Lincoln: 'Flawed Emanicipator'?

Oct 5, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Examiner.com

The much anticipated Lincoln Trailer Debuts During Google Hangout Discussion with Steven Spielberg and Joseph Gordon-Levitt.

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“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

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Lincoln was not really an abolitionist though some of his writings seem to indicate that he was personally opposed to slavery. Mainly he was a "centrist liberal" politician.

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FlowFighter, I watched it on MSNBC when it happened and it was sick listening to them praise the police that did this because they worship Obama. So do most black men it seems like. That's why black women are stupid for getting upset over this Trayvon Martin mess. He had it coming more than she did.
Johnny

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Oct 6, 2013
 

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Savant wrote:
Lincoln was not really an abolitionist though some of his writings seem to indicate that he was personally opposed to slavery. Mainly he was a "centrist liberal" politician.
__________

Yes, Abraham Lincoln was personally opposed to slavery.

I would consider Abraham as not being a die hard type of abolitionist. I'd consider Abraham to be a lukewarm abolitionist.

Lincoln did not consider the African American slaves as being equal.

American slavery was not at the forefront of the outbreak of the United States Civil War.

American slavery was not at the forefront of the Civil War being fought throughout its duration.

From a political standpoint, Abraham could not have outwardly stated that the North was fighting the Civil War because of Northern banking & business interests.

Johnny

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Oct 6, 2013
 

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Savant wrote:
Mainly he was a "centrist liberal" politician.
__________

I would say that Abraham Lincoln was more of a centrist / Rightist politician.

Abraham did not consider the African American slaves to be equal.

Lincoln put forward the Emancipation Proclamation back in January, 1863.---- This was well after the start of the Civil War.

Abraham only put forward the Emancipation Proclamation as a rallying cry for the North.

Lincoln did this, to make it look like the Norths "cause" in fighting the Civil War was "just" & "noble".

The timing of Abraham putting forward the Emancipation Proclamation.---- The Norths armies were not doing well at all in the Civil War. Especially in the Eastern Theater of operations.

Lincoln also put forward the Emancipation Proclamation to prevent England & France from supporting the Confederate forces.
Johnny

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Savant ---

American slavery was not at the forefront of the United States Civil War being fought.

Abraham Lincoln, pretty much all of the Republican & Democrat politicians in Washington D.C. back then did not consider the African American slaves to be equal.

Abraham made a comment during his presidency where he stated.---- "That the only way Whites & Negroes would get along would be if they'd be an ocean apart".

At one time during Lincolns presidency, he was watching some young African American kids doing a theatrical play. Abraham made an outward comment where he said --- "Ha, are these little monkeys funny".

Lincoln, pretty much all of the Republican & Democrat politicians in Washington D.C. back then were in favor of rounding up African Americans & deporting them.

When the Civil War ended.--- Due to Abrahams assassination & due to the high financial costs which would have been involved of rounding up & deporting, the deportation plan was shelved.

So, American banking interests, business interests & the politicians in Washington D.C. back then.---Decided to use the newly freed African Americans as a very cheap labor supply in agriculture & in industry.

To maybe use African Americans as a constituency in a voting bloc.

Had the deportation plan gone forward, these areas would have taken in the deported African Americans.----

The nation of Haiti. Areas in what are now the present day nations of Guyana, Belize & Panama.

The African Americans who were to be deported to Panama, were to be put to work on building a canal. This was decades before work ever began on the modern canal in Panama.

But, the main nation which was to take in most of the deported African Americans was the West African nation of Liberia. Liberia was created by the United States federal government back in 1821. Specifically for this purpose.

This was decades even before the United States Civil War broke out.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

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Oct 7, 2013
 

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FlowFighter wrote:
<quoted text>
Savant..why isn't your loudmouth btchazz in an uproar over the murder of that BW by the DC cops??....you're right around the corner there in baltimore...and where the F are all those young nouveau revolutionary 'coons' you were shooting your trap off about a few days ago ..packin' the auditorium of an HBCU to her angela speak.. really? wher are they now?..huh??
They are-thus far-like you i.e. FOS..when pigs pulled this type of sht back in my day..we rocked and rolled MF..
real talk
First of all, you are never to post to me again without respect, pig. And make sure that whatever comments you do make are RELEVANT to the conservation or to the comment to which you are replying.
We were supposed to be discussiong LINCOLN, and whether he was a flawed emancipator.
If you want to discuss something else choose or create a different thread. Do NOT make replies to any of my comments unless they are RELEVANT.

If you've a relevant reply to my comments on this issue, then I will entertain them

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

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Johnny wrote:
<quoted text>
__________
I would say that Abraham Lincoln was more of a centrist / Rightist politician.
Abraham did not consider the African American slaves to be equal.
Lincoln put forward the Emancipation Proclamation back in January, 1863.---- This was well after the start of the Civil War.
Abraham only put forward the Emancipation Proclamation as a rallying cry for the North.
Lincoln did this, to make it look like the Norths "cause" in fighting the Civil War was "just" & "noble".
The timing of Abraham putting forward the Emancipation Proclamation.---- The Norths armies were not doing well at all in the Civil War. Especially in the Eastern Theater of operations.
Lincoln also put forward the Emancipation Proclamation to prevent England & France from supporting the Confederate forces.
Right and Left are historical in meaning, and by the standards of THAT time, Lincoln was centrist with left leanings. Actually, he was opposed to slavery as the Kennedy's were later opposed to Jim Crow, But Lincoln, like Kennedy, was a POLITICIANS. He had to be pushed into taking an anti-slavery stand. For while his speeches and letters reveal an anti-Slavery sentiment, Lincoln like all politicians first think of political interest.
Abolitionism and the requirements of war did push Lincoln--after Gettysburg victory--to issue the Emancipation Proclamation. This DID give the North now a MORAL advantage, both nationally and internationally. Northern armies were just invaders but--as one Union soldier put it in a letter to his family--"we are now the ARMED LIBERATERS of millions." Southerners couldn't just say that they were defending themselves and their "way of life" from invaders, for now they were clearly defending slavery.(In fact, they always were but could no longer hide this fact in the court of world opinion).
European countries were undecided about how to respond; conservative privileged classes were sympathetic to the South, and the laboring classes--always mroe advanced than American workers--clearly sided with the North.(I've read some letters by European workers to Lincoln in which they clearly saw slavery and the most degrading exploitation of labor, and the defeat of the Confederacy as in the interests of all working class people. Also, read Karl Marx's letter in support of Lincoln and the Union. Marx was not supporting a right wing cause).
Lincoln had to be PUSHED to the left. That I will agree with. But the REAL right coldn't be pushed to end a systme of bondage than enriched them. They had to be CRUSHED.

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Lincoln spoke of a dislike for slavery, early on...as it was the reasoning, his Father had told him, they moved from Kentucky to Indiana.....
I M WHITE

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“There is no room for two distinct races of White men in America, much less for two distinct races of Black and White. I can conceive of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the Negro into our social and political life as our equal…. Within twenty years we can peacefully colonize the Negro [to Africa] and give him our language, literature, religion, and system of government under conditions in which he can rise to the full measure of manhood. This he can never do here. We can never attain the ideal union our fathers dreamed, with millions of an alien, inferior race among us, whose assimilation is neither possible nor desirable.”- Abraham Lincoln, after the signing of his Emancipation Proclamation.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

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FlowFighter wrote:
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Respect??...F you...it's earned bitchazz..not demanded.
Post to you again??...No need to..I made my point.
Also, stay out of my thread "Revolutionary Black Films". Au revoir, espece d'idiot.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

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Go Blue Forever wrote:
Lincoln spoke of a dislike for slavery, early on...as it was the reasoning, his Father had told him, they moved from Kentucky to Indiana.....
He was not another Wendell Phillips, but he was against slavery. but he also imagined that he could save the republic by avoiding the issue of slavery while he was president.

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Savant wrote:
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He was not another Wendell Phillips, but he was against slavery. but he also imagined that he could save the republic by avoiding the issue of slavery while he was president.
I've never read anything that really promoted that theory....is it your own?...

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Johnny wrote:
<quoted text>
__________
Yes, Abraham Lincoln was personally opposed to slavery.
I would consider Abraham as not being a die hard type of abolitionist. I'd consider Abraham to be a lukewarm abolitionist.
Lincoln did not consider the African American slaves as being equal.
American slavery was not at the forefront of the outbreak of the United States Civil War.
American slavery was not at the forefront of the Civil War being fought throughout its duration.
From a political standpoint, Abraham could not have outwardly stated that the North was fighting the Civil War because of Northern banking & business interests.
What banking and business interests? That doesn't tell us what was the motive.

The fact is, the northern capitalists wanted slavery to end because it was not good economically, it inhibited southern industrialization and so on.

It still was about slavery, even if the motive was just business rather than moral outrage.

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FlowFighter wrote:
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"the northern capitalists wanted slavery to end because it was not good economically,"
MF'n moron..the northeast based textiles industry loved the availability of cheap slave produced cotton from the south..
furthermore an industrialized south would not necessarily have been in the best economic interests of the north.
dmb bstrd
Pay atttention, boy. You watch your mouth when addressing your betters. Got that, boy?

Then what were the interests of northern bankers in fighting the Civil War, you raving nitwit? Oh perhaps they'd have been building the factories, since the southerners had no expertise.

You don't want to start up with me, boy. You can't win in Topix and you can't win in person.

Grow a pair and then get back to us, eh, boy?
BIgKnob

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Abraham Lincoln's letter to Horace Greenly:

I am not nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social & political equality of the white and black races---that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negros, nor qualifying them to intermarry white (women) people..........there must be the position of superior and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior postion assigned to the white race.

They never taught this Abe Lincoln in public schools, now you see why..........
Scholar 86

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I have heard that the main reason the Civil War was fought was the issue of state's rights, slavery was a factor but it wasn't the main factor. At least not at first.
Scholar 86

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BIgKnob wrote:
Abraham Lincoln's letter to Horace Greenly:
I am not nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social & political equality of the white and black races---that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negros, nor qualifying them to intermarry white (women) people..........there must be the position of superior and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior postion assigned to the white race.
They never taught this Abe Lincoln in public schools, now you see why..........
As much as I have read about history ON MY OWN, few things surprise me. There were many who were against slavery, but not for equality.
BIgKnob

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Scholar 86 wrote:
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As much as I have read about history ON MY OWN, few things surprise me. There were many who were against slavery, but not for equality.
Around 1966 Martin Luther King jr. found that out, thats why he became more militant towards the end of his life.....still today alot of people hate to see black folks independant and doing things for themselves, its what I call the post slave owner mentality, that you must always be under the tuteledge of, and rely on the benevolence of white america, and never build, create businesses, and institutions, to preserve black culture, history, business for the future generations and that will keep your children's, childrens suffering..........

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FlowFighter wrote:
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"Then what were the interests of northern bankers in fighting the Civil War"
same as always..war profiteering..
"You don't want to start up with me, boy. You can't win in Topix and you can't win in person."
blah..blah..blah...go lick a trd...and take a nap..LOL!!!!!
You're historically illiterate, boy.

The northerners had long wanted the south to industrialize. They were aware of the problem created by having 2 distinct economic systems in the same country, and the southern slave system was anachronistic, inefficient, and impeded development.

You know nothing of any of this, boy. So you need to shut up and let the educated intelligent folks do the talking.

Meanwhile you can do whatever you're good at... lol...

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Scholar 86 wrote:
I have heard that the main reason the Civil War was fought was the issue of state's rights, slavery was a factor but it wasn't the main factor. At least not at first.
That “states rights” line you heard from Southern apologists. Confederats.

The “right” those states wanted was the right to own slaves. The issues of tariffs and all other BS they bring up all was dependent on slavery. Tariffs disproportionately affected the South because of slavery.

Face it, many white Southerners were evil enough to put the country through a prolonged bloody war in order to preserve their evil bloody slavery system.

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