Why don't black americans and african...

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#761 Mar 8, 2014
nina wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I agree but to us there is no such thing as "black pride" or "black consciousness" , so to try and incorporate this concept will be hard on us.
There was a Black Consciousness movement among Black South Africans, a movement of which Steven Biko was perhaps the most prominent spokesman. This may be due to the white supremacist regime with the mental colonialism which it entailed.
And there was the Negritude movement in formerly French ruled Africa. When talking to Black South Africans during the fight against apartheid, it occurred to me not only that there were similarities between AA Black consciousness and South African Black Consciousness, but also that South African Blacks were aware of this (as were many of us).
As I pointed out to some African brothers and sisters in Paris when I visited there in the late 80s, AA activists have had more success in conscientizing the Black American public about South Africa than about the struggle in Portuguese ruled Africa.
Part of the reason for this was that Black South Africans spoke English. But also, when Black South Africans---who fled to America and other countries in the thousands after the Soweto massacres---spoke in AA churches, schools, trade unions, and civic organizations about their experiences under white minority rule, it struck a responsive chord.
The segregation, the racist police brutality, the sprawling ghettoes (or townships) of poverty and misery was all too similar to our own experiences in America not to get a response from many of us. And at least the better educated among us learned about Steve Biko and Black consciousness--which also reminded us of parallel developments in our own history. We read the literature of the ANC and the PAC.(We learned that they read Malcolm X, Dr. King and others.)
Talk about the Black struggle in South Africa even began penetrating places of popular entertainment--areas not especially known for their social consciousness.(Jesse Jackson in one edition of the show "It's a Different World" talked about freeing Mandela an South Africa)
When Mandela spoke in Harlem he drew at least 100,000 people in that community once known as the "cultural capital of Black America," . And Mandela was joined by widows of Malcolm X, Dr. King, and former members of the Black Panther Party.
But then again, there were so many Black South Africans over here, and so many of us worked with them to aid the anti-apartheid movement, that the opportunity to get to know them was greater than most other African groups. Black South Africans seemed to have more of a REVOLUTIONARY consciousness on average than did other African groups, and we didn't as often get the impression that they felt superior to African Americans.(And yes, I did date a lovely South African sister in Baltimore named Mercy--her last name, which was African, I no longer remember how to spell)
nina

Houston, TX

#762 Mar 8, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text> There was a Black Consciousness movement among Black South Africans, a movement of which Steven Biko was perhaps the most prominent spokesman. This may be due to the white supremacist regime with the mental colonialism which it entailed.
And there was the Negritude movement in formerly French ruled Africa. When talking to Black South Africans during the fight against apartheid, it occurred to me not only that there were similarities between AA Black consciousness and South African Black Consciousness, but also that South African Blacks were aware of this (as were many of us).
As I pointed out to some African brothers and sisters in Paris when I visited there in the late 80s, AA activists have had more success in conscientizing the Black American public about South Africa than about the struggle in Portuguese ruled Africa.
Part of the reason for this was that Black South Africans spoke English. But also, when Black South Africans---who fled to America and other countries in the thousands after the Soweto massacres---spoke in AA churches, schools, trade unions, and civic organizations about their experiences under white minority rule, it struck a responsive chord.
The segregation, the racist police brutality, the sprawling ghettoes (or townships) of poverty and misery was all too similar to our own experiences in America not to get a response from many of us. And at least the better educated among us learned about Steve Biko and Black consciousness--which also reminded us of parallel developments in our own history. We read the literature of the ANC and the PAC.(We learned that they read Malcolm X, Dr. King and others.)
Talk about the Black struggle in South Africa even began penetrating places of popular entertainment--areas not especially known for their social consciousness.(Jesse Jackson in one edition of the show "It's a Different World" talked about freeing Mandela an South Africa)
When Mandela spoke in Harlem he drew at least 100,000 people in that community once known as the "cultural capital of Black America," . And Mandela was joined by widows of Malcolm X, Dr. King, and former members of the Black Panther Party.
But then again, there were so many Black South Africans over here, and so many of us worked with them to aid the anti-apartheid movement, that the opportunity to get to know them was greater than most other African groups. Black South Africans seemed to have more of a REVOLUTIONARY consciousness on average than did other African groups, and we didn't as often get the impression that they felt superior to African Americans.(And yes, I did date a lovely South African sister in Baltimore named Mercy--her last name, which was African, I no longer remember how to spell)
I kind of understand what your saying especially anti apartheid support movement overseas when it comes to south Africans. It was moslty because of their history with the British government and they needed support from others groups especially black groups. But now look at south Africans besides hating white people they also hate non black south African groups. They have been killing a lot of Somalis and other African people for the fear of them taking their jobs. If you don't South Africans are pretty xenophobic. As for black pride to me I honestly don't think there is such a thing. I value my culture more than race.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#763 Mar 17, 2014
Some African Americans and Africans do date and marry. It would be interesting to hear their insights on the issue of romance between Africans and American Blacks

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#764 Mar 17, 2014
nina wrote:
<quoted text>
I kind of understand what your saying especially anti apartheid support movement overseas when it comes to south Africans. It was moslty because of their history with the British government and they needed support from others groups especially black groups. But now look at south Africans besides hating white people they also hate non black south African groups. They have been killing a lot of Somalis and other African people for the fear of them taking their jobs. If you don't South Africans are pretty xenophobic. As for black pride to me I honestly don't think there is such a thing. I value my culture more than race.
Unfortunately, these ethnic tensions among Africans seem to persist in much of African, the most horrendous recent conflict being probably the Rwanda crisis of the 1990s.
My impression is that a certain "black consciousness" persists in South Africa along with the ethnic tensions.
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#765 Mar 17, 2014
Why should we date?
Typically..we have nothing in common..outside of racial labels...
There are just too many great options within our respectable groups...and the connections and(emotional) bonds are greater because of the shared languages, morals/values, customs, traditions, and history....outsiders are often "un-relatable" for the long haul.
Lisa

Tulsa, OK

#766 Mar 17, 2014
TimeforHonesty wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you do, but do you know Africans who share this view of black Americans, particularly African women?
:)

Level 4

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#767 Mar 17, 2014
Lisa wrote:
Why should we date?
Typically..we have nothing in common..outside of racial labels...
There are just too many great options within our respectable groups...and the connections and(emotional) bonds are greater because of the shared languages, morals/values, customs, traditions, and history....outsiders are often "un-relatable" for the long haul.
I recently read but for racism, Africans and black Americans, among other people of color groups, would never have a need for these talks as it would be obvious why there was not much intermingling amongst the group.(Racism distinguished from chattel slavery.)
Kitty

Tulsa, OK

#768 Mar 17, 2014
TimeforHonesty wrote:
<quoted text>
I recently read but for racism, Africans and black Americans, among other people of color groups, would never have a need for these talks as it would be obvious why there was not much intermingling amongst the group.(Racism distinguished from chattel slavery.)
Racism is pretty much the main reason why there is these calls for racial unity/intermingling....
As you notice..when some of the struggles seems to be lessen...all these racial shackles are thrown off in order to embrace attraction for non blacks....and the claim of race being a non factor in choosing a compatible partner is common.
Even in the midst of institutionalized oppression...blacks were dogged set on forcing Whites to integrate with them..

Level 4

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#769 Mar 17, 2014
Kitty wrote:
<quoted text>
Racism is pretty much the main reason why there is these calls for racial unity/intermingling....
As you notice..when some of the struggles seems to be lessen...all these racial shackles are thrown off in order to embrace attraction for non blacks....and the claim of race being a non factor in choosing a compatible partner is common.
Even in the midst of institutionalized oppression...blacks were dogged set on forcing Whites to integrate with them..
Interesting, relevant points. So is this thread created due in light of current racism or why do you these particular groups dating must be inquired about?

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#770 Mar 18, 2014
TimeforHonesty wrote:
<quoted text>
I recently read but for racism, Africans and black Americans, among other people of color groups, would never have a need for these talks as it would be obvious why there was not much intermingling amongst the group.(Racism distinguished from chattel slavery.)
But some have noted that Africans often date white Americans with whom they have no more cultural similarity than with Black Americans, or with whom they have less.
African-Americns, for better or worst, are perhaps the most Westernize Black group on earth. If cultural differences are what keeps Africans and African-Americans apart, then there should be about an equal likelihood of African/African-American bonding as of African/white bonding.
Even if the issue is education, there is now a SIZEABLE Black American professional and intellectual class---again, with a very Western bourgeois education.

So, the issue must go deeper than just cultural differences.

Level 4

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#771 Mar 18, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text> But some have noted that Africans often date white Americans with whom they have no more cultural similarity than with Black Americans, or with whom they have less.
African-Americns, for better or worst, are perhaps the most Westernize Black group on earth. If cultural differences are what keeps Africans and African-Americans apart, then there should be about an equal likelihood of African/African-American bonding as of African/white bonding.
Even if the issue is education, there is now a SIZEABLE Black American professional and intellectual class---again, with a very Western bourgeois education.
So, the issue must go deeper than just cultural differences.
Except you fail to consider other factors, including cultural VALUES and respect. Black Americans are known for sharing questionable, at best, insulting, at worst, remarks to Africans. Also, as the statistics show, most black Americans do not grow up in two parent homes, which is something that Africans hold sacred. Along with personality differences that are often due to environment and several other factors, there is a very little in common between the American black and African.

Level 8

Since: Aug 09

Saint Louis, MO

#772 Mar 18, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
. In the 1930s, there were African-Americans from Harlem who even volunteered to fight with Ethiopins against the Italian fascist invaders. Malcolm X was a Black nationalist, but also an internationalist and Pan-Africanist,
It is more correct to say that the NOI was racist and Malcolm was a Pan-Africanist. Even before his split with NOI Malcolm never preached black racism.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>And we cannot forget Marcus Garvey, whose Movement encompassed at least one million Blacks in America when there were perhaps only 10-million of us. Garveyism was a form of Pan-Africanism.
There has never been any movement comparable in scale or magnitude. MLK's Civil Rights movement was tiny in comparison. MLK was a midget compared to Garvey's giant. That analogy still applies when comparing Pan-Africanism and everything else including MLK's Civil Rights Movement and the Blacks Panthers, etc.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
In the 1930s, there were African-Americans from Harlem who even volunteered to fight with Ethiopins against the Italian fascist invaders. Malcolm X was a Black nationalist, but also an internationalist and Pan-Africanis....
It is more correct to say that the NOI was racist and Malcolm was a Pan-Africanist. Even before his split with NOI Malcolm never preached black racism.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text> Garveyism was a form of Pan-africanism. And not until the 1960s would we see a movement at all comparable in scale.
There has never been any movement comparable in scale or magnitude. MLK's Civil Rights movement was tiny in comparison. MLK was a midget compared to Garvey's giant. That analogy still applies when comparing Pan-Africanism and everything else including MLK's Civil Rights Movement and the Blacks Panthers, etc.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>Similarly, you find in the writings of Kwame Nkruman, Amilcar Cabral and others a deep awreness of the relevance of the Black Movement to the African Revolution.
There was never and gulf between the two. We started in the Garvey Movement ansd all of us always remind in the Garvey Movement to this day. Nkrmahism springs in part from Garveyism. And MLK was merely a small part of that overall.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>Nkrumah argued that 25 millions Afro-Americans were, as far as he was concerne, also part of the global African Revolution.
No. Nkrumah said we are part of the African NATION, emphasize N-A-T-I-O-N. He said are Nation and belongs the African Revolution. Get the words exactly right because when you change them you change what Nkrumah meant. What he meant is that he spent 12 years here learning thinking and teaches revolution. It was a two-way street. He became part of us and we were part of him. Do not divide us.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>And when Nelson Mandela began enumerating some of the criminal injustices inflicted on black South Africans,
You should have been thinking way back then. I realized that when Mandela came out of prison, a new phase had started in the Revolution. Up to that point, the major focus had been political. Since then the focus has been political economy. ZANU-PF has had the most correct approach. Do you support ZANU-PF and the Land Reform Movement and the indigenization drive? That is the criteria that everybody must be judged by since Mandela was released. And sad to say most of you have failed to live up to that standard.

The people were lied to as we are always lied to. The Obamas of the world told us that the Struggle was over and complete and we could all go home now. That was a lie. The Struggle was just beginning in the arena of Economic Development. I have been left alone to figure this out while folks like you have deliberately attacked me trying to silence me and destroy me and my family. But I have never stopped moving in the positive

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#773 Mar 18, 2014
Lisa wrote:
Why should we date?
Typically..we have nothing in common..outside of racial labels...
There are just too many great options within our respectable groups...and the connections and(emotional) bonds are greater because of the shared languages, morals/values, customs, traditions, and history....outsiders are often "un-relatable" for the long haul.
In a way that's quite natural. Most Brits marry Brits, and most French marry French. Needless to say, most Africans marry Africans. Most American Blacks (who still marry) marry other American Blacks.
But SOME members of every group also marry outside their group. Not only Blacks and whites marrying, but also Blacks and Asians.(White men usually go for Asians when they marry non-whites).
Of those Black Americans who do marry non-AA folk, and also non-Americans, I wonder how many marry Africans rather than Filipinos or Latin Americans--people who also belong to a different culture.
Also, I read something quite interesting. It was an article on a study done (I believe) by researchers at Cornel U. It indicated that while IR marriages and relations between Black and white Americans had increased over several decades, relations between American Blacks and NON-AMERICAN Blacks was even more frequent than IR ones.
But article didn't say whether (or what proportion of) those non-USA Blacks were from the West Indies, Latin America or Africa.
I KNOW some American Blacks date and marry Africans. I have students who are offsprings of such marriages. I've an older cousin who married a man from Mozambique. I've dated a few African women myself, though I never really met any until I was a university student......which may itself be a clue.
Nearly every African-American man or woman I know who has dated, married or been in a relationship with an African person has been a university educated person. Sometimes a businessman with economic ties to Africans which in some instances lead to a more personal connection. Also, university educated AA activists, especially during the anti-apartheid movement, met Africans in the context of the "struggle" and sometimes formed a personal bond.
And then there are AA who are open to relations with Africans because they see Africans as more family oriented. I've heard this from both AA men and AA women. SOME of the cultural differences are precisely what appeals. Some bloggist called "Madame Noire" posted several reasons why she thought AA sisters ought to take a look at African men.
And I recall an AA businessman who told me that he was preparing to marry an African woman, and added that African women are as family oriented as were AA southern women in his parents or grandparents time.

Level 8

Since: Aug 09

Saint Louis, MO

#774 Mar 18, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text> There was a Black Consciousness movement among Black South Africans, a movement of which Steven Biko was perhaps the most prominent spokesman. This may be due to the white supremacist regime with the mental colonialism which it entailed.
And there was the Negritude movement in formerly French ruled Africa. When talking to Black South Africans during the fight against apartheid, it occurred to me not only that there were similarities between AA Black consciousness and South African Black Consciousness, but also that South African Blacks were aware of this (as were many of us).
As I pointed out to some African brothers and sisters in Paris when I visited there in the late 80s, AA activists have had more success in conscientizing the Black American public about South Africa than about the struggle in Portuguese ruled Africa.
Part of the reason for this was that Black South Africans spoke English. But also, when Black South Africans---who fled to America and other countries in the thousands after the Soweto massacres---spoke in AA churches, schools, trade unions, and civic organizations about their experiences under white minority rule, it struck a responsive chord.
The segregation, the racist police brutality, the sprawling ghettoes (or townships) of poverty and misery was all too similar to our own experiences in America not to get a response from many of us. And at least the better educated among us learned about Steve Biko and Black consciousness--which also reminded us of parallel developments in our own history. We read the literature of the ANC and the PAC.(We learned that they read Malcolm X, Dr. King and others.)
Talk about the Black struggle in South Africa even began penetrating places of popular entertainment--areas not especially known for their social consciousness.(Jesse Jackson in one edition of the show "It's a Different World" talked about freeing Mandela an South Africa)
When Mandela spoke in Harlem he drew at least 100,000 people in that community once known as the "cultural capital of Black America," . And Mandela was joined by widows of Malcolm X, Dr. King, and former members of the Black Panther Party.
But then again, there were so many Black South Africans over here, and so many of us worked with them to aid the anti-apartheid movement, that the opportunity to get to know them was greater than most other African groups. Black South Africans seemed to have more of a REVOLUTIONARY consciousness on average than did other African groups, and we didn't as often get the impression that they felt superior to African Americans.(And yes, I did date a lovely South African sister in Baltimore named Mercy--her last name, which was African, I no longer remember how to spell)
Your analysis is incorrect because you want to divide and conquer Africans in one location against other Africans in a different location. Consciously or unconsciously, you are serving the enemy by doing that.

Level 8

Since: Aug 09

Saint Louis, MO

#775 Mar 18, 2014
nina wrote:
<quoted text>
I kind of understand what your saying especially anti apartheid support movement overseas when it comes to south Africans. It was moslty because of their history with the British government and they needed support from others groups especially black groups. But now look at south Africans besides hating white people they also hate non black south African groups. They have been killing a lot of Somalis and other African people for the fear of them taking their jobs. If you don't South Africans are pretty xenophobic. As for black pride to me I honestly don't think there is such a thing. I value my culture more than race.
In South Africa, they are doing stupid things becas4 the white man tells them to do stupid things. If blacks stopped fighting among ourselves in South Africa and turn all of our righteous anger on the white man, we could make some real progress. We have made almost no progress in South Africa because the white man pays troublemakers to hold us. Obama has been there a couple of times, plus Michelle paved the way for him to visit South Africa. Obama's job like Savant's job is to pull the wool over our eyes,

Level 8

Since: Aug 09

Saint Louis, MO

#776 Mar 18, 2014
Kitty wrote:
<quoted text>
Racism is pretty much the main reason why there is these calls for racial unity/intermingling....
As you notice..when some of the struggles seems to be lessen...all these racial shackles are thrown off in order to embrace attraction for non blacks....and the claim of race being a non factor in choosing a compatible partner is common.
Even in the midst of institutionalized oppression...blacks were dogged set on forcing Whites to integrate with them..
That is stupid non-sense. For example, it has recently been scientifically proven through DNA that the Melugneon people such as Elvis Presley and yours truly usually have white women as our only white ancestors. They married black men way back in the 1600's and the Melungeons are a mixed race people who came from white women marrying black men. For this reason there was never any point and preventing black men from marrying white women. The only justification was racism

“Repent and worship God”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#777 Mar 18, 2014
Abdurratln wrote:
<quoted text>In South Africa, they are doing stupid things becas4 the white man tells them to do stupid things. If blacks stopped fighting among ourselves in South Africa and turn all of our righteous anger on the white man, we could make some real progress. We have made almost no progress in South Africa because the white man pays troublemakers to hold us. Obama has been there a couple of times, plus Michelle paved the way for him to visit South Africa. Obama's job like Savant's job is to pull the wool over our eyes,
Would you advocate righteous anger on white men if they were Muslim too in SA?

“Karma”

Level 3

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#778 Mar 18, 2014
I've dated Nigerians before and they were just to bossy to aggressive and had a superiority complex just didn't like the ones I dated. Can't say that about all Africans tho that's a big continent with different types of people
Kitty

Tulsa, OK

#779 Mar 18, 2014
Abdurratln wrote:
<quoted text>
That is stupid non-sense. For example, it has recently been scientifically proven through DNA that the Melugneon people such as Elvis Presley and yours truly usually have white women as our only white ancestors. They married black men way back in the 1600's and the Melungeons are a mixed race people who came from white women marrying black men. For this reason there was never any point and preventing black men from marrying white women. The only justification was racism
You do know..you're backing my point..don't you?
I clearly said "when some of the struggles seems to be lessen...all these racial shackles are thrown off in order to embrace attraction for non blacks....and the claim of race being a non factor in choosing a compatible partner is common".

Level 8

Since: Aug 09

Saint Louis, MO

#780 Mar 18, 2014
Phoenix Ascended wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you advocate righteous anger on white men if they were Muslim too in SA?
All Muslims are brothers and sisters. I do not care what his skin color is.

But in situations like Syria where my Sunni Muslim brothers are clearly wrong to inflict so much death and suffering on the Syrian people, I oppose those who started this war and keep it going. This can cost me a lot because in my business, I need support from the oil rich Arabs. But I will stand for GOD's Justice no matter who is involved. I did not plan it this way. But when I was forced to take sides, I took the side of Justice no matter who gets offended. I am GOD's Slave. I am not a slave to any man.

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