Mormons Change References To Blacks, Polygamy

Mar 17, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: nhpr.org

The Four Standard Works, which contains the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price, are the holy scriptures of the Mormon Church.

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#121
May 11, 2013
 
osirica wrote:
Black people are known, even in ancient times to be the forerunners of humanity
Nice piece of science 101 info. Unfortunately it doesn't explain Bible 101 info and how humans physically evolved in just 4000 years of Bible time.
By the way, brown people, not black people were the forerunners of humanity. And they didn't all look alike. We also know that a single branch of humanity existed at one time. We know now that up to several branches of humanity lived alongside each other through various time eras.:)

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#122
May 11, 2013
 
Lucifer wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right.
And, this is the PRIMARY reason why I'm a Misotheist and why I HATE God.
Ever make an aquarium from scratch? Filled it with water and set a air pump on it to resupply the oxygen? Set gravel in the bottom with live plants and let it set for a few days to get that 'new' smell out of it before adding fish?
Doing the above is a prime perfect example of what's it's like to be a god of your own world you created. You can tend the world to help it keep going or if you want, you can destroy it and make everything disappear.
You're finding some real strange reason to hate a 'story', understand? You're not hating an actual provable beyond the reason of a doubt fact of life. You're hating a story.
In that story a God created all that is. Accordingly as we humans also declare a right to destroying what we have created, that God in that story has all the rights to destroy what it also created. Humans destroy all sorts of living life every single waking hour of every single living day.
Yet you find time to find reasons to hate a God in a story? Seems to me you're wasting your reasoning hating the God of a story when you could be down at a busy intersection, carrying a sign that states you hate humans that destroy life to make a point to real people. Just saying...
Lucifer

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#123
May 11, 2013
 
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Ever make an aquarium from scratch? Filled it with water and set a air pump on it to resupply the oxygen? Set gravel in the bottom with live plants and let it set for a few days to get that 'new' smell out of it before adding fish?
Doing the above is a prime perfect example of what's it's like to be a god of your own world you created. You can tend the world to help it keep going or if you want, you can destroy it and make everything disappear.
You're finding some real strange reason to hate a 'story', understand? You're not hating an actual provable beyond the reason of a doubt fact of life. You're hating a story.
In that story a God created all that is. Accordingly as we humans also declare a right to destroying what we have created, that God in that story has all the rights to destroy what it also created. Humans destroy all sorts of living life every single waking hour of every single living day.
Yet you find time to find reasons to hate a God in a story? Seems to me you're wasting your reasoning hating the God of a story when you could be down at a busy intersection, carrying a sign that states you hate humans that destroy life to make a point to real people. Just saying...
I see your point...
But, that story about Noah cursing Canaan's descendants is why I hated God, I thought that curse had something to do with my people.

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#124
May 11, 2013
 
osirica wrote:
THAT IS YOUR PROOF.
<quoted text>
My proof is what the Bible includes and what it doesn't include at present.
There is no way in using just the Bible for a source to figure out what colour Adam was. That simple.

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#125
May 11, 2013
 

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I can see how that would be viewed that way back then.

Howevver the variations among black people as we know them today... the Hebrew writers knew then.

So you have some Semitics and other Hamitics that clearly are descendents of Kush.... take Nimrod for example....that's Babylonia.
Lucifer wrote:
<quoted text>
I was told that Cush, the son of Ham, and the grandaon of Noah, is the ancestor of the black race.
However, I don't know if that's true or not.
Phoenix

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#126
May 11, 2013
 
osirica wrote:
Cain is not the ancestor of the black race because black people did not partake in his curse.

Therefore the mark of Cain is not blackskin because, 1. Since blacks were not his descenents, they must have been present prior to his situation, thus Adam and Eve must have been black.

2. The writers did not have racial hangups about black people, so there is nothing historical to give this theory legs to walk on. it's just modern day prejudice

3. The Bible does not state that the curse or the mark was passed down to his descendents. When a curse is passed down, God says so
Are you saying Cain is white?
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#127
May 11, 2013
 
Lucifer wrote:
<quoted text>I was told that Cush, the son of Ham, and the grandaon of Noah, is the ancestor of the black race.
However, I don't know if that's true or not.
That's what the bible says.

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#128
May 11, 2013
 

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Lucifer wrote:
<quoted text>
I see your point...
But, that story about Noah cursing Canaan's descendants is why I hated God, I thought that curse had something to do with my people.
Plausible reasoning if you're looking for a reason to hate I agree.

Ham is the one that saw his father's drunken nakedness. But Noah cursed Ham's son, his grandson and their descendants. This was a severe cursing for servitude.
There is much in the Bible that we don't understand because it's obviously incomplete.
The Bible writers did as anyone does that's writing a story. They cut bits and pieces off to shorten it while trying to keep it as explanatory as possible for the reader.
The beginning life of Adam and Eve was left out because the writer thought the reader would understand the basics of how two people start out in life on their own or with some help. The writer didn't include the genealogy from Adam to Cain and Able. The issue of incest would have had to of been addressed/explained and why later it was wrong.
Cain was cursed and marked and much of the story is left out, including his life after that incident and where he went and how he died. The story says nothing if the curses on Cain fell onto his posterity.
The stories say nothing of what the wickedness was that people did that caused God to kill everyone. It doesn't describe nations and countries or anything geographical.
Than we have a flood and how it happened isn't described for actual understanding.
Take what you read with a grain of salt before you choose to hate...just suggesting...

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#129
May 11, 2013
 
That is insufficient. Period.

Firstly, you are discussing the "mark" and the reaction of others towards Cain being an ancestor of Lamech.

Not the curse.

And no, it's not logical to assume there was a mark on Lamesch due to the circumstances of him being attacked.

Your making assumptions off of assumptions, and they are very weak...

And they are really you choosing out of millions of possibilities anything to make the "black race" linked to Cain.

See this is what you don't get.

You say God can do anything and we know this.

But you keep limiting God's choice to something that is not even implied in the Bible. But you also draw inferences that have nothing to do with God doing anything...

So you want us to consider that Lamech had the mark also because Cain's mark was set to protect him if anyone tried to kill him...

Yet, someone tried to kill Lamech.

and finally this has nothing to do with black people. For the mark was not called "Sachor" nor was there any biblical link between the Kushim and Cain. If the writer thought there was a link, he would have clearly indicated such and later Jews wouldn't have removed it. Rome certainly wouldn't have been interested in it to force it's removal.
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Consider this as to if Cain's cursings were being passed down to his descendants though it doesn't state it...
15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
It appears that being a descendant of Cain, Lamech was approached by a younger man that engaged him in a fight. The young man wounded lamech but Lamech killed the young man. Lamach is now stating he'll be avenged seventy and sevenfold for having been attacked.
The person Lamech killed has been said in theory was Cain. But I disagree because Cain would have been much, much older than Lamech.
Since Lamech says he'll be avenged so much more for having been attacked, Lamech had to of been carrying the same mark Cain carried. I say that because Lamech claimed as God said of Cain, he had a mark to protect him and if anyone came up to slew him/kill him Cain would be avenged and so also lamech under the same condition.
I haven't studied the relationship of Cain and what lamech claims so that I will.

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#130
May 11, 2013
 
Well, also be aware that when others do not take the Bible for what it says... they will also engage in hateful behavior.

Take the Mormon prophets for example.

Took cain and used him as an excuse to hate on black people.
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Plausible reasoning if you're looking for a reason to hate I agree.
Ham is the one that saw his father's drunken nakedness. But Noah cursed Ham's son, his grandson and their descendants. This was a severe cursing for servitude.
There is much in the Bible that we don't understand because it's obviously incomplete.
The Bible writers did as anyone does that's writing a story. They cut bits and pieces off to shorten it while trying to keep it as explanatory as possible for the reader.
The beginning life of Adam and Eve was left out because the writer thought the reader would understand the basics of how two people start out in life on their own or with some help. The writer didn't include the genealogy from Adam to Cain and Able. The issue of incest would have had to of been addressed/explained and why later it was wrong.
Cain was cursed and marked and much of the story is left out, including his life after that incident and where he went and how he died. The story says nothing if the curses on Cain fell onto his posterity.
The stories say nothing of what the wickedness was that people did that caused God to kill everyone. It doesn't describe nations and countries or anything geographical.
Than we have a flood and how it happened isn't described for actual understanding.
Take what you read with a grain of salt before you choose to hate...just suggesting...
Lucifer

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#131
May 11, 2013
 
osirica wrote:
I can see how that would be viewed that way back then.
Howevver the variations among black people as we know them today... the Hebrew writers knew then.
So you have some Semitics and other Hamitics that clearly are descendents of Kush.... take Nimrod for example....that's Babylonia.
<quoted text>
True.

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#132
May 11, 2013
 
Nope I'm saying Cain and Abel were born black and the "mark" had nothing to do with skin color. The events in the flood and then later with the tower of babble, White people came about later due to an unknown series of adaptations to climate.

I also believe that the events from the flood to Abraham signified tribes which were founded by various individuals, but did not reflect direct descent from one name to the next.

I'm saying that the hebrew writer did not consider skin color when writing the story about them, and the mark did not occur to him to be "changing his skin from one color to another".
Phoenix wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying Cain is white?

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#133
May 11, 2013
 
Actually not

Some Kushites like the Midianites are said to be descendents of Shem

Intermarriage between these three main groups was going on already... so it wasn't so cut and dry.
Phoenix wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what the bible says.

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#134
May 11, 2013
 
Yes well you rule out certain things.

You rule out that Cain was marked with a skin of blackness because it doesn't make sense in the Bible at all.
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
My proof is what the Bible includes and what it doesn't include at present.
There is no way in using just the Bible for a source to figure out what colour Adam was. That simple.
Lucifer

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#135
May 11, 2013
 
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Plausible reasoning if you're looking for a reason to hate I agree.
Ham is the one that saw his father's drunken nakedness. But Noah cursed Ham's son, his grandson and their descendants. This was a severe cursing for servitude.
There is much in the Bible that we don't understand because it's obviously incomplete.
The Bible writers did as anyone does that's writing a story. They cut bits and pieces off to shorten it while trying to keep it as explanatory as possible for the reader.
The beginning life of Adam and Eve was left out because the writer thought the reader would understand the basics of how two people start out in life on their own or with some help. The writer didn't include the genealogy from Adam to Cain and Able. The issue of incest would have had to of been addressed/explained and why later it was wrong.
Cain was cursed and marked and much of the story is left out, including his life after that incident and where he went and how he died. The story says nothing if the curses on Cain fell onto his posterity.
The stories say nothing of what the wickedness was that people did that caused God to kill everyone. It doesn't describe nations and countries or anything geographical.
Than we have a flood and how it happened isn't described for actual understanding.
Take what you read with a grain of salt before you choose to hate...just suggesting...
Ok, I'll be sure to do that for now on...
Lucifer

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#136
May 11, 2013
 
osirica wrote:
White people came about later due to an unknown series of adaptations to climate.
<quoted text>
Yes, I believe they're the ones who adapted to climates that possessed colder temperatures.

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#137
May 11, 2013
 
Mormons are brainwashed loser whack jobs.

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#138
May 11, 2013
 
Now consider this

Moses lived in a region that had a lot of black people... Egypt. He also lived during a period where the Egyptian empire was particularly attached to it's Nubian roots.(18th/19th Dynasty).

And as you go further back in time, the average shade in that part of the world goes darker and darker in general.

Egyptians viewed their ancestry to be further south, up the Nile. In fact, their own creation stories relate to that.

It is therefore very reasonable that Moses (correctly) viewed the source of the Nile as the origin of humanity. Moses compiled Genesis, not King James of England.
Lucifer wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I believe they're the ones who adapted to climates that possessed colder temperatures.

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#139
May 12, 2013
 
osirica wrote:
That is insufficient. Period.
Firstly, you are discussing the "mark" and the reaction of others towards Cain being an ancestor of Lamech.
Not the curse.
And no, it's not logical to assume there was a mark on Lamesch due to the circumstances of him being attacked.
Your making assumptions off of assumptions, and they are very weak...
I cut your post off for the last statement that you claim I'm making assumptions and their very weak? Like you don't do the very same exact thing to a greater degree? How hypocritical of you as usual.
You have combined the Bible and science to assume Adam and Eve came from primates, not the earth as the Bible states happened. You have assumed by that erroneous theory that since primates were dark/black and Adam and Eve came from those primates that they were dark/black so all their descendants were dark/black way past Noah.
You assume the other colours of humanity evolved by environment and or a genetic malfunction over a period of at least hundreds of thousands of years while ignoring the fact that the Bible has a timeline for human development of just 6000 years.
You have made major assumptions mixing evolution and creationism to support your huge racist theory that all things human are black and African. And if any science disagrees with your racist logic, they not you are the racists.
Have I missed anything of what you have stated/implied?

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#140
May 12, 2013
 
The arguement starts off with the assumption about Cain being marked with black skin.

I speak up against that.

And YOU speak up against me... NOT against them.
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I cut your post off for the last statement that you claim I'm making assumptions and their very weak? Like you don't do the very same exact thing to a greater degree? How hypocritical of you as usual.
You have combined the Bible and science to assume Adam and Eve came from primates, not the earth as the Bible states happened. You have assumed by that erroneous theory that since primates were dark/black and Adam and Eve came from those primates that they were dark/black so all their descendants were dark/black way past Noah.
You assume the other colours of humanity evolved by environment and or a genetic malfunction over a period of at least hundreds of thousands of years while ignoring the fact that the Bible has a timeline for human development of just 6000 years.
You have made major assumptions mixing evolution and creationism to support your huge racist theory that all things human are black and African. And if any science disagrees with your racist logic, they not you are the racists.
Have I missed anything of what you have stated/implied?

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