Englands first black Queen

[justmeagain]

Ric Ricland wrote:

<quoted text>
I found the painting of Queen Charlotte startling because I've never seen it before. It's obviously a work of Ramsey, and I'm assuming it's been hid from the public because it shows a woman with features of questionable orgin.
I've seen other paintings of Charlotte, her coronation painting by Ramsey, which depicts a woman with the same, if not more of an ethnic look.
I'd like to know a few tings: do you have any more paintings of Charlotte, how did you come by that one, and what is the English translation of the text below?
Thanks

use google translation from deutsch to english

[Ric Ricland]

justmeagain wrote:

<quoted text>use google translation from deutsch to english

Will you butt out?

ricland

[justmeagain]

Ric Ricland wrote:

<quoted text>
Will you butt out?
ricland

lol your welcome ric

[justmeagain]

Egmond Codfried wrote:

REVERSED APARTHEID
The many portraits of the black and coloured European nobility, kings, emperors and intellectuals should be understood as a black elite in Europe from the Renaissance till the French Revolution. They showed their black descend with The Moor symbol. This symbol means Bleu blood. It was a true ancestor or a mythical ancestor. Important is to realise that there are portraits of pitch black elite Europeans which show them as white, with blond hair and blue eyes. Some portraits are half whitened and show white skin but also some ethnic features. The key is the personal descriptions which describes them as black, brown, swarthy, not the white hands, bad complexion and of low birth. All are euphemisms for black skin. The hatred against blacks comes from this episode when this, intermarrying, fixed mulatto race despotically dominated Europe and when they made the black face of a African youth or king the proof of their superiority over whites.
[e-mail]
Omgekeerde apartheid 1500-1789
http://www.network54.com/Forum/133847/thread/...
Zwarte portretten van Willem van Oranje
http://www.network54.com/Forum/133847/thread/...
Zwarte adel weggemoffeld
http://www.gebladerte.nl/11226f77.htm
Volk van Nederland
http://home.casema.nl/wilschut/ahvvn.htm

those links are very interesting to read thank you
Die links zijn zeer interessant om te lezen dank u

[lovable1]

There is just so much out there that we learn everyday. I had never heard of such a thing.

[BrooklynJoao]

sthldn girl wrote:

<quoted text>well here in the uk the nf and bnp disagree..and if the kkk were here they would disagree to,,my dad is middle eastern,,he is not white,,
i really couldnt care less what wikpedia says,,in real life white people here dont class them as"white"...and if you saw my dad you would never class him as white either,,,(:
i suggest some americans need to put there wikpedia on hold and go travel the world....

Yep! You are right! I agree with you. I am sure anyone who's cultured wouldn't look at your dad and say, "There goes a white man!". LOL As a matter of fact, go and tell anyone who is "middle eastern" that they are white. I am sure you would be quickly corrected. Come on now!:)

[Mr Giblets]

Tsalagi wrote:

Queen Charlotte Sophia, wife of King George III was a light skinned black woman.

really! is there any nonsense not too stupid for these idiots to believe? So, now to be black, you don't even have to be black any more! Do they go somewhere to train to get this stupid?

[Ric Ricland]

Mr Giblets wrote:

<quoted text>really! is there any nonsense not too stupid for these idiots to believe? So, now to be black, you don't even have to be black any more! Do they go somewhere to train to get this stupid?

What are your ranting about, meathead?

Do you know the circumstances surrounding the claim or did you just wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

ricland

[mr Giblets]

Ric Ricland wrote:

<quoted text>
What are your ranting about, meathead?
Do you know the circumstances surrounding the claim or did you just wake up on the wrong side of the bed?
ricland

you are really stupid if you actually believe any of this! are you trying to claim that all white people are black? why? get a real education, for god's sake.

[Queen Nyabinghi]

justmeagain wrote:

Queen Philippa: England's First Black Queen
England's First Black Queen, Mother of the Black Prince
Philippa was the daughter of William of Hainault, a lord in part of what is now Belgium. When she was nine the King of England, Edward II, decided that he would marry his son, the future Edward III, to her, and sent one of his bishops, a Bishop Stapeldon, to look at her. He described her thus:
"The lady whom we saw has not uncomely hair, betwixt blue-black and brown. Her head is cleaned shaped; her forehead high and broad, and standing somewhat forward. Her face narrows between the eyes, and the lower part of her face is still more narrow and slender than the forehead. Her eyes are blackish brown and deep. Her nose is fairly smooth and even, save that is somewhat broad at the tip and flattened, yet it is no snub nose. Her nostrils are also broad, her mouth fairly wide. Her lips somewhat full and especially the lower lip…all her limbs are well set and unmaimed, and nought is amiss so far as a man may see. Moreover, she is brown of skin all over, and much like her father, and in all things she is pleasant enough, as it seems to us."
Four years later, Prince Edward went to visit his bride-to-be and her family, and fell in love with her. She was betrothed to him and, in 1327, when she was only 14, she arrived in England. The next year, when she was 15, they married and were crowned King and Queen, in 1330, when she was heavily pregnant with her first child and only 17.
This first child was called Edward, like his father, but is better known as the Black Prince. Many say that he was called this because of the colour of his armour, but there are records that show that he was called 'black' when he was very small. The French called him 'Le Noir'.
Philippa was a remarkable woman. She was very wise and was known and loved by the English for her kindliness and restraint. She would travel with her husband on his campaigns and take her children as well. When the King was abroad she ruled in his absence. Queen's College in Oxford University was founded under her direction by her chaplain, Robert de Eglesfield in 1341 when she was 28. She brought many artists and scholars from Hainault who contributed to English culture.
When she died, Edward never really recovered, and she was much mourned by him and the country. King Edward had a beautiful sculpture made for her tomb which you can see today at Westminster Abbey.
http://www.fyicomminc.com/gaianews/speech38.h...

I heard this story before, but i realy never studied it in depth. I also heard Dr. Ivan Van Sertima touch on this, and other supposed European queens.

[Ric Ricland]

mr Giblets wrote:

<quoted text>you are really stupid if you actually believe any of this! are you trying to claim that all white people are black? why? get a real education, for god's sake.

My claim is you know nothing about the evidence and that makes you an idiot for coming in here acting like you do.

For, example, Dr. Baron Stockmar was Queen Charlotte's persona physician. He kept a diary. In his diary there's a description of the Queen. Are you familiar with it?

I didn't think so.

Allan Ramsey was the royal painter to George III's court. Have you seen the paintings he did of Queen Charlotte?

Doubtful...

At the time of upon her arrival in London in 1761, several tabloid writers gave revealing descriptions of Queen Charlotte.

Have you read them?

If not, as I say above, you're an idiot for barging in here and calling people names.

ricland

[theenglishman]

justmeagain wrote:

Queen Philippa: England's First Black Queen
England's First Black Queen, Mother of the Black Prince
Philippa was the daughter of William of Hainault, a lord in part of what is now Belgium. When she was nine the King of England, Edward II, decided that he would marry his son, the future Edward III, to her, and sent one of his bishops, a Bishop Stapeldon, to look at her. He described her thus:
"The lady whom we saw has not uncomely hair, betwixt blue-black and brown. Her head is cleaned shaped; her forehead high and broad, and standing somewhat forward. Her face narrows between the eyes, and the lower part of her face is still more narrow and slender than the forehead. Her eyes are blackish brown and deep. Her nose is fairly smooth and even, save that is somewhat broad at the tip and flattened, yet it is no snub nose. Her nostrils are also broad, her mouth fairly wide. Her lips somewhat full and especially the lower lip…all her limbs are well set and unmaimed, and nought is amiss so far as a man may see. Moreover, she is brown of skin all over, and much like her father, and in all things she is pleasant enough, as it seems to us."
Four years later, Prince Edward went to visit his bride-to-be and her family, and fell in love with her. She was betrothed to him and, in 1327, when she was only 14, she arrived in England. The next year, when she was 15, they married and were crowned King and Queen, in 1330, when she was heavily pregnant with her first child and only 17.
This first child was called Edward, like his father, but is better known as the Black Prince. Many say that he was called this because of the colour of his armour, but there are records that show that he was called 'black' when he was very small. The French called him 'Le Noir'.
Philippa was a remarkable woman. She was very wise and was known and loved by the English for her kindliness and restraint. She would travel with her husband on his campaigns and take her children as well. When the King was abroad she ruled in his absence. Queen's College in Oxford University was founded under her direction by her chaplain, Robert de Eglesfield in 1341 when she was 28. She brought many artists and scholars from Hainault who contributed to English culture.
When she died, Edward never really recovered, and she was much mourned by him and the country. King Edward had a beautiful sculpture made for her tomb which you can see today at Westminster Abbey.
http://www.fyicomminc.com/gaianews/speech38.h...

This is a great thread!

Your right England had two black queens, first was Queen Phillipa wife of King Edward II and mother of the Black Prince, one of Englands greatest military heroes.
She was a much loved and resected Queen, when she died the nation mourned.

The second black Queen was Queen Charlott Sophia who was the wife of King Goerge III, they had fifteen children together, thirteen of which survied to be adults.
As with Queen Phillipa upon hearing of her death the nation whent into mourning.

I must admit I have only heard of these two amazing women recently, I certainly was not taught about them in school.

Which to me is a crime, these two Queens were amongst the finest Queens in English history.
Every child should be taught about these amazing women and the things they did for are country.

Thank you justmeagain for an amazing thread.

[Egmond Codfried]

Ric Ricland wrote:

<quoted text>
My claim is you know nothing about the evidence and that makes you an idiot for coming in here acting like you do.
For, example, Dr. Baron Stockmar was Queen Charlotte's persona physician. He kept a diary. In his diary there's a description of the Queen. Are you familiar with it?
I didn't think so.
Allan Ramsey was the royal painter to George III's court. Have you seen the paintings he did of Queen Charlotte?
Doubtful...
At the time of upon her arrival in London in 1761, several tabloid writers gave revealing descriptions of Queen Charlotte.
Have you read them?
If not, as I say above, you're an idiot for barging in here and calling people names.
ricland

Dear Ricland,
Please do not waste your time with these destructive forces against the truth and talk to me instead. Some people will never get it and you cannot win them all.
Just spread the word and share your findings with those who can appreciate this stuff.
Queen Charlotte Sophie’s physician wrote that she had a ‘true mulatto face.’
Try to find a portrait of her father and marvel at his tick lips. But remember, these are not photographs but paintings. They are artistic works and are thus loaded with symbolism, to a point that even black or brown skin was shown as white. And we do not get to see all available portraits as some are kept hidden or were destroyed. I think that they wanted to look like their white subjects, so they had themselves made white looking by painters. This was the 18th century when aristocratic rule was under ideological fire. I suspect that this is the reason why black nobility had to paint their faces white and wear blond wigs, as they could no longer claim nobility based on their black skin. A famous poet wrote that Charlotte Sophie showed signs of her Vandal forefathers in her face. The Vandals or Wendell’s, are considered the once ruling ducal elite in Mecklenburg. Another commentator wrote that the British court was shocked when they saw Charlotte Sophie.“Her nose was too wide and her mouth showed the same fault.”(If I’m not mistaken). But this man himself looks of colour as does George III and his brother. So there is some other meaning to this comment and should not be taken at face value. Remember that these persons were all blood relatives of some sort, and the British House of Hannover was extremely German. Have you seen what I have posted on Reversed Apartheid? I have found so many black and coloured European Royalty, nobles and intellectuals that I have declared the period 1500-1789 as when Europe was dominated by a despotic black elite. Just like South Africa was dominated by an Africanised white elite. All the fake paintings, which were repainted with beige, the present hatred against blacks and against afrocentrism should be understood as the fear that it might happen again. So every upstart among the Blacks is crushed and every belief that there were Black kings in Europe is squashed.
Egmond Codfried
[e-mail]
The Hague

[La Bella AfriQue]

the hard truth wrote:

yep...just like Egypt, Jesus, and Santa Clause were really black too! lol

SORRY to break it you but Jesus and Santa don't exist...cry now but you will be thanking me later

[Egmond Codfried]

www.le.ac.uk/li/images/charles2.jpg

Charles II Stuart, king of England, Scotland, Ireland, France etc, also known as ´The Black Boy.´17th century'

To me this engraving shows a Black Man. There are many portraits which show him as white, but also many show him as pitch black. Some are even afrocentric as he resembles a classic African. As does his greatgrandmother Maria of Scots, his grandfather James I, his father Charles I and mother Henriette Maria, who was a daughter of Maria de Medici, queen of France and sister to Louis XIII, the father of Louis XIV, The Sun King of France.

Egmond Codfried

ps is it possible to import pictures on this site.

[Blackinjun]

thank you...for this information.

[Afreakinqueen]

Number1Queen wrote:

Nice story but her picture dont look black. And how come i never heard of her before?

Well, concidering the camera wasn't invented until 1841, it's just a drawing, and you can't throw out the facts because she doesn't "look Black" in the picture.

[Ric Ricland]

Egmond Codfried wrote:

<quoted text>
Dear Ricland,
[QUOTE]Please do not waste your time with these destructive forces against the truth and talk to me instead. Some people will never get it and you cannot win them all...
-- Egmond Codfried

I found the painting of Charlotte with her children astonishing because although I've tried to find other Ramsey paintings of her, I've never seen that one.

I believe that one along with the painting he did of her upon her arrival in London are remarkable in what they show, most especially her hair and lips.

As to the painting of her father, I wonder if we're talking about the same one. I saw one a few years ago and was disappointed because it seemed to be of an ordinary white man. Same thing with her mother's painting.

Anyway, my problem is this: based on the Ramsey paintings, Charlotte appears to be a "true mulatto," but there it ends. Her father's and mother's pure German lineage are well-documented and there doesn't appear to be any story or rumor of how one of her parents (or grandparents) could have been of African heritage.

The story goes nowhere. It dead ends with Charlotte.

By the way, are there other Ramsey paintings in the Hague, and if so can you post copies?

ricland

[Egmond Codfried]

Dear Ric,

Thank you for your response. I know of three or four Ramsay afrocentric portraits of Charlotte Sophie. Have not seen any mention of these in Holland, but there are many, many other royal blacks to research.

http://images.google.nl/imgres...
[ A relative: Ludwig of Mecklenburg-Schwerin 1725-1778, child of Christian Ludwig of Mecklenburg-¬Schwerin. Married 1755 to Charlotte Sophie of Saxe-Coburg-¬Saalfeld. Also look for a portrait of his wife Charlotte Sophie, a namesake, Charlotte Sophie, Princess von Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (1731-1810)(spouse of Ludwig, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin)]

What do you mean with dead-end? Please pay attention to what I say because I have been at it, day and night, for the last three years. Charlotte Sophie is one of the millions of black and coloured Europeans who had more or less black features and more or less black skin. They were ‘an intermarrying, fixed mulatto race and some looked more African, or Asian or white.’ Being of pure german lineage does not mean a thing, because they could still be black. today this is denied and the proof kept hidden. For clarity’s sake one should concentrate on the more African type to proof that there were black kings and queens and emperors in Europe.

Do not be fooled by the paintings we are shown, as I have found out that even pitch black persons as General Monck and Charles II Stuart were also shown as white. Some portraits of Charlotte Sophie show a white matron, so you cannot see what the fuss is all about. Those are ‘fake’ portraits, she is given ‘classical’ looks, she is made ‘beautiful’ in the jargon of the time, she is ‘whitened.’
Now dear Charlotte could not look like this if her mother or her father did not have some black DNA. She was not a foundling left by the gypsies or any of that nonsense. The whole family was more or less black and this blackness was their sign of nobilty. If papa and mama Mecklenburg Strelitz did not look black, then you stumbled on ‘whitened’ fake portraits. The only one I saw shows papa having great Ubangi African lips, and I even doubt they had white skin.

[e-mail]

[Egmond Codfried]

Dear Ric,

Thank you for your response. I know of three or four Ramsay afrocentric portraits of Charlotte Sophie. Have not seen any mention of these in Holland, but there are many, many other royal blacks to research.

http://images.google.nl/imgres...

[ A relative: Ludwig of Mecklenburg-Schwerin 1725-1778, child of Christian Ludwig of Mecklenburg-¬Schwerin. Married 1755 to Charlotte Sophie of Saxe-Coburg-¬Saalfeld. Also look for a portrait of his wife Charlotte Sophie, a namesake, Charlotte Sophie, Princess von Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld (1731-1810)(spouse of Ludwig, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin)]

What do you mean with dead-end? Please pay attention to what I say because I have been at it, day and night, for the last three years. Charlotte Sophie is one of the millions of black and coloured Europeans who had more or less black features and more or less black skin. They were ‘an intermarrying, fixed mulatto race and some looked more African, or Asian or white.’ For clarity’s sake one should concentrate on the more African type to proof that there were black kings and queens and emperors in Europe.

Do not be fooled by the paintings we are shown, as I have found out that even pitch black persons as General Monck and Charles II Stuart were also shown as white. Some portraits of Charlotte Sophie show a white matron, so you cannot see what the fuss is all about. Those are ‘fake’ portraits, she is given ‘classical’ looks, she is made ‘beautiful’ in the jargon of the time, she is ‘whitened.’

Now dear Charlotte could not look like this if her mother or her father did not have some black DNA. She was not a foundling left by the gypsies or any of that nonsense. If papa and mama Mecklenburg Strelitz did not look black, then you stumbled on ‘whitened’ fake portraits. The one I saw shows papa having great Ubangi African lips, and I even doubt they had white skin.

[e-mail]