hmm

Detroit, MI

#16301 Oct 2, 2011
Daniel wrote:
I already think you're stupid.
The phrase "negro race" was in the western vernacular long before the Haitian revolution. Portuguese were using it in the 1500s and the Virginia high court of the 1630s used it to specifically segregate black people "as a RACE".
<quoted text>
Also, the Portuguese, "Negro Race" would not include alot of African Americans or Haitians. If you are going by that term than you might not be in the negro race! I don't know about you, but I am brown colored, not black colored. I am a part of the black race, but my skin color is brown not black.
Daniel

Adrian, MI

#16302 Oct 3, 2011
Numbskull the one-drop-rule didn't start with Haiti.

The Octoroons and what nots were still considered black BY whites. You didn't have Mulengeons and what not all over America, just in one small part of appalachia.

And beyond that, still, being black in America did not get it's inspiration from Haiti. Maybe Haiti played a role, but more likely was the slave revolts in AMERICA played a greater role as did the basically immoral activities that a lot of mixed raced people experienced and witnessed like Frederick Douglass who was "half-white".

Many people who were Octoroon qudroon or whaver like Thomas jefferson's kids who were 80% white were still born into slavery.

This is preposterous, Haiti did not inspire that.
hmm wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said before what WE TODAY consider the black race was started in Haiti. I will give you proof. Here is how black people were categorized in the census of 1890:For 1890, the Census Office changed the design of the population questionnaire. Residents were still listed individually, but a new questionnaire sheet was used for each family. Additionally, this was the first year that the census distinguished between different East Asian races, such as Japanese and Chinese, due to increased immigration. This census also marked the beginning of the term “race” in the questionnaires. Enumerators were instructed to write "White," "Black," "Mulatto," "Quadroon," "Octoroon," "Chinese," "Japanese," or "Indian."
Just so you know, Mulatto, Quadroon, and Ocroroon are mixed people with different degrees of white admixture.
hmm

Detroit, MI

#16303 Oct 4, 2011
Daniel wrote:
Numbskull the one-drop-rule didn't start with Haiti.
The Octoroons and what nots were still considered black BY whites. You didn't have Mulengeons and what not all over America, just in one small part of appalachia.
And beyond that, still, being black in America did not get it's inspiration from Haiti. Maybe Haiti played a role, but more likely was the slave revolts in AMERICA played a greater role as did the basically immoral activities that a lot of mixed raced people experienced and witnessed like Frederick Douglass who was "half-white".
Many people who were Octoroon qudroon or whaver like Thomas jefferson's kids who were 80% white were still born into slavery.
This is preposterous, Haiti did not inspire that.
<quoted text>
Lol, so are you saying black people wrote the census.
Also:
Both before and after the American Civil War, many people of mixed ancestry who "looked white" and were of mostly white ancestry were legally absorbed into the white majority. State laws established differing standards. For instance, in 1822 Virginia law stated that to be defined as "mulatto" (that is, multi-racial), a person had to have at least one-quarter (equivalent to one grandparent) African ancestry.
Lol, and you still weren't black, you were Mulatto,lol
hmm

Detroit, MI

#16304 Oct 4, 2011
Actually, from 1804 to 1960 in my opinion Haitians have been the leaders of the "black race," indeed, they invented it. For example, did you know that W.E.B. Dubois, the founder of the NAACP had a Haitian father. Also, in the 19th century, one of the Europeans who helped invent Nazi ideology wrote a racist book called on the inequality of the races, and it was a Haitian author named Antenor Firmin, who wrote a rebuttal called on the equality of the races.(He also predicted that the U.S. would become a superpower and have a black president: Just thought I would put that in there)
hmm

Detroit, MI

#16305 Oct 4, 2011
Actually, in my opinion, the violence of the Haitian revolution was the cause of the violence African Americans experienced at the hands of whites in America, even though AAs were and still are a generally peaceful and inclusive community despite what you hear on the news. I think the reason for the violence in Detroit is drugs, which we both know were put into black communities by the government.
Daniel

United States

#16306 Oct 4, 2011
Oh now you confuse yourself.

Whites didn't get inspiration to enumerate the black race based on Haiti's revolution. Try again
hmm wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol, so are you saying black people wrote the census.
Also:
Both before and after the American Civil War, many people of mixed ancestry who "looked white" and were of mostly white ancestry were legally absorbed into the white majority. State laws established differing standards. For instance, in 1822 Virginia law stated that to be defined as "mulatto" (that is, multi-racial), a person had to have at least one-quarter (equivalent to one grandparent) African ancestry.
Lol, and you still weren't black, you were Mulatto,lol
hmm

Detroit, MI

#16307 Oct 4, 2011
Daniel wrote:
Oh now you confuse yourself.
Whites didn't get inspiration to enumerate the black race based on Haiti's revolution. Try again
<quoted text>
But they did. You see, the U.S. occupied Haiti in 1915 until about 1930. During this time many aspects of Haitian culture came to the U.S.(zomies, voodoo). Also, the 1930 census was the first to list black and mixed people all as black, so my hypothesis is it came from Haiti. I could be wrong, but whites had no incentive to unite people against them. You see how when they went to Africa they were sure to split blacks into as many races as possible. You have to understand that race is not a scientific thing. It has been made up for political purposes. Nationality and ethnicity are similar concepts.
hmm

Detroit, MI

#16308 Oct 5, 2011
Daniel wrote:
Oh now you confuse yourself.
Whites didn't get inspiration to enumerate the black race based on Haiti's revolution. Try again
<quoted text>
And not the revolution, but the racial identity in the state of Haiti during that time.
Also, what do you think about this statement made by the Emperor Menelik II of Ethiopia to a Haitian intellectual trying to start an organization for the amelioration of the black race:'I am not a Negro at all; I am a Caucasian' the Emperor Menelik told the West Indian pan-Africanist Benito Sylvian who had come to Addis Ababa to solicit the Emperor's leadership in a society for the 'Amelioration of the Negro race.'

Also, Haile Selassie: Haile Sellassie confirmed that view in a declaration to Chief H. O. Davis, a well known Nigerian nationalist, stating that the Ethiopians did not regard themselves as Africans, but as 'a mixed Hamito-Semitic people.
hmm

Detroit, MI

#16309 Oct 7, 2011
Daniel wrote:
Oh now you confuse yourself.
Whites didn't get inspiration to enumerate the black race based on Haiti's revolution. Try again
<quoted text>
Also, in my opinion African Americans and Haitians are the same people. We are both part of the black race are we not? Also, during slavery Haitians took African Americans, gave them land, and citizenship and settled them in Haiti. They even had a law that any black person (and later native american) that came there would be given freedom and citizenship. At the time the Dominican Republic was a part of Haiti, and now the descendants of those African Americans live on the Samana Peninsula in the Dominican Republic. Honestly Haiti makes me proud to be black. You speak about Frederick Douglas, but even he went to Haiti and was inspired by it and wrote about it. South Americans, especially Hugo Chavez say they owe Haiti a historic debt for helping them fight Spain. Bill Clinton (and white Americans before him) say that America owes haiti a historic debt for helping them fight the British. I'm glad black people and white people get along now, but I think it's time black americans recognize that we also owe Haiti the same historical debt. To me it takes knowing what it really means to be black to know that Ethiopians (Tigrayans, Amhara) are not.
Daniel

Adrian, MI

#16310 Oct 7, 2011
Im ok with haitians and African Americansbeing the same raceand even being more than that. But this isn't about me trying to separate haiti and certainly nhot about me trying to divide black people up.

Im saying that it wasnt haiti that had generated this notion.
hmm

Detroit, MI

#16311 Oct 8, 2011
Daniel wrote:
Im ok with haitians and African Americansbeing the same raceand even being more than that. But this isn't about me trying to separate haiti and certainly nhot about me trying to divide black people up.
Im saying that it wasnt haiti that had generated this notion.
Well you are entitled to your opinion. That is just my opinion. I don't even think anyone could really say either of us are right or wrong. Like I said, this is my "hypothesis," because the word race used to be synonymous with the word nationality and I just don't think anyone would be stupid enough to try to make a separate nationality inside their own nation that could potentially be hostile to them.
hmm

Detroit, MI

#16312 Oct 8, 2011
And I don't think all Ethiopians of any ethnic group are racist, but they still are not black
Daniel

Adrian, MI

#16313 Oct 8, 2011
and I talk to Ethiopians all the time and they are black. They say it. History says it.

THere is no way here in America where you have black poeple mixed with 20% extremely white Northwest European on average..... some as high as 50% are "black" and Ethiopians who are next to Kenya, who look blacker than the average African American...

Light brown skinned Ludakris is black because he has what, slightly thicker lips? He looks more Ethiopian than Ethiopians. But he's black, but I find a darker skinned Ethiopian with the same features and maybe thinner lips. Oh he's not black. Because what, his forehead goes up and down straighter and some DNA from some Arab or Jewish ancestor 2000 years ago somehow exempts him.

Stupid

No way you're going to say they aren't black.

It's even more absurd, because if Ethiopia isn't black, then what is Kenya, right next door? half-black? Kenya is halfway black.... hilarious.
Daniel

Adrian, MI

#16314 Oct 8, 2011
all this blah blah about the fictional hamitic race and the magical black people that came from mars, and how Ethiopians aren't black because of foreheads and some DNA that no one has ever cared about until 1955.

Wow. If we keep this up we can reduce the black race to a village in Nigeria and a couple of neighborhoods in cities in the USA, because everyone else would be not black.

I got a white grandparent, she has a native american ancestor, that one has a chinese great grandparent in Jamaica, this one has an arab ancestor from 1200 years ago, this one has wavy hair, that one has a forehead at 90 degrees,

I mean because you know, unlike EVERYONE ELSE on the planet, black people have to look just like "this" and just like "that".

You guys hate black people so much you explain your hamitic nonsense, and talk about how the entire human race came from Noah's ark, but you can't seem to explain where black people came from because oh wait the aren't "hamitic".
Daniel

Adrian, MI

#16315 Oct 8, 2011
so you guys can blow me with your serious anti-black propaganda (we aren't even a part of the Biblical story of humanity even though we lived in the region now), and your racism (we were segregated so much that even in Ethiopia, the black ones that look prettier to you clowns are just Caucasians with a tan).

I have talked to about 3 dozen Ethiopians. They don't know what the heck any of your are talking about. I keep hearing that you are either eritreans, or arabs trying to cause problems because you are racist arab nationalists that hate Ethiopia so much for not converting to Islam. But every one is saying they are black and they find it hilarious that black people in America that are mixed with very very white scottish, irish, and german genes are somehow more black than they are.

So no, all of your crap responses are resoundedly rejected.

I'm beyond bored now. The entire conversation is boooooring.
Daniel

Adrian, MI

#16316 Oct 8, 2011
Well your hypothesis has been blown away by my evidence.
hmm wrote:
<quoted text>
Well you are entitled to your opinion. That is just my opinion. I don't even think anyone could really say either of us are right or wrong. Like I said, this is my "hypothesis," because the word race used to be synonymous with the word nationality and I just don't think anyone would be stupid enough to try to make a separate nationality inside their own nation that could potentially be hostile to them.
hmm

Detroit, MI

#16317 Oct 8, 2011
Daniel wrote:
Well your hypothesis has been blown away by my evidence.
<quoted text>
In that case show me evidence of the one drop rule before 1915
hmm

Detroit, MI

#16318 Oct 8, 2011
Daniel wrote:
Well your hypothesis has been blown away by my evidence.
<quoted text>
However, I can show you evidence of the one drop rule in Haiti in 1805. Here is article 14 of the original Haitian constitution.

All acception of colour among the children of one and the same family, of whom the chief magistrate is the father, being necessarily to cease, the Haytians shall hence forward be known only by the generic appellation of Blacks.
hmm

Detroit, MI

#16319 Oct 8, 2011
Daniel wrote:
so you guys can blow me with your serious anti-black propaganda (we aren't even a part of the Biblical story of humanity even though we lived in the region now), and your racism (we were segregated so much that even in Ethiopia, the black ones that look prettier to you clowns are just Caucasians with a tan).
I have talked to about 3 dozen Ethiopians. They don't know what the heck any of your are talking about. I keep hearing that you are either eritreans, or arabs trying to cause problems because you are racist arab nationalists that hate Ethiopia so much for not converting to Islam. But every one is saying they are black and they find it hilarious that black people in America that are mixed with very very white scottish, irish, and german genes are somehow more black than they are.
So no, all of your crap responses are resoundedly rejected.
I'm beyond bored now. The entire conversation is boooooring.
Well, maybe I am wrong, I guess I will hav to talk to more Ethiopians.
Daniel

Adrian, MI

#16320 Oct 8, 2011
One drop rule was established by whites trying to maintain their silly notions of racial purity. That came about due to German interpretations of darwinian thought, not some Haitian revolution over 100 years prior.
hmm wrote:
<quoted text>
In that case show me evidence of the one drop rule before 1915

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