Black men and the European Standard o...

Black men and the European Standard of attractiveness.

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Level 1

Since: Jun 07

Glenside, PA

#1 Oct 12, 2007
I have no doubt that everyone on this board has heard of the European or white standard of Beauty. The thing that is never really mentioned or talked about is how black men do or don't fit into this standard, and how they are affected by it. The are obviously standards of attractiveness that both sexes have for each other.

Most or should I say all of the complaints about the Euro/white standard of beauty are from black women and how it affects them. How does it affect black men. Does it makes us less attractive compared to white men or men of other races that have a similar feature set(sharp features, straight hair)?

From what I've seen black men's physical attractiveness is ignored by the main stream media. There are much, much more black female actresses that are sex-symbols than male actors.
In major sports(where black males make up the majority), when they have polls,or questions regarding the sexist male athelete in sports, black atheletes are never mentioned.

A lot of black women get angry when black men date outside there race and attribute it to the european standard of beauty, but why doesn't this standard affect the choices and prefrences of black women. They live in this world and see the same images and pattern that black men do.
Nicole Little

Philadelphia, PA

#3 Oct 12, 2007
Tito78 wrote:
I have no doubt that everyone on this board has heard of the European or white standard of Beauty. The thing that is never really mentioned or talked about is how black men do or don't fit into this standard, and how they are affected by it. The are obviously standards of attractiveness that both sexes have for each other.
Most or should I say all of the complaints about the Euro/white standard of beauty are from black women and how it affects them. How does it affect black men. Does it makes us less attractive compared to white men or men of other races that have a similar feature set(sharp features, straight hair)?
From what I've seen black men's physical attractiveness is ignored by the main stream media. There are much, much more black female actresses that are sex-symbols than male actors.
In major sports(where black males make up the majority), when they have polls,or questions regarding the sexist male athelete in sports, black atheletes are never mentioned.
A lot of black women get angry when black men date outside there race and attribute it to the european standard of beauty, but why doesn't this standard affect the choices and prefrences of black women. They live in this world and see the same images and pattern that black men do.
Tito78, this is a male-dominated country. They are not going to have a European standards of beauty for men. A man can be dark as tar, fat as a whale, and all and still get recgonize in this society, but when a woman looks like that, she will get kicked out of society. I believe you when you said that the majority of us is overweight, but what if we do lose weight, and we still get picked on about our butts, our legs being thick, what then, Tito78. It's a no-win situation when it comes to black women. Let's face it. America hates black women, especially the darker ones. That's why when dark-skinned black women make money, they are most likely going to move to another country where black women of ALL shades are more accepted. Even though colorism and racism is worldwide, there are certain countries that celebrate women of color more often than America. Take Britain for instance. I had a black beauty magazine from Britain, and I notice that the majority of black women that are in the magazine are brown and dark-skinned. The black female artists over there are brown and dark-skinned. If I have my chance, I would move over there. Even though there's colorism over there too, it's not as harsh as colorism in America because America was build on murder, thievery, and racism, and that's real talk. As a dark-skinned black woman in America, I'm considered the enemy. Black women of a darker hue, if you want peace and happiness, MOVE OVERSEAS!!!!

Since: Sep 07

Bronx, NY

#4 Oct 12, 2007
black men are in control of the media. men are not judged by the same standards as women. in Vibe, all i see is dark skin black men and light women. It's a never ending saga. but maybe you're right, maybe black men have the same weaknesses about beauty as black women. however, i've ALWAYS seen dark African American men everywhere in the media and light skin women and very rarely drak skin women. And men do the asking women on dates, so they usually pick, not the women. But these are all just excuses. You're making me think that dark men may have it as hard as us. I was just beginning to understand it recently and this just makes me think about it more. Yeah, i'll say that a lot of dark men don't like how they look so they don't like dark skin women, but i never took it a far as they could be discriminated because i see them everywhere. i'd like to discuss this more. Hey Nicole Little! Nice to see you back!
Franko

Coquitlam, Canada

#5 Oct 12, 2007
Yuna wrote:
black men are in control of the media. men are not judged by the same standards as women. in Vibe, all i see is dark skin black men and light women. It's a never ending saga. but maybe you're right, maybe black men have the same weaknesses about beauty as black women. however, i've ALWAYS seen dark African American men everywhere in the media and light skin women and very rarely drak skin women. And men do the asking women on dates, so they usually pick, not the women. But these are all just excuses. You're making me think that dark men may have it as hard as us. I was just beginning to understand it recently and this just makes me think about it more. Yeah, i'll say that a lot of dark men don't like how they look so they don't like dark skin women, but i never took it a far as they could be discriminated because i see them everywhere. i'd like to discuss this more. Hey Nicole Little! Nice to see you back!
YUna, this "welcome back" makes it sound like you've known her from before, but I thought you were new to TOPIX?

Since: Mar 07

Cartersville, GA

#6 Oct 12, 2007
Yuna wrote:
black men are in control of the media. men are not judged by the same standards as women. in Vibe, all i see is dark skin black men and light women. It's a never ending saga. but maybe you're right, maybe black men have the same weaknesses about beauty as black women. however, i've ALWAYS seen dark African American men everywhere in the media and light skin women and very rarely drak skin women. And men do the asking women on dates, so they usually pick, not the women. But these are all just excuses. You're making me think that dark men may have it as hard as us. I was just beginning to understand it recently and this just makes me think about it more. Yeah, i'll say that a lot of dark men don't like how they look so they don't like dark skin women, but i never took it a far as they could be discriminated because i see them everywhere. i'd like to discuss this more. Hey Nicole Little! Nice to see you back!
Black men are definately not in control of the media. Men in general face less pressure to look good than women do and what people think is beautiful is dictated by culture. A man can be weird looking, wrinkly and overweight and he can still get a lot of atttention and respect. It is different for women. In this society black people are looked down upon and "black features" are considered unattractive. Black women are probably the farthest away from meeting the standards of beauty in this society.
Nicole Little

Philadelphia, PA

#7 Oct 12, 2007
Yuna wrote:
black men are in control of the media. men are not judged by the same standards as women. in Vibe, all i see is dark skin black men and light women. It's a never ending saga. but maybe you're right, maybe black men have the same weaknesses about beauty as black women. however, i've ALWAYS seen dark African American men everywhere in the media and light skin women and very rarely drak skin women. And men do the asking women on dates, so they usually pick, not the women. But these are all just excuses. You're making me think that dark men may have it as hard as us. I was just beginning to understand it recently and this just makes me think about it more. Yeah, i'll say that a lot of dark men don't like how they look so they don't like dark skin women, but i never took it a far as they could be discriminated because i see them everywhere. i'd like to discuss this more. Hey Nicole Little! Nice to see you back!
The reason why you see more dark-skinned men and light skinned women is because a long time ago, and to this day, dark skin always represented masculinity and light or white skin always represented femininity. That's why you always see darker men with lighter women. It goes on in all races, even white people. The blond-haired white woman is always paired with a darker-haired white man, and that's real talk. If you read the above post that I've made, I explained that there are certain countries that are not as skin color bias as America. Ever though it exists everywhere in the world, it's not as SEVERE as America. I see it. The majority of dark-skinned black female models are from overseas, not America. Something to think about.

Since: Sep 07

Bronx, NY

#8 Oct 12, 2007
Franko wrote:
<quoted text>
YUna, this "welcome back" makes it sound like you've known her from before, but I thought you were new to TOPIX?
when i first came in the middle of September she was still here. So, i guess she's been gone like 2-3 weeks. it hasn't been long but it seems like forever! hehe!

Since: Sep 07

Bronx, NY

#9 Oct 12, 2007
muddphudle wrote:
<quoted text>
Black men are definately not in control of the media. Men in general face less pressure to look good than women do and what people think is beautiful is dictated by culture. A man can be weird looking, wrinkly and overweight and he can still get a lot of atttention and respect. It is different for women. In this society black people are looked down upon and "black features" are considered unattractive. Black women are probably the farthest away from meeting the standards of beauty in this society.
Black men are in control of their media. Like the magazines and music videos etc. True about how men are viewed differently. and of course black women would be opposite of the beauty ideal- we're opposite colors, opposite everything. doesn't mean it's right. there needs to be more acceptance of differences, i think.

Since: Sep 07

Bronx, NY

#10 Oct 12, 2007
Nicole Little wrote:
<quoted text>
The reason why you see more dark-skinned men and light skinned women is because a long time ago, and to this day, dark skin always represented masculinity and light or white skin always represented femininity. That's why you always see darker men with lighter women. It goes on in all races, even white people. The blond-haired white woman is always paired with a darker-haired white man, and that's real talk. If you read the above post that I've made, I explained that there are certain countries that are not as skin color bias as America. Ever though it exists everywhere in the world, it's not as SEVERE as America. I see it. The majority of dark-skinned black female models are from overseas, not America. Something to think about.
Yes, i agree in a way. This is how things are some places. There are probably some places in the world where dark is considered feminine and light is considered masculine. there always seems to be an opposite place. yin and yang. and just because it's this way now in American. Things can change. I don't think light is masculine or feminine, it's just light, same with dark.

Level 1

Since: Jun 07

Glenside, PA

#12 Oct 12, 2007
Nicole Little wrote:
<quoted text>
Tito78, this is a male-dominated country. They are not going to have a European standards of beauty for men. A man can be dark as tar, fat as a whale, and all and still get recgonize in this society, but when a woman looks like that, she will get kicked out of society. I believe you when you said that the majority of us is overweight, but what if we do lose weight, and we still get picked on about our butts, our legs being thick, what then, Tito78. It's a no-win situation when it comes to black women. Let's face it. America hates black women, especially the darker ones. That's why when dark-skinned black women make money, they are most likely going to move to another country where black women of ALL shades are more accepted. Even though colorism and racism is worldwide, there are certain countries that celebrate women of color more often than America. Take Britain for instance. I had a black beauty magazine from Britain, and I notice that the majority of black women that are in the magazine are brown and dark-skinned. The black female artists over there are brown and dark-skinned. If I have my chance, I would move over there. Even though there's colorism over there too, it's not as harsh as colorism in America because America was build on murder, thievery, and racism, and that's real talk. As a dark-skinned black woman in America, I'm considered the enemy. Black women of a darker hue, if you want peace and happiness, MOVE OVERSEAS!!!!
This is not male dominated country. Men of color are not the dominate ones in the media, or in business. The county or planet for that matter is dominated by WHITE males, so why wouldn't they construct a standard that would make white men the most desirable.
Nicole Little wrote:
<quoted text>
A man can be dark as tar, fat as a whale, and all and still get recgonize in this society, but when a woman looks like that, she will get kicked out of society.
If this is true, then where are the plus sized male models?? There are plus sized female models. Plus sized women with attractive faces can earn a living( a very good one), men can't. Why is this? If society,the media, and hollywood and is tougher on overweight women than men, then how come overweight women can earn a living in the modeling industry where as men can't.
Nicole Little wrote:
<quoted text>
As a dark-skinned black woman in America, I'm considered the enemy.
You realize you're talking to a black man. The Black man is the most feared man in the world. If anyone is considered "the ememy" it's us.
Franko

Coquitlam, Canada

#13 Oct 12, 2007
Yuna wrote:
<quoted text>when i first came in the middle of September she was still here. So, i guess she's been gone like 2-3 weeks. it hasn't been long but it seems like forever! hehe!
OK. It just gave the impression that yuo went back months ... LOL!!! TIme flies ...

Level 1

Since: Jun 07

Glenside, PA

#14 Oct 12, 2007
muddphudle wrote:
<quoted text>
Black men are definately not in control of the media. Men in general face less pressure to look good than women do and what people think is beautiful is dictated by culture. A man can be weird looking, wrinkly and overweight and he can still get a lot of atttention and respect. It is different for women. In this society black people are looked down upon and "black features" are considered unattractive. Black women are probably the farthest away from meeting the standards of beauty in this society.
muddphudle wrote:
<quoted text>
A man can be overweight and he can still get a lot of atttention and respect.
Explain the plus size modeling industry and why there are no plus sized male models. Plus sized women can earn a living(and a very good one)in the modeling industry, but men can't, why ??
muddphudle wrote:
<quoted text>
In this society black people are looked down upon and "black features" are considered unattractive. Black women are probably the farthest away from meeting the standards of beauty in this society.
Don't black men have black features also?
anita

United States

#15 Oct 12, 2007
For me....as a black woman...I like the way alot of men look...black,white etc. For me it's not so much the face. I like them cute but not cuter than me..it's more about how much of "a man" they are...The media blows everything out of proportion...nobody can tell me what I should or shouldn't like. If a man knows how to hold me and please me...I'm with him...who cares if his nose is the biggest thing on his face or if he's the color of burnt coal or white as a sheet. The question should be...is he going to be a monster in the bedroom...a provider...someone that doesn't get tired of me and throw me away....and not does his face look european enough....that doesn't matter and won't matter if he's beatin' your a** for breakfast, lunch and dinner...and that won't matter if he can't deliver between the sheets and you're stuck with him for the rest of your life because you don't want to be alone.
Nicole Little

Philadelphia, PA

#16 Oct 12, 2007
muddphudle wrote:
<quoted text>
Black men are definately not in control of the media. Men in general face less pressure to look good than women do and what people think is beautiful is dictated by culture. A man can be weird looking, wrinkly and overweight and he can still get a lot of atttention and respect. It is different for women. In this society black people are looked down upon and "black features" are considered unattractive. Black women are probably the farthest away from meeting the standards of beauty in this society.
Exactly!!! Like you said, it's based on CULTURE!!!! Just because you are considered unattractive in one culture doesn't mean that you are unattractive in another culture. Even though there's a preference for fair skin in women all across the globe, there are some countries that I've noticed that are more lenient towards brown/dark-skinned black women than America. I see it. You see, the American culture is dominated by White/Euro-Americans, so they are going to put their own beliefs, views, and beauty standards. I notice that the UK is a little more diverse than the US. The reason why black women are considered the least attractive is because the majority of black women don't fit into the European standards of beauty. That's why you see more light-skinned black women than dark-skinned black women because light-skinned black women are a little bit closer to the European standards, but even that's not good enough. Ask Beyonce. We live in a culture that is built on murder, racism, thievery, slavery, and greed, and African beauty (dark skin, wide nose, high cheekbones, full lips,brown eyes, thick thighs, big derierres, kinky hair) is considered unattractive and European beauty( white or light skin, long, straight, and/or blond hair, skinny figure, small nose, thin lips) is considered attractive. That's part of the reason why 70% of black women are single, as in, not married. It is because we lack what's considered beautiful in this country. It's the truth. Black women, if you want to be happy, go th overseas. Even though racism and colorism is everywhere, it's not as SEVERE as America.
Nicole Little

Philadelphia, PA

#17 Oct 12, 2007
Tito78 wrote:
<quoted text>
This is not male dominated country. Men of color are not the dominate ones in the media, or in business. The county or planet for that matter is dominated by WHITE males, so why wouldn't they construct a standard that would make white men the most desirable.
<quoted text>
If this is true, then where are the plus sized male models?? There are plus sized female models. Plus sized women with attractive faces can earn a living( a very good one), men can't. Why is this? If society,the media, and hollywood and is tougher on overweight women than men, then how come overweight women can earn a living in the modeling industry where as men can't.
<quoted text>
You realize you're talking to a black man. The Black man is the most feared man in the world. If anyone is considered "the ememy" it's us.
At least you are not judge by your looks. At least black men are the most desirable mates for women of ALL races when it comes to romance. We as black women in America have to work extra hard for anybody to want us. At least dark-skinned black men can be seen in movies, music videos, and everything. At least dark-skinned men are not discriminated as harsh as a dark-skinned woman. I'm speaking of experience.

“Technical Anomaly”

Since: Apr 07

Walnut Creek, OH

#18 Oct 12, 2007
Yuna wrote:
black men are in control of the media.
Good one!
Yuna wrote:
men are not judged by the same standards as women.
I think us black men are just sexy. Women like black guys, mixed guys, latin men, just any men with melanin.

However, it does seem that nobody wants to be too white, or too black.

However, men, are an exception; a man CAN be too dark.
Yuna wrote:
in Vibe, all i see is dark skin black men and light women.
In Smooth magazine, a magazin that IS of importance to men of ALL colors, you see a whole lot of black women, and usually a dark skin women. I mean, there is NEVER a mag without a dark skin women in the ones I have seen.

I haven't oogled a lot of them, nor do I own any, but I have opened a couple up - I am after all a guy.

There fore, I consider it unlikely that the ones I haven't seen - although the majority - are any different. I don't think a mag. would go from looking like it's from Harlem to looking like women in Colorado, or Wisconsen.

**********
BIG POINT:

Besides, if black men DO own THAT media, then where are the light brothers?(YOU said it was dark men / light women didn't you?)

Maybe these mags are owned by white women?

Or light skin women? Cause white women DO like light skin men.

Where are all the light brothas that all you women want?

“Interdependence is necessary”

Since: Oct 07

East Coast

#19 Oct 12, 2007
I thought white men were the most desirable. Not in regards to looks, but mainly wealth and power. In the white-dominated media of course you are going to see more white men toted as the image of masculine beauty, but we all see tv and read magazines, there are way to many sexy, fine black men out there for anyone to say that they are ugly. The most beautiful man in the world according to some magazines are ususally white men, so I guess black men do fall under the same category as black women, however, female beauty has always been valued far more than male beauty. That's why you hardly ever see rich powerful men, regardless of how they look, with ugly women or ugly women with gorgeous men, because it's the way the female looks that is always under scrutiny. Male beauty is appreciated and discussed on occasion, but the looks of the woman are always given more consideration. It's true that men will be faced with insecurity if they don't look a certain way, but they don't undergo quite as much pressure to remain beautiful. Look at how much criticism women face as they get older, men rarely are insulted because they look old.
Regarding big people, fat women, because they have always seemed to be given a hard deal regarding social acceptance, the industry has begun to try and recognize the appeal of being a big women. Men however don't have that option and though it may considered unfair, you don't hear much protest coming from big men regarding this.

All in all, I don't think women given into that standard of beauty as much as men do when it comes to choosing a life partnet. You will more than likely see more women with bad looking men than the other way around. Why? Because in today's society a man's appeal is not how face looks, but sadly, it's how his bank account looks. That's why beauty doesn't necessarily apply to man especially when he has money. If men fits a certain image whether it be thug, jock, entertainer, corporate shark, whatever, then women will flock to them because these men are known to possess certain things in those categories that are pleasing to a women. And that pleasing trait happens to be the ability to make money. Not all women are like that and I am not, but that is what is mainstream nowadays. That's why men that look like Donald Trump can get supermodels.
Nicole Little

Philadelphia, PA

#20 Oct 12, 2007
Tito78 wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>

Don't black men have black features also?
That's the whole point!!!! Thank you for saying that, Tito78!!!! You hit the nail. That's exactly how I was thinking. It amazes me that a black man who is very dark, nappy-headed with African features will diss a black woman who has the same features he got!!!! That's what I'm saying. The European standards of beauty is more geared towards WOMEN, not MEN!!!! I think that black men have more self-hatred than men of other races. If you don't agree, check out the XXL website, and click on the Eye Candy section!!!!

Level 1

Since: Jun 07

Glenside, PA

#21 Oct 12, 2007
Janet Jackson, Nia Long, Angela Basset, Garbelle Union, Maia Campbell,Sanaa Lathan, Tara Hicks, N'Bushe Wright,Tamala Jones, Melinda Williams, Kenya Moore, Lela Rochon, all have either brown or dark skin and dark eyes, and just every heterosexual man on the planet would considered all of them extremely attractive.
white-tupac

United States

#22 Oct 12, 2007
I know many european men; mostly italian and french; that only date and love dark black women. But the problem with black women is that they only date black thugs, and not nice respectful men becasue they are white. How stupid is that???

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