How was slavery in pre-colonial Africa?

Level 6

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#68 Mar 29, 2013
I love Islam 'cause Islam is love.

“Maat's my principle”

Level 9

Since: Jan 12

bamako,mali

#69 Mar 29, 2013
Black Deal wrote:
<quoted text>
You read Arabic?
Yup !

“Maat's my principle”

Level 9

Since: Jan 12

bamako,mali

#70 Mar 29, 2013
Malcontent X wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, so now Black men can be accused as behaving the same way as white people. So where's the complaint??
<quoted text>
OK, so you speak from ignorance about a religion you might have sworn to. Dare me to quote what I need and I most certainly will and we will walk through it line by line. I just don't want to waste forum space unless I have to when you could look up IBN Kathir's historically based account of Quran 9:5 and 9:29 for yourself. You've been had by tricky Muslims playing upon what they know is a black man's hatred for white people and their idea that Christianity is a white religion.
<quoted text>
You're right. I'M saying that you haven't read the whole Quran nor any of the hadiths and tafsir and I have. So ask yourself why I know more about Islam than you do and I'm not a Muslim and you ARE. Ask yourself why your fellow Muslim bros won't tell you these dirty and very inconvenient little secrets.
Nope black men can't be accused of it they were just returning the favor to Arabs whom dared taking us into forced slavery period !
You know nothing about the Qur'an trust me Boy ,leave the hadiths alone let's talk About the Qur'an (ALLAH4S WORD),What exactly do you know ?
Are youmuslim to begin with ? if not what's you interest of reading the book ?? Please don't tell me you took interest in reading it after the Sept 11 01 terrorist attacks ,Ok Boy ?
Now showtime ,let's talk .
Malcontent X

Lowell, MA

#71 Mar 29, 2013
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope black men can't be accused of it they were just returning the favor to Arabs whom dared taking us into forced slavery period !
dcool, did you even read what I said? I didn't say anything about Africans having Arab slaves, I said Muhammad had African slaves, so WTF??
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
You know nothing about the Qur'an trust me Boy
how do you know that?
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
,leave the hadiths alone let's talk About the Qur'an (ALLAH4S WORD),What exactly do you know ?
You just said I know notin and ten you ask me wat i know. This isn't starting out as a very intelligent conversation. First you didn't even read what I said properly, and now this contradiction. Ive read the whole thing and also studied IBN Kathir tafsir for it. Have you?
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
Are youmuslim to begin with ?
if not what's you interest of reading the book ?? Please don't tell me you took interest in reading it after the Sept 11 01 terrorist attacks ,Ok Boy ?
Now showtime ,let's talk .
Show time.((chuckle chuckle)). Yes another unjustifiably cocky and angry black Muslim that responds emotionally whenever Islam is challenged. Very typical.

I read the Quran about 5 years ago over the course of about 6 months and simultaneously consulted IBN Kathir to make sure I was understanding it correctly. i read it because te issue of od is very important to me. I'm not really a christian anymore, but I'm still a huge fan of Jesus' philosophical depth and keen understanding of true human nature. So I read the Quran to give it an objective, open minded chance. Decisions about od are te most important decisions one can make.

Now while I understand that the recital of the Quran can be thought of as beautiful to some, even though I think it sounds like someone with a toothache, without the extra window dressing the actual words in the book and it's message was very boring, repetitive, and lacked any depth of thought at all. A fifth grader can write common sense commands. But, that doesn't mean one should reject it for that. I think the real reason I rejected it is because of its claim that it is the letter for letter dictation of God. The Bible doesn't specifically claim that and most of the bible is a narrator, not God, retelling stories of interactions between God and men, and one is supposed to believe that the narrator is inspired by God. But, if something looks wrong, I could possibly explain that as the narrator's limitations in interpreting the vision, but certainly it could never be god's mistake. But that is not an option with the Quran and its an all or nothing proposition because it IS supposed to be the letter for letter dictation of God. So one error, just one, and the entire thing becomes an unacceptable lie. And I didn't ave to actually try to look for errors, they popped right out of the page and slapped me across the face, and i cant see how any reasonable objective person could miss these unless they were hypnotized or something.

The author obviously had the same misconceptions of the cosmos that everyone else had in the 7th century. For example, 5 or 6 different times it talks about how the sky will crack open as if it were some solid dome, and that's what everybody thought the sky was back then, rather than something of infinite depth that could never crack open. Honestly, how did you float over those verses without seeing the problem? That's merely one example, there are many other errors as well. I've never read a religious book were I could be so confident that it is indeed a lie. i was really surprised and i thought how could anybody be so stupid or brainwashed to not see these obvious errors right in front of their face?
Malcontent X

Lowell, MA

#72 Mar 29, 2013
yeah "showtime",((chuckle chuckle)). You couldn't even correctly read what I wrote about slaves, so how am I supposed to think you read the Quran the right way? Whenever someone acts cocky and says "boy", they're usually pretty stupid.

“Maat's my principle”

Level 9

Since: Jan 12

bamako,mali

#73 Mar 29, 2013
Malcontent X wrote:
<quoted text>
dcool, did you even read what I said? I didn't say anything about Africans having Arab slaves, I said Muhammad had African slaves, so WTF??
<quoted text>
how do you know that?
<quoted text>
You just said I know notin and ten you ask me wat i know. This isn't starting out as a very intelligent conversation. First you didn't even read what I said properly, and now this contradiction. Ive read the whole thing and also studied IBN Kathir tafsir for it. Have you?
<quoted text>

Show time.((chuckle chuckle)). Yes another unjustifiably cocky and angry black Muslim that responds emotionally whenever Islam is challenged. Very typical.
I read the Quran about 5 years ago over the course of about 6 months and simultaneously consulted IBN Kathir to make sure I was understanding it correctly. i read it because te issue of od is very important to me. I'm not really a christian anymore, but I'm still a huge fan of Jesus' philosophical depth and keen understanding of true human nature. So I read the Quran to give it an objective, open minded chance. Decisions about od are te most important decisions one can make.
Now while I understand that the recital of the Quran can be thought of as beautiful to some, even though I think it sounds like someone with a toothache, without the extra window dressing the actual words in the book and it's message was very boring, repetitive, and lacked any depth of thought at all. A fifth grader can write common sense commands. But, that doesn't mean one should reject it for that. I think the real reason I rejected it is because of its claim that it is the letter for letter dictation of God. The Bible doesn't specifically claim that and most of the bible is a narrator, not God, retelling stories of interactions between God and men, and one is supposed to believe that the narrator is inspired by God. But, if something looks wrong, I could possibly explain that as the narrator's limitations in interpreting the vision, but certainly it could never be god's mistake. But that is not an option with the Quran and its an all or nothing proposition because it IS supposed to be the letter for letter dictation of God. So one error, just one, and the entire thing becomes an unacceptable lie. And I didn't ave to actually try to look for errors, they popped right out of the page and slapped me across the face, and i cant see how any reasonable objective person could miss these unless they were hypnotized or something.
The author obviously had the same misconceptions of the cosmos that everyone else had in the 7th century. For example, 5 or 6 different times it talks about how the sky will crack open as if it were some solid dome, and that's what everybody thought the sky was back then, rather than something of infinite depth that could never crack open. Honestly, how did you float over those verses without seeing the problem? That's merely one example, there are many other errors as well. I've never read a religious book were I could be so confident that it is indeed a lie. i was really surprised and i thought how could anybody be so stupid or brainwashed to not see these obvious errors right in front of their face?
Wasn't Prophet Mohamed of arab descent???
"Let's read it line by line" that's how I know !
What interest do YOU have in the Qur'an and since when ??
The time to prove you're an intelligent person Has yet to come ,be patient hommey!
And fck IBN khatir tasfir Ok ? It's ALLAH's own word I'm interested in ,scholar references are not allowed in this conversation YET.
Just answer the damn question before we go any further !
I'm starting to have fun on here BOY an angry muslim when the Qur'an is challenged ???
You don't get it do you ?? NO ONE Has Been able to challenge this book and it's been centuries don't make me laugh boy .
Use all the Ink equivalent to 2 oceans you stil can't challenge it,I do dare you to .LMBAO !

“Maat's my principle”

Level 9

Since: Jan 12

bamako,mali

#74 Mar 29, 2013
Malcontent X wrote:
yeah "showtime",((chuckle chuckle)). You couldn't even correctly read what I wrote about slaves, so how am I supposed to think you read the Quran the right way? Whenever someone acts cocky and says "boy", they're usually pretty stupid.
Boy keep talking we'll all know who's stupid be patient BOY!
I've replied to your precedent post but I can't find it ,anyway I just said fck IBN khatir tasfir is ALLAH's own words I'am interested in so talk to me Boy ,what were you saying BOY ? U Know the Qur'an ? since when ? of course after 09 11 01 Am I correct lil' BOY ?
baadindyan

Thompson, Canada

#75 Mar 29, 2013
Malcontent X wrote:
Look, why don't we be honest with ourselves. Africans didn't have many slaves nor did they conquer countries because they never invented much and therefore never had the power to do so. If they did, they would have had more slaves and would have invaded other lands. It's not like Africans didn't fight, they fought each other all of the time and they continue to do it today. The difference is that they're fighting never got them anywhere because they never invented advanced weapons. Black people have a tendency to use their bodies more than their minds. That's why black people can dance better and are more into sex. It didn't take long for white people to figure out that the mind is a far more powerful weapon than any warrior bravery and muscle or physical abilities. If you depend more on your body than your mind, this is the eventual outcome. Look at even today in American society. Black people excel at sports and dance and fortunately for them, white people buy into it, so black people are now making money. But where are the engineers, the physicists, the software developers....? You see some black lawyers now, which is good, but you can get away with being flashy like Johnny Cochran and depending on the race card. But black people never want to do the really hard thinking and problem solving, and that's why they invent so few technology breakthroughs. Let's face it, for some odd reason, black people just cant do math very well. You can't use the excuse for poor math SAT scores of saying they are culturally biased. Mat cant be culturally biased. So why do black people consistently do so poor at math? It's because math is hard for everybody, even whites and it takes real concentration, and black people don't like to do the hard stuff and instead chose to leave that to white people. If a problem is really hard, they just give up, shrug and start dancing. So where's the surprise about the position of black people?
Black people laugh at how stiff white people are and wonder why they are that way, and then they go use a piece of white technology without even giving it a second thought as to what an accomplishment it really is.
Black civilizations in general just suck at holding on to political power. Political/military power swings this way and that way all the time, but to establish a stranglehold you have to establish a caste system and black civilizations never did that or succeeded in doing so. Take for example the Arabs. The original Arab may not be a Bantu-African type but the Arab civilization originated in southwestern Arab peninsula, literally swimming distance from Ethiopia/Somalia. These people used to look and still today look like very dark-skinned aboriginal south-Indians with nappy hair . If these are the original warriors of Islam, how come when these "black men" armies went around subjugating whiter/Caucasian rest of Middle East/North Africa/Central Asia etc, they could not establish a society where the pure Arab look was the highest caste? The reverse was almost guaranteed to happen. Today if someone asks why in India dark skin is looked down upon, the answer is that historically Indians who were originally an Australoid-Aboriginal people were wave-upon-wave subjugated by bands of nomadic Caucasian barbarians from Central-Asia. So the more Caucasian you look in features and complexion, the closer you are to the dominant invaders. Why the reverse did not result in Arab world? Why not in Islamic Spain do we not hear/read about any anti-white racism...ie that ruling class was associated with brown or black skin and subservients were white?
Heck this goes even before Islam. Ethiopians from mainland sub-Saharan Africa used to hold territory in Arabia...but still in entire Islamic history around time of Muhammad, you never hear of the position of any Ethiopians in Arabia as governors or ruling elites. They are always invariably slaves.
Malcontent X

Lowell, MA

#76 Mar 29, 2013
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
Wasn't Prophet Mohamed of arab descent???
Yes, let me know when the questions get hard. He was a member of Quereshi tribe. Why would you even ask a question such as this if you are so knowledgeable as you claim?
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
"Let's read it line by line" that's how I know !
What interest do YOU have in the Qur'an and since when ??
I already told you that. Don't you read anything that people type? Besides, what does it matter for answering the errors I've seen? The errors are the errors. Even if I had an agenda, that's irrelevant to discussion about the errors. Can you understand that? Your answer should not vary based on whether someone has an agenda or not. Your answer should be your answer your answer. Its that simple. Lets not get into stupid theatrics or diversions, OK?
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
The time to prove you're an intelligent person Has yet to come ,be patient hommey!
Could you please quit the stupid show and just get to the point? Thank you. I can already tell where this is going to lead. After you exhaust all efforts and find out you can''t provide a reasonable, workable, or convincing answer to the question, you will create a diversion and attack the question's character itself. but that's irrelevant. Can't you understand that? Why do so many Muslims seem to try to pull stupid stunts like this that will never work?
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
And fck IBN khatir tasfir Ok ?
OK, so you know more than the most respected scholar and historian of Islam for all time? You never even read IBN Kathir, right?
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
It's ALLAH's own word I'm interested in ,scholar references are not allowed in this conversation YET.
Who says you are supposed to control what gets addressed and when? This is just another stupid attempt at manipulation. And you don't even have the faintest clue about how stupid and shifty you sound right now.
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
Just answer the damn question before we go any further !
I did in my last post you moron, now go back and read it again and don't come back until you have read it properly.
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm starting to have fun on here BOY an angry muslim when the Qur'an is challenged ???
You're not having any fun at all so quit thinking you can fool anybody and that people are as stupid and gullible as you. Obviously, someone who gets all cocky and defensive and then insults the other person right from the beginning by calling them boy is not actually having fun. I'll admit honestly that I am not having fun because so far, all you have been is a mild annoyance that still hasn't even scratched the surface of the point.
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't get it do you ?? NO ONE Has Been able to challenge this book and it's been centuries don't make me laugh boy .
Sure they have been able to challenge it, and Muslims try to kill them when they do. If I were in Iran or Saudi Arabia, they would either put me in jail or kill me. That's how Islam survives. Muslim silence anybody who can challenge the Quran. But anyway, i was just giving you my objective impression of the Quran. I see errors all over it. It's that simple.
dcool wrote:
<quoted text>
Use all the Ink equivalent to 2 oceans you stil can't challenge it,I do dare you to .LMBAO !
I just did in my previous post, and you couldn't answer the problems I pointed out. What kind of a silly game is this? May I ask how old the person that I'm having this discussion with is?
Malcontent X

Lowell, MA

#77 Mar 29, 2013
dcool, here's what's going on. You have been brainwashed to think it's impossible for anybody to honestly think the Qursn has any errors, and therefore if someone claims it does, then they must be jealous of Muslims and have an agenda. That's the little lie they tell you. But its easy for any reasonable, thinking, common sense person to see these clear errors unless they have their head in the sand and their butts facing the sky. You know, that thing that is supposed to crack open? LOL!!! In fact, I wonder how its possible for people to NOT see these errors.

Has anybody ever taught you any science? It's easy for any reasonably educated person to clearly see these problems. They jump right off the page at you. This is why Islamic countries don't like science education very much because they are afraid that knowledge of this type will cause people to see the errors in the Quran. They want to keep you in the dark. They don't care about the truth, they just care about how many Muslims there are and keeping their numbers up.
Malcontent X

Lowell, MA

#78 Mar 29, 2013
You know, I see these negative ratings my post are getting and yet not one single person can tell me why I''m wrong. Not even one. Come on people, don't just mark my posts negatively, tell me your exact complaint. Is the truth forbidden? Is that the problem you are having with me?
Kareem O Wheat

Lowell, MA

#79 Mar 29, 2013
OK, I'm going to use this name for this particular discussion instead of Malcontent X due to the subject nature.
Kareem O Wheat

Lowell, MA

#80 Mar 29, 2013
So here's the verses I'm talking about. The first one was the most obvious and it raised a huge flag for me immediately and I will explain exactly why in a very straightforward, clear, honest and sincere fashion. Please take off the subjectivity cap for a moment and try to consider this in an objective, rational and open minded manner.

69:16
And the sky will be rent asunder, for it will that Day be flimsy,

The first thing I thought was since the stars are said to be in the sky in the Quran in many other verse, then this is talking about what is actually the universe. How could the universe crack open and how could we possibly witness the universe, with billions of light years of stars, crack open? How could the sky ever be flimsy? Only physical objects can become flimsy. So the first thing I thought is that I must be misunderstanding it, so I consulted IBN Kathir, and it turns out, I was understanding this verse correctly according to him and it meant exactly what it said. After all, the Quran is not supposed to be confusing, it's supposed to make things clear for us.

He even goes into some really wild, impossible stuff. But remember, he lived in the 13th century, so none of this seemed impossible to him at all. He was just honestly interpreting what the Quran was actually saying, and it is pretty clear. So I thought maybe this is impossible for it to actually mean this and I could find some way to see that it couldn't mean this. But, I moved on and kept reading more of the Quran after I consulted Kathir and temporarily shelved the question. Then, the next day, I was pondering this verse.There wasn't a cloud in the sky and I looked up at the sky and tried to imagine that I had no science knowledge at all so that I can look at it from the perpective of people in the 7th century. When I did this, the sky clearly looked and seemed like a giant blue dome. So I thought, is this what the Quran was referring to? Is this why it says things about it cracking open?

So I thought that if I could find out that people didn't think the sky was a blue dome back in the 7th century, then that would make it impossible for the Quran to be talking about anything like a dome, because people would see that as wrong. So I researched it, and found out that this is EXACTLY what people DID think the sky was back then. So people would see no problem at all with the statement of the sky being able to crack open if they thought it was a dome. That's when I was like "oh my God, the Quran really DOES mean this and Kathir is completely right".

So then, I had already realized that the Quran repeats itself endlessly by the time I got to this verse, so I tried to look for other mentions of this in later verses to see if it can help explain things. So I did find more mentions of this same thing.

55:37 (Y. Ali) When the sky is rent asunder, and it becomes red like ointment:
73:18 (Y. Ali) Whereon the sky will be cleft asunder? His Promise needs must be accomplished.
77:9 (Y. Ali) When the heaven is cleft asunder;
82:1 (Y. Ali) When the Sky is cleft asunder;
84:1 (Y. Ali) When the sky is rent asunder,

continued next post

Kareem O Wheat

Lowell, MA

#81 Mar 29, 2013
And then, it pretty much became conclusive for me. The author of the Quran had the same exact mistaken notions of the sky that everybody had back in the 7th century. I was shocked to see such a clear, blatant error. So how could God misunderstand the cosmos he created in exactly the same way 7th century people did? He couldn't. That's impossible. So the only possible conclusion left was that God did not write these verses, a 7th century man did. And I find it highly coincidental that this error just so happens to match the erroneous misconception of the sky that 7th century people had 100% perfectly, to a tee.

So then, this became completely conclusive for me, and the only way someone could possibly ignore this is because it's too painful for them. But I was only considering the Quran to see if it does come from God, so this wasn't painful for me, it was just objective common sense. If the truth is painful to people, they will do everything they can think of to invent stories for themselves or basically even lie to themselves. That's just human nature. It happens all of the time with many things in life. It's everyone's right to lie to themselves if they choose to, but personally, I can never do this and I don't know how people can.
romp_cherry

Scarborough, Canada

#82 Mar 29, 2013
The black tribal leaders sold their own people as slaves for the islands .. that's how it all started the babylon system started there as did civilization regardless of skin colour, and it remains the same today -- tis all about the money honey.
Al Boner

Hattiesburg, MS

#83 Mar 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="Jahx - clean like Ajax" I love Islam because Islam is love.[/QUOTE]

Isl Bizl toke dat skizzle

I love it,'cause if a b*tch don't spread dem a&& cheeks quick enough, you can wack her head off an git a new b*tch dat will.

Slavery was cool as sh*t in pre-colonial, dat is, as long as you was de Kingfish
Kareem O Wheat

Lowell, MA

#84 Mar 29, 2013
Al Boner wrote:
<quoted text>
Slavery was cool as sh*t in pre-colonial, dat is, as long as you was de Kingfish
an den da' english became da kingfish

Level 6

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#85 Mar 30, 2013
baadindyan wrote:
<quoted text>
Ethiopians from mainland sub-Saharan Africa used to hold territory in Arabia...but still in entire Islamic history around time of Muhammad, you never hear of the position of any Ethiopians in Arabia as governors or ruling elites. They are always invariably slaves.
Search for 'Abraha'.

“Maat's my principle”

Level 9

Since: Jan 12

bamako,mali

#86 Mar 30, 2013
Kareem O Wheat wrote:
So here's the verses I'm talking about. The first one was the most obvious and it raised a huge flag for me immediately and I will explain exactly why in a very straightforward, clear, honest and sincere fashion. Please take off the subjectivity cap for a moment and try to consider this in an objective, rational and open minded manner.
69:16
And the sky will be rent asunder, for it will that Day be flimsy,
The first thing I thought was since the stars are said to be in the sky in the Quran in many other verse, then this is talking about what is actually the universe. How could the universe crack open and how could we possibly witness the universe, with billions of light years of stars, crack open? How could the sky ever be flimsy? Only physical objects can become flimsy. So the first thing I thought is that I must be misunderstanding it, so I consulted IBN Kathir, and it turns out, I was understanding this verse correctly according to him and it meant exactly what it said. After all, the Quran is not supposed to be confusing, it's supposed to make things clear for us.
He even goes into some really wild, impossible stuff. But remember, he lived in the 13th century, so none of this seemed impossible to him at all. He was just honestly interpreting what the Quran was actually saying, and it is pretty clear. So I thought maybe this is impossible for it to actually mean this and I could find some way to see that it couldn't mean this. But, I moved on and kept reading more of the Quran after I consulted Kathir and temporarily shelved the question. Then, the next day, I was pondering this verse.There wasn't a cloud in the sky and I looked up at the sky and tried to imagine that I had no science knowledge at all so that I can look at it from the perpective of people in the 7th century. When I did this, the sky clearly looked and seemed like a giant blue dome. So I thought, is this what the Quran was referring to? Is this why it says things about it cracking open?
So I thought that if I could find out that people didn't think the sky was a blue dome back in the 7th century, then that would make it impossible for the Quran to be talking about anything like a dome, because people would see that as wrong. So I researched it, and found out that this is EXACTLY what people DID think the sky was back then. So people would see no problem at all with the statement of the sky being able to crack open if they thought it was a dome. That's when I was like "oh my God, the Quran really DOES mean this and Kathir is completely right".
So then, I had already realized that the Quran repeats itself endlessly by the time I got to this verse, so I tried to look for other mentions of this in later verses to see if it can help explain things. So I did find more mentions of this same thing.
55:37 (Y. Ali) When the sky is rent asunder, and it becomes red like ointment:
73:18 (Y. Ali) Whereon the sky will be cleft asunder? His Promise needs must be accomplished.
77:9 (Y. Ali) When the heaven is cleft asunder;
82:1 (Y. Ali) When the Sky is cleft asunder;
84:1 (Y. Ali) When the sky is rent asunder,
continued next post
"Only Physical objects can become flimsy"??????
So to you the sky is not physical ???? Wow Great start Boy .
Let me ask you this BOY since everybody witnessed the Meteor shower last month ,When the big one come on to earth ,What will Physically happen in your own view ?
The end of the world ALLAh's created is being described through these verses ,but you Know in advance what it will be like and deny god version ??
Then you've said I insulted you ,ok now I Will you're stupid boy trying to deny the sky is physical just to have it your way ,So to you ,is the sky some kind of mirage that doesn't really exist ?
Give me the chemical composition of the sky BOy ,you dumbfck.
Boy YOU are ridiculous .
Anyway go on with it

“Maat's my principle”

Level 9

Since: Jan 12

bamako,mali

#87 Mar 30, 2013
This is how dumb you are this thread is not about Islam ,but Africa I'll invite you to the "Islam an Empire of faith" thread,so you could be on topic.

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