Africa and Dravidians
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Elias

Australia

#1 Dec 24, 2012
On google if you type dravidian culture or dravidian genetics it appears more than half the threads, blogs or posts are from African Americans. While most Tamils (like myself) are probably flattered at all this interest it really doesn't make any sense to say our ancestors migrated from Africa.

1. Language - Dravidian language is unique, there is no African language past or present that has any connection to Dravidian. The work of Lahovary suggests the two languages with closest connections are also isolates, namely Basque and Ainu. Neither of those are African languages. The work of Mahadevan suggest Dravidian is the last remnent of the Elamite and Sumerian languages from the middle east. Thus by language Dravidian is very old and connected to the middle east and meditarannean region.

2. Genetics - here the African hypothesis must be completely thrown out. While markers suggest our maternal genes (M clade) are connected to Asia our paternal genes (M120)are from Europe/middle east. Based on sheer volume of genetic contribution there is virtually no direct contribution from Africa
https://sites.google.com/site/induscivilizati...

Take a look at the African content (orange) of Dravidians (Tamils) it's virtually zero.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5299/fetchob...

The so called M130 gene that is a marker from Africa is only found in the non-dravidian tribal groups who are isolated to extreme south India such as the Andaman islands.

3. Physical - Dravidians have straight black silky hair which they inherit from their maternal Asian side. Many have dark to light brown from the paternal genes. Their skulls are described as meditaranean to armenoid which according to conventional theories came with the M-20 genetic group from the Anatolian basin.

4. Religion - Hinduism is connected to Sumerians not Africans. Among quite common middle eastern traits include worship of the mother goddess and vegitarianism. I am not aware of any female worshipping vegitarian tribes in Africa?

5. Dress - Dravidian clothing is most closely connected with Sumerian - long cone shaped hats and emroided tunics. Also similar to Pharoahs crowns.

6. Food - Dravidians cultivated grains and engaged in agriculture including rice cultivation.

7. Horse and wheel - Dravidans mastered horses and made use of carts for transportation and warfare.

8. Megaliths - Used megaliths to bury their dead and for astronomical charting of season cycles for planting crops.

9. Iron - mastered iron work and bronze from a very early era prior to even Europe.

10. Engineering - Dravidians mastered the development of the earliest use of sluice gates in constructing dams for irrigating and sewage systems. They had a unique temple architecture that uses step pyramid design closest to that used in Sumeria and ancient Egypt. Finalyl they developed cities which are recorded from pre-christian times.

11. origin myth - Dravidians have a origin myth they come from a land submerged uner the seas. Their ancestors were seafarers.

The evidence shows the Dravidian genetic makeup and culture is closest to that of the Sumerians, there is (or was) no culture in Adrica except Egypt that is comparable. The evidence is just simply far too overwhelming against an African origin.

“HOBOY”

Level 2

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#2 Dec 24, 2012
You came to the wrong place to discuss this. Soon you are going to get wikipedia entries and random drawings people scanned and uploaded to tinypic.
Elias

Australia

#3 Dec 24, 2012
What Are you Wearing wrote:
You came to the wrong place to discuss this. Soon you are going to get wikipedia entries and random drawings people scanned and uploaded to tinypic.
That's ok. It's good to at least educate folks on this forum that you shouldn;t take things for granted just because you read it on the internet. it's important to read widely.
LION

Charlotte, NC

#4 Dec 24, 2012
BLACKS

need to support black owned banks
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#5 Dec 24, 2012
the Dravidian / Dalit origin

http://www.google.com/url...

Sources:

Riddles of 3 Oceans', Alexander Kondratov

`Anabasis Alexandri, Book VIII (Indica)' by Arrian, tr. E. Iliff Robson (1933)

`Herodotus, The History', trans. George Rawlinson, Dutton & Co., N.York, 1862

`Itinerarium Alexandri,' Anonymous, 4th century AD,`Alexander's Itinerary, An English Translation' by Iolo Davies, The Ancient History Bulletin 12.1-2 (1998) 29-54

`The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea: Travel and Trade in the Indian Ocean by a Merchant of the First Century,' W.H. Schoff (tr. & ed.), London, Bombay & Calcutta 1912.

`History of India', Mountstuart Elphinstone, J.Murray, Albemarle Street, London 1841, reprinted 1988, Atlantic Publishers New Delhi 1988.

`Geography,', Strabo, translated by H. L. Jones (ed.), http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/ .
Barros Serrano

Fairmont, WV

#6 Dec 24, 2012
trollslayer wrote:
the Dravidian / Dalit origin
http://www.google.com/url...
Sources:
Riddles of 3 Oceans', Alexander Kondratov
`Anabasis Alexandri, Book VIII (Indica)' by Arrian, tr. E. Iliff Robson (1933)
`Herodotus, The History', trans. George Rawlinson, Dutton & Co., N.York, 1862
`Itinerarium Alexandri,' Anonymous, 4th century AD,`Alexander's Itinerary, An English Translation' by Iolo Davies, The Ancient History Bulletin 12.1-2 (1998) 29-54
`The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea: Travel and Trade in the Indian Ocean by a Merchant of the First Century,' W.H. Schoff (tr. & ed.), London, Bombay & Calcutta 1912.
`History of India', Mountstuart Elphinstone, J.Murray, Albemarle Street, London 1841, reprinted 1988, Atlantic Publishers New Delhi 1988.
`Geography,', Strabo, translated by H. L. Jones (ed.), http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/ .
Wrong again, racist Afronazi misfit:

Dravidians have no connection to Africa, and the speculations of Herodotus or Strabo mean little.

Genetics: Dravidians are INDIANS (100% Eurasian)
Language: not related to anything African

The first poster is correct, the Dravidians are related to Elamites and Sumerians. The Aratta civilization, being currently excavated at Jiroft, included Elamite writing and therefore likely spoke a Dravidian language. This civilization was older than those of Sumer or Egypt.

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

United States

#7 Dec 24, 2012
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong again, racist Afronazi misfit:
Dravidians have no connection to Africa
Well than I guess they are not Sapiens since Sapiens are from Africa.
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#8 Dec 24, 2012
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong again, racist Afronazi misfit:
Dravidians have no connection to Africa, and the speculations of Herodotus or Strabo mean little.
Genetics: Dravidians are INDIANS (100% Eurasian)
Language: not related to anything African
The first poster is correct, the Dravidians are related to Elamites and Sumerians. The Aratta civilization, being currently excavated at Jiroft, included Elamite writing and therefore likely spoke a Dravidian language. This civilization was older than those of Sumer or Egypt.
LOL...u silly troll bastard I will take the so-called quote speculations of Herodotus or Strabo un-quote over ur UN-educated, NON-substantiated rantings, any day.
Barros Serrano

Fairmont, WV

#9 Dec 24, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
Well than I guess they are not Sapiens since Sapiens are from Africa.
LOL!!! The same old Afronazi canard... when you loose an argument (as always happens), resort to “all humans were originally from Africa!) LOL!!!

Well, we're not talking about OOA, we're talking about the Eurasians who evolved into new EURASIAN types upon leaving Africa.

Such as the Dravidians, Y-.type L, descended from K, a Eurasian type.

You blithering racist culture-vulture criminal fool.

“me! chee hoo! LOL!”

Level 6

Since: Oct 09

New Zealand

#10 Dec 24, 2012
Could b lol

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

United States

#11 Dec 24, 2012
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!!! The same old Afronazi canard... when you loose an argument (as always happens), resort to “all humans were originally from Africa!) LOL!!!
Well, we're not talking about OOA, we're talking about the Eurasians who evolved into new EURASIAN types upon leaving Africa.
Such as the Dravidians, Y-.type L, descended from K, a Eurasian type.
You blithering racist culture-vulture criminal fool.
The new Eurasians are still related to the old Eurasians. MtDNA does NOT die because genetics change. If that were the case, geneticists wouldn't be able to trace lineages due to genetic changes.
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#12 Dec 24, 2012
First Indians came from Africa
DH News Service NEW DELHI, Nov 18

FACT FILE

*The exciting journey has been chronicled by a team of genetic
investigators
* All modern humans descended form one man in Africa 60,000 years ago
* The new findings suggest people had entered India from the western
side

The first men to set foot on India were a group of Africans who took
an arduous journey from the dark continent along the coasts of central
Asia and Middle East to arrive in India around 50,000 years
ago. Those men and women are the forefathers of Dravidians – considered as the oldest Indians.
-Paul Kekai Manansala

__________

-Paul Kekai Manansala
http://www.google.com/url...

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

United States

#13 Dec 24, 2012
Each new female line is thus defined by the old mutations as well as the new ones. As a result, by knowing all the different combinations of mutations in living females around the world, we can logically reconstruct a family tree right back to our first mother.
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/eve...
Barros Serrano

Fairmont, WV

#14 Dec 24, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
The new Eurasians are still related to the old Eurasians. MtDNA does NOT die because genetics change. If that were the case, geneticists wouldn't be able to trace lineages due to genetic changes.
That was pure gibberish.

The Dravidians are Eurasians. Not Africans.

Their Y-type is mostly L, a Eurasian type.

They are not African, but Eurasian.

Play word games and twist things around you like, but it won't change reality or facts.

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

United States

#15 Dec 24, 2012
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL...u silly troll bastard I will take the so-called quote speculations of Herodotus or Strabo un-quote over ur UN-educated, NON-substantiated rantings, any day.
Barros is NOT going to win this debate. He might as well STOP. There is no way Dravidians have no connections with Africans unless they are non-Sapiens.

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

United States

#16 Dec 24, 2012
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
That was pure gibberish.
The Dravidians are Eurasians. Not Africans.
Their Y-type is mostly L, a Eurasian type.
They are not African, but Eurasian.
Play word games and twist things around you like, but it won't change reality or facts.
There exist a linage outside of Africa that is BOTH African & non-African while the rest may be strictly non-African. However to claim this is the case for all non-African lineages is incorrect!

Each new female line is thus defined by the old mutations as well as the new ones. As a result, by knowing all the different combinations of mutations in living females around the world, we can logically reconstruct a family tree right back to our first mother.
Barros Serrano

Fairmont, WV

#17 Dec 24, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
Barros is NOT going to win this debate. He might as well STOP. There is no way Dravidians have no connections with Africans unless they are non-Sapiens.
You have no debate. Dravidian have NO African DNA!!!

LOL at you Afronazi lying racist fools... pretending you can construe DNA however you like or simply ignore it!

DRAVIDIANS: 100% Eurasian.

MAGHREB: predominantly Eurasian for 30k years.

OLMECS: proven to be from Soconusco.

HEBREWS: J2 Mideasterners, not black

CHINESE: 100% Eurasian from the beginning

FROSTY THE SNOWMAN: originally white

Suck a turd, Afronazis.

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

United States

#18 Dec 24, 2012
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no debate. Dravidian have NO African DNA!!!
LOL at you Afronazi lying racist fools... pretending you can construe DNA however you like or simply ignore it!
DRAVIDIANS: 100% Eurasian.
MAGHREB: predominantly Eurasian for 30k years.
OLMECS: proven to be from Soconusco.
HEBREWS: J2 Mideasterners, not black
CHINESE: 100% Eurasian from the beginning
FROSTY THE SNOWMAN: originally white
Suck a turd, Afronazis.
Now you claim the oldest lineages in India are Eurasians, lol So I guess OOA are NOT the Indigenous PPL of India anymore.
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#19 Dec 24, 2012
" The issue of the linkage between Africans and Dravidians is not something that can be dismissed as something that has no substance in it at all. Anyone who sees the Ethiopians and Tamils could see a remarkable physical resemblance and during my stay in London I mistook some Ethiopians in fact for Tamils. Perhaps some Dravidian tribes at least, are people with intimate relationship with some Africans, a notion that deserves to be investigated further. Such studies were promoted at one time by the political leaders in Senegal and some books published by the anthropologist K.P. Aravanan, now the Vice Chancellor of a university in Tamil Nadu owe to this. One of them is the collection of articles, some quite rare indeed and edited by K.P. Aravanan, and published under the title “Dravidians and Africans”. The copy I have was published in 1997 and Tamil Koottam holds the copyright.



The book also contains many photographs that reveal the presence Muruka worship among the East Africans where the Vel, the Spear and the Mayil, the peacock are unmistakably similar to those in Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka.



I shall select only some relevant parts from some of these essays so that they enjoy a wider publicity and the issue of the African connections, among others, of the Dravidians folks becomes a lively again. This may also serve as an antidote to the very popular and highly publicized Aryan Racialism of many scholars both European and Indian."



-Dr K.Loganathan Jan 2003, University Sains Malaysia, Malaysia.
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#20 Dec 24, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
Barros is NOT going to win this debate. He might as well STOP. There is no way Dravidians have no connections with Africans unless they are non-Sapiens.
Well anytime a troll starts name-calling, it means he lost.
It means he has no outside data to back up his claims....hence the name-calling.

baro-meltdown will never win anything that depends on reading books, researching and basic education.

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