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Unique2

Warner Robins, GA

#390 Jan 15, 2013
The Poor People's Campaign: Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. on economic injustice.

THE RELIC

United States

#391 Jan 15, 2013
Unique2 wrote:
The Poor People's Campaign: Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. on economic injustice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =2wGNJ9qFk-0XX
This is exactly what I wrote about earlier in this thread.

Just weeks before the poor people's march, they killed King.

This dwmonstration would have caused grid lock in the District.

In this video, MLK referenced reparations. The AA had a "service contract" with the USA. After the service was rendered, President Andrew Johnson illegally voided the contract and refused payment.

Instead of paying the AA our 40 acres and a mule, Johnson gave the land to whites under the Homestead Act. This is what MLK was referring to in this video.

Right now, AA's can file a class action breach of contract against the USA and win reparations.

Under the law, our damages or payment would be the "current" property value of water front property from N.C. to Florida.

Back to the poor peoples march. We were camped out in the mall and didn't have food to eat. Jessie marched us down to the Agriculture Dept. They have the largest restaurant facility in DC. Agriculture did not want to feed us but, Jessie showed out. "This us the US Department of Agriculture and we are US citizens, feed us".

We ate until we were full
THE RELIC

El Monte, CA

#392 Jan 15, 2013
The poor people's march was the last event of the civil rights movement.

US government infiltrators came into ressurrection city and started trouble. Cops came in on horses and war broke out. The very next morning bull dozers leveled resurrection city to the ground.
THE RELIC

El Monte, CA

#393 Jan 15, 2013
These krackkka's have read my file, they know I have never lost a case. They know I was in Birmingham to witness the last KKK march. They know I was sitting in court when the KKK was declared defunct.

They know AA's can win a class action breach of contract for reparations.

Any other case against the government is usually thrown out but, a breach if service contract would nail their azz to the wall.

“Leading the Revolution”

Level 6

Since: Oct 09

United States

#394 Jan 15, 2013
Real good information
Satan

Sweden

#395 Jan 15, 2013
Actually its nonsense.

Over 100 million Whites directly descend from Black Slaves. Less than 20 million blacks do.

As to Bakari/Kashtu....on the money.

Civil Rights destroyed blacks.
It did not help them.
97% of black kids were born out of wedlock prior to Civil Rights. Over 76% are born OOW now.

Malik Shabbaz (Malcolm X) had the right plan.
MLK, Jackson, Farrahkhan etc are all sell-outs.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#396 Jan 25, 2013
Malcolm X may have had more influence in the large urban ghettoes. Dr. King was most effective in the South.
I don't know if Martin could have been effective in the big urban cities had he lived a bit longer.
But Malcolm X in the South, as a major leader down there, is hardly imaginable, The Black church had too great an influence down there.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#397 Jan 25, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
Social improvements would have been made when Blacks had more money circulating in their communities, which would have come due to economic development and having money to fund self funded social services.
<quoted text>
This statement refers to economic policies that affect and improve the wealth of people who are already rich via the exploitation of less fortunate people. This typically happens in capitalistic societies, which Malcolm X was against. He was in favor of socialism, whereby the means of production would be owned by the community itself and are utilized in a planned fashion. This is what is known as a planned economy, which adjusts production to the needs of the community, would distribute the work to be done among all those able to work and improve the livelihoods of all peoples in th community irrespective of age.
In such a community, education would be designed to glorify a person based off their humanitarian efforts towards their fellow man as opposed to power attained through individual gain.
So your argument once again has no relevance to this discussion.
Are you unaware of the fact that Martin Luther King also favored socialism, and probably earlier in his thinking that did Malcolm X?
Of course, Malcolm spent many years in NOI, which leaned toward "black capitalism."

“Africa”

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Oakland

#398 Jan 25, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you unaware of the fact that Martin Luther King also favored socialism, and probably earlier in his thinking that did Malcolm X?
Of course, Malcolm spent many years in NOI, which leaned toward "black capitalism."
Malcolm X wasn't great because he believed in socialism. He was great because he actually fought for true Black empowerment and independence.

I don't know what you're talking about. The NOI never promoted capitalism during the time Malcolm was alive. What they did promote was economic empowerment and self sufficiency.

“Leading the Revolution”

Level 6

Since: Oct 09

United States

#399 Jan 25, 2013
Always an insightful view

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#400 Jan 26, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
Malcolm X wasn't great because he believed in socialism. He was great because he actually fought for true Black empowerment and independence.
I don't know what you're talking about. The NOI never promoted capitalism during the time Malcolm was alive. What they did promote was economic empowerment and self sufficiency.
At least as far back as the 1970s, I've heard members of NOI claim that Elijah Muhammad was the only successful black capitalist.
NOI certainly PRACTICED petty capitalism throughout the 1960s and beyond.
NOI conceived Black empowerment in capitalistic terms. And we've not hegun to speak of their cultural conservatism.
Part of Malcoln X's greatness was his capacity for spiritual and intellectual growth AND commitment to the liberation of Black folk.
His departure from NOI was fortunate as well as tragic. Fortunate, because it gave him new room to grow and to engage in fruitful reappraisal of the meaning and direction of the struggle. His departure from NOI gave him more room to move and grow both as an activist and as a person.
Yet it was tragic because it most likely hastened his assassination at precisely the time his horizons were expanding.
Oliver Twist

Springboro, OH

#401 Jan 26, 2013
Martin Luther King was far better as he taught love rather than hate. Blacks would never win a war against any other group because they fight so much among themselves, more than any other group of people.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#402 Jan 26, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
Like I said and have been saying, we would have been better off following Malcolm's plan rather than King's.
You stupid fools think you're "shutting me down" with your inane, irrelevant arguments, and you just keep proving my points for me.
Malcolm X could probably not have been effective in the South. Down there, the path of King, SCLC, SNCC and others was the best way to go.
In the North, things were more complicated for a number of reasons. Civil rights, however important to progress, cannot end the social misery in our ghettoes.
Interestingly enough, King adopted at least some of the ideas of Black Power and Black nationalism when addressing the problems of urban ghettoes. And it was after Selma, when his movement sought to move North, that he began talking more about democratic socialism, independent economic development of the community, and the Poor Peoples Campaign.
In short, parts of the King program and the Malcolm X program, began to merge.

“Africa”

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Oakland

#404 Jan 26, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
At least as far back as the 1970s, I've heard members of NOI claim that Elijah Muhammad was the only successful black capitalist.
NOI certainly PRACTICED petty capitalism throughout the 1960s and beyond.
NOI conceived Black empowerment in capitalistic terms. And we've not hegun to speak of their cultural conservatism.
Part of Malcoln X's greatness was his capacity for spiritual and intellectual growth AND commitment to the liberation of Black folk.
His departure from NOI was fortunate as well as tragic. Fortunate, because it gave him new room to grow and to engage in fruitful reappraisal of the meaning and direction of the struggle. His departure from NOI gave him more room to move and grow both as an activist and as a person.
Yet it was tragic because it most likely hastened his assassination at precisely the time his horizons were expanding.
It really doesn't matter what he practiced. Personally, I'm not against capatialism, because there are different forms of it, and capitalism can be madee to benefit collective if the cultural ideology is in the right place.

Malcolm never "departed" from the NOI. He was kicked out for speaking his mind about JFK, and yes, it was fortunate, but that isn't what got him killed.

He got killed after he told the media that Elijah Muhammad was an adulterer and pedophile.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Malcolm X could probably not have been effective in the South. Down there, the path of King, SCLC, SNCC and others was the best way to go.
You haven't explained how his strategy of economic empowerment and self sufficiency wouldn't have worked, or would have been less effective, especially when you already have cases where Blacks were successful, meaning economically empowering themselves via their own efforts, such as in the cases of Tulsa and Durham.

When Tulsa got burned down, they were on their way to building it back up bigger and better than what it had been before. This progress got halted due to Black people integrating and no longer seeing the need to do for self.

Tulsa got tossed to the side after the realization of King's philosophy.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#405 Jan 26, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
It really doesn't matter what he practiced. Personally, I'm not against capatialism, because there are different forms of it, and capitalism can be madee to benefit collective if the cultural ideology is in the right place.
Malcolm never "departed" from the NOI. He was kicked out for speaking his mind about JFK, and yes, it was fortunate, but that isn't what got him killed.
He got killed after he told the media that Elijah Muhammad was an adulterer and pedophile.
<quoted text>
You haven't explained how his strategy of economic empowerment and self sufficiency wouldn't have worked, or would have been less effective, especially when you already have cases where Blacks were successful, meaning economically empowering themselves via their own efforts, such as in the cases of Tulsa and Durham.
When Tulsa got burned down, they were on their way to building it back up bigger and better than what it had been before. This progress got halted due to Black people integrating and no longer seeing the need to do for self.
Tulsa got tossed to the side after the realization of King's philosophy.
I believe Malcolm was SILENCED for 90 days after his comments regarding John Kennedy's assassination. He came to believe that this silencing was going to be permanent, and that there were elements in NOI who possibly wanted him done away with. I believe Malcolm X quit NOI, having become convinced that he could accomplish more outside with his own organization.
As for the reasons for Malcolm's murder it may well have been due to his comments about Elijah Muhaamed's fornication. There ae still a lot of questions whether this was merely a hit organized by NOI or whether the FBI was involved. That I don't know.
Capitalism is inherently oppressive and exploitative. It's obseesive profiteering lay behind the slave trade, the extirpation of native Americans, European colonialism and at least two world wars. At any rate, it benefits the few at the expense of the many. For all these and other reasons, both Martin and Malcolm came to be advocates of socialism and opponents of capitalism. Some of Malcolm's ideas on this is found in MALCOLM X SPEAKS from 1964--65. Such thought are found in various parts of KIng's writings and speeches as well. One can see it in THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR, and in some addresses published under the title A TESTAMENT OF HOPE.

“Africa”

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Oakland

#406 Jan 26, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe Malcolm was SILENCED for 90 days after his comments regarding John Kennedy's assassination. He came to believe that this silencing was going to be permanent, and that there were elements in NOI who possibly wanted him done away with.
There was nothing "possibly" about it. They did try to kill him.
Savant wrote:
I believe Malcolm X quit NOI, having become convinced that he could accomplish more outside with his own organization.
As for the reasons for Malcolm's murder it may well have been due to his comments about Elijah Muhaamed's fornication. There ae still a lot of questions whether this was merely a hit organized by NOI or whether the FBI was involved. That I don't know.
The NOI always wanted him dead, after him being silenced, but the FBI essentially instigated the matter.

It was Muslims that ultimately shot him though.
Savant wrote:
Capitalism is inherently oppressive and exploitative.
I wouldn't say so. Capitalism is just the private ownership of goods and the creation of goods and services for profit.

Just economic practices are even to be found in traditional African cultures, where there are markets, and people come to sell their goods or offer services, of which profits they get to keep for themselves. It's just that in Africa, the negative factors of capitalism were somewhat curbed due to the collectivist ideology that was and is central to most of these traditional societies. If anything, you might call it capitalism its most basic form, whereas in Europe, they were advancing capitalism alongside individualism, which fueled the lack of concern for how one obtained one's profits and how they used others in order to obtain them
Savant wrote:
It's obseesive profiteering lay behind the slave trade, the extirpation of native Americans, European colonialism and at least two world wars. At any rate, it benefits the few at the expense of the many.
It was essentially Jews who invented capitalism as we know it in the Western sense, and it was their capitalism that influenced Western Europeans. This among other things engendered in Western Europeans the philosophy of exploitative capitalism, which subsequently lead to those other endevours you made mention of.
neo

United States

#407 Jan 26, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
It really doesn't matter what he practiced. Personally, I'm not against capatialism, because there are different forms of it, and capitalism can be madee to benefit collective if the cultural ideology is in the right place.
Malcolm never "departed" from the NOI. He was kicked out for speaking his mind about JFK, and yes, it was fortunate, but that isn't what got him killed.
He got killed after he told the media that Elijah Muhammad was an adulterer and pedophile.
<quoted text>
You haven't explained how his strategy of economic empowerment and self sufficiency wouldn't have worked, or would have been less effective, especially when you already have cases where Blacks were successful, meaning economically empowering themselves via their own efforts, such as in the cases of Tulsa and Durham.
When Tulsa got burned down, they were on their way to building it back up bigger and better than what it had been before. This progress got halted due to Black people integrating and no longer seeing the need to do for self.
Tulsa got tossed to the side after the realization of King's philosophy.
hj
Frank

Detroit, MI

#408 Jan 26, 2013
Makaveli__23 wrote:
<quoted text>
What? by making black people more passive and soft?
HOW THE TONGUE SURVIVED THE TEETH

Ch'ang Ch'uang was sick and Laotse went to see him. The latter said to Ch'ang Ch'uang, "You are very ill. Have you not something to say to your disciple?" "Even if you did not ask me, I was going to tell you," replied Ch'ang Ch'uang. "Do you know why one has to get down from one's carriage when coming to one's old village?" And Laotse replied, "Doesn't this custom mean that one should not forget one's origins?" "Ah, yes," said Ch'ang Ch'uang.

Then the sick man asked again, "Do you know why one should run
when passing under a tall tree?" "Doesn't this custom mean we should respect what is old?" "Ah. yes," said Ch'ang Ch'uang.

Then Ch'ang Ch'uang opened his mouth wide and asked Laotse to
look into it, and said, "Is my tongue still there?" "It is," replied Laotse. "Are my teeth still there?" asked the old man. "No," replied Laotse. "And do you know why?" asked Ch'ang Ch'uang. "Does not the tongue last longer because it is soft? And is it not because the teeth are hard that they fall off earlier?" replied Laotse. "Ah, yes," said Ch'ang Ch'uang. "There you have learned all the principles concerning the world. I have nothing else to teach you."
Frank

Detroit, MI

#409 Jan 26, 2013
HARD AND SOFT

When man is born, he is tender and weak; At death, he is hard and stiff.

When the things and plants are alive, they are soft and supple; When they are dead, they are brittle and dry.

Therefore hardness and stiffness are the companions of death, And softness and gentleness are the companions of life.

Therefore when an army is headstrong, it will lose in battle.

When a tree is hard, it will be cut down.

The big and strong belong underneath.

The gentle and weak belong at the top.

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