Dark Skin Documentary on Oprah Network

“Creole Coated!”

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#88 Jun 27, 2013
*And I do not see being a preference with no major benefits a plus at all.
if you're still not getting married

“Creole Coated!”

Level 6

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#89 Jun 27, 2013
London wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the average dark bw can certainly tell the difference between two people regardless of shade hooking up and loving each other than actual racism they experience. Again, we aren't speaking of preferences or happenstance meetings, regardless of shade..we are speaking of racism and that is not in any way the same thing as a preference.
This issue is pervasive to the point Hollywood starlets like Gabrielle have spoken out about it. The fact that so many want to pretend this form of racism isn't pervasive is very baffling and extremely curious.
Exactly..it's not about preferences..or it shouldn't be..but have it without trying to be superior to others....this goes both ways..there is no reason to now put down lighter BW in order to uplift darker BW..I have no idea why some men cannot do something some simple as upliftment of all their women..in fact..it's the smartest move they can make..making all their variety of women feel as equal as possible..securing a large pool..no woman likes to be neglected and second to the next..

“Creole Coated!”

Level 6

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#90 Jun 27, 2013
London wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think many dark bw are attempting to diminish light bw by speaking of their experiences of being a dark bw..the furthest away from the standard. I simply believe they are wanting to speak of their experiences. In a race based system, skin tone will determine our experiences to a large degree as even in the documentary a lighter woman was openly admitting she didn't know to be aware of the racism within the community until she had a darker little girl.
Many dark bw have light mothers who can in no way relate to the form of rejection darker bw receive and this doesn't get talked about and when it is brought up some attempt to make this solely a black issue within white society and it is not the same. The racism is bold and it is real and it does deserve a voice if done properly.
Interesting...How do you see it as done properly? Do you believe lighter BW with darker mother have somewhat of an understanding...I personally believe they do....obviously not "firsthand"...but certainly to some degree of knowledge, concern, and awareness
London

Columbus, OH

#91 Jun 27, 2013
Proud Sis wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you mean "they aren't black"?
Aren't black in the larger society..meaning the preference lighter bw get with bm in a lot of ways balances the hate, they feel in the larger society from not being black.(...oops, actually, I meant from not being white)..
Proud Sis wrote:
<quoted text>
And I do see being a preference with no major benefits a plus at all..even you're still not getting married, you're still a "baby mama", you're still being cheated on, etc.. What I observe is brown to dark BW being taken more serious when it comes to settling down in marriage and starting a family... on some level..light skinned BW are treated as objects to show-off..stroke the ego..
<quoted text>
Light bw and light women period are getting married from what I observed. I see your point that at the end of the day, whatever is prized, still must get the benefit of the resources etc..this trickles down to everyone and I don't see this. But this issue is still beyond romantic interests imo.
Proud Sis wrote:
<quoted text>

I think darker BW's voices are finally starting to be heard..I do hear more BM (and non) praising the beauty of darker women and combating all this verbal hate..however....a new trend of targeting lighter BW is slowly, but surely emerging..as if it's now ok..to call them "piss color" or "mutt breeds" etc...it's the same hate..different target..and I feel light skinned BW should have a right to shut it down right away and not have to wait for others to fight their own discrimination..
<quoted text>
And it will be the duty and job of darker bw to not reward racism. Period. Whomever has the wheel has the greater responsibility and that is the only way to make this form of racism just as unacceptable as the larger societies outright racism. This is afterall why so many blacks are upset with Paula Dean. It's simply not cool and quite frankly it's uncomfortable to be around a bold racist. Like whatever you want but there is no reason to hate on those who don't fit your preference and it's extremely egotistical to assume those you don't want even desire you in the first place. And I for one get really upset with the color divide because I can't relate to that type of hatred being of a family of all different skin tones and all of them beautiful in their own right.
Proud Sis wrote:
<quoted text>

^5...not to mention.. we're all connected..with dark and light mothers.sisters/daughters..so the impact of such verbal insults reach beyond the color of an individual woman..be it "dark butt" or "piss color"..
Exactly. If someone ever comes to me saying they don't like dark butts or they hate piss color they are going to have serious problems. I don't reward that. It's not cute and it's not a turn on in anyway..especially when the women who have loved, nurtured and protected me would never allow anyone to make me feel less then in their presence. I would never dishonor them by allowing foolishness in my presence.
London

Columbus, OH

#92 Jun 27, 2013
Proud Sis wrote:
<quoted text>Exactly..it's not about preferences..or it shouldn't be..but have it without trying to be superior to others....this goes both ways..there is no reason to now put down lighter BW in order to uplift darker BW..I have no idea why some men cannot do something some simple as upliftment of all their women..in fact..it's the smartest move they can make..making all their variety of women feel as equal as possible..securing a large pool..no woman likes to be neglected and second to the next..
Exactly. It starts with respecting the choices of other men. Men need to quit dictating to another man what his ding dong should respond to. And then establishing the fact that we are all black..what another man chooses is his own business in that regard as the variety of bw is vast. We can each have commentary about someones choices behind closed doors but skin tone should be off the table because that is being racist and blacks are supposed to be against racism..not for it.

And I still maintain that bw overall are much better at this than bm. I think bw have no problem seeing past a womans skin tone. yes, the skin tone may come up, even when you don't like her, but it doesn't penetrate our beings like many of these males. I truly believe this because I've witnessed it. Bw are much more likely to judge a bw on her character.
London

Columbus, OH

#93 Jun 27, 2013
Proud Sis wrote:
<quoted text>Interesting...How do you see it as done properly? Do you believe lighter BW with darker mother have somewhat of an understanding...I personally believe they do....obviously not "firsthand"...but certainly to some degree of knowledge, concern, and awareness
Done properly would be not victimizing dark bw..especially to the point of whining. And certainly not highlighting all negative aspects of being dark, such as highlighting the unattractive..as that doesn't do anything for dark bw overall.

--I do think light bw with darker mothers are extremely understanding. They roll hard against racism and especially racism against dark bw. They are extremely vigilante from my own perspective. God bless em.

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#94 Jun 27, 2013
While color of hue preferences do in fact exist within the African American culture, as it is so within all cultures; I am left wondering, what are the metrics we are using to establish the existence of these preferential treatments? Are we speaking ROMANTICALLY, number of dinner dates invitations per week per hue of color or are we talking clearly identifiable social benefits or job/career advantages?

Because if the metric is in fact romantic, and it's logical conclusion.....marriage, then one could argue that any perceived advantages are negligible because the marriage rates are low across the color soectrum, begging the question: if bm indeed find lighter hued sisters irresistible to the exclusion of the darker ones; why are they not wifing them at a greater rate?

And though an argument can be made about the archetypal image of black beauty that is publically disseminated via the information mediums; even if it was reverse; it would remain an inexact science because that choice is being made by others external to our culture, not by us.

While we are not immune to how we are perceived by others, the core image we have of ourselves is formed in the home where most of our views and perceptions of the external world is initially translated for us. So are we being fair in our distribution of blame or, are we simply scapegoating easy, convenient targets?

Level 8

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#95 Jun 27, 2013
London wrote:
<quoted text>
Because you brought up light women in a thread labeled for dark skin women. That means you are bringing up an issue in order to override and existing issue on the table..instead of simply bringing this issue up on it's own thread or different time.
Just because I brought up the fact that some of these issues are the same issues light skinned women have doesn't mean that I insensitively sought to divert the natural course of the thread by shifting the focus off of dark skinned sistas & attempting to place it on light skinned sistas.

Being that it is a thread, isn't it suspected that there's going to be people on it that consider this topic a tad deeper than others...or maybe not "deeper" but with a perspective that's different?

I mean if this is your way of trying to make me APPEAR partial to light skinned women, it's not working. I've never been into that KKKlassist bullsh!t...BUT YOU HAVE. So being that you have maybe you should stop projecting and work on matters pertaining to your own heart.
-- - - _ _ _SELORNAPADEN

Kansas City, MO

#96 Jun 27, 2013
DIRTY WHITECUNT

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havin
fun
makin
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with
people
on
these
AA FORUMS
just
a
heads
up
on
who
u r
dealin
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T M T

WHITE
RACIST
REDNEX
L O R N A
D A V I S
is
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F A M I L Y
1
on
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among
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ar
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havin
fun
makin
trouble
with
people
on
these
AA FORUMS
just
a
heads
up
on
who
u r
dealin
with
T M T
WHITE
RACIST
REDNEX
L O R N A
D A V I S
is
E X T E N D E D
F A M I L Y
1
on
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Level 9

Since: Nov 10

.

#98 Jun 27, 2013
I saw the documentary as well. The special touched my heart that it was appalling to watch. It was more proof of how much our race is so screwed up and shame on the parents for instilling this foolishness into those babies head or for allowing it to grow. When it came to this issue I saw failure in the parents for not teaching the kids to love themselves, plus others and for not teaching them about our history knowing this goes back to the time of slavery, a lesson on why we come in different tones should’ve be taught.

Given that everything comes from home, to hear parents telling their own children if you were a lighter tone you would be perfect was down right pathetic. I was the middle daughter of two other sisters and each one of us represented a different tone. My older sister was light skinned, yet she never thought she was better because my parents didn’t play that. There were times she would joke about our skin tone as all kids do and my little sister and I would laugh it off and throw a joke back at her, however if my Mom heard any jokes of us teasing each other she would confront us about our words. We never thought much of the words because my Mom infused in us that we are all beautiful and that love and belief stayed with us. If my Mom hadn’t stepped in who knows maybe those same words would still be in our minds today.

Seeing the documentary was just as bad as witnessing the foolishness that are posted on here. I know the interviewees does not represent all black Americans and by knowing that I was able to accept their feelings as only a few, but the few counts towards millions so I’m not sure if it helped or harmed our community even more, one thing I do know it proved so many are still controlled to hate and divide.

“ News”

Level 6

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#99 Jun 27, 2013
Cogito2 wrote:
While color of hue preferences do in fact exist within the African American culture, as it is so within all cultures; I am left wondering, what are the metrics we are using to establish the existence of these preferential treatments? Are we speaking ROMANTICALLY, number of dinner dates invitations per week per hue of color or are we talking clearly identifiable social benefits or job/career advantages?
Because if the metric is in fact romantic, and it's logical conclusion.....marriage, then one could argue that any perceived advantages are negligible because the marriage rates are low across the color soectrum, begging the question: if bm indeed find lighter hued sisters irresistible to the exclusion of the darker ones; why are they not wifing them at a greater rate?
And though an argument can be made about the archetypal image of black beauty that is publically disseminated via the information mediums; even if it was reverse; it would remain an inexact science because that choice is being made by others external to our culture, not by us.
While we are not immune to how we are perceived by others, the core image we have of ourselves is formed in the home where most of our views and perceptions of the external world is initially translated for us. So are we being fair in our distribution of blame or, are we simply scapegoating easy, convenient targets?
I believe when it's coming from a darkskinned womans point of view, 99.9% of the time it starts off coming from a romantic or social benefits point of viewing...dating etc... Then it grows in to a job/career point of view, causing them to believe that all darkskinned people are at a disadvantage. This type of thinking can be detrimental to the black race, not only in the streets, but in the family, immediate family included, if you have a darkskinned parent and lightskinned parent.

What's ironic is, most darkskinned black women have lightskinned husbands. So being a darkskinned rejected women is mostly in the head, when it comes to the majority. And I think Ophra Winfrey should know better.But anything that brings in profits is ok with blacks like her I guess.

Level 4

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#100 Jun 27, 2013
London wrote:
<quoted text> How we see ourselves is a reflection of how society views us or else we risk delusions. Delusions are counterproductive to a healthy and honest life. In spite of how society views us we can still achieve but it's important to acknowledge how society sees us. It's sociopathic not to. And I don't believe this issue is reserved for women. I believe dark men have the same scrutiny however if they just so happen to follow society in their romantic interest, they are much more widely accepted. So that's their way out. Whereas dark bw don't have that same social out.
<quoted text> When speaking of social acceptance, there is very little the individual can do to gain social acceptance beyond complying with the social standard. The problem is there is nothing one can do about their skin tone...and this is where the documentary missed the ball park, big time.
<quoted text> The problem with speaking with this issue is that everyone is going to have natural preferences. We must however find a way to define where and when those preferences turn to hate against what we don't prefer and also the disrespect shown to those who prefer something different. Also realizing this extends beyond romantic interests as well. We have gotten to a point where there is hate shown to dark bw and we have bold statements of attacks against dark bw in the media and this is virtually ignored in the black community and thought of as funny. And then even told by some in the black community when dark bw respond, that we are simply sensitive about our look.
Brilliant.

Level 4

Since: May 13

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#101 Jun 27, 2013
London wrote:
For me, I learned long ago that light women are the preference and the desire of the majority of men. I know in the black community the darker the man, the more his preference for light women is the case the majority of the time. In my circles of friends, we've never thought anything about a guys preference. What you like is what you like. But there comes a point where stating ones preference is not enough for some, they then spread hate against what they don't prefer and that's wrong. That's racism.
And I maintain blacks can not argue a case fully against massive social racism against all blacks until they first deal with the in house racism many of them think is perfectly okay to display and shout out boldly.
BRILLIANT.

Level 4

Since: May 13

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#102 Jun 27, 2013
London wrote:
<quoted text> Acknowledging how society sees us must be done or else we risk delusions which is not the way toward social acceptance and in fact is delusional. Being aware of our environment and surrounding comes with also acknowledging our "place" in that society as well. However, this acknowledgment doesn't then correlate to low self esteem and lack of confidence..unless the individual allows it to. Not anymore than those fitting the social standard totally absolved from personal responsibility of civility toward others.
<quoted text> This is not correct Redefined. Social standards are reality. It is very wrong to believe and teach anything different. It's not an illusion. However, it doesn't have to permeate every segment of our lives, the social standards, unless we allow it. Society is simply for society.
<quoted text> You are going to have some of this because the further one is away from the standard, the more pushback they get from society. This wears on anyone. It's not about confidence etc..it's about learning how to maneuver without taking things so personal. For some, they can do this with relative ease..whereas for some it's a much more difficult mountain to climb.
<quoted text> I don't see the value in these shows. Especially if they do a show labeled dark and over half of the people aren't even dark.
<quoted text> I don't believe the average dark bw feels ugly, hopeless nor has low self esteem. Many people put their insecurities off on dark bw and that's just as annoying as anything. But I for one am really tired of the issue and I don't think the documentary said anything useful. Just seemed like a bunch of whining and I have yet to figure out what the whining was for.
Who ARE you?! Why are you NOT a vocal leader?! You are BRILLIANT.
why

Wolverhampton, UK

#103 Jun 27, 2013
Every black women is wearing a wig now..whether she is old or young. its a wig, weave,piece,glue on,stick on, iron on,sew on hair. why should any man want them ..they have not even got their own hair!! they are completely shameless they are all suffering from self image distortion..they think they look like white barbie dolls when they look like kids in a dressing up dolls house..

“ News”

Level 6

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#104 Jun 27, 2013
MsNewNew wrote:
I saw the documentary as well. The special touched my heart that it was appalling to watch. It was more proof of how much our race is so screwed up and shame on the parents for instilling this foolishness into those babies head or for allowing it to grow. When it came to this issue I saw failure in the parents for not teaching the kids to love themselves, plus others and for not teaching them about our history knowing this goes back to the time of slavery, a lesson on why we come in different tones should’ve be taught.
Given that everything comes from home, to hear parents telling their own children if you were a lighter tone you would be perfect was down right pathetic. I was the middle daughter of two other sisters and each one of us represented a different tone. My older sister was light skinned, yet she never thought she was better because my parents didn’t play that. There were times she would joke about our skin tone as all kids do and my little sister and I would laugh it off and throw a joke back at her, however if my Mom heard any jokes of us teasing each other she would confront us about our words. We never thought much of the words because my Mom infused in us that we are all beautiful and that love and belief stayed with us. If my Mom hadn’t stepped in who knows maybe those same words would still be in our minds today.
Seeing the documentary was just as bad as witnessing the foolishness that are posted on here. I know the interviewees does not represent all black Americans and by knowing that I was able to accept their feelings as only a few, but the few counts towards millions so I’m not sure if it helped or harmed our community even more, one thing I do know it proved so many are still controlled to hate and divide.
Hello MsNewNew. long time no hear.

It's fortunate your mother stepped in and corrected that when you all were still very young. As wonderful and as sweet as my mother is, she did not. She being a darkskinned woman from the South, she married my lightskinned father from the North. She had regrets in the beginning and said she married my father because he was lightskinned, but I guess it worked it's way out as we grew older. However I could see she had symphathy for my darkskinned older brother, and she didn't correct him when he became of dating age, when he started showing outward jealousy towards me, and began saying things to her in front of me...things like lighskinned women like darktskinned boys. Meanwhile, I'm lightskinned like my father.

Just yesterday while I was talking to her over the phone, she began babbling about lightskinned favoriitism. She never spoke like this when my father was alive however. She may have been watching Oprah. That's another reason why I don't like those kind of shows. All they do is reopen wounds, and some of them never were close at it is. It's like throwing fire on fire. I began talking about the true pain it can be being a light skinned black person. Surprisingly she almost sounded a little happy, Then I started rubbing it in, and she began getting a little irritated when I started indicating that half of it comes from people thinking like her, and the other half from whites. Then I changed the subject.

What makes it worst is, big black names in the media tend to go a ong with this lightskinned favoritism. I think they're all selling out to something we just do see right now.

“Creole Coated!”

Level 6

Since: Jan 11

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#105 Jun 27, 2013
London wrote:
<quoted text>
Done properly would be not victimizing dark bw..especially to the point of whining. And certainly not highlighting all negative aspects of being dark, such as highlighting the unattractive..as that doesn't do anything for dark bw overall.
Agree..I think darker BW should take the lead in securing their own image..be it directly or indirectly..."promoting " themselves....and not leave it to others
London wrote:
--I do think light bw with darker mothers are extremely understanding. They roll hard against racism and especially racism against dark bw. They are extremely vigilante from my own perspective. God bless em.
I agree..interesting enough.. a good amount of these same light skinned daughters probably have darker daughters...so there should be some level of combating the hate..

“Creole Coated!”

Level 6

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#106 Jun 27, 2013
London wrote:
Aren't black in the larger society..meaning the preference lighter bw get with bm in a lot of ways balances the hate, they feel in the larger society from not being black.(...oops, actually, I meant from not being white)..
I don't get that train of thought..light skinned BW are still Black..their experience within the Black community and without isn't the same as WW/non-BW....it may not be the same as darker skinned BW, but they don't define being a BW alone.
London wrote:
Light bw and light women period are getting married from what I observed. I see your point that at the end of the day, whatever is prized, still must get the benefit of the resources etc..this trickles down to everyone and I don't see this. But this issue is still beyond romantic interests imo.
There are more Brown/Darker BW than lighter BW....so most BM are actually married to brown/darker BW than they are lighter BW....I don't really see more lighter BW being made wives over the darker sistas..
London wrote:
Exactly. If someone ever comes to me saying they don't like dark butts or they hate piss color they are going to have serious problems. I don't reward that. It's not cute and it's not a turn on in anyway..especially when the women who have loved, nurtured and protected me would never allow anyone to make me feel less then in their presence. I would never dishonor them by allowing foolishness in my presence.
^5 It's a shame..we're still talking about the color of our skin..it should have been a dead issues generations ago..

Level 9

Since: Nov 10

.

#108 Jun 27, 2013
KPITRL wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello MsNewNew. long time no hear.
It's fortunate your mother stepped in and corrected that when you all were still very young. As wonderful and as sweet as my mother is, she did not. She being a darkskinned woman from the South, she married my lightskinned father from the North. She had regrets in the beginning and said she married my father because he was lightskinned, but I guess it worked it's way out as we grew older. However I could see she had symphathy for my darkskinned older brother, and she didn't correct him when he became of dating age, when he started showing outward jealousy towards me, and began saying things to her in front of me...things like lighskinned women like darktskinned boys. Meanwhile, I'm lightskinned like my father.
Just yesterday while I was talking to her over the phone, she began babbling about lightskinned favoriitism. She never spoke like this when my father was alive however. She may have been watching Oprah. That's another reason why I don't like those kind of shows. All they do is reopen wounds, and some of them never were close at it is. It's like throwing fire on fire. I began talking about the true pain it can be being a light skinned black person. Surprisingly she almost sounded a little happy, Then I started rubbing it in, and she began getting a little irritated when I started indicating that half of it comes from people thinking like her, and the other half from whites. Then I changed the subject.
What makes it worst is, big black names in the media tend to go a ong with this lightskinned favoritism. I think they're all selling out to something we just do see right now.
Good afternoon Kpitrl, yes its been awhile and I hope all is well with you.

From my Mom being born in the Deep South and her too being in a family of different tones she told us about what she seen and what her parents taught them. After only a few discussions we understood and decided to check each other on something different. Favoritism and the feel of rejection can hit your self-esteem hard if it’s done over and over. Once your esteem is damage it doesn’t matter how positive things seem, one simple problem will set your mind back to the past.

I’m sure your Mom meant well and she didn’t see any wrong in it. It’s a good thing you were able to see the difference between right and wrong. Not necessarily meaning the memories are not there but you learned you will not let it take over your life. Your Mom had feelings locked up. She was able to relate with your brother and felt she didn’t want to rock the boat with your dad. Isn’t it wonderful though, as we get older we are able to tell our parents how we really feel in a respectable way?

I was upset when I saw the tears of one teenager because she felt unwanted only after her Mom spoke so highly of her until the end when her Mom said “Girl if you were a little lighter you would be something else”. Most parents forget kids can always slip into the room and this is why I tell people everything you do and say affects your child. This is a cycle we go through with every generation and I believe today’s youth are having a rough time with their identity.

I was wondering too why this show was on. Oprah needed good ratings, I guess. I hate she pick shows that show us at our worst.
London

Columbus, OH

#109 Jun 27, 2013
Proud Sis wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't get that train of thought..light skinned BW are still Black..their experience within the Black community and without isn't the same as WW/non-BW....it may not be the same as darker skinned BW, but they don't define being a BW alone.
<quoted text>
I agree. Light bw are black. They also face racism from the larger society from being black. They are prized in the black community though..so in some ways, this gives them validation they aren't getting in the larger society. I worded that wrongly originally which is why I went back and corrected it..it was worded poorly.
Proud Sis wrote:
<quoted text>
There are more Brown/Darker BW than lighter BW....so most BM are actually married to brown/darker BW than they are lighter BW....I don't really see more lighter BW being made wives over the darker sistas..
<quoted text>
Well marriage rates are so low in the black community that I no longer use that as a yard stick for much of anything anymore. I would be curious to know if this is actually true though..if there are more dark bw than lighter bw. I may have a distorted picture of this because of the circle I'm in. But either way, for me, this issue is more about expressed hatred than who someone prefers romantically. It's not about dating options to me because in that regard we all should simply get in where we fit in and it's not good to guilt people in to being with someone they feel nothing toward. So by all means..get with who you want.
Racism to me isn't about preference. Racism is expressed hatred toward the non preference and I don't think this is being addressed.
Proud Sis wrote:
<quoted text>

^5 It's a shame..we're still talking about the color of our skin..it should have been a dead issues generations ago..
Absolutely. Funny thing is I remember when it was a virtually dead issue and skin tone was spoken about in a more light hearted and loving way as far as preference. Imo, the influx of lots of Caribbean blacks impacted black americans greatly in regards to this issue. But I believe this is it as far as it all goes.. I believe this "issue" is here to stay.

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