"the demonized Spaniards"
Spaniard

Spain

#1 Dec 3, 2008
Dark(native americans "mestizo" is a cultural tag)complexion people make up the majority in most Latin American countries.

Most people of latin america are of native american descent,yet in modern American school books children are basically taught that the "evil White Spaniards wiped out the natives by means of mass murder".

The initial conquest of Mexico was indeed brutal, but such is war. However, anyone with a good set of eyes can see that there are plenty of Amerindians and people of predominate Amerindian blood left in the area known as "Latin America" n in the US now. If such an extensive massacre occurred, how are so many left?One wonders who writes the modern history books(couldnt be an american noooooo..not at all)

Oh wait its the "good n never killed native americans thats why the US is full of native americans NOT" americans who are tellin history as they want.

Sorry kristen dont flame me for postin this in the african american forum but i want people to know that what they teach at american schools is BS.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#2 Jan 24, 2013
The main decimator of Native American populations in the Americas was European transmitted diseases against which the natives had little natural immunological resistance.
Nomad

United States

#3 Jan 24, 2013
Some native tribes were wiped out not only by disease but by Europeans killing them because they refused to submit. You don't see many Carib natives (the tribe from which I descend) around. That's because most were killed by the Spanish who said the Caribs were lazy. Uh, I prefer to think of it as my proud Carib ansestors refused to kiss white ass

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#5 Jan 25, 2013
Spaniards entered the capital of the Aztec Empire with 20,000 native American warriors as allies.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#6 Jan 25, 2013
Native
Barros Serrano-Bey

United States

#7 Jan 25, 2013
There is a "leyenda negra" used against Spain which originates with the English, in their conflict with Spain over colonial territory.

The Spanish are painted as anti-democratic, incredibly cruel, stuck in Medieval thinking... so much worse than the enlightened English with their science and industry and democracy.

Yet most of that is simply stereotype and prejudice against anything Spanish. This carries over into gringo negativity toward Mexico. Even black Yanks will claim that Mexicans are just "Spanish halfbreeds", and then invoke the whole leyenda negra against them. Their majority of Native blood is ignored. Oh no, they speak Spanish, so they can't be called Native any more...

I'm familiar with both Mexico and Spain and I like both places. They both have problems. So does the USA. I am well aware of how much evil has occurred at Spanish hands, from Inquisition to their bloody Empire and so on but Spain is a real country with real people, it's a patchwork of countries really, and the culture can be very cool... When I think of Spain I don't think of Torquemada, but rather of Picasso and the 1930's anarchists, of the films of Buñuel and Almodovar, of a steaming paella and the Ramblas at night.

Due to speaking Castilian, I've an understanding of what is going on in Spain and Mexico, and am constantly annoyed by the gringo ignorance regarding those countries and cultures. Gringos really need to lose the residual leyenda negra in their heads. Get over it! The conflict between Britain and Spain is over! There's just as much evil in the history of the British Empire as the Spanish, yet we try to get past that, don't we?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#8 Jan 25, 2013
That 20,000 figure is wrong. More like five thousand.

Moctezuma was succeeded as Emperor by Cuitlahuac, who immediately set out to organize a determined resistance to the Spanish forces. As the month of June approached its end, Cortés realized that he would have to exit the city or face annihilation by a numerically superior force. On July 1, 1520, 1,250 Spaniards and 5,000 Tlaxcalans attempted to flee the city. This night - often referred to as La Noche Triste, the Night of Sadness - was a disaster for both the Spaniards and Tlaxcalan forces. As they fled the city, the Mexica forces fell upon them, killing 450 Spanish soldiers, 4,000 Tlaxcalans and 46 horses

http://hispanicvista.com/hvc/Opinion/Guest_Co...

Hernan Cortez-Knight of Our Lady
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/catholict...
Finally in Feb 1521, 8,000 Tlaxcalan bearers, 20,000 Tlaxcalan soldiers and Spanish soldiers arrived in a procession that continued for 6 hours, carrying the 13 ...

History of Mexico - The State of Jalisco
http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/jalisco....
However, eventually Viceroy Mendoza, with a force of 300 horsemen, 300 infantry, eight pieces of artillery and 20,000 Tlaxcalan and Aztec Indian allies,...

Greater numbers took part in the actual attack though.

.

Battle of Tenochtitlan - New World Encyclopedia
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Bat...
Jan 7, 2013 ... 20,000 native allies, 100,000 warriors 100,000 .... Cortes wanted to flee to Tlaxcalan, so a path directly east would have been most favorable.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#11 Jan 25, 2013
SMDH wrote:
<quoted text>
European transmitted diseases? What like smallpox, first known case a mummy in ancient Egypt? First recorded symptoms in China and middle-east, all before European contact.
Sure, Europeans - and their Negroes - may have transmitted the diseases but the point of origin od the many diseases was not Europe.
The fact that NA were not disease resistant to smallpox, a disease known in Africa before European contact, is something Afrocentrics hate, because it debunks any notion of pre-Columbian Negro contact.
Thing is, Negro, whomever eventually went on to explore the world would have eventually given the NA diseases that they had no protection from.
The only way it wouldn't have happened would if the whole of humanity were as backward and as superstitious as the Negro, then no one would have ever left their homeland.
One more thing. Syphilis did not exist in Europe until AFTER Columbus, coincidence? NA's had a better resilience to it, proof that it came from America.
Disease spread works both ways.
Well Sambo, I didn't touch on disease origins because it's irrelevant to the subject. The topic is what caused the greater
number of deaths among NA-European-transmitted deseases or military action? The consensus among reputable historians, Sambo, is that disease was the main culprit.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#12 Jan 25, 2013
SMDH wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever 'White' history says about the Spaniards, or indeed the Portuguese, their own figures and calculations show that up 95% of all slaves taken from Africa went to Spanish/Portuguese colonies. That is something US liberals and Negroes seem to conveniently forget.
They also forget that it was White countries like Britain that tried to put an end to slavery in Africa, knowing it was wrong. This met resistance from African and Arab slave traders. Gordon Pasha of Khartoum was in part murdered by the Mahdi because he tried to stop the Arab/Muslim slave trade there.
Negroes, and libtards, have tunnel vision when it comes to White folks.
This has nothing to do with what vrs blacks Sambo.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#13 Jan 25, 2013
"whites"
Barros Serrano-Bey

United States

#14 Jan 25, 2013
SMDH wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever 'White' history says about the Spaniards, or indeed the Portuguese, their own figures and calculations show that up 95% of all slaves taken from Africa went to Spanish/Portuguese colonies. That is something US liberals and Negroes seem to conveniently forget.
They also forget that it was White countries like Britain that tried to put an end to slavery in Africa, knowing it was wrong. This met resistance from African and Arab slave traders. Gordon Pasha of Khartoum was in part murdered by the Mahdi because he tried to stop the Arab/Muslim slave trade there.
Negroes, and libtards, have tunnel vision when it comes to White folks.
LOL at your politics. Negroes and libtards? So, I see you're a racist and a fascist.

You have the wrong conception. You cannot perpetuate the notion that somehow the English (“whites” you call them, as if the Spanish weren't white) were enlightened and benevolent while the Spanish were evil. None of the Euroimperialists are defensible. Spain, Portugal, France, Netherlands, England.

Mexico abolished slavery in 1822, upon independence. All indigenous people, those still speaking their language and having indigenous cultural identity (as opposed to the Castilian-speaking Natives of the mainstream population) were given the vote. USA abolished slavery in 1865, Natives had the vote in 1920.

It would appear that your leyenda negra has no more substance than the rest of your racist and traitorous cant.
Barros Serrano-Bey

United States

#15 Jan 25, 2013
Brainiac2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Sambo, I didn't touch on disease origins because it's irrelevant to the subject. The topic is what caused the greater
number of deaths among NA-European-transmitted deseases or military action? The consensus among reputable historians, Sambo, is that disease was the main culprit.
This is correct. When the “Pilgrims” arrived in Massachusetts, they found empty villages, and their friend Squanto was the ONLY survivor of his sub-tribe. The population of Massachusetts was severely reduced by disease before the English settled. And why? Because there had been traders of several nationalities stop along the coast and do business with the native people, and they had brought diseases with them. I am aware of Portuguese and English... there were others, perhaps Basques.

There was a spreading lethal epidemic in Mexico radiating outward from anywhere the Spanish went. The same in eastern North America, where de Soto and other early explorers caused population reductions which the later French and English did not realize represented only a remnant of the original population, which had been organized along the rivers in large cities, with a trading network which covered nearly the entire continent. There was continuity with Mexico, the mounds complexes often reflecting Mexican urban design, and trade which brought crop varieties northward, enabling the spread of settlements and trading networks. When the French arrived, the Iroquois were poised to take over most of eastern North America, the unified military power of which could likely have resisted the Europeans.

Well, the whole affair was a colossal disaster. The diseases had indeed originated outside of Europe, mostly in eastern Asia. India, the Mideast, Africa and Europe all were exposed to most of them. Native Americans had not been...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#16 May 27, 2013
Barros Serrano-Bey wrote:
<quoted text>
This is correct. When the “Pilgrims” arrived in Massachusetts, they found empty villages, and their friend Squanto was the ONLY survivor of his sub-tribe. The population of Massachusetts was severely reduced by disease before the English settled. And why? Because there had been traders of several nationalities stop along the coast and do business with the native people, and they had brought diseases with them. I am aware of Portuguese and English... there were others, perhaps Basques.
There was a spreading lethal epidemic in Mexico radiating outward from anywhere the Spanish went. The same in eastern North America, where de Soto and other early explorers caused population reductions which the later French and English did not realize represented only a remnant of the original population, which had been organized along the rivers in large cities, with a trading network which covered nearly the entire continent. There was continuity with Mexico, the mounds complexes often reflecting Mexican urban design, and trade which brought crop varieties northward, enabling the spread of settlements and trading networks. When the French arrived, the Iroquois were poised to take over most of eastern North America, the unified military power of which could likely have resisted the Europeans.
Well, the whole affair was a colossal disaster. The diseases had indeed originated outside of Europe, mostly in eastern Asia. India, the Mideast, Africa and Europe all were exposed to most of them. Native Americans had not been...
No way they could hope to resist a double attack like that.
Schutzstaffel

Australia

#17 May 28, 2013
Any clown who says Spaniards aren't white needs to get an education. Their DNA and history shows they are white, and on top of that Hitler had Spaniards in his Waffen Schutzstaffel!
Ramapithecus Estupidicus

Harrisburg, PA

#18 May 28, 2013
Nomad wrote:
Some native tribes were wiped out not only by disease but by Europeans killing them because they refused to submit. You don't see many Carib natives (the tribe from which I descend) around. That's because most were killed by the Spanish who said the Caribs were lazy. Uh, I prefer to think of it as my proud Carib ansestors refused to kiss white ass
Dats culled uh dubble wammah.

Nomeeeeens?

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