Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash...

Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes

There are 17554 comments on the NBC Chicago story from Jan 7, 2013, titled Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes. In it, NBC Chicago reports that:

Leaders of several Chicago-area African American churches on Monday urged state lawmakers to vote against pending legislation that would allow same-sex marriage in Illinois.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at NBC Chicago.

Janitor

Vancouver, WA

#10945 Oct 4, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
While you and I understand not all religious scholars, leaders, and believers are anti-gay, many other religious organizations including the Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, etc. continue to promote anti-gay prejudice and laws. As long as the major groups continue to claim the prejudice they promote is the will of God, many will continue to accept their position as fact.
I agree. And, unfortunately, no amount of legislation will change attitudes and even if all the religious leaders in the country suddenly embraced the idea of homosexuality and same sex marriage as acceptable in modern society, it would not make any difference. It would simply give more people, more reasons to hate Christians. And, they have plenty of reasons, or excuses, to do that now. As I said, some denominations have begun to accept gays and plenty of people who don't believe in God and don't like church anymore than they do gays will continue to think negatively about both.

Level 1

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#10948 Oct 4, 2013
Dixieland wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, Because you had 1 more queer than our side had normal people in a 5-4 vote.
You call yourself normal? Normal people could care less if queer folk get married or not. Your obsession with the private lives of others is sick. A good therapist could help you with your problem.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#10949 Oct 4, 2013
Janitor wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. And, unfortunately, no amount of legislation will change attitudes and even if all the religious leaders in the country suddenly embraced the idea of homosexuality and same sex marriage as acceptable in modern society, it would not make any difference. It would simply give more people, more reasons to hate Christians.
76% of Americans identify as Christians. I think you mean that it would simply give more Christians more reasons to hate homosexuals.
For the record, I don't hate anyone, I don't practice any religion and I think homosexuality is a birth defect.

Level 1

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#10950 Oct 4, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
76% of Americans identify as Christians. I think you mean that it would simply give more Christians more reasons to hate homosexuals.
For the record, I don't hate anyone, I don't practice any religion and I think homosexuality is a birth defect.
1. Many of those Christians have beloved family members who are LGBT people. Many chose to love rather than to judge.

2. Homosexuality is simply a variation which occurs to both a varying degree and percentage.

Level 7

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#10951 Oct 4, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
76% of Americans identify as Christians. I think you mean that it would simply give more Christians more reasons to hate homosexuals.
For the record, I don't hate anyone, I don't practice any religion and I think homosexuality is a birth defect.
Again, not all Christians single out gay people for punishment. Many accept them as they are, and many celebrate same sex marriages in their churches. This was going on long before the laws recognized their marriages. Even most American Catholics support marriage equality, despite the official opposition of the church.

Do we use the law to deny equal fundamental rights to anyone with a birth defect?

Is marriage restricted on the basis of birth defect?

No matter what your motivation, the results are the same. The prejudice and legal discrimination you promote result in needless suffering and death.
Neil An Blowme

Hoboken, NJ

#10952 Oct 4, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
They didn't, just part 3 and it was 5-4.
I suppose you think that means something?
Neil An Blowme

Hoboken, NJ

#10953 Oct 4, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
76% of Americans identify as Christians. I think you mean that it would simply give more Christians more reasons to hate homosexuals.
For the record, I don't hate anyone, I don't practice any religion and I think homosexuality is a birth defect.
What you think and reality are two very different things.

Ten years of impotence.... you must be REALLY pissed by now.

Aaaaaawwwwwww..........

Level 7

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#10954 Oct 4, 2013
Janitor wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. And, unfortunately, no amount of legislation will change attitudes and even if all the religious leaders in the country suddenly embraced the idea of homosexuality and same sex marriage as acceptable in modern society, it would not make any difference. It would simply give more people, more reasons to hate Christians. And, they have plenty of reasons, or excuses, to do that now. As I said, some denominations have begun to accept gays and plenty of people who don't believe in God and don't like church anymore than they do gays will continue to think negatively about both.
I think we agree many Christians accept gay people as they are, and understand adult relationships based on mutual love and respect are not a sin or violation of scripture. This has been the case throughout history at various times and places. The first same sex religious marriage ceremony I attended was in '74.

While I would agree no amount of legislation will change the attitudes of some, I would argue it will change the attitudes of many. Most importantly though, removing anti-gay laws will mean the government no longer teaches anti-gay prejudice, and no longer enshrines it in the law. And this is one of the problems for many opposed to equality. They understand that once the government no longer enshrines prejudice but actively prohibits it, they have no support for their prejudice beyond a handfull of mistranslated ancient verses that contradict the Golden Rule.

Laws that deny equal treatment, stigmatize those being denied. Such laws tell them and everyone else, they are worth less. This dehumanization translates to a wide variety and severity of harm, including abuse by others as well as self destructive behavior. Prejudice enshrined in the law causes needless suffering and death.

“Crusading Fundies r hilarious!”

Level 1

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#10955 Oct 4, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
and it was 5-4.
LOL!!! As if that means anything to anyone other than bigots!!!!!

Level 7

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#10956 Oct 4, 2013
Laws that deny equal treatment harm those denied:

Dr. Chris Beyrer, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Public Health: "We know for certain that lesbian and gay individuals suffer harm to their physical and psychological health, and to their relationships and quality of life, as result of the shame, isolation and stigma accrued from their social and legal disenfranchisement."

The American Psychological Association : "Prejudice and discrimination have social and personal impact." "The widespread prejudice, discrimination, and violence to which lesbians and gay men are often subjected are significant mental health concerns. Sexual prejudice, sexual orientation discrimination, and anti-gay violence are major sources of stress for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people. Although social support is crucial in coping with stress, anti-gay attitudes and discrimination may make it difficult for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people to find such support."

The Ca. Supreme Court: "While retention of the limitation of marriage to opposite-sex couples is not needed to preserve the rights and benefits of opposite-sex couples, the exclusion of same sex couples from the designation of marriage works a real and appreciable harm upon same-sex couples and their children." (p.117)

"It is important to note that being LGBT is not a risk factor in and of itself; however, the minority stressors that LGBT individual encounter - such as discrimination and harassment - are directly associated with suicidal behavior as well as indirectly with risk factors for suicide."
(American Association of Suicidology)
http://www.suicidology.org/c/document_library...

"Ideology assailants report that their crimes stem from their negative beliefs and attitudes about homosexuality that they perceive other people in the community share. They see themselves as enforcing social morals." (APA)

Hate crimes against gay people are the highest per person in the U.S. Attacks against gay people are more severe and violent than for other groups according to the FBI.

"The research, published in the January Pediatrics (Vol. 123, No. 1), found that LGB adults who reported high rates of parental rejection in their teens were 8.4 times more likely to report having attempted suicide, 5.9 times more likely to report high levels of depression, 3.4 times more likely to use illegal drugs, and 3.4 times more likely to have had unprotected sex than LGB peers who reported no or low levels of family rejection, reports the study team, headed by Caitlin Ryan, PhD, of San Francisco State University."

This is a short sample of the documentation which demonstrates anti-gay laws, social policies, and social support systems that deny equality perpetuate prejudice and discrimination that causes harm in a wide variety of ways. The resulting dehumanization and demonization is used to justify their behavior by those who bully, beat, torture, and kill, here and around the world. It also results in self destruction, both fast and slow. Prejudice causes needless suffering and death.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#10958 Oct 4, 2013
Neil An Blowme wrote:
<quoted text>
What you think and reality are two very different things.
Your reality and mine are two different things.
Janitor

Vancouver, WA

#10959 Oct 4, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
76% of Americans identify as Christians. I think you mean that it would simply give more Christians more reasons to hate homosexuals.
For the record, I don't hate anyone, I don't practice any religion and I think homosexuality is a birth defect.
That many Americans identify themselves as Christian because they live in the United States and it's the dominant religion. That proves absolutely nothing. The majority of the population in a country where the major religion is Muslim will claim to be that and so forth. And, as far as it goes, while Christians may believe homosexuality is a sin or an abomination, if they truly are Christians and follow the teachings of Jesus they would hate the sin not the sinner. I believe homosexuality is a product of a shift in the body chemistry, however I wouldn't go as far as to call it a birth "defect". Gays are just different and that doesn't mean they are any less perfect than straights.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#10960 Oct 4, 2013
Neil An Blowme wrote:
<quoted text>
Helloooooooooo..... Why do you think SCOTUS struck down DOMA?
Hellloooooooo.....the states still define marriage.

“Equality for ALL”

Level 2

Since: Jul 10

Massachusetts

#10961 Oct 4, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Hellloooooooo.....the states still define marriage.
And states are including same-sex marriages in their definitions which the feds recognize as valid and legal.

SO WHAT ARE YOU FIGHTING AGAINST!?!?

Level 7

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#10962 Oct 4, 2013
When states write their laws, for those laws to remain valid, they must comply with the constitution. It has been demonstrated restrictions on gender violate the 5th and 14th amendments.

"Proposition 8 is unconstitutional under both the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution."

"Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite-sex couples are superior to same-sex couples. Because California has no interest in discriminating against gay men and lesbians, and because Proposition 8 prevents California from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to provide marriages on an equal basis, the court concludes that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional."
http://www.afer.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/0...

Supreme Court: "The liberty protected by the Fifth Amendment's Due Process Clause contains within it the prohibition against denying to any person the equal protection of the laws. While the Fifth Amendment itself withdraws from the Government the power to degrade or demean in the way this law does, the equal protection guarantee of the Fourteenth Amendment makes that Fifth Amendment right all the more specific and all the better understood and preserved." (Windsor)

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#10963 Oct 4, 2013
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you also demand that every straight couple wishing to marry must support polygamy and incest, or be a hypocrite? You must be a barrel of fun at weddings.
First, it's opposite sex couples, not "straight. Second, no it is not hypocritical. Why would it be?
Can you formulate a logical reason to deny gay couples the right to marry, without the silly straw-man arguments?
Becha can't!
Can you formulate a logical reason to redefine marriage for same sex unions but no other alternative unions? Betcha can't.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#10964 Oct 4, 2013
DaveinMass wrote:
<quoted text>
And states are including same-sex marriages in their definitions which the feds recognize as valid and legal.
SO WHAT ARE YOU FIGHTING AGAINST!?!?
Not all states.....over thirty have chosen to retain the long standing legal, cultural, social, historical, and/or religious understanding of marriage as a union of husband and wife.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#10965 Oct 4, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
I think we agree many Christians accept gay people as they are, and understand adult relationships based on mutual love and respect are not a sin or violation of scripture. This has been the case throughout history at various times and places. The first same sex religious marriage ceremony I attended was in '74.
Sound like that could apply to other consenting adult relationships.
While I would agree no amount of legislation will change the attitudes of some, I would argue it will change the attitudes of many. Most importantly though, removing anti-gay laws will mean the government no longer teaches anti-gay prejudice, and no longer enshrines it in the law. And this is one of the problems for many opposed to equality. They understand that once the government no longer enshrines prejudice but actively prohibits it, they have no support for their prejudice beyond a handfull of mistranslated ancient verses that contradict the Golden Rule.
Again sounds like that could apply to other consenting adult relationships.
Laws that deny equal treatment, stigmatize those being denied. Such laws tell them and everyone else, they are worth less. This dehumanization translates to a wide variety and severity of harm, including abuse by others as well as self destructive behavior. Prejudice enshrined in the law causes needless suffering and death.
The trifecta!

“Equality for ALL”

Level 2

Since: Jul 10

Massachusetts

#10966 Oct 4, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
Not all states.....over thirty have chosen to retain the long standing legal, cultural, social, historical, and/or religious understanding of marriage as a union of husband and wife.
And in 1967, many states (20?) defined their marriage laws to exclude interracial couples. Was the Supreme Court wrong when it forced those states to rewrite those laws?

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#10967 Oct 4, 2013
DaveinMass wrote:
<quoted text>
And in 1967, many states (20?) defined their marriage laws to exclude interracial couples. Was the Supreme Court wrong when it forced those states to rewrite those laws?
And in the 1860's in NYC black men married white Irish, and Scottish, immigrant women. A hundred years before some of those state bans. Interracial marriage has existed in various parts of the country, at various times. SSM is a recent modern invention. The idea of a same sex marriage, was, and still is to many, pin intended, inconceivable.

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