Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash...

Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes

There are 17552 comments on the NBC Chicago story from Jan 7, 2013, titled Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes. In it, NBC Chicago reports that:

Leaders of several Chicago-area African American churches on Monday urged state lawmakers to vote against pending legislation that would allow same-sex marriage in Illinois.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at NBC Chicago.

lides

“No Headline available”

Level 2

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#18080 Mar 17, 2014
Moulinyan Parmesian wrote:
Uhh, Clemm?
The other sex is excluded in a SAME sex marriage.
Of course, freedom wins when one can make their own choices.

That said, you aren't really in favor of freedom, at least for those with whom you disagree.
Jorja Fox

Lovingston, VA

#18081 Mar 17, 2014
a campaign against homosexuality by certain church fathers, among them Augustine (a rather nasty piece of work himself, the first known zealous advocate of forced conversions), and Clement, a man who mistakenly associated homosexuality with a form of child slavery in which male children were often sold into slavery as prostitutes. These two men and others like them began to associate homosexuality not just with unsavory animal practices, but with other practices they didn’t happen to like, such as paganism, or pederastry, etc.
The man who took this ball and ran with it was “Saint” John Chrysostom, who was the first church father who can clearly be shown to object to homosexuality based on the gender of its participants, not based just on procreative intent, or based on the ages of those involved, or whether the participants were pagans. Yet his theology was so thoroughly inconsistent that he did not have much direct influence on subsequent theology.
While the theology of homosexuality of these men was insistent, it wasn’t to become influential for a long time. The reason is simple – homosexuality was so common in this period, and practiced so openly, that the public at large regarded these doctrines as a bit extreme, just like the call to celibacy outside of strictly procreative sex as was advocated by many of these same church fathers.
Homosexuality continued to be practiced openly and without much restraint up through the 11th century. Throughout the middle ages, not only did the open practice of homosexuality continue, but it flourished in the monasteries of the time. Many of the priests and abbots not only left us literature celebrating their gay lovers, but some of the poetry they left us was baldy erotic
That homosexual sex was condemned by Leviticus did not seem to matter to the clerics of this period. They considered the Levitical proscription to fall in the same category as the rest of the vast corpus of Levitical proscriptions: they were abolished, along with the requirement for animal sacrifice, by the atonement of Jesus.
The dawn of the 12th century brought with it an increasing fascination on order and uniformity. There was increasing involvement by the church in the affairs of state, and vice versa, combined with a longing for the “good old days” of what the late Middle Age peoples believed the Roman Empire to have been.
To see that the lawlessness of the countryside and the order of the old Roman Empire was restored, both church and state began cooperation with each other to strengthen each other’s institutions. Increasingly, the line between church and state was blurred. This increasing emphasis on order and uniformity brought with it an explosion in the amount of legislation of all sorts. It was inevitable, then, that with the involvement of the church, sexual mores would find increased regulation as the result of the tide of regulation.
Of course, this led to all kinds of repression. The first to feel the repression were the Jews and Muslims of Europe, who found themselves living in a land that was increasingly hostile to their presence. While regulations were often intended to protect the minorities from popular uprisings against them, they often had the opposite effect, in laying down regulations on behavior that were intended to address the popular grievances against them. These regulations came to include “sodomites” and other sexual minorities, but because the laws regulated behavior, they often became the source of repression, more than protection.
The rise of intolerance did not subside but as the years ticked by it actually increased, resulting in the witchhunts in France, which depopulated whole regions of that country, and the Spanish Inquisition, which continued it’s harsh repression into the 17th century. While the Spanish Inquisition was without a doubt the harshest, the Inquisition itself was a church-wide phenomenon whose harshly repressive hand was felt throughout the Catholic world.
Jorja Fox

Lovingston, VA

#18082 Mar 17, 2014
The Muslims and Jews were, of course, not the only ones to feel the heavy hand of the Inquisition. Sexual minorities were particular targets, as the pressure to conform increased. Social critics began to single out gay people for special persecution. Peter Cantor (d. 1197) was the first to argue that Romans 1:26-27 referred specifically to gay people. The term “sodomy” came, for the first time and against all theological precedent, to refer exclusively to homosexual sex.
At Cantor’s urging, the Lateran III Council of 1179 became the first to rule specifically on homosexual acts, along with moneylending, heresy, as well as the arch-heresies of Judaism and Islam. Even though the wording of the regulations on sex meant to punish all non-procreative sex, it was eventually construed, particularly in later centuries, as referring to homosexual sex specifically. It passed into the permanent collections of canon law in the following century, and became the basis of the Catholic ban on homosexuality.
It should be obvious by now that homophobia has its origins in ignorance. It is spread by ignorance, by repression, social conservatism and the alliance of church and state. It is self-evident that education leads to an understanding of the truth and that truth itself leads to freedom.
The history of homophobia in western culture is instructive. It tells us how, when we make untested assumptions, we can easily be led into error that can be very destructive, as homophobia has been. It shows us that the path to liberation isn’t through religious indoctrination but through reason and logic.
In a nation that claims to value freedom, let us learn from this lesson from the past. Let us throw off our chains of superstition and ignorance, and embrace the truth that our forebearers knew two millenia ago: homosexuals are a normal part of life and should be tolerated, accepted and integrated into every facet of culture without prejudice or ignorance.
https://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09...

Clearly the "church" made some bad decisions all in order to control the behavior and the mind of it's "followers."

lides

“No Headline available”

Level 2

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#18085 Mar 17, 2014
Liberals R Defective wrote:
Radical queer activists like you, have the right to spout your warped, sick propaganda. But that's where it ends, Nancy. No matter what your bought and paid for black robed tyrants say. Nature's law trumps man's law every time.
There is nothing radical or warped about demanding the enforcement of the US Constitution and its guarantee of equal protection of the law for all.

We don't live by natural law, we live by man's law, which is administered by the courts. If you wish to change those laws, you had better grow up and learn to offer an intelligent and factually supported argument that will advance your position. If not, you are doomed to look like an idiot spouting off about natural law in online forums.

Congratulations, you aren't terribly bright.

Level 1

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#18086 Mar 17, 2014
Liberals R Defective wrote:
<quoted text>Radical queer activists like you, have the right to spout your warped, sick propaganda. But that's where it ends, Nancy. No matter what your bought and paid for black robed tyrants say. Nature's law trumps man's law every time.
Hate the Constitution much? Move to Uganda.

“Common sense prevails.”

Since: Mar 14

3rd rock from the sun.

#18088 Mar 18, 2014
A Conservative in Ann Arb wrote:
Homosexuals are sick in the head. They need to be incarcerated like the mental nutcases that they are.
Europe is a place filled with sickness and sick people. America is still fighting against it, but sicko judges are not cooperating.
Then the sicko homosexuals are actualling using the Negro Civil Rights struggle as their own struggle.
Negros may be inferior and violent animals, but at least most of them know that lesbianism, homosexuality, transgendered and the other sick things in between are wrong.
Shirley Phelps Roper, is that you?

“Common sense prevails.”

Since: Mar 14

3rd rock from the sun.

#18089 Mar 18, 2014
Liberals R Defective wrote:
<quoted text>Radical queer activists like you, have the right to spout your warped, sick propaganda. But that's where it ends, Nancy. No matter what your bought and paid for black robed tyrants say. Nature's law trumps man's law every time.
It would appear that you don't know jack squat about the natural world or the laws of nature.

lides

“No Headline available”

Level 2

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#18092 Mar 18, 2014
Liberals R Defective wrote:
Nowhere in the Constitution does it declare equal rights for homosexuals. No matter how hard you stomp your dainty feet and bay at the moon, there's no provision for rump rangers in our founding documents. In fact, in those days, perverts like you would be imprisoned.
Dear dumb person, are homosexuals people, yes or no?
Liberals R Defective wrote:
Perhaps YOU should "grow up" and investigate your mental condition, then reach out for help. The desire to be sodomized by another man isn't sane.
Perhaps you should grow up and realize that your opinion is not a medical diagnosis.

Can you find any medical, scientific, or academic organization that supports your conclusion, or are you just reaffirming that you are a bigot and an idiot?
Xavier Breath

Brooklyn, NY

#18093 Mar 18, 2014
Liberals R Defective wrote:
<quoted text>Nowhere in the Constitution does it declare equal rights for homosexuals. No matter how hard you stomp your dainty feet and bay at the moon, there's no provision for rump rangers in our founding documents. In fact, in those days, perverts like you would be imprisoned.
Perhaps YOU should "grow up" and investigate your mental condition, then reach out for help. The desire to be sodomized by another man isn't sane.
Where does the Constitution declare rights are for heterosexuals only? No where.
No wonder you fools lose in court.

“Crusading Fundies r hilarious!”

Level 1

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#18094 Mar 18, 2014
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Same sex marriage is sex segregation marriage by definition. Until Y2K, no written marriage law licensed sex segregation marriage. DOMA maintained the perfect affirmative action, diversity and integration of one man and one woman marriage.
Sex segregation marriage harms both men and women by setting a new standard of government approved sex segregation in marriage.
So many words to say absolutely nothing.

“Crusading Fundies r hilarious!”

Level 1

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#18095 Mar 18, 2014
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Why the obsession with race? Race has nothing to do with gender; race differences are unimportant and small but gender differences are so important they mean the survival of the human race and so great that in many languages even words have gender.
.
Back to this bullshyt I see. Hey Brian, you're on record saying you support civil unions for gay people. Explain to the room how a civil union of gay people doesn't affect the survival of the human race, yet the marriage of a gay couple does somehow magically affect the survival of the human race.

Come on village idiot. Using cause and effect, demonstrate the differences.

Waiting....

Waiting.....

Waiting....

Brian_G = moron

“Crusading Fundies r hilarious!”

Level 1

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#18096 Mar 18, 2014
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>X.B. continues to misunderstand the words she uses; same sex marriage means sex segregation marriage.
It means no such thing. Sex segregation marriage is nothing more that a talking point you have created. It means nothing. it's as stupid as all your other talking points.
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>
Before Y2K, all marriage law defined marriage as sex integrated, we have the perfect affirmative action and diversity of one man and one woman marriage.
There is no legislation ANYWHERE that defines marriages as "sex integrated". You lie.
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>
X.B. stands for segregation, prejudice, disunity and separatism; that's why most Americans want to keep marriage male/female.
You lie again. Most Americans support marriage equality.

Why do you lie so much Village Idiot? Your god detests liars.

“Crusading Fundies r hilarious!”

Level 1

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#18097 Mar 18, 2014
Brian_G wrote:
Separate is not equal; segregation is always voluntary for the group in power. Choosing segregation doesn't make it right. Perfect integration, diversity and affirmative action as one man and one woman marriage beats segregation no matter how you run and hide....
so many words to say absolutely nothing.

“Crusading Fundies r hilarious!”

Level 1

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#18098 Mar 18, 2014
Liberals R Defective wrote:
<quoted text>Radical queer activists like you, have the right to spout your warped, sick propaganda. But that's where it ends,
No princess, it ends with our full and equal representation. That's a guarantee to us from our Constitution. The Constitution trumps your imagined authority.
Liberals R Defective wrote:
<quoted text>
No matter what your bought and paid for black robed tyrants say.
And your proof of this buying and paying can be found where Sally?
Liberals R Defective wrote:
<quoted text>
Nature's law trumps man's law every time.
Nature doesn't have anything to do with marriage moron. Marriage is a man made institution, it has nothing to do with Nature. Do you attend a lot of rabbit marriages in your trailer park princess?

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#18099 Mar 18, 2014
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear dumb person, are homosexuals people, yes or no?
Are homosexuals men and women, yes or no?

If yes, then they should be treated like any other man or woman as it relates to marriage, the legally recognized union of husband and wife, valid in all fifty states and recognized by all fifty states.

lides

“No Headline available”

Level 2

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#18100 Mar 18, 2014
Pietro Armando wrote:
Are homosexuals men and women, yes or no?
Absolutely.
Pietro Armando wrote:
If yes, then they should be treated like any other man or woman as it relates to marriage, the legally recognized union of husband and wife, valid in all fifty states and recognized by all fifty states.
Pietro, you still seem to be lacking in the ability to articulate a compelling governmental interest served by limiting marriage to opposite sex couples that would render such a restriction constitutional, and render your argument relevant.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#18102 Mar 18, 2014
Jonah1 wrote:
Back to this bullshyt I see. Hey Brian, you're on record saying you support civil unions for gay people. Explain to the room how a civil union of gay people doesn't affect the survival of the human race, yet the marriage of a gay couple does somehow magically affect the survival of the human race.
I wrote: "[G]ender differences are so important they mean the survival of the human race and so great that in many languages even words have gender." Same sex marriage doesn't "magically affect the survival of the human race", gender differences do.

I've explained this before, gender differences are essential to survival, same sex marriage not.

.
Jonah1 wrote:
Come on village idiot. Using cause and effect, demonstrate the differences. Waiting.... Waiting..... Waiting.... Brian_G = moron
Try reading, if you were as good at insulting.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#18103 Mar 18, 2014
Jonah1 wrote:
...
Nature doesn't have anything to do with marriage moron. Marriage is a man made institution, it has nothing to do with Nature. Do you attend a lot of rabbit marriages in your trailer park princess?
Natural law, or the law of nature (Latin: lex naturalis), is a system of law that is determined by nature, and so is universal. Classically, natural law refers to the use of reason to analyze human nature — both social and personal — and deduce binding rules of moral behavior from it. Natural law is often contrasted with the positive law of a given political community, society, or state. In legal theory, on the other hand, the interpretation of positive law requires some reference to natural law. On this understanding of natural law, natural law can be invoked to criticize judicial decisions about what the law says but not to criticize the best interpretation of the law itself. Some scholars use natural law synonymously with natural justice or natural right (Latin ius naturale), while others distinguish between natural law and natural right.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Level 1

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#18104 Mar 18, 2014
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Natural law, or the law of nature ...
Actually, natural law was created by apologists for religion to cloak their moral beliefs in pseudo-scientific rhetoric.

lides

“No Headline available”

Level 2

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#18105 Mar 18, 2014
Brian_G wrote:
Natural law, or the law of nature (Latin: lex naturalis), is a system of law that is determined by nature, and so is universal. Classically, natural law refers to the use of reason to analyze human nature — both social and personal — and deduce binding rules of moral behavior from it. Natural law is often contrasted with the positive law of a given political community, society, or state. In legal theory, on the other hand, the interpretation of positive law requires some reference to natural law. On this understanding of natural law, natural law can be invoked to criticize judicial decisions about what the law says but not to criticize the best interpretation of the law itself. Some scholars use natural law synonymously with natural justice or natural right (Latin ius naturale), while others distinguish between natural law and natural right.
Brian, idiots with no valid argument cite natural law. Were the world as you assert, there would be no need of man made law, nor would there be any need for distinct countries and towns with separate jurisdiction and different laws.

Some of us live in the real world, in stead of whatever lala-land exists inside your head. In the real world, we have laws written by man, enacted by legislatures, and signed into law by executives. In the United States, the US Constitution is the highest law of the land, and it demands that states provide all persons within their jurisdiction equal protection of the laws. Marriage is one such protection of the law in every state in the union, and you have long proven too dumb to offer any reason why same sex couples should be denied equal protection of the law to marry.

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