The Ancient Egyptians were black! Fin...
trollslayer

Lansing, IL

#3185 Jul 16, 2013
No African call his continent "sub" anything. It inplies "2 Africa's" which is a lie.
Almoravid

Rotterdam, Netherlands

#3186 Jul 17, 2013
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>Modern Berbers were related to the ancient Berbers just like ancient Egptians are related to modern Egyptians!
I know you're not the brightest...

WHAT BONES CAN TELL: BIOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVES ON THE HUNTER-GATHERERS OF THE MAGHREB:

Quote:
The extremely large skeletal samples that come from sites such as Taforalt (Fig. 8.13) and Afalou constitute an invaluable resource for understanding the makers of Iberomaurusian artifacts, and their number is unparalleled elsewhere in Africa for the early Holocene.

*Frequently termed Mechta-Afalou or Mechtoid, these were a skeletally robust people and definitely African in origin, though attempts, such as those of Ferembach (1985), to establish similarities with much older and rarer Aterian skeletal remains are tenuous given the immense temporal separation between the two (Close and Wendorf 1990). At the opposite end of the chronological spectrum,[b]dental morphology does suggest connections with later Africans, including those responsible for the Capsian Industry (Irish 2000) and early mid-Holocene human remains from the western half of the Sahara (Dutour 1989), something that points to the Maghreb as one of the regions from which people recolonised the desert (MacDonald 1998).
Turning to what can be learned about cultural practices and disease, the individuals from Taforalt, the largest sample by far, display little evidence of trauma, though they do suggest a high incidence of infant mortality, with evidence for dental caries, arthritis, and rheumatism among other degenerative conditions. Interestingly, Taforalt also provides one of the oldest known instances of the practice of trepanation, the surgical removal of a portion of the cranium; the patient evidently survived for some time, as there are signs of bone regrowth in the affected area.

Another form of body modification was much more widespread and, indeed, a distinctive feature of the Iberomaurusian skeletal sample as a whole. This was the practice of removing two or more of the upper incisors, usually around puberty and from both males and females, something that probably served as both a rite of passage and an ethnic marker (Close and Wendorf 1990), just as it does in parts of sub-Saharan Africa today (e.g., van Reenen 1987).[/b] Cranial and postcranial malformations are also apparent and may indicate pronounced endogamy at a much more localised level (Hadjouis 2002), perhaps supported by the degree of variability between different site samples noted by Irish (2000).
--Lawrence Barham
The First Africans: African Archaeology from the Earliest Toolmakers to Most Recent Foragers (Cambridge World Archaeology)
Almoravid

Rotterdam, Netherlands

#3187 Jul 17, 2013
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>Modern Berbers were related to the ancient Berbers just like ancient Egptians are related to modern Egyptians!
Th intrusion of the Spanish Moriscos is a historical fact, and they make up a small portion of the entire intrusion of recent foreigners.

Nowhere did I write modern Tamazight aren't related to ancient Tamazight. I showed that not everyone in the Maghreb is originally from there. As the population has been shifted in demographics and gene pool, differs from the ancient.


Quote:
Nevertheless, it was only during the Neolithic transition (around 6000 years ago in the Saharan areas and 5000 years ago in the Maghreb) that North Africa was incontestably marked by various cultural events.
[...]
Then, Berbers experienced a long and complicated history with many invasions, conquests and migrations by Phoenicians, Romans, Vandals and Byzantines (Brett & Fentress 1996).
[...]
Over the course of time, the various populations that migrated to North Africa have probably left a footprint in the gene pool of modern Berbers.
--C. Coudray et al.
"The Complex and Diversified Mitochondrial Gene Pool of Berber Populations"

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af246/jja...

Quote:
The dates of admixture (assuming 30 years per generation)42 are reported in Table 1. Notably, in most of the Semitic, Cushitic, and Omotic populations, the
admixture of African and non-African ancestry components dates to 2.5–3 kya, whereas in North Africa, the admixture dates are ~2 ky more recent, clustering around
1 kya, consistent with previous reports.
--Pagani et al 2012

Quote:
Craniometric data from seven human groups (Tables 3, 4) were subjected to principal components analysis, which allies the early Holocene population at Gobero (Gob-e) with mid-Holocene “Mechtoids” from Mali and Mauritania [18],[26],[27] and with Late Pleistocene Iberomaurusians and early Holocene Capsians from across the Maghreb (see cluster in Figure 6). The striking similarity between these seven human populations confirms previous suggestions regarding their affinity [18] and is particularly significant given their temporal range (Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene) and trans-Saharan geographic distribution (across the Maghreb to the southern Sahara).
[...]
Trans-Saharan craniometry. Principal components analysis of craniometric variables closely allies the early Holocene occupants at Gobero, who were buried with Kiffian material culture, with Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene humans from the Maghreb and southern Sahara referred to as Iberomaurusians, Capsians and “Mechtoids.”[/b] Outliers to this cluster of populations include an older Aterian sample and the mid-Holocene occupants at Gobero associated with Tenerean material culture.
Craniometric data from seven human groups (Tables 3, 4) were subjected to principal components analysis, which allies the early Holocene population at Gobero (Gob-e) with mid-Holocene “Mechtoids” from Mali and Mauritania [18],[26],[27] and with Late Pleistocene Iberomaurusians and early Holocene Capsians from across the Maghreb

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.ac...

Figure 6. Principal components analysis of craniofacial dimensions among Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene populations from the Maghreb and southern Sahara.

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.ac...

Table 3. Nine human populations sampled for craniometric analysis ranging in age from the Late Pleistocene (ca. 80,000 BP, Aterian) to the mid-Holocene (ca. 4000 BP) and in geographic distribution across the Maghreb to the southern Sahara [18],[19],[26],[27],[54].
doi:10.1371/journal.pone.00029 95.t003

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.ac...
Almoravid

Rotterdam, Netherlands

#3188 Jul 17, 2013
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>Modern Berbers were related to the ancient Berbers just like ancient Egptians are related to modern Egyptians!
Th intrusion of the Spanish Moriscos is a historical fact, and they make up a small portion of the entire intrusion of recent foreigners.

Nowhere did I write modern Tamazight aren't related to ancient Tamazight. I showed that not everyone in the Maghreb is originally from there. As the population has been shifted in demographics and gene pool, differs from the ancient.


Quote:
Nevertheless, it was only during the Neolithic transition (around 6000 years ago in the Saharan areas and 5000 years ago in the Maghreb) that North Africa was incontestably marked by various cultural events.
[...]
Then, Berbers experienced a long and complicated history with many invasions, conquests and migrations by Phoenicians, Romans, Vandals and Byzantines (Brett & Fentress 1996).
[...]
Over the course of time, the various populations that migrated to North Africa have probably left a footprint in the gene pool of modern Berbers.
--C. Coudray et al.
"The Complex and Diversified Mitochondrial Gene Pool of Berber Populations"

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af246/jja...

Quote:
The dates of admixture (assuming 30 years per generation)42 are reported in Table 1. Notably, in most of the Semitic, Cushitic, and Omotic populations, the
admixture of African and non-African ancestry components dates to 2.5–3 kya, whereas in North Africa, the admixture dates are ~2 ky more recent, clustering around
1 kya, consistent with previous reports.
--Pagani et al 2012

Quote:
Craniometric data from seven human groups (Tables 3, 4) were subjected to principal components analysis, which allies the early Holocene population at Gobero (Gob-e) with mid-Holocene “Mechtoids” from Mali and Mauritania [18],[26],[27] and with Late Pleistocene Iberomaurusians and early Holocene Capsians from across the Maghreb (see cluster in Figure 6). The striking similarity between these seven human populations confirms previous suggestions regarding their affinity [18] and is particularly significant given their temporal range (Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene) and trans-Saharan geographic distribution (across the Maghreb to the southern Sahara).
[...]
Trans-Saharan craniometry. Principal components analysis of craniometric variables closely allies the early Holocene occupants at Gobero, who were buried with Kiffian material culture, with Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene humans from the Maghreb and southern Sahara referred to as Iberomaurusians, Capsians and “Mechtoids.”[/b] Outliers to this cluster of populations include an older Aterian sample and the mid-Holocene occupants at Gobero associated with Tenerean material culture.
Craniometric data from seven human groups (Tables 3, 4) were subjected to principal components analysis, which allies the early Holocene population at Gobero (Gob-e) with mid-Holocene “Mechtoids” from Mali and Mauritania [18],[26],[27] and with Late Pleistocene Iberomaurusians and early Holocene Capsians from across the Maghreb

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.ac...

Figure 6. Principal components analysis of craniofacial dimensions among Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene populations from the Maghreb and southern Sahara.

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.ac...

Table 3. Nine human populations sampled for craniometric analysis ranging in age from the Late Pleistocene (ca. 80,000 BP, Aterian) to the mid-Holocene (ca. 4000 BP) and in geographic distribution across the Maghreb to the southern Sahara [18],[19],[26],[27],[54].
doi:10.1371/journal.pone.00029 95.t003

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.ac...
African AE

Johannesburg, South Africa

#3190 Jul 17, 2013
So 25000 years ago according to forensic experts, North Africans look exactly the same as modern Europeans! Thats why I keep telling people on this site LOOK AT UPDATED LINKS after neanderthals were discovered to be related to modern humans!
trollslayer

Hammond, IN

#3191 Jul 17, 2013
Quote:
The dates of admixture (assuming 30 years per generation)42 are reported in Table 1. Notably, in most of the Semitic, Cushitic, and Omotic populations, the
admixture of African and non-African ancestry components dates to 2.5–3 kya, whereas in North Africa, the admixture dates are ~2 ky more recent, clustering around
1 kya, consistent with previous reports.
--Pagani et al 2012
__________

Looks pretty up to date, too me.
African AE

Cape Town, South Africa

#3198 Jul 17, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
Quote:
The dates of admixture (assuming 30 years per generation)42 are reported in Table 1. Notably, in most of the Semitic, Cushitic, and Omotic populations, the
admixture of African and non-African ancestry components dates to 2.5–3 kya, whereas in North Africa, the admixture dates are ~2 ky more recent, clustering around
1 kya, consistent with previous reports.
--Pagani et al 2012
__________
Looks pretty up to date, too me.
Photo of the reconstruction of a North African 35.000 year old Mechta Afalou man:
www.sciencephoto.com/media/481366/view
African AE

Cape Town, South Africa

#3199 Jul 17, 2013
Almoravid wrote:
<quoted text>
Th intrusion of the Spanish Moriscos is a historical fact, and they make up a small portion of the entire intrusion of recent foreigners.
Nowhere did I write modern Tamazight aren't related to ancient Tamazight. I showed that not everyone in the Maghreb is originally from there. As the population has been shifted in demographics and gene pool, differs from the ancient.
Quote:
Nevertheless, it was only during the Neolithic transition (around 6000 years ago in the Saharan areas and 5000 years ago in the Maghreb) that North Africa was incontestably marked by various cultural events.
[...]
Then, Berbers experienced a long and complicated history with many invasions, conquests and migrations by Phoenicians, Romans, Vandals and Byzantines (Brett & Fentress 1996).
[...]
Over the course of time, the various populations that migrated to North Africa have probably left a footprint in the gene pool of modern Berbers.
--C. Coudray et al.
"The Complex and Diversified Mitochondrial Gene Pool of Berber Populations"
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af246/jja...
Quote:
The dates of admixture (assuming 30 years per generation)42 are reported in Table 1. Notably, in most of the Semitic, Cushitic, and Omotic populations, the
admixture of African and non-African ancestry components dates to 2.5–3 kya, whereas in North Africa, the admixture dates are ~2 ky more recent, clustering around
1 kya, consistent with previous reports.
--Pagani et al 2012
Quote:
Craniometric data from seven human groups (Tables 3, 4) were subjected to principal components analysis, which allies the early Holocene population at Gobero (Gob-e) with mid-Holocene “Mechtoids” from Mali and Mauritania [18],[26],[27] and with Late Pleistocene Iberomaurusians and early Holocene Capsians from across the Maghreb (see cluster in Figure 6). The striking similarity between these seven human populations confirms previous suggestions regarding their affinity [18] and is particularly significant given their temporal range (Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene) and trans-Saharan geographic distribution (across the Maghreb to the southern Sahara).
[...]
Trans-Saharan craniometry. Principal components analysis of craniometric variables closely allies the early Holocene occupants at Gobero, who were buried with Kiffian material culture, with Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene humans from the Maghreb and southern Sahara referred to as Iberomaurusians, Capsians and “Mechtoids.”[/b] Outliers to this cluster of populations include an older Aterian sample and the mid-Holocene occupants at Gobero associated with Tenerean material culture.
Craniometric data from seven human groups (Tables 3, 4) were subjected to principal components analysis, which allies the early Holocene population at Gobero (Gob-e) with mid-Holocene “Mechtoids” from Mali and Mauritania [18],[26],[27] and with Late Pleistocene Iberomaurusians and early Holocene Capsians from across the Maghreb
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.ac...
Figure 6. Principal components analysis of craniofacial dimensions among Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene populations from the Maghreb and southern Sahara.
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.ac...
Table 3. Nine human populations sampled for craniometric analysis ranging in age from the Late Pleistocene (ca. 80,000 BP, Aterian) to the mid-Holocene (ca. 4000 BP) and in geographic distribution across the Maghreb to the southern Sahara [18],[19],[26],[27],[54].
doi:10.1371/journal.pone.00029 95.t003
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.ac...
Reconstruction of an Afalou man 35000 years old:
www.sciencephoto.com/media/481366/view
Modern Algerians look just like him.
Almoravid

Netherlands

#3200 Jul 17, 2013
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>Reconstruction of an Afalou man 35000 years old:
www.sciencephoto.com/media/481366/view
Modern Algerians look just like him.
Your instruction is based on speculation. And imagination.

I have posted sources which show the overall crania and postcrania.

They clustered with other African populations from the South.
Boondeeboojoe

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#3201 Jul 17, 2013
Am surprise Matilda, barros and colored boy's favorite blogger. acknowledges SSA presence in natufian:

" The DNA results from Taforalt keep making me think. Was there a pre Neolithic expansion from Turkey that hit north Africa about 12k ago? I know that the Capsian is generally regarded as being a local development, but the Taforalt remains show a lot of mt DNA that just doesn’t have the same kind of time depth as U and M1. This is normally regarded as arriving in the neolithic, but Taforalt is about 5k to early for that.

There was some kind of expansion from Anatolia about 13,500 years ago. The Turkish Belbasi culture arrived in Franchthi cave about then with lentils, bitter vetch and pistachios… a good chance they were the earliest farming expansion (pre cereculture). I suppose one way to see if these were farmed would be large scale pollen studies. Did all these polllens suddenly arrive at once? If they did, it’s pretty unlikely they weren’tbeing farmed. A pre Neolithic expansion from Turkey would explain why the Natufians lost their sub Saharan affinities before the neolithic began, the traits diluted by a incoming wave of Turkish bean farmers about 4.5 K prior to the neolithic.

Another thing that’s got my attention is that there seems to have been some kind of population movement from North Africa into Iberia about 20k ago, shown by one L hg , along with U6 and M1. This would been that the microlithic stone tools in Iberia did have a north African cultural parent- meaning Ibero Mauraussian is correct, it was a shared technology.. Although the Y chr m78 doesn’t appear to have made it across with the mt DNA. Possibly some R1 did though, as this seems to have made it down into Cameroon and was probably dominant in North West Africa during the Holocene. Although you’d really have to dissect the Iberian Y chromosomes in detail to spot an ancient North African contribution. It might make sense of why Celtic languages appear to have had a grammar structure very similar to Afro Asiatic. If ancient North Africans were A speakers it could have been brought into Iberia along with the microliths and DNA about 20k ago at the LGM. This was the refuge area from which the Western coast of Europe was re-colonised when the ice age ended, and it could have taken the AA language with it, to be later overlaid with Indo-European words from incoming neolithic farmers. It might also explain why some of the very old Iberian crania show a slight affinity to sub Saharan Africans too.

One comment on my blog did make a good point about cattle and the neolithic. If you want to plant a big field of crops you really don’t want to do it by hand. A plough drawn by an ox is much easier on the back. The Neolithic expansion seems to coincide with the domestication of cattle, and I wonder if this extra muscle made growing cereals suddenly more efficient, leading to the rapid expansion.

Read Full Post | Make a Comment ( None so far"
Almoravid

Netherlands

#3202 Jul 17, 2013
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>Photo of the reconstruction of a North African 35.000 year old Mechta Afalou man:
www.sciencephoto.com/media/481366/view
Pronunciation:\&#712;a-f &#601;-&#716;lü-\
Function: noun
Etymology: fr. Afalou bou Rummel, near Bougie, Algeria, where remains were found
: one of an Upper Paleolithic people of northern Africa closely related to Cro-Magnon man but having a broader nose, a sloping forehead, and heavy brow ridges

http://i.word.com/idictionary/afalou%20man
African AE

Cape Town, South Africa

#3204 Jul 17, 2013
Almoravid wrote:
<quoted text>
Your instruction is based on speculation. And imagination.
I have posted sources which show the overall crania and postcrania.
They clustered with other African populations from the South.
Nope it wasnt based on speculation. Modern scientists did the correct recreation! Thats why I keep going on about dated studies. Not too long ago scientists did not know neanderthals bred with modern humans and any hybrid skull they labelled as African!
trollslayer

Midlothian, IL

#3205 Jul 18, 2013
Almoravid wrote:
<quoted text>
Your instruction is based on speculation. And imagination.
I have posted sources which show the overall crania and postcrania.
They clustered with other African populations from the South.
bump
Who Dat

Sugar Land, TX

#3206 Jul 18, 2013
Dude, how much you and your other partner in crime getting paid to post bullshit day and night? Give it a break will ya...!
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>Nope it wasnt based on speculation. Modern scientists did the correct recreation! Thats why I keep going on about dated studies. Not too long ago scientists did not know neanderthals bred with modern humans and any hybrid skull they labelled as African!
African AE

Cape Town, South Africa

#3207 Jul 18, 2013
Who Dat wrote:
Dude, how much you and your other partner in crime getting paid to post bullshit day and night? Give it a break will ya...!<quoted text>
Oh did I upset you with the truth??? Its not the first 35000 year old North African Caucasoid recreated by Forensic Experts!

Sinajuavi
Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#3209 Jul 18, 2013
The moriscos would have not looked out of place in the Maghreb, since the Maghrebians were, like them, a Mediterranean type of people.

Evidence confirms:

1. Eurasians were in the Maghreb 30,000 years ago. No non-Eurasian remains are found from that time.
2. ancient Phoenicians, Greeks, Egyptians and Romans depicted the people of the Maghreb as Eurasian types.
3. The DNA of the Maghreb throughout the 30,000 years is entirely or predominantly Eurasian.
4. The Moors, from the Maghreb, in Iberia were depicted by themselves and by Iberians as Eurasian types.
5. Guanches isolated for 6000 years on the Canaries had Maghrebian DNA and were of Eurasian type, many of them blonde.
6. Afronazis fancy-dance and prevaricate, but cannot address these facts which punk & debunk their racist cultish culture-vulture nonesense.

And, Afronazi liars, where is that DNA evidence for the predynastic Lower Egyptian population?

LOL!!!
Ramesses

United States

#3210 Jul 18, 2013
There's no such thing as a Eurasian indigenous to Africa.

There was absolutely no Eurasian DNA in North Africa 30,000 years ago.

Why do these Eurocentric idiots insist on claiming indigenous Africans. Be happy with your ancestors the sub-human Neanderthal.
Ramesses

United States

#3211 Jul 18, 2013
There're absolutely no sources to support Eurasian in Maghreb for 30,000 years.
African AE

Johannesburg, South Africa

#3212 Jul 18, 2013
Ramesses wrote:
There're absolutely no sources to support Eurasian in Maghreb for 30,000 years.
Cry now:
www.sciencephoto.com/media/481366/view
Skull of ancient North African RECREATED BY FORENSIC EXPERTS!

Sinajuavi
Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#3214 Jul 18, 2013
Ramesses wrote:
There's no such thing as a Eurasian indigenous to Africa.
There was absolutely no Eurasian DNA in North Africa 30,000 years ago.
Why do these Eurocentric idiots insist on claiming indigenous Africans. Be happy with your ancestors the sub-human Neanderthal.
Wrong. You are unaware of the scientific literature on the topic, obviously.

It is well-known that eurasian remains were found in the Maghreb dating 30,000 years ago and with DNA consistent with a Mideastern Eurasian origin.

Morphologically they were nearly identical to Cro-Magnon, which also suggests a Mideastern origin.

If you're AA, you're also part neandertalensis, not to mention heidelbergensis from W-Central Africa.

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