EUROPE: How do YOU view AMERICANS?
OnlyPatchWork

Brewster, NY

#3102 Jan 12, 2014
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
Fundies for one thing tend to be connedservatives, which means they tow the connedservative Faux-News dittohead line... which is that anything liberals say is a lie... including even when climate scientists observe that the earth is
Men tend to be more conservative than women & men tend to be less religious than woman.

So there are a whole lot of conservatives out there who are not religious.
OnlyPatchWork

Brewster, NY

#3103 Jan 12, 2014
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
We are in the end times, and so the environment is irrelevant. That was the opinion expressed by Reagan's Secy of the Interior James Watt.
What about the opinion of Nazi Gunther Schwab an enviromentalist who founded apocalyptic global warming.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#3104 Jan 12, 2014
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
Never has that increase (in CO2) occurred as rapidly as with the 19-20th century explosion of industrialization.
(This is Sone- butting in) How far back can this be measured in the annals of time?
OnlyPatchWork

Brewster, NY

#3105 Jan 12, 2014
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
Right. What is different now is that the warming has occurred very rapidly.
We now that warming periods in the past have correlated with increased CO2 in the atmosphere. Never has that increase (in CO2) occurred as rapidly as with the 19-20th century explosion of industrialization.
In Canada, where the Native people have customarily ridden snowmobiles the year-round over the hard permafrost, they are now getting mired down in the muck as the permafrost melts.
It well behooves humans to objectively seek for answers to this warming, and solutions (to the extent it is human-caused) or we are in for catastrophes such as nobody has seen since the Toba eruption.
1.) The end of the younger dryas there was huge global warming (So bad that Beringia & Doggerland submerged)

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/temperature/gre...

What we have now is slight in comparison.

2.) Between 2004 - 2010 there was slight global cooling despite increases in CO2.

http://chartsgraphs.files.wordpress.com/2009/...

Why is this!? With the out of control global warming & all!?
OnlyPatchWork

Brewster, NY

#3106 Jan 12, 2014
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, fundies tend to think that we should not be preoccupied with the environment in any way, since Jesus is coming soon. We are in the end times, and so the environment is irrelevant. That was the opinion expressed by Reagan's Secy of the Interior James Watt.
February 15, 2011
The Nazi Origins of Apocalyptic Global Warming Theory
By Mark Musser


One of the primary pioneering theorists on apocalyptic global warming is Guenther Schwab (1902-2006), an Austrian Nazi.[i] In 1958, Schwab wrote a fictional novel built off of Goethe's (1749-1832) Faustian religious play entitled "Dance with the Devil." While a few scientists since the late 1800's had contemplated the possibility of minor global warming coming from industrial pollution, Schwab used Goethe's dramatic approach to convert the theory into an apocalyptic crisis. The book outlines many looming environmental emergencies, including anthropogenic global warming. Guenther Schwab's very popular novel was an apocalyptic game changer. By the early 1970's, it had been translated into several languages and had sold over a million copies.

At one point in his novel, Schwab opines on the fragile relationship between oxygen and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Assuming the planet has only about 100 years remaining, Schwab frets over the continuing rise of carbon dioxide that "will absorb and hold fast the warmth given out by the earth. This will cause the climate to become milder and the Polar ice will begin to thaw. As a result, there will be a rise in the level of the ocean and whole continents will be flooded."

Schwab had been a strong nature lover since boyhood, and by the 1920's he became very active in the emerging environmental movement in Austria. Later, he joined the Nazi Party. While this may sound odd to many who have bought into the Marxian propaganda over the years that the Nazis were right wing capitalistic extremists, greens who signed up for the Nazi Party were actually very typical of the day. The most widely represented group of people in the Nazi Party was the greens, and Guenther Schwab was just one of among many.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/the_na...

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#3109 Jan 12, 2014
OnlyPatchWork wrote:
<quoted text>
Men tend to be more conservative than women & men tend to be less religious than woman.
So there are a whole lot of conservatives out there who are not religious.
Religion isn't the only motive for connedservativism. There's also bigotry and greed...

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#3111 Jan 12, 2014
OnlyPatchWork wrote:
<quoted text>
February 15, 2011
The Nazi Origins of Apocalyptic Global Warming Theory
By Mark Musser
One of the primary pioneering theorists on apocalyptic global warming is Guenther Schwab (1902-2006), an Austrian Nazi.[i] In 1958, Schwab wrote a fictional novel built off of Goethe's (1749-1832) Faustian religious play entitled "Dance with the Devil." While a few scientists since the late 1800's had contemplated the possibility of minor global warming coming from industrial pollution, Schwab used Goethe's dramatic approach to convert the theory into an apocalyptic crisis. The book outlines many looming environmental emergencies, including anthropogenic global warming. Guenther Schwab's very popular novel was an apocalyptic game changer. By the early 1970's, it had been translated into several languages and had sold over a million copies.
At one point in his novel, Schwab opines on the fragile relationship between oxygen and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Assuming the planet has only about 100 years remaining, Schwab frets over the continuing rise of carbon dioxide that "will absorb and hold fast the warmth given out by the earth. This will cause the climate to become milder and the Polar ice will begin to thaw. As a result, there will be a rise in the level of the ocean and whole continents will be flooded."
Schwab had been a strong nature lover since boyhood, and by the 1920's he became very active in the emerging environmental movement in Austria. Later, he joined the Nazi Party. While this may sound odd to many who have bought into the Marxian propaganda over the years that the Nazis were right wing capitalistic extremists, greens who signed up for the Nazi Party were actually very typical of the day. The most widely represented group of people in the Nazi Party was the greens, and Guenther Schwab was just one of among many.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/the_na...
The concept of CO2 as a greenhouse gas is a scientific one, and not dependent upon Schwab's fiction.

This attempt to make the Nazis look like fanatic environmentalists fails.

Hitler came to power to oppose the Left. He was supported by corporate capital who also opposed the Left, and feared their impending rise to power through democratic means.

Corporate capital also supported Mussolini and Franco, and later, the various fascists put into power by the USA/UK after overthrowing democratically-elected governments in Guatemala, Iran, Chile, etc.

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#3112 Jan 12, 2014
sONE wrote:
<quoted text>
(This is Sone- butting in) How far back can this be measured in the annals of time?
Very far back. The warming which caused the end-Permian extinctions has been studied. Temperatures and the composition of the atmosphere can be measured by analyzing rocks and sediments.

The current warming is faster than any known, going back 100's of millions of years.

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#3113 Jan 12, 2014
OnlyPatchWork wrote:
<quoted text>
1.) The end of the younger dryas there was huge global warming (So bad that Beringia & Doggerland submerged)
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/temperature/gre...
What we have now is slight in comparison.
2.) Between 2004 - 2010 there was slight global cooling despite increases in CO2.
http://chartsgraphs.files.wordpress.com/2009/...
Why is this!? With the out of control global warming & all!?
End of younger Dryas... was more severe, but the onset was slower.

Climate is very complex. Overall warming has occurred. There are cycles whose extremes might move in either direction.

The FACT many choose to ignore is that polar ice AND glaciation worldwide have decreased.
http://nsidc.org/cryosphere/sotc/glacier_bala...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/...
http://www.nichols.edu/departments/glacier/gl...
http://www.groundtruthtrekking.org/Issues/Cli...
http://www-das.uwyo.edu/~geerts/cwx/notes/cha...

Yes, it's happening, connedservative lies notwithstanding.

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#3114 Jan 12, 2014
sONE wrote:
<quoted text>
It says: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
To have a display on government property is not establishing a religion. Who the h3ll is so intolerant of a holiday religious display?
If I was in Salt Lake City and it was Joseph Smith's birthday and they had some display up concerning that- WHY would I care????
If I went into a historically Jewish part of New York and they had a menorah displayed on a Federal Annex building or public school building- WHY would I care???
As you say, such things use to be- so apparently a group of intolerant grouches had it changed way after 100 years of such activities.
Christian intolerance was the norm for a long time.

Now we're supposed to suddenly forget that and allow them to return their religion to the schools, public parks, etc.???

Why? It only encourages them to increase their intolerance.

Christians whining over this remind me of whites whining about Affirmative Action... but where was the whining during a century of Jim Crow?

Now suddenly they're colorblind and don't know of any racism... not believable, any more than are the Christians pretending that THEY are the victims.

Like I said, they had prayer and Bible-reading in my public elementary school... and it was used to victimize the only Jewish student in the class. It gave the bigoted teacher free reign to be a bigot against children. Now, such a teacher has to keep her mouth shut.

Good.

This is an allegedly FREE and secular nation. Not everyone is Christian. So y'all will just have to keep your religion in your homes and churches, and keep it out of my face.

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#3115 Jan 12, 2014
Giggs wrote:
<quoted text>
I met michael Palin....
sorry but I just need to say it....
In the year 2000 i went to scotland on vacation. When I came out of a pub he was sat drinking a coffee in the sun. Myself my mum and my dad had a chat with him for a while. He was filming something.
I like his round the world documentarys best.
Cool.

I've liked Monty Python since I was a kid. I still do, but now rather reluctantly. I remember John Cleese saying that London is no longer and English city, and so he moved to Bath.

Here is the verbatim text from an article written about him and Monty Python. Cleese's words are quoted at the beginning:

"'There were disadvantages to the old culture, it was a bit stuffy and it was more sexist and more racist. But it was an educated and middle-class culture. Now it's a yob culture. The values are so strange,' Cleese said in a recent interview quoted by the London Telegraph.

But what did he expect? If you're throwing traditional values onto a bonfire every seven days as Python did, isn't the inference you'd like to see them changed? Sometimes change for its own sake doesn't quite go as planned…"

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#3116 Jan 12, 2014
sONE wrote:
<quoted text>
There's not anything in the Constitution about separation of church and state.
Thomas Jefferson wrote that the 1st Amendment erected a "wall of separation" between the church and the state The phrase is commonly thought to mean that the government should not establish, support, or otherwise involve itself in any religion.
I don't think means that the majority of a certain religion in a town cannot have symbols of it's religious holidays on government buildings or in schools on their holidays- also would apply to Mormons in Utah, people in a predominately Jewish area, etc.
cosign.

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#3117 Jan 12, 2014
Walter Henrickson wrote:
<quoted text>
Cool.
I've liked Monty Python since I was a kid. I still do, but now rather reluctantly. I remember John Cleese saying that London is no longer and English city, and so he moved to Bath.
Here is the verbatim text from an article written about him and Monty Python. Cleese's words are quoted at the beginning:
"'There were disadvantages to the old culture, it was a bit stuffy and it was more sexist and more racist. But it was an educated and middle-class culture. Now it's a yob culture. The values are so strange,' Cleese said in a recent interview quoted by the London Telegraph.
But what did he expect? If you're throwing traditional values onto a bonfire every seven days as Python did, isn't the inference you'd like to see them changed? Sometimes change for its own sake doesn't quite go as planned…"
The change the Pythons desired, in common with we in the USA, the French du moi de mai and others had a large economic component.

What we've gotten instead, in UK as in the USA, is the licentiousness of the 60's but a tight rightening of the economy... Reagan & Thatcher.

So now it's acceptable to be a bald tattooed freak, but you're not in a Union and your job sucks. Sex is allowed but you have overall fewer rights than in the 60's.

They screwed and suckered you good.

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#3118 Jan 12, 2014
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
The change the Pythons desired, in common with we in the USA, the French du moi de mai and others had a large economic component.
What we've gotten instead, in UK as in the USA, is the licentiousness of the 60's
"The licentiousness of the 60's" is yours, and it's your generation's fault. I will never forgive the '68rs. Even Loulou said her mother said they should be sued.

Déclaration de Guerre.

http://tinyurl.com/o4u6e33
Loulou

Slagelse, Denmark

#3119 Jan 13, 2014
Walter Henrickson wrote:
<quoted text>
"The licentiousness of the 60's" is yours, and it's your generation's fault. I will never forgive the '68rs. Even Loulou said her mother said they should be sued.
Déclaration de Guerre.
http://tinyurl.com/o4u6e33
That's true . That's her reality. But she never told me how to think and what to say. And she never expected false loyalty. She critizes me and I her. And doesn't expect me to agree with her in every GD thing. My parents don't even vote for the same political wing . One is a lefty the other is slightly conservative . Lol

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#3120 Jan 13, 2014
Loulou wrote:
Well, I think religion is used by SOME ppl to project and justify thier actions. So they'll not be able to be held directly responsable. And at the same time very conviniently they can indoctrinate others. Very appealling to ppl with a God complex . Tuttelut.
Well Franco reportedly said that he was accountable only to God and History. I guess that gives one immense elbow room for nearly anything.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#3121 Jan 13, 2014
Walter Henrickson wrote:
<quoted text>
"The licentiousness of the 60's" is yours, and it's your generation's fault. I will never forgive the '68rs. Even Loulou said her mother said they should be sued.
Déclaration de Guerre.
http://tinyurl.com/o4u6e33
LOL! The Right breaks out in a cold sweat just thinking about the 1960. Democracy rose, rebellion spread in both East and West, and scared the crap out of the Establishment.
Popular resistance from the Black Feedom Movement, youth, women, the poor, and even gays--people who were traditionally powerless, accomodating, voiceless--revolted against their traditional overlords. They created the vision (or scary spectacle for the Right) of the the Great Refusal, of insurgent FREEDOM RISING!!!
Ah, what a joy to see the minions of the old order crapping themselves. LOL!

Power to the People! L'imagination au Pouvoir!

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#3122 Jan 13, 2014
sONE wrote:
<quoted text>
Please give information about a theocracy movement in the United States. I have never known of any Christians who wanted a Federal theocracy. They came over here to get AWAY from theocracies.
Actually Spain and Portugal claimed territories for their rulers and knew it was about wealth and prestige for their nations. Colonies in the US started out as business enterprises also, and for people to escape harsh conditions or religious persecution. The killing of Natives was for greed over land by some- and because of fear or revenge by others. If anything, religion probably gave a sense of conscience for the truly religious- who may have tried to skew Scriptures/beliefs to justify certain things. Most all Abolitionists were Christians, even preachers who risked their lives. Christian nations were among the first to abolish slavery- while it still exists today in many places in the world.
What do you mean by "secular"?
Duh...I said NOTHING about a theocracy MOVEMENT in the USA. But if a Christian theocracy took power int ehe USA our political liberties and other freedoms would shrivel to about the level as they are now in Iran. Greed is always involved with imperialism. But Christian and Muslim imperialism also carry fanatical zeal as part of their arsenal. When Muslim conquer and pillage there was religious zeal to support their greed. Same with Christians. By comparison pagan conquerors were motivated by greed and glory. But Greek and Roman conquerors could careless about the religiousa beliefs of their conquered peoples. The didn't wage holy wars, crusades and jihads. No Inquisitions. Not that pagans were all nice folk. Caesar was a butcher. But not a theocrat or religious fanatic. He'd kill you for rebellion, not for heresy. A Cromwell might well kill you for the wrong religious beliefs. Torquemada might kill you for the wrong religous beliefs. The Puritans took seriously the OT instructions to "suffer not a witch to live." And MILLIONS of people were persecuted and killed for witchcraft in both Protestant and Catholic Europe---when they were busy killing each other.(Wars ofCatholic vs Protestant, sometimes Protestand vs Prostestant, cut the population of Germany in half between 1618--1648)
As for the "truly religious" they found much support for slavery, the subjection of women and extirpation of "heathens" in the Bible. The Bible and Koran are both FULL of that stuff. Even Paul instructs slaves to submit to their masters, and wives to submit to their husbands. The OT is full of stories of the DIVINELY sanctioned enslavements or destruction of unbelievers.And we can go on and on.
Virtually ALL the civil liberties that the USA or Europe takes for granted were OPPOSED by most churches in the beginning. The pioneers of new freedoms were people who were either non-religious, mildly religous (or only nominally so) or antireligious. The architechts of the American republic, or at least of the Declaration and Constitution were aware of this bloody, repressive religious history...which is why they decided upon a SECULAR republic, or what Jefferson calles a wall of division between church and state. That's one of the reasons we don't live in a Christian Taliban.(If you don't know what secularism is, read up on such topics as "secularims", "ecular humanism", agnosticism, atheism, Deism, etc Maybe read Peter Gay's book on the Enlightenment, which is a classic)

Level 8

Since: Oct 09

Paris France

#3123 Jan 13, 2014
sONE wrote:
<quoted text>
True. I should have said Britain, not just England. I do know that Wales, Scotland and part of Ireland are the United Kingdom, but I still think of those nations as separate in a way. That's right- all of them fought in the war- and then there were others from the Commonwealth, etc.
I was rather surprised to see numerous UK posters write that the US was actually not needed over there at the time they arrived, so I think it's horrible the Americans would have fought and died there for no reason when they could have put their efforts toward the Japan part of it and that would have been over with much quicker and more US lives would have been saved.
You may look closer to a calendar : we are in 2014. Not in 1941 or 1945.
A lot of things have radically changed since World War II.

So I don't think the reference to what the USA did then is very relevant today to explain anything.

Each time, I'm visiting the USA, my mixed feelings are left unchanged : many great things to be seen, many things similar to the E.U., a few better things (for ex. in job offers, sometimes in higher education but not always, the 1st Amendment), and this terrible feeling of "selfishness" that is so pervasive to the average American mindset.

It's probably the major difference between the E.U and the USA : the worse of "whiteness" and this extreme selfishness that are cherished by the average US citizen, the latter has contaminated the Minorities too though to a little lesser extent.

There is also a subsidiary trait I'm seeing in the US people at large : a determined, quite philosophical optimism. The idea that everything can be "fixed", that the next minute will be better, that every one WILL BE happy one day (they can't tell when), that tomorrow will bring something fantastic, that even in total deep sh*t you can smile since you're not dead yet , that you "can" (!) be a billionnaire one day, "yes we can" was typically the US motto etc.
Probably we in Europe have a more tragic vision of life and a greater ability to be pessimistic - without being impeded by that - even when we move on.

I know I am writing about stereotypes but that is what the thread is about and sterotypes do tell us someting from reality. To a certain extent.

a whiteeuroboi

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#3124 Jan 13, 2014
Walter Henrickson wrote:
<quoted text>
"The licentiousness of the 60's" is yours, and it's your generation's fault. I will never forgive the '68rs. Even Loulou said her mother said they should be sued.
Déclaration de Guerre.
http://tinyurl.com/o4u6e33
You completely miss the point, as usual. Corporate power allowed, and encourages, what i called "licentiousness", because then they fool people into thinking they're allowed to be individuals. They let you pretend you have freedom, while paying an inadequate minimum wage and opposing EVERY economic advance made by liberals since FDR.

The corporate system will sell you freaky clothes and purple hair dye but they don't want to see you on a Union line!!!

Get it? And what are you, Gen X? The generation who did NOTHING to fight for justice.
You have nothing to say. Go listen to Bananarama.

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