the moors were black africans not ara...

“DANGER!!”

Level 8

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#17336 Sep 11, 2013
CuloHecho wrote:
Typical Euro-centric ignorance and arrogance.
The Maghreb and the whole of North Africa were originally Black Lands.
The first inhabitants were of Ethiopoid type. They migrated there before anyone else and passed down their to their descendents including their mixed offspring with Eurasians, Eurasian females ,in particular.
The true and original Berbers are from the Horn of Africa; there is a whole region called Berbera in Somalia.
The original and true Berbers of North Africa looked no different than their genetic brothers from the Horn of Africa aka Horners or Ethiopoids.
Europoid looking Berbers are light skinned mulattoes, quadroons, octoroons and quintroons with varying levels of black "Ethiopoid" admixture.
On their father side, their black ancestors were of Ethipoid type. On their mother side, their ancestors came from Eurasia.
There are still a large number unmixed Berbers in North Africa and they are Ethiopoid carriers of the E3b haplogroup. They mostly live in rural areas and southern regions.
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/6/13...
Locating the Origin of Haplogroup E-M78
An eastern African origin for this haplogroup was hypothesized on the basis of the exclusive presence in that area of a putative ancestral 12-repeat allele at the DYS392 microsatellite, found in association with E-M78 chromosomes (Semino et al. 2004).
An eastern African origin for haplogroup E-M78 was also hypothesized on the basis of the frequency distribution and microsatellite diversity (Cruciani et al. 2004)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_...
Haplogroup E is the most prevalent haplogroup amongst the Berbers accounting for up to 87 percent of Y-chromosomes among some Berber populations.
Haplogroup E is thought to have emerged in East-Africa and would have later dispersed into North Africa and Eurasia.
The major sub-clades of haplogroup E found amongst Berbers belong to E1b1b1 which is believed to have emerged in East Africa.
Common subclades include, E1b1b1a, E1b1b1b and E1b1b1
E1b1b1b is distributed along a west-to-east cline with frequencies which can reach as high as 80 percent in Northwest Africa.
Neither Maghribíya nor any other part of coastal North Africa was EVER 'Black'.

Only during the Muslim Arab occupation were there any Negroïds brought into North Africa.

NOTHING in that "Cruciani" report suports what you are trying to make appear as actual truth.

What has been merely "proposed" was never proven, and those references never related to the Berbers of the Maghrib who, BTW, overwhelmingly outnumber those few very scattered Saharan tribes.
LION

Charlotte, NC

#17341 Sep 11, 2013
zanoni wrote:
<quoted text>
If that's true, where are the black genes in Spanish people?
When the Spanish came to the Americas they interbred with the natives in Meso-America.
DNA tests have been performed on Meso-American natives and out of the subjects tested, only 3 were found to have African genes, and these genes were easily attributed to Africans brought to the Americas during the slave trade.
This implies that the Spanish who came to the Americas didn't have African genes.
There are a lot of blacks who have a predominate eurasion or caucasion dna gene.
And most early writers who wrote about moors only wrote of negro types.
trollslayer

Hazel Crest, IL

#17343 Sep 11, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
" All the early major Berber tribes including the Masmuda, Sanhaja, Ketama Zenata and Nafusa are described as dark reddish brown like the “Indi’ or as “blacks” or Ethiopians in early documents. The notion of the early Berbers as being “whites” or Caucasoid is a new and racist one related to the concept of the African “Hamite”. Certainly the original Berber-speakers were never referred to as anything but “black” or something near it until the 12th century and were otherwise considered the color of Abyssinians and other so called “Indi”.
Even the Kabyles a notoriously fair-skinned “Berber” people of North Africa are up until the 19th century described as “brown” "apart from a few clans".(See quotes below).
The knowledge that Europeans were changing the complexion literally and figuratively of North Africa up until the 19th century has disappeared from modern European histories. Most know about the large part played by sub-saharan black slaves in the making of modern North Africa and Arabia while the white slave trade which was in fact dominant trade in North Africa until the fall of Constantinople (Istanbul in Turkey) in the 15th century had been largely ignored in historical writings of the 20th.
Yet it was only a few centuries ago that Europeans visiting North Africa commenting on the fact that,“on almost every street of the cities of Barbary, Europeans could be seen harnessed to carts like draught horses or selling water from jars loaded on the backs of donkeys”.
1809 Commentary on those called “Moors” by an early 19th century observer:“They carry the Christian captives about the desert to the different markets to sell them for they soon discover that their habits of life render them unserviceable , or very inferior to the black slaves of Timbuktoo.“ from An Account of the Empire of Marocco, by J. G. Jackson published 1809 and 1814.
2003 -“From 1500 to 1650 when trans-Atlantic slaving was still in its infancy more Europeans were taken to Barbary than black African slaves to the Americas. See, Robert Davis Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800, MacMillan Publishers, published 2003. "
_____
Is all this untrue? lets see a link
bump
trollslayer

Hazel Crest, IL

#17344 Sep 11, 2013
LION wrote:
<quoted text>
There are a lot of blacks who have a predominate eurasion or caucasion dna gene.
And most early writers who wrote about moors only wrote of negro types.
any educated person knows the Moors were originally Black
trollslayer

Hazel Crest, IL

#17345 Sep 11, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
There were NO Africans in the Americas prior to Columbus era. The Americas had nothing to do with Africans NOR with any Europeans or 'Muslim Moors' or Middle Eastern people.
"People with skulls resembling Paleo-Indians were present in Asia around 20,000 years ago, and lacking the technology to cross the Pacific Ocean by boat, they probably crossed the land bridge to Alaska several thousand years before the Siberians, said study co-author Mark Hubbe of the Universidade de S?o Paulo."
http://www.livescience.com/3976-skulls-south-...
"All "African" Y data in the New World that I have seen is consistent with ---> POST <--- European contact rather then the fanciful leap made by others." ~ Underhill, P. A
"Moors" did not hold a racial identity, stupid, it was originally meant towards North African Berbers, later on it was applied towards mostly Muslims of ANY COLOR and race including many who were white, black, brown, mixed and everything in between, moron. In other words included many Moors who were not 'black'.
http://warfare.totalh.net/Cantiga/Cantigas_de...
http://warfare.totalh.net/Cantiga/Cantigas_de...
"Black and White Moors: "The Beydanes, also known as White Moors, are the ruling caste in Mauritania. They are Arab Berber tribesmen whose ancestors established control in the seventeenth century. The Haratin, also known as Black Moors, are the descendants of black West Africans conquered and enslaved by the Beydanes centuries ago." from the New Yorker story, A Slave in New York, about a former slave who escaped in 1978, came to live in America and now works with the American Anti-Slavery Group.
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2000/01/24/2...
LOL.....DID YOU SEE THIS IN THE LINK YOU GAVE???

" The skulls belonging to the earliest known South Americans--or Paleo-Indians--had long, narrow crania, projecting jaws, and low, broad eye sockets and noses. Drastically different from American Indians, these skulls appear more similar to modern Australians, Melanesians, and Sub-Saharan >>>>>>> > Africans.<<<< <<<<

This indicates that these skulls--which date to 7,500 to 11,000 years ago--were not merely anomalies but rather were the majority, supporting the hypothesis that two distinct populations colonized the Americas. "

Skulls in South America Tell New Migration Tale

http://www.livescience.com/3976-skulls-south-...
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#17346 Sep 11, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.....DID YOU SEE THIS IN THE LINK YOU GAVE???
" The skulls belonging to the earliest known South Americans--or Paleo-Indians--had long, narrow crania, projecting jaws, and low, broad eye sockets and noses. Drastically different from American Indians, these skulls appear more similar to modern Australians, Melanesians, and Sub-Saharan >>>>>>> > Africans.<<<< <<<<
This indicates that these skulls--which date to 7,500 to 11,000 years ago--were not merely anomalies but rather were the majority, supporting the hypothesis that two distinct populations colonized the Americas. "
Skulls in South America Tell New Migration Tale
http://www.livescience.com/3976-skulls-south-...
Um...they said they were similar NOT Sub-Saharan! There is a difference! Most sites say they were Australoids!

Sinajuavi
Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#17349 Sep 11, 2013
zanoni wrote:
My guess is that the word "moor" comes from the same root word the word "moreno" comes from, in Spanish moreno means dark, or brunette.
So the word moor just means dark, not necessarily black.
Wrong. The word originates with a Phoenician word for “western”, referring to the Maghreb.

Sinajuavi
Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#17350 Sep 11, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
any educated person knows the Moors were originally Black
Wrong, uneducated boy.

The Moors were originally Maghrebian Berbers, and not black. Just as the Maghreb was not black, but Eurasian for 30,000 years.

Stop talking $hit, boy, or I'll slap that crap out of you.

Sinajuavi
Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#17351 Sep 11, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.....DID YOU SEE THIS IN THE LINK YOU GAVE???
" The skulls belonging to the earliest known South Americans--or Paleo-Indians--had long, narrow crania, projecting jaws, and low, broad eye sockets and noses. Drastically different from American Indians, these skulls appear more similar to modern Australians, Melanesians, and Sub-Saharan >>>>>>> > Africans.<<<< <<<<
This indicates that these skulls--which date to 7,500 to 11,000 years ago--were not merely anomalies but rather were the majority, supporting the hypothesis that two distinct populations colonized the Americas. "
Skulls in South America Tell New Migration Tale
http://www.livescience.com/3976-skulls-south-...
We have punked & debunked you over this argument so many times you're still walking like a duck.

There was nothing AFRICAN about those skulls. They were of archaic eastern Asian type. This is proven by morphological analysis, and likewise for Kennewick which white racists (you know, people just like you but paler) have claimed was European.

Number of Africans in preecolumbian America = 0

Sinajuavi
Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#17352 Sep 11, 2013
LION wrote:
<quoted text>
There are a lot of blacks who have a predominate eurasion or caucasion dna gene.
And most early writers who wrote about moors only wrote of negro types.
This is the same bull$hit you repeat over and over.

Black people with Eurasian DNA, lol. And in AFRICA? LOL!!!

No, early writers said no such thing, boy. You are a lying piece of $hit. In person I would slap the lies out of you for a day or 2.

You speak of no early writers, but Medieval ones. We have ample proof that the Maghreb has been predominantly Eurasian for 30,000 years, and there's no amount of your bs gonna change that, boy.
LION

Huntersville, NC

#17353 Sep 11, 2013
zanoni wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I know who you are referring to.
The ones who have European facial features and very dark skin, right?
I am talking about negro types. 99 percent of descriptions of early moors were of negro or mulatto types (tawny moors). Most Moorish coat of arms are of sub Saharan negro type moors.
The white offsprings of the black moors were called moros, not moors.
LION

Huntersville, NC

#17354 Sep 11, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
any educated person knows the Moors were originally Black
These guys are just generalizing. They are not connecting the dots.
LION

Huntersville, NC

#17355 Sep 11, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. The word originates with a Phoenician word for “western”, referring to the Maghreb.
Wrong! The word came from the romans when they invaded Africa. That is what they called the blacks that they came across.
LION

Huntersville, NC

#17356 Sep 11, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the same bull$hit you repeat over and over.
Black people with Eurasian DNA, lol. And in AFRICA? LOL!!!
No, early writers said no such thing, boy. You are a lying piece of $hit. In person I would slap the lies out of you for a day or 2.
You speak of no early writers, but Medieval ones. We have ample proof that the Maghreb has been predominantly Eurasian for 30,000 years, and there's no amount of your bs gonna change that, boy.
Early wriers who spoke of negro moors?
Abu Shama
Ali Ibn Allah
and there are many many more witnesses of the era.
LION

Huntersville, NC

#17357 Sep 11, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the same bull$hit you repeat over and over.
Black people with Eurasian DNA, lol. And in AFRICA? LOL!!!
No, early writers said no such thing, boy. You are a lying piece of $hit. In person I would slap the lies out of you for a day or 2.
You speak of no early writers, but Medieval ones. We have ample proof that the Maghreb has been predominantly Eurasian for 30,000 years, and there's no amount of your bs gonna change that, boy.
There are black tribe in south Africa that look black as hell but carry a predominate eurasion dna sequence.

Sinajuavi
Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#17358 Sep 11, 2013
LION wrote:
<quoted text>
I am talking about negro types. 99 percent of descriptions of early moors were of negro or mulatto types (tawny moors). Most Moorish coat of arms are of sub Saharan negro type moors.
The white offsprings of the black moors were called moros, not moors.
This is a lie, boy.

What descriptions? Link to ONE. LOL... you will link to Shakespeare! LOL!

WHAT early descriptions, I repeat, you lying piece of $hit.

MOROS means MOORS. There is no difference. You are twisting and turning to pretend they were black. They were not. They were Maghrebian Berbers, Eurasians, as is well proven by lots of EARLY ARTISTS you bitxh.

You do not speak Castilian so shut the F up or I'll shut you up.
trollslayer

Lansing, IL

#17360 Sep 11, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
We have punked & debunked you over this argument so many times you're still walking like a duck.
There was nothing AFRICAN about those skulls. They were of archaic eastern Asian type. This is proven by morphological analysis, and likewise for Kennewick which white racists (you know, people just like you but paler) have claimed was European.
Number of Africans in preecolumbian America = 0
" The skulls belonging to the earliest known South Americans--or Paleo-Indians--had long, narrow crania, projecting jaws, and low, broad eye sockets and noses. Drastically different from American Indians,

___

these skulls appear more similar to modern Australians, Melanesians, and Sub-Saharan Africans."

Translation for trolls: The skulls were NOT "asian, euro or native amer." They were more African, Australians and Melanesian....which IS the order they left Africa.

Lesson over....and here the link
http://www.livescience.com/3976-skulls-south-...
___

this probably explains th Olmecs too.

Level 5

Since: Sep 12

Kinshasa, Congo, The Democratic Republic of the

#17361 Sep 12, 2013
Sinajuavi said

MOROS means MOORS. You are twisting and turning to pretend they were black.
They were not.

They were Maghrebian Berbers, Eurasians,

KiloEcho replies

Berbers are not Eurasians AT ALL

Berbers are indigenous North Africans and their DNA proves it.

E3b originates in East Africa and one its subclade E-M81 is called the Berber Marker

Both linguistic and genetic evidence indicate origins of Berber speakers in East Africa and migration of Berber speakers from East Africa.

Genetic Studies:

Mitochondrial DNA analysis of northwest African populations.

"The majority of the maternal ancestors of the Berbers must have come from Europe and the Near East since the Neolithic." - Rando JC, Pinto F, Gonzalez AM, Hernandez M, Larruga JM, Cabrera VM, Bandel

http://www.citeulike.org/user/Archaeogen …

"The Y-chromosome is passed exclusively through the paternal line. According to Bosch et al. 2001 ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles …

"the historical origins of the NW African Y-chromosome pool may be summarized as follows: 75% NW African Upper Paleolithic (H35, H36, and H38), 13% Neolithic (H58 and H71), 4% historic European gene flow (group IX, H50, H52), and 8% recent sub_Saharan African (H22 and H28)", mostly from an "Upper Paleolithic colonization that probably had its origin in eastern Africa".

Linguistic studies:

"Their language is Afro-Asiatic, and thus descended from a proto-Afro-Asiatic language which most likely originated in east Africa no earlier than 12,000 years ago, although other academics argue for the Sahara or the Middle East. According to professor Christopher Ehret, they probably came from the African coast of the Red Sea."

"The Nobiin variety of Nubian contains several Berber loanwords, according to Bechhaus_Gerst, suggesting a former geographical distribution extending further southeast than the present."

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia …

Historic studies:

The Ancient Egyptians called neighboring Libya Tehenu. Its inhabitants had dark skin and curly hair.- Ahmed Fakhry, "Siwa Oasis" p. 76.

"Early southern Egyptian/Nubian and Saharan remains are clearly a part of the Saharo-tropical range of variation.

Northern modern Berber-speakers are frequently notably "European," in phenotype but even they have tropical African "marker" gene frequencies greater than those found in southern Europeans.

"Blacks" have long lived in northern Africa (see review in Keita 1990)." - S.O.Y. Keita, 1993.

E3b originates in Africa.

"Cruciani et al give an estimate of 24-27 thousand years ago for the date of the most recent common ancestor of all E3b's and named eastern Africa as the probable place of origin."

Barros, you know that the word moor was applied by ancient and medieval Europeans, including olive skinned Spaniards and Portuguese to people who were darker than themselves.

http://bridgingcultures.neh.gov/muslimjourney...

In the Latin Middle Ages, Mauri referred to a mixture of Berbers and Arabs inhabiting the coastal regions of Northwest Africa.

In Spain, Portugal, and Italy, Mauri became Moros (Maures in French).

More commonly, however, it was a racial designation for dark-skinned or black peoples, as in its English usage, which is seen as early as the fourteenth century.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php...

Moor

North African, Berber," late 14c., from Old French More, from Medieval Latin Morus, from Latin Maurus "inhabitant of Mauritania" (northwest Africa, a region now corresponding to northern Algeria and Morocco), from Greek Mauros, perhaps a native name, or else cognate with mauros "black" (but this adjective only appears in late Greek and may as well be from the people's name as the reverse).

Being a dark people in relation to Europeans, their name in the Middle Ages was a synonym for "Negro;"

later (16c.-17c.) used indiscriminately of Muslims (Persians, Arabs, etc.) but especially those in India.
dreamhunk

Calgary, Canada

#17362 Sep 12, 2013
African Origins of Christianity by Rev. K. Price

trollslayer

East Chicago, IN

#17363 Sep 13, 2013
dreamhunk wrote:
African Origins of Christianity by Rev. K. Price
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =tMepcFS9OfsXX
good info. I don't have to see the vid to know like most intelligent PPL. that Christianity and all the other religions had it's beginnings in Africa.

Of course the euro lie is that "all religions like civilizations were brought to 'so-called-savage Africa' from Europe"......SHM

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