Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash...

Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes

There are 17552 comments on the NBC Chicago story from Jan 7, 2013, titled Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes. In it, NBC Chicago reports that:

Leaders of several Chicago-area African American churches on Monday urged state lawmakers to vote against pending legislation that would allow same-sex marriage in Illinois.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at NBC Chicago.

“Equality for ALL”

Level 2

Since: Jul 10

Massachusetts

#10107 Sep 20, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
We are discussing a particular fundamental right which exists because the state chooses to recognize a specific relationship. You continue to try and lump all fundamental rights together to avoid addressing the question of why this specific one exists in the first place.
We are discussing a particular fundamental right which [edit out: "exists because"] the state chooses to recognize [edit out: "a specific relationship."][and add: "with certain rights and benefits."]

We are discussing a particular fundamental right which the state chooses to recognize with certain rights and benefits.

There, that's reflects what we are actually discussing.

Now, for a state to restrict who is eligible to receive these benefits granted to those exercising their fundamental marriage rights, a state needs a compelling state interest. So far none has been put forth to deny same-sex couples these state benefits.
Neil An Blowme

Hoboken, NJ

#10108 Sep 20, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
How many occultists operate hospitals, schools, or nursing homes?
<quoted text>
The idiot is you in thinking that. I pointed out that despite the "seperation of church and state", the "church" is interwoven throughout our society. But you rather fall back on your religiphobia and brilliant choice in forum nicknames to demonstrate your "superior intellect". I'm sure your Mommy is proud of the fine low standing individual you've become. If nothing else, you are entertaining.
My mommy?

Grow up, idiot.
Neil An Blowme

Hoboken, NJ

#10109 Sep 20, 2013
GrouchoMarxist wrote:
<quoted text>Speaking of lowered expectations,
....he raised six points.
When you come up with five more partially true deflections,
....you'll still be an idiot.
If you think ANY of those points means the USA is a Christian nation, you have bigger problems.

Level 7

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#10110 Sep 20, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
We are discussing a particular fundamental right which exists because the state chooses to recognize a specific relationship. You continue to try and lump all fundamental rights together to avoid addressing the question of why this specific one exists in the first place.
<quoted text>
In this case there must be a foundation for state recognition.
<quoted text>
It is only a "right", if recognized as such by a particular society.
<quoted text>
Only if I desire legal recognition.
<quoted text>
True, both are involved.
<quoted text>
It does provide a compelling state interest in the relationship.
<quoted text>
Neither gender is restricted, both are involved.
<quoted text>
In this case, the fundamental right involves state recognition, so yes there must be a benefit, or compelling reason, to the state.
<quoted text>
Individual right, not based on a relationship.
<quoted text>
So remove the restrictions, and state involvement.
<quoted text>
No gender is restricted, both are involved.
<quoted text>
As will those entering plural marriages, albeit w/o recognition.
Again, marriage is a fundamental right of the individual. Zablocki v. Redhail, 434 U.S. 374, 384 (1978):“The right to marry is of fundamental importance for all individuals.”

All fundamental rights exist because we are human. No other "because" is needed. Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1, 12 (1967):“The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.”

Requiring one of each gender is a restriction on gender. Casey, 505 U.S. 833, 851 (1992):“These matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.”

Your argument for restriction on gender still relies on the false assumption fundamental rights must provide some benefit to the government. Liberty is freedom from governmental control. LaFleur, 414 U.S. 632, 639-40 (1974):“This Court has long recognized that freedom of personal choice in matters of marriage and family life is one of the liberties protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.”

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#10111 Sep 20, 2013
Neil An Blowme wrote:
<quoted text>
My mommy?
Grow up, idiot.
Isn't he great ladies and gentlemen..... Let's have a round of applause for Mrs. Blowme's little boy Neil.

Level 7

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#10112 Sep 20, 2013
While fundamental rights come from being human, restrictions on those rights come from the government, but only when a compelling governmental interest can be demonstrated. Gender is not one of those interests.

First Circuit appeals court:

"Although the House Report is filled with encomia to heterosexual marriage, DOMA does not increase benefits to opposite-sex couples--whose marriages may in any event be childless, unstable or both--or explain how denying benefits to same-sex couples will reinforce heterosexual marriage. Certainly, the denial will not affect the gender choices of those seeking marriage. This is not merely a matter of poor fit of remedy to perceived problem, Lee Optical, 348 U.S. at 487-88; City of Cleburne, 473 U.S. at 446-50, but a lack of any demonstrated connection between DOMA's treatment of same-sex couples and its asserted goal of strengthening the bonds and benefits to society of heterosexual marriage."

http://www.ca1.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl...
Neil An Blowme

Hoboken, NJ

#10113 Sep 20, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't he great ladies and gentlemen..... Let's have a round of applause for Mrs. Blowme's little boy Neil.
Don't worry. You'll grow up one day. Stay in school.
HIV

United States

#10116 Sep 20, 2013
They should support gay marriages. The reason I say that is because they could make a small fortune charging half their congregation for weddings. I'm not even trying to be funny. I think the reason most Church leaders don't support gay marriages is because they're scared they bisexual lover will come out of the closet.
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#10117 Sep 20, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Right. <quoted text> It does not say it is Muslim God. Rights derived from God are universal and apply to all people everywhere. Right derived from men are subject to change based on who is ruling. The men had a Christian upbringing and were part of Christian culture even if they were not specifically Chrisitan. <quoted text> Either do you. You do not get to call wrong right. You do not get to redefine the meaning of marriage. There is no fundamental right to SSM. There is a right to marriage but that does not include SSM. It does not include pederasty, bestiality, incest, or any other perversion.
<quoted text>
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2013/06/104...
The Court refused to redefine marriage for the entire nation. The Court refused to "discover" a constitutional right to same-sex marriage.
<quoted text> DOMA was passed under Clinton.
http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/high-st...
One case concerns the federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), which defines marriage for the purposes of federal law. Passed by overwhelming majorities in both houses of Congress in 1996, DOMA was signed into law by President Bill Clinton. Congress passed DOMA to make explicitly clear what was known at the time of our country’s founding—that marriage is the union of one man and one woman.
scotus and several federal judges have declared ssm legally recognizable. private individuals don't get to declare what is legal and what is not. neither scotus nor those other federal judges redefined marriage or marriage laws. in your opinion, they may have, but legally speaking, they did not. and, as we all know, your opinion doesn't hold water when it comes to legalities.

good luck.
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#10118 Sep 20, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>So, you claim Christian wedding vendors must be forced to participate in same sex weddings because objecting isn't free speech? How do you get there?
again, BI, for the billion+1 time, beliefs can be whatever you want them to be. thoughts can be whatever you want them to be. actions, on the other hand, are defined by public secular laws. if your actions defy those public secular laws, then you are subject to the reprisals definied within those laws (be it law suits, criminal suits and jail time, etc).
in other words, you can b*tch and moan all you want as long as you're following the laws of the state your CHOOSE to live in.

oh wait. you've not chosen to live in these united states. you've chosen to live in germany.
Frankie Rizzo

Hayward, CA

#10119 Sep 20, 2013
Neil An Blowme wrote:
<quoted text>
Forced prison same sex marriage?
Really, Brian? That has about a 0% chance of happening, but please, don't pass up this opportunity to whip yourself into an emotional frenzy over it.
You're just here to vent your own irrational hatred of those who reject your choices, aren't you? Your self-esteem is in the sewer and it shows.
poeticjustice

Corinth, MS

#10120 Sep 20, 2013
So...tried of these cherry picked bible issues. Repubs & blk churches never follow all of it,so why should anyone listen 2 you.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#10121 Sep 20, 2013
Neil An Blowme wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't worry. You'll grow up one day. Stay in school.
I willlll? Golly gee Mr. Blowme.....you sure are smart....maybe one day I can be just like you....with a neato keen internet forum nick name like you.
Neil An Blowme

Hoboken, NJ

#10122 Sep 20, 2013
Frankie Rizzo wrote:
<quoted text>
You're just here to vent your own irrational hatred of those who reject your choices, aren't you? Your self-esteem is in the sewer and it shows.
My choices? Pray tell, Miss Cleo, what are they?

What the fuck do you know about self esteem, Frankie? You don't even have enough sense to be embarrassed about your ridiculous posts. You laugh at science, you ignore the lessons of history and your knowledge of logic is ZERO. Wait.... congratulations are in order. You are perhaps the stupidest person alive.
Neil An Blowme

Hoboken, NJ

#10123 Sep 20, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
I willlll? Golly gee Mr. Blowme.....you sure are smart....maybe one day I can be just like you....with a neato keen internet forum nick name like you.
No chance, pal. You don't have the grey matter. Your posts are proof.
Neil An Blowme

Hoboken, NJ

#10124 Sep 20, 2013
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
<quoted text>
The story of The Khazars.
Sorry Mona, you lose.....
http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/The-Story-...
Riiiiiiiiiiight..... like I'm going to take advice from a psycho like you.

Level 7

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#10125 Sep 20, 2013
poeticjustice wrote:
So...tried of these cherry picked bible issues. Repubs & blk churches never follow all of it,so why should anyone listen 2 you.
And yet that same bible and all other major religious and non religious ethical belief systems, stress the Golden Rule above all others. Yet, some find interpretations that allow them to contradict it.

That you treat others as you would yourself under the law is also a promise of the Declaration, and a requirement of our Constitution.

Matthew 7:12: So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Galatians 5:14: The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#10126 Sep 20, 2013
Neil An Blowme wrote:
<quoted text>
No chance, pal. You don't have the grey matter. Your posts are proof.
Awwwwww.....shucks....and I had such low hopes to grow up to be just like you! Maybe....just maybe if I study real hard and find just the right moniker....oh wait I forgot....Blowme is your sir name.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#10127 Sep 20, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
And yet that same bible and all other major religious and non religious ethical belief systems, stress the Golden Rule above all others. Yet, some find interpretations that allow them to contradict it.
Those very same major religions also allow polygamy. Interesting.
That you treat others as you would yourself under the law is also a promise of the Declaration, and a requirement of our Constitution.
I don't recall seeing that in either document.
Matthew 7:12: So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Galatians 5:14: The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Render onto Caesar.... Is that biblical?
Frankie Rizzo

Hayward, CA

#10128 Sep 20, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Awwwwww.....shucks....and I had such low hopes to grow up to be just like you! Maybe....just maybe if I study real hard and find just the right moniker....oh wait I forgot....Blowme is your sir name.
Yes. The esteemed Kentucky Blowme family.

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