****Afrocentrism is not meant for ,,,...

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

United States

#151 Feb 23, 2013
Truthism wrote:
<quoted text>
I know you, personally, were not implying or saying that. What I'm saying is we can also be objective and point out things which show an inconsistency of logic if one were to try and connect some Chinese dynasty to the Olmecs... even though I know Native Americans of all types originally came from Asia and are, of course, genetically related more to Chinese than to West Africans, Europeans, etc.
This is being objective, without bias blinding me.
So if the Chinese cannot even lay claim to Olmecs, even though they shared much more similar genetic ties to them, how the heck could West African descent people dare to try and claim Olmecs as "black" (West African) in origin?
This is the point I'm making here.
Barros is correct in pointing out many reasons why it's ludicrous to think West Africans were Olmecs, or even did trade with Olmecs in ancient times.
The logic is too overwhelming, but those with emotional agendas will gloss over such logical points and keep living in denial of them.
It'll never end. This is why I say we need more than strong evidence when talking to the 'centrics of all types; we need PSYCHOLOGISTS as well! This is severe emotional denial on many levels concerning history. It's to boost their downtrodden pride. That needs counseling, not attempted theft of someone elses historical culture!
I fight Eurocentric nutjobs too, when they think they can try and steal / claim ancient Native American cultures, civilizations, technology, etc. And include those clueless little racists claiming "aliens" from outer space gave the Native American Maya or Olmec "advanced technology" to build pyramids, or the stone structures found in the mountains where the Inca built them, etc.
It seems many racists and insecure nutjobs want to twist history for their own agenda these days. Not going to happen around me without a fight!
BTW I NEVER said The Chinese could NOT lay claim tho most PPL would NOT see Olmecs as Chinese. Even you've stated in another thread they looked like some West Africans but some of them also resembled Polynesians. Someone else made similar claims about them resembling Polynesians as well.

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

United States

#152 Feb 24, 2013
The African origin of the Olmec was based on the research of Leo Wiener.
http://www.whoislog.info/profile/leo-wiener.h...

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

United States

#153 Feb 24, 2013
A New York times article about Africans in America!!!
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf...
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#154 Feb 24, 2013
Redefined wrote:
The African origin of the Olmec was based on the research of Leo Wiener.
http://www.whoislog.info/profile/leo-wiener.h...
" Some researchers say that the Mesoamerican writing systems are related to African scripts. In the early 19th century, Constantine Samuel Rafinesque proposed that the Mayan inscriptions were probably related to the Libyco-Berber writing of Africa"
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#155 Feb 24, 2013
Redefined wrote:
A New York times article about Africans in America!!!
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf...
Obviously there's enuff info. out here to substantiate a African presence in the Americas. Just the fact that Africans were the 1st to populate the earth should be enuff evidence...in and of itself.

Oh darn, I forgot, everybody was strangely turned into "eurasians" the minute they left Africa.....lol.
African AE

Johannesburg, South Africa

#156 Feb 24, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously there's enuff info. out here to substantiate a African presence in the Americas. Just the fact that Africans were the 1st to populate the earth should be enuff evidence...in and of itself.
Oh darn, I forgot, everybody was strangely turned into "eurasians" the minute they left Africa.....lol.
NO AFRICAN SKELETONS FOUND IN THE MIDDLE EAST ONLY CAUCASION (CRO_MAGNON) AND NEANDERTHAL> No African skeletons,no Africans and 1+1=2

First people in the Middle East Cro-Magnon now CAUCASION LOOK DUMMY!!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon

Paintings of Jews in the Middle East in a synagogue 200 years after Jesus CAUCASIAN. The Jews were always CAUCASION AND STILL ARE!!! LOOK

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dura-Europos_synagogue
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#157 Feb 24, 2013
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>NO AFRICAN SKELETONS FOUND IN THE MIDDLE EAST ONLY CAUCASION (CRO_MAGNON) AND NEANDERTHAL> No African skeletons,no Africans and 1+1=2
First people in the Middle East Cro-Magnon now CAUCASION LOOK DUMMY!!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon
Paintings of Jews in the Middle East in a synagogue 200 years after Jesus CAUCASIAN. The Jews were always CAUCASION AND STILL ARE!!! LOOK
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dura-Europos_synagogue
Do research into the beginning of Christianity in Ethiopia. As racist as you are, you still can't get around Africa. All "roads" DO led back to Africa and NOT to a "CAUCASION beginning".

wiki is NOT valid source. Try again. Dummy.
Barros Serrano

Silver City, NM

#158 Feb 24, 2013
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
You are LYING because I have posted the same article several times in the same threads you were arguing with Blacks in.
First, boy, you don't call me a liar. Got that? I don't remember the fucking link ok.

In any case, it's a bogus claim. People have claimed similarities all over, but that proves nothing. Good evidence is required.

For example, your Afronazi claims are all bogus, since you can produce no PROOF. Van Sertima says, oh look that stone head sort of looks African... but he proves nothing.

You're all full of crap. You're cultists. You are not taken seriously in academia, because you are clowns.
Barros Serrano

Silver City, NM

#159 Feb 24, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously there's enuff info. out here to substantiate a African presence in the Americas. Just the fact that Africans were the 1st to populate the earth should be enuff evidence...in and of itself.
Oh darn, I forgot, everybody was strangely turned into "eurasians" the minute they left Africa.....lol.
Nothing strange about it, boy, it's called evolution.

Did not CF and D types appear in Eurasia? Yes. And mtDNA M and N? Yep. People evolved.

You have it all wrong, boy. Eurasians populated the earth outside of Africa. CF and D. M and N. Not Africans. You're demonstrably and clearly wrong, yet again.

Do you ever get it right, boy? I think not.

You have lost the case for America and so fall back on,“Everyone came from Africa!” LOL... you rat bastards do this every time. You lose, then you fall back on cliches.

I'll slap those cliches out of you, boy.
Barros Serrano

Silver City, NM

#160 Feb 24, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
" Some researchers say that the Mesoamerican writing systems are related to African scripts. In the early 19th century, Constantine Samuel Rafinesque proposed that the Mayan inscriptions were probably related to the Libyco-Berber writing of Africa"
Wrong again, Afronazi culture-vulture boy.

Sumerian script is derived from Vincan. The symbols are nearly all the same. This is very obvious.

19th century speculations mean nothing, fool. Get your greasy racist paws off Mayan history. None of it pertains to Africa or anywhere else. The Mayans as well as the Olmecs originated in Soconusco.
Barros Serrano

Silver City, NM

#161 Feb 24, 2013
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
Well the reason some believe Olmecs are West African is due to their language. One linguist claim they spoke a Mande language. I will look for his name so you will see were some of these claims are coming from. If we go by their original name which is 'The XI People' or shi, it sounds more like an Asian origin. So I can understand the confusion with their name being of Asian origin & their language of African according to one linguistic.
It was CLYDE WINTERS, a colossal clown, claiming olmec languge was Mande. Think how absurd that is. The alleged voyages by Mande were in Medieval times! The Olmecs were gone by then! LOL!!!

That is just the sort of idiocy you befuddled Afronazis would believe. Yeah, the Mande had a time machine.

Clyde Winters is not a linguist. He is an ESL teacher. He is a joke. I have punked his ass myself online.

The Olmecs were from Soconusco, not China and not Africa, boy.
Barros Serrano

Silver City, NM

#162 Feb 24, 2013
Redefined wrote:
A New York times article about Africans in America!!!
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf...
Wiener, lol. No evidence, no proof. He is debunked by academia.

Still no:

1. DNA
2. crops
3. disease immunity
4. human remains
5. cultural artifacts
6. boats

NO evidence for Africans in America pre-1492.
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#163 Feb 24, 2013
Valid study proves Africans & did NOT change much when they moved into different continents.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12890443

only a idiot with NO LINKS would say original Africans suddenly changed. Mutations took place amongst a select few much later
Barros Serrano

Silver City, NM

#164 Feb 24, 2013
SEXYBLKWOMAN wrote:
<quoted text>
Kablyles are mostly European you have no business in Africa you invader! The other Kayblies that managed to keep their phentotype have my respect.
Yet again you are completely in error. There is ample proof that the Berbers for 30,000 year were Eurasian types, not African.

Nothing you can do about solid irrefutable genetic and morphological evidence.

MAGHREB: predominantly Eurasian for 30,000 years.
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#165 Feb 24, 2013
SEXYBLKWOMAN wrote:
<quoted text>
Lies! All of the oldest bones in North Africa were tropically adapted and weren't cold adapted types.
There were no Cro magnons ever in North Africa another European claim in insert Euros in North Africa when the only Whites in north African were women who were easy ho's to black African men.
3, Tafolo was mixed race that has been well debunked years ago!
3. There were no pictures of any Berbers except the ones that became Pharaohs in AE and they were black not White and not even mixed race. Moorish Dna in Spain is either E1B or Arab ancestery you foolish increment!
4. The moors who conquered and maintained Spain were black and still are black today the Masmuda Almohads were black the Almravoids were black the others were Arabs.
5. I don't care what they call Berbers in Spain today but they aren't White but hybrids another fact!
<quoted text>
No it isn't Proven! Berbers the language and the descent line came from black Africans you fcking hOMO! Not any Eurasian! Show me a Eurasian group that speaks the beber language or has their genetic line E1B you're full of crap! Those people are recently admixed. There were no Eurasians in North Africa in Paleothic times.
Berber history is apart of African history so fck off! Talking about Berber history is no different from talking about Egyptian or nIgerian history focus on Mexican Jews fcktard.
bump
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#166 Feb 24, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
by Ivan Van Sertima
An attack on my thesis that Africans made contact with America before Columbus in two major pre-Christian periods (circa 1200 b.c. and circa 800 b.c.) in addition to the Mandingo contact period (1310/1311 A.D.) has been circulated in advance to hundreds of subscribers to a journal, Current Anthropology. Copies of this attack by Bernard de Montellano, Warren Barbour and Gabriel Haslip-Viera were also sent out to African-American scholars, some of whom were cited in the attack, dishonestly titled "Van Sertima's Afrocentricity and the Olmecs."
The title's emphasis is meant to suggest that all revisions of African history by so-called "Blacks" belong to a common school, radiate from a common brain, and are cast in the same "racialist" hue and mode. This circular, which precedes my new book, REPLY TO MY CRITICS (scheduled to appear in Sept), seeks to highlight the brazen and malicious lies, slanders and misrepresentations that characterize this attack. Let it be noted that I was invited to respond to this attack but was forced to withdraw.
The editor, after verbally agreeing that I could reprint my commentary, after the issue of the Journal appeared, did a dramatic about-turn when pressed to sign a written agreement to back up his word. He wrote that I could only reprint my "commentary" (15 pages) if I also reprinted the attack on me (50 pages) since "they form a unit."
To feel the full absurdity of this, just imagine the Jewish Defense League being forced to republish an extended Nazi-type attack on their positions in order to republish a brief response to such a slanderous attack.

LIE ONE:- "Van Sertima's expedition allegedly sailed or drifted westward to the Gulf of Mexico where it came in contact with inferior Olmecs. These individuals created Olmec civilization." - De Montellano, Barbour and Haslip-Viera.
THE TRUTH: As far back as 1976, I made my position on this matter very clear. I never said that Africans created or founded American civilization. I said they made contact and all significant contact between two peoples lead to influences.
"I think it is necessary to make it clear - since partisan and ethnocentric scholarship seems to be the order of the day - that the emergence of the [email protected] face, which the archeological and cultural data overwhelmingly confirm, in no way presupposes the lack of a native originality, the absence of other influences or the automatic eclipse of other faces"-p. 147 of "They Came Before Columbus." See also Journal of African Civilizations, Vol 8, No. 2, 1986 "I cannot subscribe to the notion that civilization suddenly dropped onto the American earth from the Egyptian heaven."

LIE TWO: None of the early Egyptians and Nubians looked like Negroes. "They have long, narrow noses..." "Short, flat noses are confined to the West African ancestors of African-Americans." Again, "there is no evidence that ancient Nubians ever braided their hair. This style comes from colonial and modern Ethiopia."
THE TRUTH: Narrow noses have been found among millions of pure-blooded Africans. We can see this among the Elongated and Nilotic types.
My critics know nothing about the variants of Africa, ancient or modern. All the six main variants of the African have been found in the Egyptian and Nubian graves.
For examples of ancient braided Nubian hair, see Frank Snowden's "Before Color Prejudice," As for Egypto-Nubians only having narrow noses, see Egyptian pharaohs in Vol 10 and 12 of the JAC and major Nubian pharaohs in Peggy Bertram's essay (JAC, Vol.12)-Ushanaru, Plate 8, p 173; Taharka as the god Amun from Kawa Temples, Plate 9, p. 173; Shabaka, Plate 12, p. 176. Tanwetamani, Plate 16, p. 180. To say that these are narrow noses is to exhibit a colossal ignorance of African types in ancient Egypt and Nubia. The agenda behind this is to bolster their case that they could not have been models for any of the Olmec stone heads.
bump
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#167 Feb 24, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
Van Sertima: REPLY TO MY CRITICS con't
LIE FOUR: Faced with the startlingly [email protected] features of some of the Olmec stone heads, my critics try 4 ways out:(a) They are "spitting images of the native;" (b) they appear dark because some of them were carved out of dark volcanic stone; (c) some were made of white basalt which turned dark over time; (d) ancient Egyptians and Nubians were remote in physiognomy from sub-Saharan [email protected] and none of them could have been models for any of the "[email protected]" heads. Having said all that, they then claim that "races are not linked to specific physiognomic traits."
THE TRUTH: No need to shoot them down on this. They turned the gun on themselves.
LIE FIVE: Nothing African has been found in any archeological excavation in the New World.
THE TRUTH: In the drier centers of the Olmec world - at Tlatilco, Cerro de las Mesas and Monte Alban - the Polish craniologist, Andrez Wiercinski, found indisputable evidence of an African presence.
The many traits analyzed in these Olmec sites indicated individuals with [email protected] traits predominating but with an admixture of other racial traits. This is what I have said. The work of A. Vargas Guadarrama is an important reinforcement of Wiercinski's study. He found that the skulls he examined at Tlatilco, which Wiercinski had classified as [email protected], were "radically different" from other skulls on the site, bearing indisputable similarities to skulls in West Africa and Egypt.
Lie Six
Van Sertima presents no evidence that a New World cotton (gossypium hirsutum var punctatum) transferred from Guinea to the Cape Verde in 1462 by the Portuguese and there is no hard proof that West Africans made a round trip to America before Columbus.
The Truth
I cited evidence in twelve categories to establish Mandingo voyages to the New World circa AD 1310/11. THIS INCLUDED EYEWITNESS REPORTS FROM NEARLY A DOZEN EUROPEANS, EVEN COLUMBUS HIMSELF, metallurgical, linguistic, botanical, navigational, oceanographic, skeletal, epigraphic, cartographic, oral, documentation and iconographic evidence.
With regard to New World cotton in Africa before 1462, Stephens spoke two tongues to pacify isolationist colleagues
Lie Seven
My critics claim that I said that the bottle gourd came in with Old World voyagers
The Truth
I was at pains to point out that this is one plant that could drift to America without loss of seed viability.“Bottle gourds got caught in the pull of currents from the African coast and drifted to America across the Atlantic.
Thomas Whitaker and GF Carter showed that these gourds are capable of floating in seawater for 7 months without loss of seed viability”– They Came Before Columbus, 204. They indulge in an even m ore vicious dishonesty with regard to cotton, claiming that I said “Old World cottons came to America with a fleet of Nubians circa 700 BC”. I never linked cotton transfer to Nubian contact.
bump
trollslayer

Chicago, IL

#168 Feb 24, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
Van Sertima: Reply to critics con't
Lie Eight
My critics admit “we cannot equivocally date the heads but they single out one which they say Ann Cyphers confidently dated about 1011 BC. Note the date! This is 200 years AFTER the Egyptian contact period c. 1200 BC. Yet they claim that the dating of this one head proves “negro-looking heads” wee being carved, mutilated and buried prior to 1200 BC
The Truth
The stone heads could not have been buried before they were carved.
Lie Nine
The Egyptians stopped pyramid building “thousands of years” before 1200 BC. No relation whatever exists between Old World/New World pyramids
The Truth
Enourmous obelisks, calling for the same complex engineering skill of the pyramid age were built at Karnak as late as 1295 BC. A pyramid was also built as Dashur c. 1700 BC. Bart Jordan, the mathematical child prodigy, to whom Einstein granted special audience, established startling coincidences between Old World and New World pyramids. He agrees with me that “The overwhelming incidence of coincidence argues overwhelmingly against a mere coincidence”
Lie Ten
My critics claim that I have trampled upon the self-respec and self-esteem of native Americans and they have come forward to champion their cause.
The Truth
My people (for I am part Macusi and part African) would be horrified to have, as a champion of our cause, De Montellano, Barbour and Haslip-Viera, who disgrace us with the charge that “native Americans would have sacrificed and eaten the Africans if they came”
Lie Eleven
The oldest mummies in the world are associated with the Chinchorro culture of Chile
The Truth
The oldest mummy so far found is an infant mummy buried in Nubia. The Chinchorro mummy is dated 5860 BC + or – 180 but the infant mummy is dated 7438 BC + or – 220. reference to the mummy is contained in “Mummies, Diseases and Ancient Cultures” edited by Aidan and Eve Cockburn…..Prof. Mori’s earlier carbon-dating of this mummy was 3500 BC but the University of Pisa carbon assays extended the age of the mummy by taking other factors into account…..

Lie Twelve
The African cotton gossypium herbarium could not have been an ancestor of one of the American cottons. The only cotton that could have affected American wild cottons was the Pacific cotton gossypium tormentosum.
The Truth
There is no cotton by the name gossypium herbarium. Van Sertima spoke of the African cultivated cotton gossypium herbaceum.
Both Dr David Kelley, Van Sertima’s opponent in the Smithsonian debate, as well as Dr Karl Schwerin, who has done the definitive thesis on this subject:“Winds across the Atlantic”(Meso-american studies, no 6) agree with Van Sertima on this issue. Our trio of critics exhibit both ignorance as well as a pretense at knowledge on a matter they have never investigated. There is no cotton by the name of gossypium herbarium.
A herbarium is a collection of plants systematically arranged or a room or building in which such a collection of plants is kept. It is not a plant at all.
Dr Shwerin was as appalled as I was by the pretension of my critics to be plant experts and yet did not know the basics of plant storage and cultivation. Since there are three of them in playing this “Slender Van” game, couldn’t just one of them have looked up a primer on botany or asked a freshman in a botany class, so as not to expose their already transparent disguise as experts?
'bump
Astro Afro Podz

Monroe, GA

#169 Feb 24, 2013
pn2cladelover wrote:
is this an ancient egyptian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Huni-Statue...
YES or NO
did the ancient egyptians look like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Huni-Statue...
YES or NO
is this man an ancientnotrh african YES or NO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Huni-Statue...
failure to answer these questions means your a troll
Skiff "This is a definite depiction of an African." Azlaan
Astro Afro Podz

Monroe, GA

#170 Feb 24, 2013
pn2cladelover wrote:
is this an ancient egyptian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Huni-Statue...
YES or NO
did the ancient egyptians look like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Huni-Statue...
YES or NO
is this man an ancientnotrh african YES or NO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Huni-Statue...
failure to answer these questions means your a troll
He looks like Bro.KRS ONE

Skiff "Sucka MCs duck down!!!" Azlaan

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