Activist: "Abortion Threatens Black America's Future"

Sep 24, 2012 Full story: Booker Rising 5,403

The From Catholic Online : "Adding to the argument that abortion threatens one sector of American society over others, Catherine Davis, president of The Restoration Project, pointed out to the great racial disparity of women currently getting abortions." The article continues: "Davis said that according to the Centers for Disease Control, ... (more)

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Katja

Tulsa, OK

#3210 Feb 3, 2014
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> If?..you're not sure if women enjoy sexual pleasure or there is something wrong with admitting it?
<quoted text> What are you talking about? I made a statement to a claim (We females, after all, exist for male pleasure and the continuation of their bloodline) by the other poster..since when did women not enjoy pleasuring men or being pleasured by men as well (as if this wrong now)?
<quoted text> Victims of sexual pleasure....that's has contradiction written all over it....What you should have said was victim of women's sexual irresponsibility unless you think women should own be responsible for their bodies AFTER the fact?
I'm certain that I enjoy sexual pleasure, and that rather than 'admitting' it, as if it was some sort of crime, I proudly state it, on a rather regular basis.

It's not wrong to enjoy sexual pleasure, and it's not wrong to decline gestation...even if sexual pleasure results in a pregnancy.

There are two courses of action: gestate or abort. Personally, I don't care which the pregnant women decides on. Obviously, you feel the need to involve yourself in her decision.

A real lady knows when to mind her own business.
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#3211 Feb 3, 2014
dedbebbies wrote:
<quoted text>Of course I'm serious. Pregnancy is a benefit only to the fetus, which gives back nothing to the woman's body during gestation.
Pregnancy doesn't begin with gestation.
dedbebbies wrote:
I realize you don't like this fact, but that's not my problem.(If you can find a physical benefit to the woman, while her bones and teeth provide her fetus with calcium, her blood provides its circulatory and waste removal systems, her muscles, tissues, and bones radically change in structure, and supplying the fetus with every means of continued life puts a strain on her heart, kidneys, lungs, etc.- to the point where every pregnancy has the potential to end her life....? I'd certainly like to hear it.).
Oh..now you sneaked in physical benefit (although it's been reported to give some as well)? LOL
I thought before you were claiming no benefit whatsoever...
Anyways..some claim.. sex is even better (and not just for the pleasure of men ha)...but there is an increased blood flow to the pelvic area which helps with those amazing orgasm.. you know those pregnancy hormones heighten the libido:)

Some studies claim pregnancy (as well as breast feeding) is a great protector against breast and ovarian cancers, and other forms of cancer.
Katja

Tulsa, OK

#3212 Feb 3, 2014
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> What was there to misunderstand..you clearly said in post #3170:Is that murder?(You pose the question to me for my opinion) I say it's the ultimate in PREMEDITATED killing

IVF embryos are created with the idea of killing some of them as part of the process. I'd say that was premeditated killing - wouldn't you?
(Notice, I didn't refer to it as 'murder'....I asked if YOU did. You still haven't answered this. Nice dodge.)
Lisa wrote:
You do know..you're the one who brought up people with disabilites right?
With your statement here in post # 3170: "One example: a fetus with a severe brain anomaly, which will most likely result in a child with severe to profound developmental disabilities." What would be different for "this pregnancy" vs.. any other?
You'd have to ask a woman who has aborted a pregnancy because of that diagnosis.

Hint: it's the main reason for most later term abortions....in addition to saving the mother's life.

You've repeatedly indicated that abortion should be a crime, and consistently avoided stating what you think the punishment should be for obtaining one.

But yes, I brought up developmental disabilities first, in a different post, on a different topic - specifically how you would have a woman punished under those circumstances.

I wouldn't.
But then again, I don't believe abortion of a non-diagnosed fetus is, or should be, a crime, either. Pretty sure you do.

Next...
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#3213 Feb 3, 2014
Katja wrote:
<quoted text>I'm certain that I enjoy sexual pleasure, and that rather than 'admitting' it, as if it was some sort of crime, I proudly state it, on a rather regular basis.
It's not wrong to enjoy sexual pleasure, and it's not wrong to decline gestation...even if sexual pleasure results in a pregnancy.
Well if you enjoy sexual pleasure (with men) and it's no crime to admit it..then I don't see how anyone can claim women exist for male pleasure and have a problem with it..do you?
Katja wrote:
There are two courses of action: gestate or abort. Personally, I don't care which the pregnant women decides on. Obviously, you feel the need to involve yourself in her decision.
A real lady knows when to mind her own business.
A real lady mind her business if she sees a child being molested or kidnapped too or you get to make the rules on when a real lady should minds her business?
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#3214 Feb 3, 2014
dedbebbies wrote:
No, you're referring to the joy a happily pregnant woman takes, in gestating.
I get it. I have two kids, and loved them dearly...anticipated their arrivals with effervescent happiness...just like I did when I was pregnant with the five who didn't become 'babies'.
A woman who doesn't anticipate the arrival of her child, with joy and curiosity, looking forward to being a mom, is NOT benefiting in ANY WAY from being pregnant - not even psychologically.
But it was a nice try.....
You asked about pregnancy period..you didn't make a distinction in expectant mothers....
dedbebbies wrote:
<quoted text>It's even sadder when a woman tries to pretend to another woman that her emotions trump the other's, and should dictate the other's actions. Your feelings about fetuses, are in no way more valid than anyone else's..
and neither is your feelings on abortion, but this should be understood already...
dedbebbies wrote:
<quoted text>I'm no less a woman because you don't like my viewpoint, dear.
You don't get to define my femininity by your own..
Neither one of us can define feminity..It is what it is..that is why I asked you if you could be so far removed from YOUR feminity..not mines or what I think feminity is or should be...
dedbebbies wrote:
<quoted text>Safe, sterile abortion is also an advancement in medical science. And frankly, it's already not an 'issue' for most.
..
Whoever claimmed it was ever an actual for most to begin with?
dedbebbies wrote:
It's an issue for pregnant women. Period.
In case you hadn't noticed, most humans aren't pregnant.
Really..just pregnant women? I thought it was a woman's right issue? So there are only pregnant women who are supporters of abortion?
Katja

Tulsa, OK

#3215 Feb 3, 2014
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> Pregnancy doesn't begin with gestation.
Life doesn't begin at conception either. Life began billions of years ago.

Are you trying to pull a Jan Brewer here, honey?
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> Oh..now you sneaked in physical benefit
I specified a benefit to her body, rather than her emotional affect. You then went off on a 'femininity' rant.

*shrug*
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text>I thought before you were claiming no benefit whatsoever...
What you thought, as the result of your lack of reading comprehension, is not my problem....
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text>Anyways..some claim.. sex is even better (and not just for the pleasure of men ha)...but there is an increased blood flow to the pelvic area which helps with those amazing orgasm.. you know those pregnancy hormones heighten the libido:)
Okay, you've provided anecdotal evidence. Got a link to a scientific paper on the subject?

When did I EVER say sexual pleasure was 'just' for the pleasure of either gender?
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text>Some studies claim pregnancy (as well as breast feeding) is a great protector against breast and ovarian cancers, and other forms of cancer.
Some CPC's claim abortion causes them. What's your point?
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#3216 Feb 3, 2014
Katja wrote:
<quoted text>
IVF embryos are created with the idea of killing some of them as part of the process. I'd say that was premeditated killing - wouldn't you?
of course...would you say abortion is also killing?
(Notice, I didn't refer to it as 'murder'....
That would be why I asked you about killing..not murder...
Katja wrote:
I asked if YOU did. You still haven't answered this. Nice dodge.)
What is there to dodge? I clearly said (the first time around)..it's abortion as well..which is murder..
Katja wrote:
<quoted text> You'd have to ask a woman who has aborted a pregnancy because of that diagnosis..
Why you don't have an answer..you're the one who asked about disabilities
Katja wrote:
Hint: it's the main reason for most later term abortions....in addition to saving the mother's life.
You've repeatedly indicated that abortion should be a crime, and consistently avoided stating what you think the punishment should be for obtaining one.
.
You asked me about a certain type of abortion..remember..those with "severe brain anomaly, which will most likely result in a child with severe to profound developmental disabilities." and the mother and doctors who would assist in aborting...I told you..I don't feel the punishment should be any different from another abortion... Do you disagree? you feel these fetus have less worth or something?
Katja wrote:
But yes, I brought up developmental disabilities first, in a different post, on a different topic - specifically how you would have a woman punished under those circumstances.
I wouldn't.
But then again, I don't believe abortion of a non-diagnosed fetus is, or should be, a crime, either. Pretty sure you do.
Next...
My response was to your comment on developmental disabilities on the same topic..so you're the one who singled them out..not I..try to keep it honest
Katja

Tulsa, OK

#3217 Feb 3, 2014
Lisa wrote:
Well if you enjoy sexual pleasure (with men) and it's no crime to admit it..then I don't see how anyone can claim women exist for male pleasure and have a problem with it..do you?
Your word salad aside, if anyone claims women (or men) exist for ANY ONE REASON, regardless of what that reason may be, and attempts to legislate behavior as a result of that claim, then yes, I have a problem with it.

Don't you??
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> A real lady mind her business if she sees a child being molested or kidnapped too or you get to make the rules on when a real lady should minds her business?
Hey, you're the one who's trying to codify 'ladylike'. I'm just rollin' with your flow, baby.

Next...
Katja

Tulsa, OK

#3218 Feb 3, 2014
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> of course...would you say abortion is also killing?
(Notice, I didn't refer to it as 'murder'....
That would be why I asked you about killing..not murder...
Yes, it's killing. Not all killing is, or should be illegal. Abortion falls into the 'legal killing' category, as does the killing of embryos resulting from IVF procedures. Just checking your honesty.
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text>What is there to dodge? I clearly said (the first time around)..it's abortion as well..which is murder..
So IVF is murder. Thanks for finally taking a position.

At least you're consistent.
Next...
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#3219 Feb 3, 2014
Katja wrote:
<quoted text> Life doesn't begin at conception either. Life began billions of years ago.
Are you trying to pull a Jan Brewer here, honey?
<quoted text>
I specified a benefit to her body, rather than her emotional affect. You then went off on a 'femininity' rant.
*shrug*
this is your comment: Pregnancy is a benefit only to the fetus, which gives back nothing to the woman's body during gestation....
you are clearly talking about gestation..while pregnancy extends far before that..
And another post of your's even goes beyond the "physical benefits"... A woman who doesn't anticipate the arrival of her child, with joy and curiosity, looking forward to being a mom, is NOT benefiting in ANY WAY from being pregnant - not even psychologically....
so you're talking about just her body or you're not? You want to later add in her mental state, but I cannot bring in her emotional state? come on now
Katja wrote:
What you thought, as the result of your lack of reading comprehension, is not my problem....
negative.. unless you're now willing to admit that pregnancy does benefit the woman in some way?
Katja wrote:
When did I EVER say sexual pleasure was 'just' for the pleasure of either gender?
When did I say you did?
Katja wrote:
Some CPC's claim abortion causes them. What's your point?
Abortion causes what cancer?.You made a claim that pregnancy doesn't benefit the woman physically...but some studies claimed other ways..
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#3220 Feb 3, 2014
Katja wrote:
<quoted text>Your word salad aside, if anyone claims women (or men) exist for ANY ONE REASON, regardless of what that reason may be, and attempts to legislate behavior as a result of that claim, then yes, I have a problem with it.
Don't you??.
The other poster never said women exist solely for a man's pleasure....just that we do..as if that was a problem...you seem to admit women enjoy pleasuring men as well as being pleasured by men..
Katja wrote:

<quoted text> Hey, you're the one who's trying to codify 'ladylike'. I'm just rollin' with your flow, baby.
Next...
I didn't write the definition of ladylike sweetie :)
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#3221 Feb 3, 2014
Katja wrote:
<quoted text> Yes, it's killing. Not all killing is, or should be illegal. Abortion falls into the 'legal killing' category, as does the killing of embryos resulting from IVF procedures. Just checking your honesty..
I do believe there is a time for killing (like war, death penalty, or self-defense)..Abortion doesn't qualify as a NEED (for protection/safety or judgment)..
Katja wrote:
<quoted text>So IVF is murder. Thanks for finally taking a position.
At least you're consistent.
Next...
You're welcome
enjoy the rest of day :)
Katja

Tulsa, OK

#3222 Feb 3, 2014
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> You asked about pregnancy period..you didn't make a distinction in expectant mothers....
I didn't ask about pregnancy at all. I asked what you believe the punishment should be for obtaining an abortion.
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> and neither is your feelings on abortion, but this should be understood already...
What's with the word salad? My feelings on abortion are
limited to my abortion. I don't take a position on anyone's pregnancies but my own.

My own position is that abortion should be and remain legal, under whatever circumstances the pregnant woman deems it necessary. Period.
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> Neither one of us can define feminity..It is what it is..
So what is it?

It's what each individual woman says it is, when referring to her own. I know that's pretty subtle, but work it out for yourself.
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> that is why I asked you if you could be so far removed from YOUR feminity..not mines or what I think feminity is or should be...
I wasn't far removed from my femininity....I wasn't removed at all from my femininity. I'm still not 'removed' from my femininity, even though I still contend that a woman's body obtains no benefits from being pregnant.

Does that answer your question?

Let's move on.
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> Whoever claimmed it was ever an actual for most to begin with?
You did - you claim to be actually entitled to weigh in on another woman's reproductive decisions.
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> Really..just pregnant women? I thought it was a woman's right issue? So there are only pregnant women who are supporters of abortion?
Again, what you 'thought' is your concern. What I said was, Abortion is a pregnancy issue. Only pregnant people have abortions.

As a political issue, however, there are many un-pregnant people who have an opinion on the subject. Mine is that my opinion of whether or not abortion is 'wrong', is moot, unless I'm the one pregnant.

Yours seems to be that your opinion should be codified for everyone pregnant..
Katja

Tulsa, OK

#3223 Feb 3, 2014
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text>
this is your comment: Pregnancy is a benefit only to the fetus, which gives back nothing to the woman's body during gestation....
you are clearly talking about gestation..while pregnancy extends far before that..
And another post of your's even goes beyond the "physical benefits"... A woman who doesn't anticipate the arrival of her child, with joy and curiosity, looking forward to being a mom, is NOT benefiting in ANY WAY from being pregnant - not even psychologically....
so you're talking about just her body or you're not? You want to later add in her mental state, but I cannot bring in her emotional state? come on now
<quoted text> negative.. unless you're now willing to admit that pregnancy does benefit the woman in some way?
<quoted text> When did I say you did?
<quoted text> Abortion causes what cancer?.You made a claim that pregnancy doesn't benefit the woman physically...but some studies claimed other ways..
You see that part where I specifically said "...to the woman's body." ?

I can't help it if you missed that, you know. Scrambling around trying to dissemble about what you 'thought' I meant, isn't helping your credibility.

I could have been redundant, and specified 'physical' as well, but I don't see redundancy as helpful to advancing my points.

Read this carefully:
"... A woman who doesn't
[does not]
anticipate the arrival of her child, with joy and curiosity, looking forward to being a mom,

is NOT benefiting in ANY WAY from being pregnant - not even psychologically..."

I stand by this statement. But if you can show where she IS obtaining a psychological benefit, from being unwillingly pregnant, I'll be happy to give it some thought.

Next...

“Home is Where the Heart is”

Level 2

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#3224 Feb 3, 2014
Katja wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't ask about pregnancy at all.
..
Yes..you did..We were talking about the benefits of pregnacy to the woman..
Katja wrote:
I asked what you believe the punishment should be for obtaining an abortion..
It should go through the process..that all murder charges do.
Katja wrote:
<quoted text>What's with the word salad? My feelings on abortion are
limited to my abortion. I don't take a position on anyone's pregnancies but my own.
My own position is that abortion should be and remain legal, under whatever circumstances the pregnant woman deems it necessary. Period...
Your feelings on emotion is not limited to your personal experiences...you were influenced way before that..in order to make such a decision..and you contniue to be influence by the same forces/factors...adding on to it being personal for you now..in order to support your position..
Katja wrote:
<quoted text>So what is it?
It's what each individual woman says it is, when referring to her own. I know that's pretty subtle, but work it out for yourself....


Nah...
It's what it says it is: the quality of being female; womanliness ....and that does include "pregnancy" (clearly....you hinted to understanding that when you said "men are born the wrong sex")..it doesn't mean each woman has to be pregnant....it just mean the beauty of pregnacy is a feminine/womanly quality....to not see beauty in that is questionale to your feminity..as it's nature (pregnancy) is designed for our gender
Katja wrote:
<quoted text>I wasn't far removed from my femininity....I wasn't removed at all from my femininity. I'm still not 'removed' from my femininity, even though I still contend that a woman's body obtains no benefits from being pregnant.
Does that answer your question?
Let's move on...
We can move on..but how do you not feel your feminity "slipping" from YOU...if you're made to feel no beauty in what deems you a woman... the joy of pregnacy (even if you don't directly experience it or want too..it is still a design for women) or sexual pleasure of men (if you're hetorsexual)..why has this become a questionable thing?
Katja wrote:
<quoted text>You did - you claim to be actually entitled to weigh in on another woman's reproductive decisions....
nope..I feel I have a right to attempt to protect the unborn from murder...
Katja wrote:
<quoted text> Again, what you 'thought' is your concern. What I said was, Abortion is a pregnancy issue. Only pregnant people have abortions.....
That still doesn't make sense..as there are other people who support abortion and not just pregnant people..Funny enough...Women don't seem to allow men to decide if he's ready to be a father....they decide to give birth (or not) without his consent..and if they do decide to birth..they use the law to take away some of his income (Yet he has no rights in when to become a father)..let me guess..he should be sexually responsible before she gets knocked up...yet she doesn't hold herself to the same standard (minus rape of course)
Katja wrote:
As a political issue, however, there are many un-pregnant people who have an opinion on the subject. Mine is that my opinion of whether or not abortion is 'wrong', is moot, unless I'm the one pregnant.
Yours seems to be that your opinion should be codified for everyone pregnant..
Societies are shaped & reshaped over and over again by it's people..the group that can influence "by any means"..seems to win out in the end..

“Home is Where the Heart is”

Level 2

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#3225 Feb 3, 2014
.if you're made to feel no beauty in what deems you a woman...
***should be: if you're made to feel (or see) no beauty in that which is included in womanhood

“Home is Where the Heart is”

Level 2

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#3226 Feb 3, 2014
Katja wrote:
<quoted text>You see that part where I specifically said "...to the woman's body." ?
I can't help it if you missed that, you know. Scrambling around trying to dissemble about what you 'thought' I meant, isn't helping your credibility.
I could have been redundant, and specified 'physical' as well, but I don't see redundancy as helpful to advancing my points.
You're cutting off your own comments...Here it goes again:
"Pregnancy is a benefit only to the fetus, which gives back nothing to the woman's body during gestation"....

That is telling me you're limiting the woman's body benefits to gestation....
I, on the other hand....factored in the whole pregnancy and the benefits to the woman besides the physical ones claimed..
Katja wrote:
Read this carefully:
"... A woman who doesn't
[does not]
anticipate the arrival of her child, with joy and curiosity, looking forward to being a mom,
is NOT benefiting in ANY WAY from being pregnant - not even psychologically..."
I stand by this statement. But if you can show where she IS obtaining a psychological benefit, from being unwillingly pregnant, I'll be happy to give it some thought.
Next...
You do know you first started out about pregnancy right? now..you're expanding it to different type of expectant mothers...but we were not originally talking about expectant moms..but pregnancy..itself..

“Define Necessity”

Since: Mar 13

FOR YOURSELF

#3227 Feb 3, 2014
Lisa wrote:
<quoted text> The other poster never said women exist solely for a man's pleasure....just that we do..
Make up your mind....if you have one.

Did she say it, or not?

Lisa wrote:
<I didn't write the definition of ladylike sweetie :)
Well, you gave it the ol' college try.....but you failed.

Unless you'd now like to claim that ladies aren't necessarily feminine...

Next...
carmen

Memphis, TN

#3228 Feb 3, 2014
IR BW wrote:
<quoted text> why isn't it? You're claiming the fetus should have no rights and whether "it" lives or die "is off the whim of women/the mother"...
The fetus doesn't have a right to life. If it inherently had a right to life, there would be no such thing as miscarriages (which is a form of abortion). The fetus and all human life is **dependent** on the mom.
IR BW wrote:
<quoted text> why though? I am a woman..not a feminist..huge difference.
This isn't a feminist issue. I'm not a feminist in any way, shape or form. However, that doesn't mean I believe the humanity of women should be disregarded either.
IR BW wrote:
<quoted text> She cannot legally abort whenever she please..the state can legally refuse her abortion and force her to carry to term in some cases..
As with anything, there must be boundaries within allowances. There is a point where there is a visible heartbeat etc..and goes from fetus to the next stage of development. At some point, abortion should and is off the table.
IR BW wrote:
<quoted text> People are told legally all the time what they can or cannot do with their own bodies.... Most criminal charges have been overturned..not civil when a pregnant woman takes illegal drugs and harm the unborn...
Well as we've all kinda agreed with--no matter what side of this issue we fall on..that, just because something is legal sure doesn't mean it's right. Women should most certainly have autonomy to their own bodies.

If women are going to be blamed for social ills in regards to child rearing, women themselves should certainly be able to decide if they want to participate to begin with. If they aren't in a good place mentally, physically, emotionally, financially, they should have the choice to do what is good from them. Abortion is a much more humane act than having a baby who has addictions.
IR BW wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody has ever denied that a fetus needs a host.... We're debating if the host has (or should have) the right to subjugate it's dependent..
Subjugation is not the appropriate word for this issue. Women didn't decide to carry life..therefore, they shouldn't be blamed for it.
IR BW wrote:
<quoted text>
Abortion has nothing to do with feminism? Feminism hold stand is the push to secure as many rights as possible for women...and all those pro-abortions advocate on the grounds of women's rights...
I don't know anyone whose pro-abortion. Most I know are for the womans right to choose. This isn't a feminist issue. In truth, feminism shouldn't need to exist to begin with. Respect for women should be inheritent to the existence of humanity.
IR BW wrote:
<quoted text>
Now they do, but didn't the once make claims..Blacks weren't even human?
Social science claims a lot of things. It's used primarily to construct societies..however, social science isn't considered true science. Social science is highly political. I haven't read anything from "true" science which has stated blacks aren't considered human.
IR BW wrote:
<quoted text> I wasn't claiming fetuses were babies...I was pointing out the facts...that babies and children are individuals even though they have to depend on others for many things.. when you made this claim:You can't be your own individual if you are dependent on another for survival.
Babies and children are persons. They are outside of the body and not dependent on a host for growth. That is a huge difference.

“Home is Where the Heart is”

Level 2

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#3229 Feb 3, 2014
dedbebbies wrote:
<quoted text>Make up your mind....if you have one.
Did she say it, or not?
and are you following me..don't logout and lin when I do :P
..
Try to follow...She did not say "SOLELY"
dedbebbies wrote:
<quoted text>Well, you gave it the ol' college try.....but you failed.
Unless you'd now like to claim that ladies aren't necessarily feminine...
Next...
Huh...you're the one who's struggling with a definitions honey...pick up a dictionary....let's not rewrite words and their meanings...

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