory "black" was erased from the census. and the remains of black population in agentina rushed to uruguay or where absorbed by the european immigratory waves.
Black people where almost exterminated in just 50 years.
all of this has been investigated by historic revisionists since the end of the last militar dictatorship.
Nowadays there are few black people in argentina african immigrants mostly from cabo verde, senegal and costa de marfil (I dont know how to traduce that) very few 1.365 acording to the 2001 census and they are treated as all poor imigrant groups (argentineans do not treat any immigrant group warmly, just ask peruveans!).
Personally I have been very well treated here my university the UBA is higly reyective towards race discrimination, as they percive it as a retun to dictatorship.
If the black males died in war,what happened to the black females?
lala

United States

#141 Apr 15, 2008
REMANENTE wrote:
<quoted text>
Black history in argentina is something really dark and complicated:
There was a government nowadays called "la generacion del '80" (the generation of the 1880). This was an anglofile group of intelectuals that seize power in 1860, they organize argentina as a nation-state, they make the first constitution and organize the institutions.
They, however though of everithing previous to them as barbaric, this means all of what was inherited by the spanish empire, the amerindians and black slaves.
For that aim they have a really genocidal politics:

most the aboriginals that remained in the country,in the patagonia where exterminated in the "campaign of the dessert" argentinians in the front lines of that militar expeditions where mostly black.
And black males where forced to fight an impopular war against paraguay, in wich the 95% of the population of that country was killed, and argentina lost most of that army of black people and the paraguayan population was mostly from guarani origin.
there was also a yellow fever epidemy where lots of poor people (lots of them black families) died, and the government did nothing to help them.
by 1885 the cathegory "black" was erased from the census. and the remains of black population in agentina rushed to uruguay or where absorbed by the european immigratory waves.
Black people where almost exterminated in just 50 years.
all of this has been investigated by historic revisionists since the end of the last militar dictatorship.
Nowadays there are few black people in argentina african immigrants mostly from cabo verde, senegal and costa de marfil (I dont know how to traduce that) very few 1.365 acording to the 2001 census and they are treated as all poor imigrant groups (argentineans do not treat any immigrant group warmly, just ask peruveans!).
Personally I have been very well treated here my university the UBA is higly reyective towards race discrimination, as they percive it as a retun to dictatorship.
Wow!...
I did not know that part of Argentina's History.

Thanks so much

I am so excited to be part of this forum, able to exchange ideas with a variety of people about issues that is so important to all of us.
So much to learn...
Nebet Nefiru

New York, NY

#142 Apr 15, 2008
I could be wrong but i think latinos have always been racist. It is not so much as calling you a ni*$ to your face or blatant discrimination, its more like, oh little negrito/prieto and all that crap. not to mention their not so subtle way of letting you know that they think black features are unattractive.

in latin america today, where more blacks live than here in the usa. black people are still bein treated pretty badly. and even here many afro latinos are in the dark, many of them are in blatant denial of their african roots. I see this so much from Dominicans, Panamians, etc.

Hanging out with black people and having a black lover or enjoying salsa, cumbia, merengue doesn't change the fact that in latin culture, blackness is looked down on. Go to any spanish resto/ store and see if you don't get overlooked and to them its 10o percent normal to them. thats whats so sad about it.
REMANENTE

Buenos Aires, Argentina

#144 Apr 15, 2008
tigress aka Tiger wrote:
<quoted text>
If the black males died in war,what happened to the black females?
a part of them died in the yellow fever epidemy with their remainig families, some others rushed to uruguay where there where some not very numerous black comunities (they realised something was no rigth when their husband and brothers just did not returned). and the blacks who remained I think just mixed with the mestizo rural population. and you have to cosider, that before that those who come back from war bring their wounds and infections with them to their comunities. That was not a long time from the abolition of slavery so they still remained as poor, and do not have acces to medicine or so and the gobernment did nothing to help them (and historians re begining to belibe that was the idea)

“Concrete Rose”

Since: Dec 07

St Louis, MO

#145 Apr 15, 2008
King Ahzi wrote:
Mexicans are lazier. All those mexicans on the side of the srteet are HOMELESS and i don`t look at them in any higher regars than Tyrone pushing the grocery basket on crack. They have been crossing the border since the America became a nation and thier educaational, economical gameplan still is not in tact. I`m half Afro-Latino ya`ll and i can`t respect a community of 48 million and 20 million are illegal. Even though i do have Latin blood in me, i`m a proud blackman and it will always be that way. BTW. I think that`s it`s hillarious that any MEXICAN can have the webbos to talk about slavery. They prohesised how thier whole civilization was going to get run through by the spainiards. Not only did they get done first, they got done the worst and raped, brainwashed than any other African American or Afro-Latino. The Afro-Latinos are the main reason why thier still even a popultion of Native west indians today.
A message by King Ahzi for all the hating side busters....."Pare o odiar nos meus povos"
Mexicans are brain-washed..most of them look like Native Americans but are convinced that they are Spanish..
REMANENTE

Buenos Aires, Argentina

#146 Apr 15, 2008
lala wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow!...
I did not know that part of Argentina's History.
Thanks so much
I am so excited to be part of this forum, able to exchange ideas with a variety of people about issues that is so important to all of us.
So much to learn...
I'ts hard but you should look information about that part of history if you are interested, you could find details yourself,my perents tell me some of those things when I was younger but ive just got the general idea when I asked my argentinean history profesor about it, I think it was dificult for him to tell that things to a black boy, but he explained me the ideologies of these generatio of the '80 goberment and gave me all the facts and the names and the years wich i cant remember now.
REMANENTE

Buenos Aires, Argentina

#147 Apr 15, 2008
Garrig wrote:
Remanente wrote:
"where have I expresed I don't like black people??
I'am black, I am uruguayan, and I've come to argentina to university. and I've entered this forum to give a view as an afro latino and to know the view Of african americans about issues that concern the hispanic community in the US. "
Ahh ok I missed that. Yeah I figured you weren't a white argentinian from the things you said. I wonder how you like Argentina?
I come here to study history in the UBA (universidad de buenos aires) the most prestigious public university in the country, its quite leftist (latin american stile of left) racism, clasism and xenophobe are rejected and considered a return to militar dictatoship. people here just treat me like all the rest and by the way they are getting usd to see black people in the street some immigrants are coming direct from africa mostly from senegal and cabo verde.

“The Ah-Nizzle”

Level 2

Since: Nov 07

Los Angeles

#148 Apr 16, 2008
Michelle Kia wrote:
<quoted text>
Mexicans are brain-washed..most of them look like Native Americans but are convinced that they are Spanish..
LMAO. They belive that junk to the core

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

African-American Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Why do black people hate gospel music? (Jul '08) 3 min shedoesyoga 21
Slave of the year award 4 min cali roze 5
Trashiest looking mudshark I've ever seen arres... 5 min Keepin It Real 17
Science: "White women DISGUSTED by black men" 8 min Ben 3
White people stole from everyone in history wit... (Feb '12) 8 min cali roze 193
Trump ~ 100* Days ~ Major Accomplishments? 13 min no job for redneck 38
Why do so many whites fear blacks? 14 min Slave Repatriator 79
Negro behavior in public places 23 min Keepin It Real 134
What African Americans really are 3 hr Keepin It Real 61
More from around the web