Stroke trigger more deadly for African-Americans

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“Home is Where the Heart is”

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Feb 9, 2014
 

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Spotted Girl,

I don't know why your other thread got deleted....as I was attempting to answer your post to me...so I started this one with it...
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
The risks tend to cascade. Smoking constricts the vessels. Bad diet and obesity is a major risk factor, and obesity can lead to immunity problems, and diabetes. Diabetes damages vessels and leads to heart disease and stroke risk.
And health research has been in a double bind. If they experiment on Black subjects, there are accusations of racism, attempted genocide, etc., but if they don't and BP get medicine that is more effective on WP, since that is the only study group tested, then the doctors, government, hospitals,etc., get blamed for being racist. But in recent years, there have been Black-only study groups, and different medications were found. So the fear of being labeled as racist actually hindered valuable research.
I got on the vitamin D kick sometime back. I got to thinking about why there is a difference in various diseases between race and gender, and that vitamin became the unifying factor. For instance, boys are more likely to be autistic than girls, or at least get it worse. Then I discovered that females are better at conserving vitamin D (good quality to have during pregnancy). And with blood pressure and heart disease, BP tend to have more problems there in America (but not in Africa according to a couple publications). So I was thinking, what do BP get in Africa rather than here? That led to thinking about a more direct sun (equator) and housing that is not up to our standards. So that would affect vitamin D levels.
Unfortunately there is a rapid growth in tobacco use in African countries (and what will follow sadly..will be the same health problems found in the West).. Obesity rates among Africans are relatively low in some areas, but they are climbing like the rest of the world....due to the increase in development..We have become less physically active...

As far as African American intake of vitamin D via the sun, they have as much access as other Americans; so i'm not sure why they would need to be in Africa for that <shrugs>..
There is trouble in absorption......the claim is that dark pigment blocks light which will reduce the effectiveness of vitamin D via the sun for dark skinned people.....With that knowledge..when speaking of Africans "in this regard"...the publications you read may have been of "lighter" Africans perhaps?...

Where the insufficiency probably comes into play (one of the reasons) is the access to quality "assistances" .in the area of food & medical treatment (mainly preventive care)..

*Speaking of Africa....in my home country (Seychelles)..our main delicacy is fish...and fatty fish is a very good source of vitamin D..

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Feb 9, 2014
 

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I didn't create that other thread, but merely replied first. Only Topix can create "official" threads which contain story links in the lede. In the past, volunteer editors could do that, but they discontinued that program. So the first poster is only the creator of user threads, not the more formal threads. Otherwise it is "Roboblogger" or whatever the Topix topic starter robot is called. It crawls the newswires and adds stories here as threads.

Actually, obesity can be a sign of poverty. The body is made to go into a conservation mode in times of famine. Then on top of it, the cheapest foods you can buy are the least nutritious. Sugar costs a whole lot less than fruits and vegetables, and corn syrup is even cheaper due to political reasons. We pay tariffs on sugar cane that is imported, but corn syrup is produced right here in the US, so no import taxes, no tariffs, and less transportation costs. And HFCS doesn't contain any higher levels of fructose than ordinary sugar. It has "high fructose" in the name because it has any at all. It was not created from "genetically engineered" corn, but through selective breeding.

Let me explain the sun thing. See, vitamin D is made in the skin, and melanin blocks the sun, meaning that darker skin is capable of making less. White people need less sun since they have less melanin. There is more sun in northern Africa, Latin America, and other places closer to the equator. The angle is different and the days are longer. Plus with more tribal cultures and more outdoor labor, there is more exposure.

The publications were talking about dark-skinned Black people in both Africa and America. So same skin tone, but one group living where they are closer to the sun (more UV radiation) and where the sun has a longer day cycle. Plus there are cultural differences such as more tribes and poverty, thus everyone working outside more. The closer you live to the equator, the hotter it is. Southern Africa would be a little closer to America in climate, and if I am not mistaken, the skin tones tend to be lighter there compared to northern Africa. Only the 2 temperate regions have 4 seasons. The closer to the poles, there are only two seasons, and both are cold. The poles have sun for 24-hours during the 6-month "Summer." So if you move there, don't tell your kids that they have to come in when it gets dark during that part of the year - they won't come in.:-) I've never been around the equator, but I've heard they have only 2 seasons too - hot and wet.

Yes, diet also plays a role. It is only possible to overdose on vitamin D orally. The way it is made in the skin, there is no possible way to overdose that way. If you have too much, the skin cannot make more. And foods are not that rich in it, so good diet and reasonable exposure won't cause an overdose. So you can only overdose through supplements. In the US, vitamin D is relatively cheap, but the government has their recommendations too low, and they make no distinction between races or genders, and only one age difference, and both recommendations are too low. The standards are 200 IU/day for kids and 400 IU/day for adults. It is like doctors and government scientists are a bit scared of it. Now for bed-ridden African Americans, about 7,000 IU per day is what some doctors recommend.

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#4
Feb 9, 2014
 
My Shoes Need Shined wrote:
The original, "official" thread was deleted because hypersensitive crybaby blacks can't stand the truth about their frail freak-of-nature selves......
Nah, it is more a matter of Topix moderators reaching the point of not giving a dump. So they take the shortcut of deleting an entire thread after a single complaint. They may also be getting more PC. Why do you think they have Politix and the New Offbeat? It is to control people more. The structure of Politix itself yields less trolling, and they also have tighter TOS there - I cannot participate there. I lost a FB account used to sign in, and when I created a new ID and posted 3 things according to my previous tone, I was banned. I left hundreds of strong posts before. So I figured they got more PC and started banning people for Conservative posts, pro-life posts, and traditional values posts.

I think all people who want to truly discuss things should start looking for other places. SodaHead is one alternative, but it is about as bad in terms of trolling, and a slower server. Oh, the posts appear immediately, but the whole site lags otherwise. We might want to get together and chip in to make a new site, and not another social network nor anything as crappy as Black Planet. If you want spammed and pressured to hook up daily, that is the place to go. There is an old saying about prisons and the 3 F-words associated with prison - they either fuss,[mate], or fight, and that is what they do on that site.
Klaus666

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Feb 9, 2014
 

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Weak, flimsy, pathectic, evil n!@@er genes are the gift that just keeps on giving. lmWSao

“Proud White Woman for life!”

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Feb 10, 2014
 

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My Shoes Need Shined wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, aziya and some of the other black girls
( http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/TJ3H7L6DBBPRI... )
had that idea
(which failed, like all "black" enterprises).
Here's my philosophy:
As long as crybaby blacks continue to whine about getting "oppressed" by an "inferior" race on this forum,
....I'll keep reregistering and laughing in their faces about it.
I wasn't thinking a new Black site, but a new free speech, discussion site. I think Topix has gotten too strict on some things but not strict enough on others. It is like they are there to push an agenda. Attack BP or WP all you want, but don't criticize illegal immigrants, Jewish persons, abortion, nor LGBTs. And in my site idea, I'd have certain rules in place to try to curtail a bullying atmosphere, and try to use technology to help. For instance, why not give the OP options on what type of thread it will be, whether a debate thread, a discussion thread, etc? Maybe give options to disallow direct replies, quoting, and discussing other participants, and install a non-traceable block feature. And there could be a content blocking feature, but only on an individual basis. For instance, if someone is not into LGBT content, they can disable it for themselves, and that would actually reduce some of the trolling. Some are reactionary bigots, but if they had the option to not be exposed to whatever content, they could live in their private bubble and not bother others.

“Home is Where the Heart is”

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Feb 10, 2014
 

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Spotted Girl wrote:
I didn't create that other thread, but merely replied first. Only Topix can create "official" threads which contain story links in the lede. In the past, volunteer editors could do that, but they discontinued that program. So the first poster is only the creator of user threads, not the more formal threads. Otherwise it is "Roboblogger" or whatever the Topix topic starter robot is called. It crawls the newswires and adds stories here as threads.
I didn't know that..thanks for informing me of that
Spotted Girl wrote:
Actually, obesity can be a sign of poverty. The body is made to go into a conservation mode in times of famine. Then on top of it, the cheapest foods you can buy are the least nutritious. Sugar costs a whole lot less than fruits and vegetables, and corn syrup is even cheaper due to political reasons. We pay tariffs on sugar cane that is imported, but corn syrup is produced right here in the US, so no import taxes, no tariffs, and less transportation costs. And HFCS doesn't contain any higher levels of fructose than ordinary sugar. It has "high fructose" in the name because it has any at all. It was not created from "genetically engineered" corn, but through selective breeding
Interesting enough... the reason I said "Obesity rates among Africans are relatively low in some areas" is because the percentage can be lower in lesser "advance" areas..while some of the more developed areas have higher percentage of obesity.
While other parts of Africa..where the wealth has increased ..the obesity is skyrocketing...reasons given is a changed in lifestyle...instead of walking miles to the next village...people can afford cars...instead of an Arab housewife cleaning her own house...she can afford a personal housekeeper...instead of a young African maiden washing her clothes or cooking the old traditional way....she has modern equipment (that is common in the West) to make it physically less demanding..
Take South Africa for example..more than half the population are obese..

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Feb 10, 2014
 

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Spotted Girl wrote:
Let me explain the sun thing. See, vitamin D is made in the skin, and melanin blocks the sun, meaning that darker skin is capable of making less. White people need less sun since they have less melanin. There is more sun in northern Africa, Latin America, and other places closer to the equator. The angle is different and the days are longer. Plus with more tribal cultures and more outdoor labor, there is more exposure.
The publications were talking about dark-skinned Black people in both Africa and America. So same skin tone, but one group living where they are closer to the sun (more UV radiation) and where the sun has a longer day cycle. Plus there are cultural differences such as more tribes and poverty, thus everyone working outside more. The closer you live to the equator, the hotter it is. Southern Africa would be a little closer to America in climate, and if I am not mistaken, the skin tones tend to be lighter there compared to northern Africa. Only the 2 temperate regions have 4 seasons. The closer to the poles, there are only two seasons, and both are cold. The poles have sun for 24-hours during the 6-month "Summer." So if you move there, don't tell your kids that they have to come in when it gets dark during that part of the year - they won't come in.:-) I've never been around the equator, but I've heard they have only 2 seasons too - hot and wet.
Darker pigmentation will make less regardless of being in America or Africa because...People with darker shade will need more exposure to sunlight than lighter skinned people regardless of their geographical location.. in about the same way an older person's production of vitamin D needs the extra assistance.
And closer to the equator, tribal cultures, and outdoor labor is no guarantee for more favorable outcome...the expected benefits could be affected by other environmental factors such as air pollution.
Spotted Girl wrote:
Yes, diet also plays a role. It is only possible to overdose on vitamin D orally. The way it is made in the skin, there is no possible way to overdose that way. If you have too much, the skin cannot make more. And foods are not that rich in it, so good diet and reasonable exposure won't cause an overdose. So you can only overdose through supplements. In the US, vitamin D is relatively cheap, but the government has their recommendations too low, and they make no distinction between races or genders, and only one age difference, and both recommendations are too low. The standards are 200 IU/day for kids and 400 IU/day for adults. It is like doctors and government scientists are a bit scared of it. Now for bed-ridden African Americans, about 7,000 IU per day is what some doctors recommend.
I thought recent studies claimed vitamin D supplements weren't all that effective for high blood pressure and chronic diseases..?
I know it was once believed that lacking in vitamin D was the culprit...but the modern belief
(if I'm not mistake) in the medical world..is that vitamin D deficiency is a SIGN of already existing poor health (not the cause of it)...
Michele

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Feb 10, 2014
 

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My Shoes Need Shined wrote:
The original, "official" thread was deleted because hypersensitive crybaby blacks can't stand the truth about their frail freak-of-nature selves......
"Crybaby" is your favorite word.
Stag_R_Lee

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#12
Feb 10, 2014
 
Spotted Girl wrote:
I didn't create that other thread, but merely replied first. Only Topix can create "official" threads which contain story links in the lede. In the past, volunteer editors could do that, but they discontinued that program. So the first poster is only the creator of user threads, not the more formal threads. Otherwise it is "Roboblogger" or whatever the Topix topic starter robot is called. It crawls the newswires and adds stories here as threads.
Actually, obesity can be a sign of poverty. The body is made to go into a conservation mode in times of famine. Then on top of it, the cheapest foods you can buy are the least nutritious. Sugar costs a whole lot less than fruits and vegetables, and corn syrup is even cheaper due to political reasons. We pay tariffs on sugar cane that is imported, but corn syrup is produced right here in the US, so no import taxes, no tariffs, and less transportation costs. And HFCS doesn't contain any higher levels of fructose than ordinary sugar. It has "high fructose" in the name because it has any at all. It was not created from "genetically engineered" corn, but through selective breeding.
Let me explain the sun thing. See, vitamin D is made in the skin, and melanin blocks the sun, meaning that darker skin is capable of making less. White people need less sun since they have less melanin. There is more sun in northern Africa, Latin America, and other places closer to the equator. The angle is different and the days are longer. Plus with more tribal cultures and more outdoor labor, there is more exposure.
The publications were talking about dark-skinned Black people in both Africa and America. So same skin tone, but one group living where they are closer to the sun (more UV radiation) and where the sun has a longer day cycle. Plus there are cultural differences such as more tribes and poverty, thus everyone working outside more. The closer you live to the equator, the hotter it is. Southern Africa would be a little closer to America in climate, and if I am not mistaken, the skin tones tend to be lighter there compared to northern Africa. Only the 2 temperate regions have 4 seasons. The closer to the poles, there are only two seasons, and both are cold. The poles have sun for 24-hours during the 6-month "Summer." So if you move there, don't tell your kids that they have to come in when it gets dark during that part of the year - they won't come in.:-) I've never been around the equator, but I've heard they have only 2 seasons too - hot and wet.
Yes, diet also plays a role. It is only possible to overdose on vitamin D orally. The way it is made in the skin, there is no possible way to overdose that way. If you have too much, the skin cannot make more. And foods are not that rich in it, so good diet and reasonable exposure won't cause an overdose. So you can only overdose through supplements. In the US, vitamin D is relatively cheap, but the government has their recommendations too low, and they make no distinction between races or genders, and only one age difference, and both recommendations are too low. The standards are 200 IU/day for kids and 400 IU/day for adults. It is like doctors and government scientists are a bit scared of it. Now for bed-ridden African Americans, about 7,000 IU per day is what some doctors recommend.
Great idea. I'm thinking of a follow up post written by you. You mentioned an independent site, other than TOPIX.

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#14
Feb 10, 2014
 
IR BW wrote:
<quoted text> I didn't know that..thanks for informing me of that
<quoted text> Interesting enough... the reason I said "Obesity rates among Africans are relatively low in some areas" is because the percentage can be lower in lesser "advance" areas..while some of the more developed areas have higher percentage of obesity.
While other parts of Africa..where the wealth has increased ..the obesity is skyrocketing...reasons given is a changed in lifestyle...instead of walking miles to the next village...people can afford cars...instead of an Arab housewife cleaning her own house...she can afford a personal housekeeper...instead of a young African maiden washing her clothes or cooking the old traditional way....she has modern equipment (that is common in the West) to make it physically less demanding..
Take South Africa for example..more than half the population are obese..
More developed areas could mean more exercise and less sun exposure. Like you said, tasks are less demanding. Plus indoor cooking may also mean more use of grease. That is why one friend of mine switched to mostly baking or boiling meals rather than frying. If many Black women in the US would just do that, they could shed quite a few pounds without breaking a sweat. Increasing vitamin D in the US could also help reduce some weight in some people. So would exercise. And if nothing else, give up MSG and artificial sweeteners. For some people, those are triggers for various conditions like headache, high blood pressure, and obesity.

One guy, I think he might have been White, dieted and exercised and only lost a marginal amount of weight. He was about ready to give up, and his doctor asked him to make a food diary. He showed it to his doctor, and it was fairly healthy, except the doctor noticed two things. He ate Chinese food - generally very healthy, but may contain MSG, and he drank diet sodas which contained aspartame (NutraSweet). After removing the MSG and the NutraSweet, he began to lose quite a bit of weight and felt healthier.

Speaking of aspartame, while it is marketed to diabetics, it is not safe for them. Neuropathy is a symptom of diabetes, and can be a symptom of aspartame use. Why give someone with diabetes something that can increase the risk of conditions they already are at a risk for developing? Aspartame can break down into methanol and formaldehyde, and nobody in their right mind would dare to drink either (a desperate alcoholic might, but...). They can cause nerve damage and death.

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#15
Feb 10, 2014
 
Stag_R_Lee wrote:
<quoted text>
Great idea. I'm thinking of a follow up post written by you. You mentioned an independent site, other than TOPIX.
I don't remember what sites I looked at when I did my initial research on this. But you can easily use search engines and find many on this and related topics.

This site is not geared specifically to African Americans, but there are at least 84 hits in their search engine:

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

And a couple of random ones:

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/4/1126.fu...

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/n...

Or search yourself:

https://ixquick.com/do/search...

The above links are just on vitamin D.

And for the stroke trigger article associated with the last thread here:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/...

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#16
Feb 10, 2014
 
Masud_S_Hoghughi__ wrote:
the question then becomes - how can people deliberately trigger strokes in AAs?.........
That is just wrong, and often an unhealthy body leads to an unhealthy mind, and hence things society doesn't desire.

Too many give themselves strokes. Plenty know how to cook yummy food, but with all the grease and rich spices, with plenty of pasta, with KoolAid for drink and something sweet for dessert, it doesn't help the blood pressure, diabetes, heart, or arteries.

Then there are the bad habits. Smoking and drinking are at the top of the list. Smoking constricts the arteries and reduces the oxygen in the blood, and drinking can cause liver disease, worsen or trigger diabetes (thus contributing to heart disease).

Then like the article says, certain bacteria can worsen stroke risk. While White people might be harmed less by them, they have a risk too. So don't make yourself deliberately sick to give it to others, though I guess some would wish that on racists.

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#17
Feb 10, 2014
 
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
More developed areas could mean more exercise and less sun exposure. Like you said, tasks are less demanding. Plus indoor cooking may also mean more use of grease. That is why one friend of mine switched to mostly baking or boiling meals rather than frying. If many Black women in the US would just do that, they could shed quite a few pounds without breaking a sweat. Increasing vitamin D in the US could also help reduce some weight in some people. So would exercise. And if nothing else, give up MSG and artificial sweeteners. For some people, those are triggers for various conditions like headache, high blood pressure, and obesity.
One guy, I think he might have been White, dieted and exercised and only lost a marginal amount of weight. He was about ready to give up, and his doctor asked him to make a food diary. He showed it to his doctor, and it was fairly healthy, except the doctor noticed two things. He ate Chinese food - generally very healthy, but may contain MSG, and he drank diet sodas which contained aspartame (NutraSweet). After removing the MSG and the NutraSweet, he began to lose quite a bit of weight and felt healthier.
Speaking of aspartame, while it is marketed to diabetics, it is not safe for them. Neuropathy is a symptom of diabetes, and can be a symptom of aspartame use. Why give someone with diabetes something that can increase the risk of conditions they already are at a risk for developing? Aspartame can break down into methanol and formaldehyde, and nobody in their right mind would dare to drink either (a desperate alcoholic might, but...). They can cause nerve damage and death.
I meant LESS exercise at the beginning...

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#18
Feb 10, 2014
 
And skin cancer from sun exposure affects whites more than blacks.

Point is?

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IR BW wrote:
<quoted text>
Darker pigmentation will make less regardless of being in America or Africa because...People with darker shade will need more exposure to sunlight than lighter skinned people regardless of their geographical location.. in about the same way an older person's production of vitamin D needs the extra assistance.
And closer to the equator, tribal cultures, and outdoor labor is no guarantee for more favorable outcome...the expected benefits could be affected by other environmental factors such as air pollution.
<quoted text>
I thought recent studies claimed vitamin D supplements weren't all that effective for high blood pressure and chronic diseases..?
I know it was once believed that lacking in vitamin D was the culprit...but the modern belief
(if I'm not mistake) in the medical world..is that vitamin D deficiency is a SIGN of already existing poor health (not the cause of it)...
Again darker pigment in Africa means your body will make more than having darker pigment here. You can't seem to understand the sun is brighter closer to the equator and shines longer - making it just right if you are darker and too much if lighter. No matte how long you keep repeating yourself, it won't change what I'm saying. The level of UV rays is more at the equator, meaning MORE can penetrate the skin, and the sun is out for longer, allowing dark-skinned people more time to get more - and they get it longer in the year too. The amount of UV and length of exposure varies. That is partly why Africans in Africa get less heart disease than in the US (and that doesn't contradict anything said about diet and exercise).

In other terms, Black people were made to live in the tropics and at the equator (more UV and longest days and more sunny days), while Caucasians were made to live further away where there is less sun available (less direct sunlight due to the angle, of the Earth and shorter days). So an hour in Africa for a BP, would be like an hour in NYC for a White person (weaker dose in NYC plus a lot more pollution).

The Earth is not perfectly round, but more like a pear in shape, and it leans to one side a bit, and that is why the number of seasons vary.

African-Americans have partially adapted to less sunlight in that their parathyroid glands are a little different, making them less prone to osteoporosis than WP, even with lower vitamin D levels.

As for the studies, it is hard to say, as so many conflict. But the thing is, if you are of a darker race, you'd likely benefit more from supplementation. The research may be a non sequitar or red herrings too. Increasing vitamin D in people who have enough or sticking mainly to White subjects won't give valid results. All the major diseases have different causative factors, and they can vary with race, gender, and culture. If they have certain diseases for other reasons, then it won't help. But for African-Americans and all with deficiencies, the vitamin D thing may very well be a cause - thus explaining why traditional drugs might help them less, since deficiency is the cause, not the usual path to illness.

Vitamin D can be the cause of a number of things - obesity, high blood pressure, and contribute to diabetes and infections. Ever wonder so many people are sicker in the winter and why African Americans take more precautions in the winter? There is less sunlight in the winter. That means less vitamin D, and less UV damage to certain germs. But there are other factors too. People may get lazier in the winter, they get out less, they overeat during the winter holidays, and even alcohol may be involved.

And if it is lower from sickness, it is because you don't go out and don't eat as much. And it being lower can cascade and trigger other things.

One reason vitamin D is sometimes attacked is because sometimes the studies get money from the tanning industry (who want to downplay the risks of artificial UV exposure).

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#20
Feb 10, 2014
 
I see triplets wrote:
And skin cancer from sun exposure affects whites more than blacks.
Point is?
This thread was designed to help empower a specific group of people, not pass blame on anyone. At least others appreciate this thread. And BP still can get skin cancer as evidenced by a study this year, and when they do get it, they often get hit the hardest since doctors and patients don't expect it. So it gets ignored for a long time. It is like breast cancer in men. Men do get it, and again, they often get it harder when they do since ego and misinformation keeps them from the doctor.

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/613355/...
Stag_R_Lee

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#21
Feb 10, 2014
 
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't remember what sites I looked at when I did my initial research on this. But you can easily use search engines and find many on this and related topics.
This site is not geared specifically to African Americans, but there are at least 84 hits in their search engine:
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/
And a couple of random ones:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/4/1126.fu...
http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/n...
Or search yourself:
https://ixquick.com/do/search...
The above links are just on vitamin D.
And for the stroke trigger article associated with the last thread here:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/...
Thanks! Why do you call yourself, "Spotted Girl?" My earlier response needed to be more specific. You mentioned starting an independent site; something other than TOPIX ?

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Feb 10, 2014
 

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The main function of vitamin d is for healthy bones and muscle development vitamin d helps with absorption of calcium.
All this new information on vitamin d is young and speculative. it's still in clinical trials. They're not even sure in how much vitamin d is needed

Black ppl have the strongest bones from birth to old age.

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Feb 10, 2014
 

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"In black patients, lower levels of vitamin D may not signify deficiency to the same extent as in whites," said the study's lead investigator,

Vitamin D is widely used to treat patients with osteoporosis and/or low vitamin D levels based on a medically accepted normal range. This "normal" range is typically applied to all race groups, although it was established predominantly in whites.

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Feb 10, 2014
 

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We found that higher circulating levels of vitamin D in blacks were associated with more calcium in the artery walls," Freedman said.

This is the opposite effect of what is felt to occur in white patients and shows that the accepted "normal" range of vitamin D may be different between blacks and whites

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