The Minoans were actually....

The Minoans were actually....

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Mike

Greenville, NH

#1 May 14, 2013
....finally, Scientists had discovered several perfectly preserved 4,000 year old Minoan skeletons sealed off in a collapsed cave and they were able to extract a multitude of DNA samples from them.

And so, after having so long since been claimed by Afrocentrists, the Minoans actually were...

http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology...
Asho

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#2 May 15, 2013
Mike wrote:
....finally, Scientists had discovered several perfectly preserved 4,000 year old Minoan skeletons sealed off in a collapsed cave and they were able to extract a multitude of DNA samples from them.
And so, after having so long since been claimed by Afrocentrists, the Minoans actually were...
http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology...
Funny, when it serves these scientist egyptians and Libyans are white/ caucasians. When it does not they are africans. When you bring E1b1b is europe, they claim E1b1b north africans as white/ caucasians.

"The researchers found that the Minoan skeletons were genetically very similar to modern-day Europeans -- and especially close to modern-day Cretans, particularly those from the Lassithi Plateau. They were also genetically similar to Neolithic Europeans, but distinct from Egyptian or Libyan populations."

“Sombrero Galaxy”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

I'm An Illegal Alien

#3 May 15, 2013
Duh.
UruEuWauWau

Brazil

#4 May 15, 2013
Even if based by the Minoan self-depiction, they always painted themselves (mostly women) white, cause they (Minoans) were white. ;-D
Anti-Fascism

United States

#5 May 15, 2013
Mike wrote:
....finally, Scientists had discovered several perfectly preserved 4,000 year old Minoan skeletons sealed off in a collapsed cave and they were able to extract a multitude of DNA samples from them.
And so, after having so long since been claimed by Afrocentrists, the Minoans actually were...
http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology...
Something I had strongly believed since I'd seen their art and read up on their history, anyway. This is not 'news' to me. Even with their darker color, I still figured it was simply from the males being out in the sun all day, every day, working on building structures, fishing on the open Mediterranean sea (basically same strength of sun as Egyptians put up with), or playing outdoors as children; seen in the one painting of the two boxing boys.

Sure, they can claim that they simply painted them darker in order to let others know the difference between male and female but, I believe this started mainly *because* males would always be darker from being in the sun all day, every day, thus they eventually equated "darker colors" with "masculinity."

One can see strong physical similarity between so-called "Minoans" and the Greek peoples in both of their ancient frescoes: curly black hair, brown eyes, usually males with tanned brown skin; same with females, only with light skin.
Mike

Greenville, NH

#6 May 15, 2013
Asho wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny, when it serves these scientist egyptians and Libyans are white/ caucasians. When it does not they are africans. When you bring E1b1b is europe, they claim E1b1b north africans as white/ caucasians.
"The researchers found that the Minoan skeletons were genetically very similar to modern-day Europeans -- and especially close to modern-day Cretans, particularly those from the Lassithi Plateau. They were also genetically similar to Neolithic Europeans, but distinct from Egyptian or Libyan populations."
No, they are saying they are distinct populations - and they absolutely are.

Nobody is saying Egyptians are or were "White," they are Eurasian, and as distinct from modern Europeans as many Asians are from modern Europeans. Arabs, and other Middle Eastern racial types, aren't "White" but they aren't sub Saharan African either.
Mike

Greenville, NH

#7 May 15, 2013
When people argue with loony Afrocentrists about most Egyptians, the Moors, etc. not being Sub Saharan African they're not automatically saying they were "white" by virtue of also pointing out the fact that they weren't black... what they are saying is that they're Eurasian, and are largely the same populations you'd see in the Middle East today. Are Arabs, Kurds, Berbers, etc. white? Not really, they are genetically distinct from "white" European populations. However, just because someone points out the fact that they aren't and weren't "Black" does not automatically mean they're implying that they're "White."

Sinajuavi
Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#8 May 15, 2013
Mike wrote:
When people argue with loony Afrocentrists about most Egyptians, the Moors, etc. not being Sub Saharan African they're not automatically saying they were "white" by virtue of also pointing out the fact that they weren't black... what they are saying is that they're Eurasian, and are largely the same populations you'd see in the Middle East today. Are Arabs, Kurds, Berbers, etc. white? Not really, they are genetically distinct from "white" European populations. However, just because someone points out the fact that they aren't and weren't "Black" does not automatically mean they're implying that they're "White."
Afronazis cannot grasp this. Everyone MUST be black or white.

To them, the word “Eurasian” means “white”, hence the non-stop hissy fit over the Eurasian Maghreb, Lower Egypt, Hebrews, etc.

Of course they have no real education in these matters, so naturally they are confused.
asho

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#9 May 15, 2013
Mike wrote:
<quoted text>
No, they are saying they are distinct populations - and they absolutely are.
Nobody is saying Egyptians are or were "White," they are Eurasian, and as distinct from modern Europeans as many Asians are from modern Europeans. Arabs, and other Middle Eastern racial types, aren't "White" but they aren't sub Saharan African either.
What scientific criteria do you use to classify arabs and modern north africans not white? In the US north africans and arabs are white. Was Hitler white since he belonged to E1b1b like north Africans?

Sinajuavi
Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#10 May 15, 2013
asho wrote:
<quoted text>
What scientific criteria do you use to classify arabs and modern north africans not white? In the US north africans and arabs are white. Was Hitler white since he belonged to E1b1b like north Africans?
Since “white” is an unscientific term invented by Euroimperialist post-Medieval racists, how can it be determined “scientifically”???

It is a bogus category! There is no such thing as a “white race”, nor a “black race”, for that matter.

Race does not exist. Racism, unfortunately, still does.

I do not use the term. I refer to Mideasterners or Eurasians, or even more accurately, refer to groups by their DNA haplotypes.

Ancient Egyptians were mixed, Africans (mostly northeastern L3 types) with Eurasians (mostly Mideastern types).
Mike

Greenville, NH

#11 May 15, 2013
asho wrote:
<quoted text>
What scientific criteria do you use to classify arabs and modern north africans not white? In the US north africans and arabs are white. Was Hitler white since he belonged to E1b1b like north Africans?
Using US Census criteria to determine who is or isn't "white" (or what "white" even is) is absolutely asinine. Those criteria change drastically nearly every decade, they're not scientifically-grounded by any means (they're largely culturally based), and the criteria in place now is a world apart from what it was, for example, just 70 years ago.

Hitler was a European, and if you're considering "White" as in the extremely closely related genetic group from which all modern day (native) Europeans descend (the group people refer to when speaking of English, German, Italian, French, Spanish, etc., and the same group the initial Minoan article I linked was referring to), then yes, he was white. I personally know nothing about Hitler's verified genetic ancestry, however belonging to a subset of the E1B1 haplotype (of which there are quite a few) does also occur within European populations:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.13...

And many are just now being discovered and are not yet completely understood. To imply that Hitler was recent North African ancestry seems silly to me (I personally couldn't care less and he's just about the most reprehensible leader in modern human history, but his family tree was pretty closely scrutinized and it was "German".)

As to how I would classify North Africans (Arabs and other "Middle Easterners"), I would classify them as a "Eurasian" people, generally genetically distinct from other Eurasian groups (like Europeans, East Asians, Native Americans, etc.)
Asho

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#12 May 15, 2013
Mike wrote:
<quoted text>
Using US Census criteria to determine who is or isn't "white" (or what "white" even is) is absolutely asinine. Those criteria change drastically nearly every decade, they're not scientifically-grounded by any means (they're largely culturally based), and the criteria in place now is a world apart from what it was, for example, just 70 years ago.
Hitler was a European, and if you're considering "White" as in the extremely closely related genetic group from which all modern day (native) Europeans descend (the group people refer to when speaking of English, German, Italian, French, Spanish, etc., and the same group the initial Minoan article I linked was referring to), then yes, he was white. I personally know nothing about Hitler's verified genetic ancestry, however belonging to a subset of the E1B1 haplotype (of which there are quite a few) does also occur within European populations:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.13...
And many are just now being discovered and are not yet completely understood. To imply that Hitler was recent North African ancestry seems silly to me (I personally couldn't care less and he's just about the most reprehensible leader in modern human history, but his family tree was pretty closely scrutinized and it was "German".)
As to how I would classify North Africans (Arabs and other "Middle Easterners"), I would classify them as a "Eurasian" people, generally genetically distinct from other Eurasian groups (like Europeans, East Asians, Native Americans, etc.)
I don't get it. What is new in the study you posted?
Mike

Greenville, NH

#13 May 15, 2013
Don't get what.... the brand new study, based around the preserved DNA of 4K year old bodies discovered in a Minoan cave, proving that they were in fact, beyond all shadow of a doubt, European?

Afrocentrists have been claiming the Minoans (and the Etruscans, etc.) as being "Black African" for years and years. The theories about the ancient European populations as being black African hinge upon this absurd "theory" ( http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancien... ), which that new study utterly destroys in every way imaginable:
Nyarlathotep

San Luis Obispo, CA

#14 May 15, 2013
So the first European Civilization was... European. Darker skinned Europeans of course, but still, Europeans.

This should finally make those Xenocidal Afrocentrics shut up about 'whits bein cavemen while weez wuz buildin pyramidz'. But sadly that won't happen, as it's only a matter of time before the messages screeching 'whit debil lyez' appear.
afrocentrics are crazy

Toronto, Canada

#15 May 15, 2013
The hitties were believed to be iran-european people , htey were even more powerful then the egyptians and have a capital named Hattusa, they have a word for water just like in english .They were around a long time ago.Check it out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hattusa

Also the peoples of Gobekli Tepe where from central europe and believed to be around long before hte egyptians , around 10000 bc which predates any society in the middle east or ancient egyptian by 5000 plus years

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeo...
Erik

Ardsley, NY

#16 May 15, 2013
Asho wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny, when it serves these scientist egyptians and Libyans are white/ caucasians. When it does not they are africans. When you bring E1b1b is europe, they claim E1b1b north africans as white/ caucasians.
"The researchers found that the Minoan skeletons were genetically very similar to modern-day Europeans -- and especially close to modern-day Cretans, particularly those from the Lassithi Plateau. They were also genetically similar to Neolithic Europeans, but distinct from Egyptian or Libyan populations."
North African populations carry predominant Eurasian markers so they are closer to Eurasian populations then Sub Saharan African populations.

What the paper means is the genetic make up of the Minoans carry genetic markers that do not show African origins but European or Eurasian origins. Their genetic make up is closer to Neolithic and modern Europeans. They did not find haplotypes that are common among sub Saharan Africans, no haplotype Ls. But neither did they find haplotypes that are common in North Africans. So instead of Haplogroup U6 the most common type found in North Africans, they found in Minoans the Paleolithic European U5, they also had a very high percentage over 40% of the
European haplogroup "H", modern Europeans still carry a high % over 40% of "H". Minoans also carried over 16% of haplogroup K, this marker is found through out Europe today but it is found at it highest in France, Norway,
Belgium, Bulgaria reaching over 17%, as well as its found at over 10% in Georgia, Austria and Britain. They also carried the predominant European haplogroup I at over 8%, the origins of this marker is said to be in the Carpathian Mountain region and it is found in modern Europeans across the continent. They also found haplogroups W, T, J, and X.

Sinajuavi
Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#17 May 15, 2013
Nyarlathotep wrote:
So the first European Civilization was... European. Darker skinned Europeans of course, but still, Europeans.
This should finally make those Xenocidal Afrocentrics shut up about 'whits bein cavemen while weez wuz buildin pyramidz'. But sadly that won't happen, as it's only a matter of time before the messages screeching 'whit debil lyez' appear.
In fact earlier civilization than Minoa appeared 6-5000 bce in SE Europe, that of Vinca. Minoa was influenced by Vinca, as were all later civilizations in the region. Even the writing of Sumer was derived from Vincan writing.

The nascent copper metallurgy and extensive trade networks of Vinca were the first such known anywhere and involved an estabished priesthood and elite government class, but little evidence of an army or constabulary, as the society of Vinca was peaceful and egalitarian. Nonetheless, its complexity makes it difficult not to call it “civilization”.
Asho

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#18 May 15, 2013
Mike wrote:
Don't get what.... the brand new study, based around the preserved DNA of 4K year old bodies discovered in a Minoan cave, proving that they were in fact, beyond all shadow of a doubt, European?
Afrocentrists have been claiming the Minoans (and the Etruscans, etc.) as being "Black African" for years and years. The theories about the ancient European populations as being black African hinge upon this absurd "theory" ( http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancien... ), which that new study utterly destroys in every way imaginable:
Am talking about the E1b1 study you posted. Btw the minoan genetic results in that study do not tell us which european markers were found in 4k remains. Could it be the european E1b1b which entered europe with introduction of farming from the levant and spread along the med coast?
Erik

Ardsley, NY

#19 May 16, 2013
Asho wrote:
<quoted text>
Am talking about the E1b1 study you posted. Btw the minoan genetic results in that study do not tell us which european markers were found in 4k remains. Could it be the european E1b1b which entered europe with introduction of farming from the levant and spread along the med coast?
I posted the Minoan genetic results in my previous message. They carried overwhelmingly European genetic markers mDNA What the paper means is the genetic make up of the Minoans carry genetic the Paleolithic European U5, they had a high percentage over 40% of the European haplogroup "H", modern Europeans still carry a high % over 40% of "H". Minoans also carried over 16% of haplogroup K, this marker is found through out Europe today but it is found at it highest in France, Norway, Belgium, Bulgaria reaching over 17%, as well as its found at over 10% in Georgia, Austria and Britain. They also carried the predominant European haplogroup I at over 8%, the origins of this marker is said to be in the Carpathian Mountain
region and it is found in modern Europeans across the continent. They also found haplogroups W, T, J, and X.

So the Minoan genetic results from this study were the European U, H, K, T, J, W and X.
Justice unlimited

Stockholm, Sweden

#20 May 16, 2013
Erik wrote:
<quoted text>
I posted the Minoan genetic results in my previous message. They carried overwhelmingly European genetic markers mDNA What the paper means is the genetic make up of the Minoans carry genetic the Paleolithic European U5, they had a high percentage over 40% of the European haplogroup "H", modern Europeans still carry a high % over 40% of "H". Minoans also carried over 16% of haplogroup K, this marker is found through out Europe today but it is found at it highest in France, Norway, Belgium, Bulgaria reaching over 17%, as well as its found at over 10% in Georgia, Austria and Britain. They also carried the predominant European haplogroup I at over 8%, the origins of this marker is said to be in the Carpathian Mountain
region and it is found in modern Europeans across the continent. They also found haplogroups W, T, J, and X.
So the Minoan genetic results from this study were the European U, H, K, T, J, W and X.
Ok are the 4k remains found in a cave all they got to conclusively dismiss african presence and contribution to the minoan culture? We have seen paintings of what seemed to be black people on artifacts. The surrouningd regions have plenty of E1b1b introduced to Europe with neolithic farmers from the Levant 10k ago.

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