Jesus: A Prophet of Islam - By Siraj ...
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#154 Oct 6, 2013
God wrote:
Jesus calling her christianity a false religion.She wants to suck the white mans dck so bad.Thats why shes pro IR.Its part of her christian slave upbringing.
Jesus warned his disciples in the Gospel of Judas, 2,000 years ago, that Chrstianity would become a “false prophet's religion”. And so it was as Jesus prophesized and as recorded in the “Gospel of Judas”, it was the Roman Emperor Constantine who forever changed Jesus' life and teachings, when he devised a false prophet's religion around a false image of Jesus' life in order to perpetuate the extravagant lifestyles of Rome's wealthy citizens.
Gospel of Judas:
-They [said,“We have seen] a great [house with a large] altar [in it, and] twelve men—they are the priests, we would say—and a name; and a crowd of people is waiting at that altar,[until] the priests […and receive] the offerings.[But] we kept waiting.”[Jesus said],“What are [the priests] like?” They [said,“Some …] two weeks; [some] sacrifice their own children, others their wives, in praise [and] humility with each other; some are involved in [slaughter]; some commit a multitude of sins and deeds of lawlessness. And the men who stand [before] the altar invoke your [name],[39] and in all the deeds of their deficiency, the sacrifices are brought to completion […].” After they said this, they were quiet, for they were troubled. Jesus said to them,“Why are you troubled? Truly I say to you, all the priests who stand before that altar invoke my name. Again I say to you, my name has been written on this […] of the generations of the stars through the human generations.[And they](preachers today) have planted trees without fruit, in my name, in a shameful manner.”
You can quote from Judas and the others all you like and it will never hold any credibility among Christians because We know historically..it/they were always regarded as heresies by the mainstream church pre and post the cannon (hence the purpose of a cannon)..and the New Testament it's self speaks of rejection of these "gospels"(So this idea that those "Christians" were all united in a single belief with one giant collection of "gospels" until Nicaea is laughable at best)...We would have to ignore all the Christian writers who condemned such books BEFORE Nicaea..and we would also need to ignore the purpose of Nicaea altogether..Your stance makes no sense.....

Being upset..it's going to change known/documented facts..you simply cannot address because it destroys YOUR position and what you keep parroting..You bring up plagiarism from myths when you think it will strengthen your side..yet "most" modern scholars (if I'm not mistaken)have even abandon this position...Why....because such mythical versions that share similarities to Christian events are ALL dated Post-Christianity and different versions of the myth who looks nothing like the Christian stories are pre-Christianity..if there is any borrowing going on it's the rewriting of myths to match a growing Christian faith/religion.. You really need to update your argument....seriously
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#155 Oct 6, 2013
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
You're playing a lying game here.
There was no Bible, then suddenly it exists... lol...

by purging the body of Christian writings, establishing what's left as “canon”... and then pretending somehow this canon already existed, by being “mainstream”.
What lying game and what do you mean suddenly it..exist?
Are you saying there was a Bible (Bible is a collection of books in one big book) before cannon? Then prove it..Show us..where there exist one huge book called the Bible that included these "other gospels" before nicaea removed/purged them
Ish Tov wrote:
And then further claim that the canon represents the true essence of Jesus' teachings! LOL!!!
And all this under the direction of the evil Constantine who was a practicing pagan up to the time of his death, and was clearly crafting Christianity to serve as the Imperial cult.
And you fell for his manipulations! You actually believe in it! LOL!!!
Why are you telling me about Constantine...What's next King James? All of which is mute points..just like another bringing up T.D. Jakes and Joel Joel Osteen and White Jesus...just "fluff"..The fact remains....all those writings pre-date both of them....
To make a strong case of "crafty"..you would need to produce evidence of this manipulation...like showing a Bible that included these "gospels" before the evil Constantine manipulation or else you're just one of many conspiracy theorists who think they are somehow any different than a believer..That's what's actually funny..
Nat Turner

Philippines

#156 Oct 6, 2013
So called "Christians" were directly responsible for the transatlantic slave trade under a 14 year old cracker Queen named Isabela from Spain in 1492!
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#157 Oct 6, 2013
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
You're playing a lying game here.
There was no Bible, then suddenly it exists... lol... by purging the body of Christian writings, establishing what's left as “canon”... and then pretending somehow this canon already existed, by being “mainstream”.
I cannot simplify this any more...
Bible:*Book of Books
*is a canonical collection of texts considered sacred in Christianity (Judaism as well)

^ This is what a Bible is.....

There were no Bible (see definition)before it was cannon...
However...There were writings, scrolls, documents, letters,etc..BEFORE their was a BIBLE (see definition)..and different sects had different writings, scrolls, documents, letters,etc.
The mainstream church already agreed upon which writings, scrolls, documents, letters,etc.. they found legitimated and which ones that regarded as heresies..hence why they wrote of rejecting them and why a cannon was established..

And since there were no Bible (see definition) before nicaea...one cannot claim certain books were purge from it at Nicaea... <SMH>

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#158 Oct 6, 2013
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text>I cannot simplify this any more...
Bible:*Book of Books
*is a canonical collection of texts considered sacred in Christianity (Judaism as well)
^ This is what a Bible is.....
There were no Bible (see definition)before it was cannon...
However...There were writings, scrolls, documents, letters,etc..BEFORE their was a BIBLE (see definition)..and different sects had different writings, scrolls, documents, letters,etc.
The mainstream church already agreed upon which writings, scrolls, documents, letters,etc.. they found legitimated and which ones that regarded as heresies..hence why they wrote of rejecting them and why a cannon was established..
And since there were no Bible (see definition) before nicaea...one cannot claim certain books were purge from it at Nicaea... <SMH>
You're playing a lying game with semantics.

Writings were purged from “the body of Christian literature”, which included what was then canonized, but also much which was excluded.

That is the point. You are not denying that it happened, but you think if you can put certain words on it and define them as you like, then you have an argument.

Much of the body of Christian literature was purged at Nicaea, ok? THEN it became “Bible” and “canon”.

And the rest was banned and its destruction attempted.
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#159 Oct 6, 2013
Helpful hint for the other side:
It sounds extremely unintelligent to keep claiming books were "removed/purged" "FROM" the Bible(see definition)that didn't exist BEFORE Nicaea....it would mean at Nicaea...the council went through the Bible and REMOVED those gospels.. This is not a historical fact..The whole purpose of Nicaea was to create a Bible
(see definition)....so for you to be more accurate..you need to focus on why those books were EXCLUDED from the cannon..

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#160 Oct 6, 2013
Nat Turner wrote:
So called "Christians" were directly responsible for the transatlantic slave trade under a 14 year old cracker Queen named Isabela from Spain in 1492!
If you're going to bring that up, then we must also note that the Moslems in Africa created the slave trade, markets and economy, as well as slave routes, by which the europeans were able to procure slaves in large quantities.

Moslems took more slaves out of Africa than Christians did, and more died in transit in the Moslem trade than in the Christian transatlantic trade.

The Euros and the Arabs plus their lackeys all committed grave crimes against humanity, in this case against Africans, all the while each proclaiming that they were the true followers of God... lol!!!

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#161 Oct 6, 2013
Lisa wrote:
Helpful hint for the other side:
It sounds extremely unintelligent to keep claiming books were "removed/purged" "FROM" the Bible(see definition)that didn't exist BEFORE Nicaea....it would mean at Nicaea...the council went through the Bible and REMOVED those gospels.. This is not a historical fact..The whole purpose of Nicaea was to create a Bible
(see definition)....so for you to be more accurate..you need to focus on why those books were EXCLUDED from the cannon..
Apparently you hadn't read my last post. Again, for clarity:

Books were purged from the BODY OF CHRISTIAN LITERATURE in creating the “Bible”. You are operating under a logical fallacy, a teleology, that once the bible is constituted, it enjoys then some inherent approval from God.

Putting God in as a cause, in science, that's teleology.

Now... why were the books purged? That the “mainstream” didn't accept them isn't an answer. WHY weren't they accepted? And this would relate to their CONTENT, not who wrote them when.

Half the time you spell "canon" like the old artillery piece, cannon. CANON
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#162 Oct 6, 2013
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
You're playing a lying game with semantics.
Writings were purged from “the body of Christian literature”, which included what was then canonized, but also much which was excluded.
That is the point. You are not denying that it happened, but you think if you can put certain words on it and define them as you like, then you have an argument.
Much of the body of Christian literature was purged at Nicaea, ok? THEN it became “Bible” and “canon”.
And the rest was banned and its destruction attempted.
It's not playing with words or did I make up the definition of Bible or any other word....if you're the one who is misusing a word..that's not my fault..How are we going to properly communicate if we don't use the words correctly? A Bible is a work of canonization..if one claims some writings are removed from them at some point in time..then they must prove they were once included before such purging..and this isn't the case..
An accurate argument is why were they excluded....and where did I deny those books were excluded at Nicaea? I could have sworn I said earlier on..they didn't meet the credibility factor...of what was believed to be the original teachings during the Apostolic Age.

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#163 Oct 6, 2013
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text>
What lying game and what do you mean suddenly it..exist?
Are you saying there was a Bible (Bible is a collection of books in one big book) before cannon? Then prove it..Show us..where there exist one huge book called the Bible that included these "other gospels" before nicaea removed/purged them
<quoted text>Why are you telling me about Constantine...What's next King James? All of which is mute points..just like another bringing up T.D. Jakes and Joel Joel Osteen and White Jesus...just "fluff"..The fact remains....all those writings pre-date both of them....
To make a strong case of "crafty"..you would need to produce evidence of this manipulation...like showing a Bible that included these "gospels" before the evil Constantine manipulation or else you're just one of many conspiracy theorists who think they are somehow any different than a believer..That's what's actually funny..
Constantine was behind the manipulation, usually via his bishops.

The canonized books weren't in any Bible pre-Nicaea either, so you make no point.

There was a body of Christian literature. The people you call “mainstream” were not reading the identical collection of books.

There was nothing about those canonized to distinguish them from the others until Nicaea. The Council created the distinction, with their imprimitur. Under orders from Constantine.

Get it?
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#164 Oct 6, 2013
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
You are operating under a logical fallacy, a teleology, that once the bible is constituted, it enjoys then some inherent approval from God.
No..that's your assumption..The oral traditions of Judaism (which Christianity is an "outgrowth")had approval from God...this would be no different..As those writings have already been accepted and circulated among mainstream Christians.. The purpose of the Bible only serve to exclude heresies..which was also in circulations among others sects..
Ish Tov wrote:
Putting God in as a cause, in science, that's teleology.
Now... why were the books purged? That the “mainstream” didn't accept them isn't an answer. WHY weren't they accepted? And this would relate to their CONTENT, not who wrote them when.
Half the time you spell "canon" like the old artillery piece, cannon. CANON
The argument has always been about the content of those books..They simply did not meet the criteria of what was taught and believed during the apostolic age.
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#165 Oct 6, 2013
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
Constantine was behind the manipulation, usually via his bishops.

The canonized books weren't in any Bible pre-Nicaea either, so you make no point.

There was a body of Christian literature. The people you call “mainstream” were not reading the identical collection of books.
There was nothing about those canonized to distinguish them from the others until Nicaea. The Council created the distinction, with their imprimitur. Under orders from Constantine.
Get it?
LOL seriously..
Of course I made a point..about no Bible existed period pre-Nicaea..thus the argument books being removed is an extreme error..I'm not the one who claimed the writings NOW in the Bible were canonized BEFORE Nicaea.
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#166 Oct 6, 2013
Note: And the usage of the words purge and remove gives a complete different meaning to exclude... The purging and especially removing of books makes it seems like some tampering and manipulation went out..but the truth is those books were never included..so the correct word is excluded...but that doesn't help the conspiracy theorists cause as much when promoting Christianity as flawed... Exclusion "at best" puts all written "Christian" literature on "equal footing" for examination for legitimacy....
Which is why words are very important in what one is attempting to promote as truth and legit..
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#167 Oct 6, 2013
* And the usage of the words purge and remove gives us a completely different meaning than the word exclude...

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#168 Oct 6, 2013
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text>No..that's your assumption..The oral traditions of Judaism (which Christianity is an "outgrowth")had approval from God...this would be no different..As those writings have already been accepted and circulated among mainstream Christians.. The purpose of the Bible only serve to exclude heresies..which was also in circulations among others sects..
<quoted text>The argument has always been about the content of those books..They simply did not meet the criteria of what was taught and believed during the apostolic age.
More teleology. You label them “mainstream”, and so whoever that was, their books become Bible? Lol... and of course this is all on approval from GOD (Constantine, lol!)

“Heresies”, defined by the “mainstream” sect, and excluding books read by other sects. Their content wasn't that of this mainstream non-heretical group... lol!

In other words, Constantine and his Bishops decided which books were to be included and in what form, in conformity to THEIR notion of what Christianity should be---a cult of Roman imperialism.

Ish Tov
Level 3

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#169 Oct 6, 2013
Lisa wrote:
Note: And the usage of the words purge and remove gives a complete different meaning to exclude... The purging and especially removing of books makes it seems like some tampering and manipulation went out..but the truth is those books were never included..so the correct word is excluded...but that doesn't help the conspiracy theorists cause as much when promoting Christianity as flawed... Exclusion "at best" puts all written "Christian" literature on "equal footing" for examination for legitimacy....
Which is why words are very important in what one is attempting to promote as truth and legit..
It is entirely appropriate to speak of the exclusion of books as a “purge”, given that pagans and heretics were being systematically purged, as in KILLED, by your mainstream “Christians”.

It was a purge and removal (from circulation, from legality...). The purged books were well removed, as copies were gathered up and destroyed, and for centuries their possession was a crime.

This is why we have division of Church and State in the USA. To avoid that sort of thing. Yet some of you still adhere to that Roman Imperialist cult...smh...
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#170 Oct 6, 2013
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
It is entirely appropriate to speak of the exclusion of books as a “purge”, given that pagans and heretics were being systematically purged, as in KILLED, by your mainstream “Christians”.

It was a purge and removal (from circulation, from legality...). The purged books were well removed, as copies were gathered up and destroyed, and for centuries their possession was a crime.
This is why we have division of Church and State in the USA. To avoid that sort of thing. Yet some of you still adhere to that Roman Imperialist cult...smh...
It's one thing to speak of exclusion of books as purge and removed from a Bible (as it was being claimed earlier) and it's another to NOW use it for the circulation in ancient society..the whole point is to keep things honest.
Societal purging has always been common..religious is only among one motivator..
As society by pure definition is a group of humans who share mutual and a agreed upon (usually by the majority or empowered) interest and created a common culture..
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#171 Oct 6, 2013
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
More teleology. You label them “mainstream”, and so whoever that was, their books become Bible? Lol... and of course this is all on approval from GOD (Constantine, lol!)
“Heresies”, defined by the “mainstream” sect, and excluding books read by other sects. Their content wasn't that of this mainstream non-heretical group... lol!
In other words, Constantine and his Bishops decided which books were to be included and in what form, in conformity to THEIR notion of what Christianity should be---a cult of Roman imperialism.
You're just repeating yourself and ignoring known facts..that existed before Constantine or the Bible...and it is documents already claiming those exclusions were heresies.
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#172 Oct 6, 2013
*There are documents that pre-date the Bible and Constantine that claim those exclusions were heresies...
thus neither are responds for exclusively claiming those books are heresies..
The books were being rejected much earlier on.

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

United States

#173 Oct 6, 2013
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
You ignore the extent to which the Church purged pagan beliefs and practices.
In recent decades most churches have strongly opposed homosexuality. In the West the acceptance of gays is a social thing which was never centered in the Church.
You speak much of Greeks but have not made a case that the Church ever thought that way.
Holidays such as Halloween was NOT purged along with Christmas & other Pagan Holidays. All have been kept alive through Western Christianity.

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