Africans discovered the AMERICA befor...
Barros Serrano

United States

#6867 Aug 18, 2012
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
You're not making any sense. We are not talking about some irrelevant ethnic group you found. We are specifically talking about Malinke-Bambara. You have not studied the history of African languages, otherwise you would know that West Africa is the home of these people. If not, where did Malinke-Bambara originate, and, if you can, I would prefer if you gave a definitive answer, not your usual "well it could of", "well it might of", stuff.
If they migrated there from elsewhere in Africa, then that would have been before they adopted the language, which would subsequently mean before they created a script for it IN that language. Common sense.
I'm betting Redefined has no clue in which language phylum are languages like Bambara, Akan, Yoruba, etc.
Barros Serrano

United States

#6868 Aug 18, 2012
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the exact conclusion I had reached soon after our own debate, which prompted me to jump in this one. At first I decided I didn't want to be a part of this thread's argument, but after realizing the same dynamics being played out here as has been done historically to African civilizations, I said that it's just not right.
Hopefully you've had the chance to view the documentary, Africa: A History Denied. In it, it details how the British, upon discovering the Great Zimbabwe ruins, they immediately ASSUMED that it HAD to have been created by an ancient white people. Or perhaps, Persians, or Arabs, or anyone except dumb natives. So that began to dig, really pillage and plunder, for evidence of the mythological people and, surprise surprise, they found none. In the process of them committing this atrocity, they nearly destroyed ANY evidence that one of the greatest civilizations of the interior of Africa had even existed.
When I think about this, it makes me want to knife the people that did it. And now the same Blacks who've had their own civilizations be denied to them, are attempting to try and seize, Native American history. It's not right.
<quoted text>
These people are going by the superficial notion of the Olmec heads looking "African". This frame of logic is faulty on its face. Even if "eye" anthropology was a valid method of discerning origins and relationships, they would still fail, because there are SO MANY artifacts that don't look ANYTHING like any African groups, yet no one cares to ever explain this blatant contradiction.
How can you assume that Olmecs were African based on physical appearance, when most Olmec artifacts don't look anything like Africans, let alone any known African artifacts?
Black African presence occurs in all regions of Africa, in places of Europe, West Asia, India...there's nobody saying that Africans didn't leave Africa. There is simply no evidence that they came to the Americas to settle, let alone build civilizations.
YES, exactly the same game was played on Africa as on Native America.“anyone but... these savages...” The Swahili Coast civilization was ascribed to Persians and Arabs, and so on.

There is also a serious mental problem with these people, I firmly believe this. They have inculcated self-hatred due to white racism, but have sublimated it with this anger that they're “really” all these other people but whitey has hidden it from them, rather than facing that they are West-Central Africans and what whitey hid was the truth about their REAL ancestors.

I am not black but I know this is going on because I taught school and would have 4th grade black kids (AA's, this was in S-Central L.A.) saying the most amazing and disturbing self-hating things. They laughed at Africa. They acted tough and called name at the Mexicans and whites, but at the same time the girl would draw themselve with light skin and green eyes,“so I'll look pretty”. Ok, well AA's don't need a lecture from me on the self-hating syndrome, but what I'm saying is that these Afronazis are deep in it... a sort of Stockholm Syndrome where they essentially have to become whitey... THEY really are the Greeks, the Phoenicians, the Vikings...

How many in here know that in Togo there was an iron and steel industry before slavery days which was exporting goods even to Europe? Which was so extensive that they were causing deforestation and environmental problems? Do you people have any idea of the extensive and diverse economy which was driving the prosperity of cities like Djenne? Do you think W Africa can't compete with the Olmecs for glory and greatness?

Stop linking to Olmec heads and start showing us some pics of the iron sculpture in West Africa. Stop babbling about von Wuthenau and tell us what's happening in West African archaeology.

“Africa”

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Oakland

#6869 Aug 18, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
I wasn't implying Mande actually migrated from elsewhere. I giving an example of a ethnic group from West Africa who's ancestor came from Sudan. If the same scenario applied to Mande, I would have shown you similarities between their language & languages from Sudan.
Either way, you don't seem to be fashioning relevant point.

You give the impression that Olmecs were Malinke. Well, there's no evidence that Malinke ever created boats designed for ocean faring at that early date. There's no evidence that Malinke migrated from West Africa eastward until they reached North America at any date. There's no evidence that the Malinke traveled north into Europe and "island-hopped" until they reached Greenland, traveled down into Canada and continuing south until they reached Mexico.

I really don't care what route you think they "could have" taken; there is no evidence that they took it.

“Africa”

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Oakland

#6870 Aug 18, 2012
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly.....
When people migrant away from different areas the they will lose some of those original cultural traits, while taking on new ones. New ones that might not look the old cultural traits.
No amount of cultural divergence on earth would ever possess any African to sculpt a piece like this:

http://donsmaps.com/images26/twinsjaguarinsit...

This is supposed to be emblematic of a twin deities by the way. Why would any African want to diefy someone who looks nothing like him or any African he's ever seen in his life?
Barros Serrano

United States

#6871 Aug 18, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
Egypt is a good example. You have Africans who are descendant from Egyptians yet we don't see any strong cultural parallels between Ancient Egypt & Modern Africans & why would there be when Africans have been migrating all over Africa & the fact Christianity & Islam has been a major influence throughout Africa.
That's right, you MUST be an Egyptian, because of course you're too f'ing good to be an Igbo or Mandinke or Yoruba... That's not nearly exotic enough. You built pyramids! You were Cleopatra! You were Helen of Troy! You were the Queen of Sheba!

Oh no, not just some West African... do you have the same image of them that white racists have? Hanging from trees, eating bananas, saying “ooga-booga”?

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

Orlando, FL

#6872 Aug 18, 2012
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
People change languages, you know. One thing any anthropologist will tell you is that you CAN NOT assume there will be a match between a peoples' DNA, origin and language.
Examples: here we all are speaking English, but how many of us are really English?
Also, the nearly pure indigenous (Cro-Magnon) population of central Wales speak either a Celtic (Welsh) or Germanic (English) language, rather than that of their ancestors.
The Berbers speak an Afroasiatic language which is discernibly related to other Afroasiatic languages, which would not be discernible if it were their original language 30,000 years ago and had no common tie to other Afroasiatic languages more recent than that.
And so on.
Give it up, there were no Mande in Mexico!
English belongs in The Indo European branch. So if we're all speaking English, it indicate an Indo-European influence. The Berbers are suppose to be white yet their indigenous language is classified as Afro-Asiatic which has it's origins in East Africa whom are Black Africans.
trollslayer

Hammond, IN

#6873 Aug 18, 2012
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
YES, exactly the same game was played on Africa as on Native America.“anyone but... these savages...”
Stop linking to Olmec heads and start showing us some pics of the iron sculpture in West Africa. Stop babbling about von Wuthenau and tell us what's happening in West African archaeology.
Look bytch...who the hell ru to tell Blacks who they can and can't talk about and study. And stop sucking BK's azz. In other threads u've called him insulting names.

You NEED to work on not being viewed as a 'effing useless, afro-phobic, anti-jewish, uneducated, lying troll RACIST by all the Topix posters.
trollslayer

Hammond, IN

#6874 Aug 18, 2012
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
No amount of cultural divergence on earth would ever possess any African to sculpt a piece like this:
http://donsmaps.com/images26/twinsjaguarinsit...
This is supposed to be emblematic of a twin deities by the way. Why would any African want to diefy someone who looks nothing like him or any African he's ever seen in his life?
The head-dress on the sculptures look Egyptian

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

Orlando, FL

#6875 Aug 18, 2012
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
Either way, you don't seem to be fashioning relevant point.
You give the impression that Olmecs were Malinke.
This is based on Leo Wiener work who claimed Olmecs spoke a Mande language. If he's wrong, I will simply accept this as I wouldn't argue against FACTS but I argue because I don't understand why no linguists has corrected his work if it BS.
trollslayer

Hammond, IN

#6876 Aug 18, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
English belongs in The Indo European branch. So if we're all speaking English, it indicate an Indo-European influence. The Berbers are suppose to be white yet their indigenous language is classified as Afro-Asiatic which has it's origins in East Africa whom are Black Africans.
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text> Berbers are suppose to be white yet their indigenous language is classified as Afro-Asiatic which has it's origins in East Africa whom are Black Africans.
Exactly....but the trolls would have you believe the "berbers" were a "indigenous" white group of people from n.Africa
trollslayer

Hammond, IN

#6877 Aug 18, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
This is based on Leo Wiener work who claimed Olmecs spoke a Mande language. If he's wrong, I will simply accept this as I wouldn't argue against FACTS but I argue because I don't understand why no linguists has corrected his work if it BS.
Good Question
Barros Serrano

United States

#6878 Aug 18, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
English belongs in The Indo European branch. So if we're all speaking English, it indicate an Indo-European influence. The Berbers are suppose to be white yet their indigenous language is classified as Afro-Asiatic which has it's origins in East Africa whom are Black Africans.
It wouldn't matter where a people's language came from. Afroasiatic likely did NOT come from East Africa.

It was brought into the Maghreb when? There were no migrations of Africans into the Maghreb at that time. There WERE migrations of Mideasterners.

But still, you don't get it... a language does not indicate ancestry!

My point is a pure African AA speaks English, yet isn't English. Am I English because I speak it? Am I Spanish or Mexican?

That's how simplistic people in here think. I have a Castilian made-up screen name, and speak the language so therefore I'm Mexican. Simpletons.

In ethnic terms it's the same. Someone speaks a particular language, but it doesn't necessarily reflect their ancestry.

For ancestry we need DNA. That is the most reliable evidence.

In the case of the Olmec... they were from Soconusco where the Maya were, and they migrated to Veracruz where ALSO Mayan languages were spoken. Hmmmm... so what are the chances the Olmecs spoke a Mayan language? Pretty damned good.

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

Orlando, FL

#6879 Aug 18, 2012
Another thing. The Basque, Native Americans & North African Berbers are suppose to have the highest % of O Blood. O Blood is the oldest blood group among Humans yet none of these groups are older than Africans. So were did their O blood come from?? No one still hasn't answered this.
Barros Serrano

United States

#6880 Aug 18, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
This is based on Leo Wiener work who claimed Olmecs spoke a Mande language. If he's wrong, I will simply accept this as I wouldn't argue against FACTS but I argue because I don't understand why no linguists has corrected his work if it BS.
HOW could Olmec be writing in Mande when Mande wasn't yet written at that time?

Do I need to have a linguist write another paper about Weiner to deal with this? No... the comparison is ludicrous, and so we just ignore it.

Likewise Libyco-Berber script is a ludicrous interpretation of Olmec writing.
Barros Serrano

United States

#6881 Aug 18, 2012
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
The head-dress on the sculptures look Egyptian
Do you not ever notice how ridiculous this is? Y'all will jump at any imagined similarity. And you're arguing that the Olmecs were Mande, Egyptian, and who else? Oh yeah, their script was Libyco-Berber. How many other DIFFERENT African people will you desperately attempt to connect to the Olmec? You don't care about evidence... ANY Africans will do!

Not working. You can talk crap online all you like, but the fact is I do have an education in these matters, and you do not. That is obvious.
Barros Serrano

United States

#6882 Aug 18, 2012
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Exactly....but the trolls would have you believe the "berbers" were a "indigenous" white group of people from n.Africa
You use the word “white”, which reveals your racism. Who the hell said the Berbers were “white”? I don't even care about that designation one way or the other. What I do know is that the Berbers have been predominantly Eurasian for 30,000 years, and that is proven by a lot of evidence.

Also, look at the Guanches. I mean some of them were blonde. So were they “white”? I don't care.

They were not black Africans, we know that.

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

Orlando, FL

#6883 Aug 18, 2012
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
It wouldn't matter where a people's language came from. Afroasiatic likely did NOT come from East Africa.
It was brought into the Maghreb when? There were no migrations of Africans into the Maghreb at that time. There WERE migrations of Mideasterners.
But still, you don't get it... a language does not indicate ancestry!
My point is a pure African AA speaks English, yet isn't English. Am I English because I speak it? Am I Spanish or Mexican?
That's how simplistic people in here think. I have a Castilian made-up screen name, and speak the language so therefore I'm Mexican. Simpletons.
In ethnic terms it's the same. Someone speaks a particular language, but it doesn't necessarily reflect their ancestry.
For ancestry we need DNA. That is the most reliable evidence.
In the case of the Olmec... they were from Soconusco where the Maya were, and they migrated to Veracruz where ALSO Mayan languages were spoken. Hmmmm... so what are the chances the Olmecs spoke a Mayan language? Pretty damned good.
Afro-Asiatic is African an origin meaning The ORIGINAL Berbers were Black African. Unless you believe White Berbers migrated from East Africa & INFLUENCED all the Africans who are Afro-Asiatic speakers.

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

Orlando, FL

#6884 Aug 18, 2012
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
HOW could Olmec be writing in Mande when Mande wasn't yet written at that time?
Do I need to have a linguist write another paper about Weiner to deal with this? No... the comparison is ludicrous, and so we just ignore it.
Likewise Libyco-Berber script is a ludicrous interpretation of Olmec writing.
Leo Weiner is a Linguists meaning has a degree. It would be different if a person who never went to school were makin' these claims as it would be ridiculous.
Barros Serrano

United States

#6885 Aug 18, 2012
Redefined wrote:
Another thing. The Basque, Native Americans & North African Berbers are suppose to have the highest % of O Blood. O Blood is the oldest blood group among Humans yet none of these groups are older than Africans. So were did their O blood come from?? No one still hasn't answered this.
Meaningless. Slavs have high % of O. So they must be Mande Hebrew Moorish Olmec too!!!
Barros Serrano

United States

#6886 Aug 18, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
Leo Weiner is a Linguists meaning has a degree. It would be different if a person who never went to school were makin' these claims as it would be ridiculous.
Everyone with a degree is always right?

And you're ignoring the basic problem... that script didn't exist in Olmec time!!!

This is the problem with linguists---they ignore the archaeological evidence. Just as they ignore the evidence for Olmec being a Mayan language. They look only at the language itself.

In any case, he's wrong. He's not the first person with a degree to be wrong.

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