the moors were black africans not ara...
trollslayer

South Holland, IL

#13200 Feb 14, 2013
" Millions of North Africans are the descendants of Africanized European slaves (the Janissaries, the Mameluk, the Barbary slaves, the Saqaliba) or the mixed offspring of dark brown skinned North Africans and their Eurasian female sex slaves, wives, concubines.

Numerous studies have demonstrated that the so called "White" Kabyles have distant Eurasian female ancestors and East African male ancestors. "

-KiloEcho

______

http://www.google.com/url...
Barros Serrano

United States

#13201 Feb 14, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
" Millions of North Africans are the descendants of Africanized European slaves (the Janissaries, the Mameluk, the Barbary slaves, the Saqaliba) or the mixed offspring of dark brown skinned North Africans and their Eurasian female sex slaves, wives, concubines.
Numerous studies have demonstrated that the so called "White" Kabyles have distant Eurasian female ancestors and East African male ancestors. "
-KiloEcho
______
http://www.google.com/url...
The eurasian component is from the original Eurasians who migrated in 30k, 10k and 7k years ago, fool.

Notice that the most remote Berbers, up in the mts, are the “whitest”...

How stupid you wankers are. Here you are posting in the presence of several well-educated persons, including myself, and yet you persist in babbling this nonsense.

Truly your self-hatred runs very deep...
trollslayer

South Holland, IL

#13202 Feb 14, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
Nazlet Khater man was the earliest modern human skeleton found near Luxor, in 1980. The remains was dated from between 35,000 and 30,000 years ago.

The report regarding the racial affinity of this skeleton concludes: "Strong alveolar prognathism combined with fossa praenasalis in an African skull is suggestive of [email protected] morphology [form & structure]. The radio-humeral index of Nazlet Khater is practically the same as the mean of Taforalt (76.6). According to Ferembach (1965) this value is near to the [email protected] average.
" The burial was of a young man of 17-20 years old, whose skeleton lay in a 160cm- long narrow ditch aligned from east to west. A flint tool, which was laid carefully on the bottom of the grave, dates the burial as contemporaneous with a nearby flint quarry. The morphological features of the Nazlet Khater skeleton were analysed by Thoma (1984).

The 35,000 year old skeleton was examined using multivariate statistical procedures. In the first part, principal components analysis is performed on a dataset of mandible dimensions of 220 fossils, sub-fossils and modern specimens, ranging in time from the Late Pleistocene to recent and restricted in space to the African continent and Southern Levant.---Thoma A., Morphology and Affinities of the Nazlet Khater Man; Journal of Human Evolution, vol. 13, 1984
__________

if we look around N. Africa I'm sure we will find more examples of others like Nazlet Khater man.
trollslayer

South Holland, IL

#13203 Feb 14, 2013
A Moorish Progenitor of the Austrian Habsburg bloodline

]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-l8n q5mel4pA/UI6iaYFPIbI/AAAAAAAAB D8/ZriseV4q4AA/s320/Moor+Habsb urg.jpg
Jake

Springfield, NJ

#13204 Feb 15, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
A Moorish Progenitor of the Austrian Habsburg bloodline
]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-l8n q5mel4pA/UI6iaYFPIbI/AAAAAAAAB D8/ZriseV4q4AA/s320/Moor+Habsb urg.jpg
Dumb primitive kknnneee gggrrrooo, the Austrian Habsburg bloodline has no Moorish Progenitor, their bloodline was strictly YT that is why they were able to advance into the modern ages with Austria being a modern Developed Western country with higher standards of living while you
kkknnnneee gggrrrroosss still live like the undeveloped primitive knnneee gggrrrooosss you are in undeveloped crapola Africa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Kkkkknnnnnneeeeee gggggrrrroooosss version of a "Space Programs", What a joke! lol
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/5483100...

Level 5

Since: Sep 12

Kinshasa, Congo, The Democratic Republic of the

#13206 Feb 15, 2013
Barros Serrano

The eurasian component is from the original Eurasians who migrated in 30k, 10k and 7k years ago, fool.

Notice that the most remote Berbers, up in the mts, are the “whitest”...
How stupid you wankers are.

Here you are posting in the presence of several well-educated persons, including myself, and yet you persist in babbling this nonsense.

Truly your self-hatred runs very deep

KiloEcho replies

The most remote Berbers, up in the mountains, are the whitest. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

This is ridiculous statement.

They live far away in the mountains and so what?

They cannot have dark brown skinned ancestors?!!! Many octoroons can have the whitest skin and yet they have Black ancestors

They cannot be former European slaves who took refuge in the Atlas mountains in order to escape from White slavery at the hands of dark brown skinned Moors?!!!

They cannot be the descendents of European INVADERS who just happened to like living in the Mountains?!!!

DNA studies have proven that even the whitest looking Berber up in the Atlas Mountains has a distant East African male ancestor through their paternal e1b somalid haplogroup.

There were no indigenous "Eurasians"in Africa, including North Africa

Africa is also known as the Dark Continent, El Continente Negro, le Continent Noir because of the dark brown skin color of its indigenous inhabitants.

Dark brown North Africa became lighter and lighter over time because of thousands of years of White slavery, White settlements and White invasions and NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

Indigenous North Africans look no different than mulattoes, quadroons, octoroons because they are the mixed offspring of the indigenous dark brown skinned Africans and Eurasian or Western Asian slaves, invaders and settlers.

You are babbling nonsense with your imaginary Eurasian North Africa 30k years ago

“DANGER!!”

Level 8

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#13207 Feb 15, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
" Millions of North Africans are the descendants of Africanized European slaves (the Janissaries, the Mameluk, the Barbary slaves, the Saqaliba) or the mixed offspring of dark brown skinned North Africans and their Eurasian female sex slaves, wives, concubines.
Numerous studies have demonstrated that the so called "White" Kabyles have distant Eurasian female ancestors and East African male ancestors. "
-KiloEcho
______
http://www.google.com/url...
The general population of North Africa has not changed significantly since before the Holocene Period.

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Ado...

"The indigenous North African ancestry may have been more common in Berber populations and appears most closely related to populations outside of Africa, but divergence between Maghrebi peoples and Near Eastern/Europeans likely precedes the Holocene (>12,000 ya)."

THAT alone dispels any asinine unscientific fantasy speculations about European slaves having been so numerous as to have actually been able to put a noticeable dent in the genetic profile of North Africa.

Since before the Holocene Period, the general overall population of Western North Africa has consisted of the three following genetic structures, and has not changed significantly:

http://www.humanphenotypes.com/Saharid.html

http://www.humanphenotypes.com/Berberid.html

http://www.humanphenotypes.com/Arabid.html

…and there’s not a dámned thing you can do to change that.

•••

http://www.humanphenotypes.com/NorthAethiopid...

Even the "North Aethiopid" which is associated with the Beja , Hadendowa, Tigre and similar people,

and is said to be the origin of the "Saharan Tuareg" are "Mostly Caucasoid with only very few Nég®öïd elements".

http://www.humanphenotypes.com/SouthSaharid.h...

There's also the "South Saharid" type, of which there aren't very many, as they are strictly from the Saharan Desert which is very sparsely populated.

Those "South Saharid" Peoples are "Predominantely Caucasoid, but with visible Nég®öïd influences".

•••

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Ado...

So much for that ídiot speculation about an imaginary population changing onslaught of European Slaves, FÓÓL.

If THAT had actually been happening, to that degree, there never would have been a market for the BLACK SLAVES that the the Saharan Tuareg made a centuries long career of transporting up to the Maghribíya and its Maghribíyan ports.

"We also find significant signatures of sub-Saharan African ancestry that vary substantially among populations. These sub-Saharan ancestries appear to be a recent introduction into North African populations, dating to about 1,200 years ago in southern Morocco and about 750 years ago into Egypt, possibly reflecting the patterns of the trans-Saharan slave trade that occurred during this period."

“Africa”

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Oakland

#13208 Feb 15, 2013
BWL AE is back wrote:
More actual MOOR quotes-
Ibn Battuta-
Of the neighbors of the Bujja, Maqdisi had heard that "there is no marriage among them; the child does not know his father, and they eat people -- but God knows best. As for the Zanj, they are people of black color, flat noses, kinky hair, and little understanding or intelligence
Ibn Battuta, A.D. 1331 "The geographer al-Idrisi ascribes 'lack of knowledge and defective minds' to the black peoples. Their ignorance, he says, is notorious; men of learning and distinction are almost unknown among them, and their kings only acquire what they know about government and justice from the instruction of learned visitors from farther north."
Ibn Battuta, 14th century "Like the crow among mankind are the Zanj for they are the worst of men and the most vicious of creatures in character and temperament."
Ibn Battuta, 14th century "[inhabitants of sub-Saharan African countries] are people distant from the standards of humanity" "Their nature is that of wild animals...."
Ibn Battuta, 14th century "We know that the Zanj (blacks) are the least intelligent and the least discerning of mankind, and the least capable of understanding the consequences of actions."
Ibn Battuta, 14th century "Galen says that merriment dominates the black man because of his defective brain, whence also the weakness of his intelligence."
Ibn Battuta, 14th century "As regards southern countries, all their inhabitants are black on account of the heat of their climate... Most of them go naked... In all their lands and provinces, gold is found.... They are people distant from the standards of humanity."
Ibn Battuta, 14th century, writing about Mali About the Zanj: "Their nature is that of wild animals. They are extremely black." About the Sudan: "Among themselves there are people who steal each other's children and sell them to the merchants when the latter arrive."
Ibn Battuta, 14th century "If (all types of men) are taken, from the first, and one placed after another, like the Negro from Zanzibar, in the Southern-most countries, the Negro does not differ from an animal in anything except the fact that his hands have been lifted from the earth,--in no other peculiarity or property,--except for what God wished. Many have seen that the ape is more capable of being trained than the Negro, and more intelligent."
Ibn Battuta, A.D. 1331 "Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because [Negroes] have little [that is essentially] human and have attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated."
Ibn Khaldun,_Muqaddimah_ "There came to sultan Mansa Sulaiman (of the Mali empire) a group of these blacks who eat human beings
Ibn Khaldun, 1400-To the south of this...there is a Negro people called Lamlam. They are unbelievers. They brand themselves on the face and temples. The people of Ghanah and Takrur invade their country, capture them, and sell them to merchants who transport them to the Maghrib. There, they constitute the ordinary mass of slaves. Beyond them to the south, there is no civilization in the proper sense. There are only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings. They live in thickets and caves and eat herbs and unprepared grain. They frequently eat each other. They cannot be considered human beings.
Ibn Khaldun,1400-We have seen that Negroes are in general characterized by levity[Defined as: behaviour intended to be amusing and not being serious], excitability, and great emotionalism. They are found eager to dance whenever they hear a melody. They are everywhere described as stupid." [pp 63]
Ibn Battuta never said any of that crap.

“Africa”

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Oakland

#13209 Feb 15, 2013
Curious Me wrote:
http://www.humanphenotypes.com/NorthAethiopid...
Even the "North Aethiopid" which is associated with the Beja , Hadendowa, Tigre and similar people,
and is said to be the origin of the "Saharan Tuareg" are "Mostly Caucasoid with only very few Nég®öïd elements".
http://www.humanphenotypes.com/SouthSaharid.h...
There's also the "South Saharid" type, of which there aren't very many, as they are strictly from the Saharan Desert which is very sparsely populated.
Those "South Saharid" Peoples are "Predominantely Caucasoid, but with visible Nég®öïd influences".
Here you go again with this eurocentric terminology garbage.

Ethiopians are not "predominantly caucasoid", they are predominantly SUB SAHARAN African; Black.
Barros Serrano

United States

#13210 Feb 15, 2013
KiloEcho wrote:
Barros Serrano
The eurasian component is from the original Eurasians who migrated in 30k, 10k and 7k years ago, fool.
Notice that the most remote Berbers, up in the mts, are the “whitest”...
How stupid you wankers are.
Here you are posting in the presence of several well-educated persons, including myself, and yet you persist in babbling this nonsense.
Truly your self-hatred runs very deep
KiloEcho replies
The most remote Berbers, up in the mountains, are the whitest. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
This is ridiculous statement.
They live far away in the mountains and so what?
They cannot have dark brown skinned ancestors?!!! Many octoroons can have the whitest skin and yet they have Black ancestors
They cannot be former European slaves who took refuge in the Atlas mountains in order to escape from White slavery at the hands of dark brown skinned Moors?!!!
They cannot be the descendents of European INVADERS who just happened to like living in the Mountains?!!!
DNA studies have proven that even the whitest looking Berber up in the Atlas Mountains has a distant East African male ancestor through their paternal e1b somalid haplogroup.
There were no indigenous "Eurasians"in Africa, including North Africa
Africa is also known as the Dark Continent, El Continente Negro, le Continent Noir because of the dark brown skin color of its indigenous inhabitants.
Dark brown North Africa became lighter and lighter over time because of thousands of years of White slavery, White settlements and White invasions and NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
Indigenous North Africans look no different than mulattoes, quadroons, octoroons because they are the mixed offspring of the indigenous dark brown skinned Africans and Eurasian or Western Asian slaves, invaders and settlers.
You are babbling nonsense with your imaginary Eurasian North Africa 30k years ago
Being remote would make them far more likely to represent the original type. This is true anywhere. The older types are in the remote regions. Like in the most remote and inhospitable parts of southern Africa, who was living? Khoisan. I could cite examples from all over the world. The most archaic types in America remained in Tierra del Fuego and the remotest parts of the Amazon, Gran Chaco, etc. The oldest European genes and language are in the Pyrenees Mts., islands, and the far north.

There was an extensive trade of black slaves conducted by the Tuareg across the desert to the Maghreb. When you pretend that the Berbers look “white” because of white slaves, you ignore that those who look “black” are so because of black slaves!

Your narrative is fantasy. There was not an original black population in the Maghreb which was turned white. The evidence if clear, which you all must ignore to maintain your fantasy:

1. DNA and human remains for 30,000 years show Eurasian types, of Mideastern and European origin, in the Maghreb, with black northeast African admixture after 20,000 years ago.
2. Ancient depictions by Egyptians, Phoenicians, Greeks and Romans show Berbers as Eurasian types.
3. Medieval Iberian depictions of Moors show them as mostly Eurasian types.
4. Moorish DNA left in Iberia is typical of Eurasian-looking Berbers.
5. The Guanches for 6000 years isolated on the Canaries, have DNA equal to Maghrebians 6000 years ago, and it is Eurasian.
6. The Moors mostly came from and returned to the same areas in Morocco and Algeria. The people there today are their descendants, with no change in the composition of the population. Their DNA is of the old Berber type, not the type of white slaves. They mostly appear as Mediterraneans, Eurasians, not blacks.
7. In Spain today, the word “moro” means a non-black Moroccan, not a black African.

You can post some heraldic cartoon of a blackamoor, but a rational approach requires that you deal with this evidence. Not simply ignore it and post more blackamoor parlor paintings from the 17th century!
BWL AE is back

Corpus Christi, TX

#13211 Feb 15, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
Ibn Battuta never said any of that crap.
You are wrong and right....The page where the quotes are located is all screwed up...but make no mistake, my friend, these are true quotes recored through history buy not only your arab masters but actual moors also....

Look them up yourself
Barros Serrano

United States

#13212 Feb 15, 2013
trollslayer wrote:
trollslayer wrote:
Nazlet Khater man was the earliest modern human skeleton found near Luxor, in 1980. The remains was dated from between 35,000 and 30,000 years ago.
The report regarding the racial affinity of this skeleton concludes: "Strong alveolar prognathism combined with fossa praenasalis in an African skull is suggestive of [email protected] morphology [form & structure]. The radio-humeral index of Nazlet Khater is practically the same as the mean of Taforalt (76.6). According to Ferembach (1965) this value is near to the [email protected] average.
" The burial was of a young man of 17-20 years old, whose skeleton lay in a 160cm- long narrow ditch aligned from east to west. A flint tool, which was laid carefully on the bottom of the grave, dates the burial as contemporaneous with a nearby flint quarry. The morphological features of the Nazlet Khater skeleton were analysed by Thoma (1984).
The 35,000 year old skeleton was examined using multivariate statistical procedures. In the first part, principal components analysis is performed on a dataset of mandible dimensions of 220 fossils, sub-fossils and modern specimens, ranging in time from the Late Pleistocene to recent and restricted in space to the African continent and Southern Levant.---Thoma A., Morphology and Affinities of the Nazlet Khater Man; Journal of Human Evolution, vol. 13, 1984
__________
if we look around N. Africa I'm sure we will find more examples of others like Nazlet Khater man.
I'm sure you have no idea what will be found. So far, the evidence in the Maghreb indicates a Eurasian-descended population for 30,000 years.

Your data there refers to the Nile Valley, and therefore is as irrelevant as you are, clown.

“DANGER!!”

Level 8

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#13213 Feb 15, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
Here you go again with this eurocentric terminology garbage.
Ethiopians are not "predominantly caucasoid", they are predominantly SUB SAHARAN African; Black.
Well, yeah, but so what!?

I never said that they were "White".

I don't believe in using that terminology for Caucasians anyway.

Also, many true Aethiopids like to refer to themselves as being 'Black Caucasoid'.

Check out what this Aethiopid says about his Ethiopians on this Ethiopian thread...

http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/T5P3OKNJD8IJI...

“DANGER!!”

Level 8

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#13214 Feb 15, 2013

“Africa”

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Oakland

#13215 Feb 15, 2013
BWL AE is back wrote:
<quoted text>
You are wrong and right....The page where the quotes are located is all screwed up...but make no mistake, my friend, these are true quotes recored through history buy not only your arab masters but actual moors also....
Look them up yourself
I don't have any Arab masters, and no, I'm not "wrong and right", I'm just right.

Ibn Battuta never said any of that mess. He, unlike all those other people who never stepped foot in Sub Saharan Africa, and was generally impressed.

Those other people, who are mostly non-African and had never even ventured in Sudan Africa like Battuta, were just operating off of hearsay, and, like the later Europeans, just trying to justify slavery of Blacks by painting them in a bad light.

“Africa”

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Oakland

#13216 Feb 15, 2013
Curious Me wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, yeah, but so what!?
I never said that they were "White".
I don't believe in using that terminology for Caucasians anyway.
Also, many true Aethiopids like to refer to themselves as being 'Black Caucasoid'.
Check out what this Aethiopid says about his Ethiopians on this Ethiopian thread...
http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/T5P3OKNJD8IJI...
There are Bantu Swahili people who swear up and down they're "Persian".

Never been to Persia, weren't born there, and look about as "Persian" as Wesley Snipes does, but they're "Persian".

You also have Igbo who claim they're Israelites. Hell, you have AA's who claim that the slave trade was a hoax!

What these people want to label themselves as is up to them, ultimately, I suppose, but Ethiopians are mostly indigenous sub Saharan descent, along with the rest of Black Africa.

“DANGER!!”

Level 8

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#13217 Feb 15, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
Ibn Battuta never said any of that crap.
Yes and no.

The poster attributed most or all of that stuff to just "Ibn Khaldun" and to "Ibn Battuta" but it was actually said by others who were in the Maghrib or some other part of Africa at about that same time period...e.g.;

"Ibn Battuta, 14th century[did not say] "Like the crow among mankind are the Zanj for they are the worst of men and the most vicious of creatures in character and temperament."...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanj#Arab_views_...

Al Jahiz was the only dissenter but that is because he was the only one being embattled since his own father was a Bantu slave.

I'd like to take the ~HIGH~ road and say that it wasn't me who said all those nasty things and even though those were the comments of accredited chroniclers, it still does not necessarily mean that things were exactly so but it still is far more credible than a bunch of foolish nicknacks and 18th century Orientalist fantasy artwork.

“DANGER!!”

Level 8

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#13218 Feb 15, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
There are Bantu Swahili people who swear up and down they're "Persian".
Never been to Persia, weren't born there, and look about as "Persian" as Wesley Snipes does, but they're "Persian".
You also have Igbo who claim they're Israelites. Hell, you have AA's who claim that the slave trade was a hoax!
What these people want to label themselves as is up to them, ultimately, I suppose, but Ethiopians are mostly indigenous sub Saharan descent, along with the rest of Black Africa.
Dude, their major male haplogroup originated in North Africa and some anthropologists even suspect that it originated in the Near East.

They evolved in North Africa and the Near East for at least 10 to 14 thousand years without any sub-Saharan females BEFORE they ever migrated down into sub-Saharan Africa.

The Central African 'R1b1c4' evolved, while in Central sub-Saharan Africa, from 'West Asian' Caucasoid into sub-Saharan Negroïd in about that same framework of time.

“Africa”

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Oakland

#13219 Feb 15, 2013
Curious Me wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude, their major male haplogroup originated in North Africa and some anthropologists even suspect that it originated in the Near East.
They evolved in North Africa and the Near East for at least 10 to 14 thousand years without any sub-Saharan females BEFORE they ever migrated down into sub-Saharan Africa.
The Central African 'R1b1c4' evolved, while in Central sub-Saharan Africa, from 'West Asian' Caucasoid into sub-Saharan Negroïd in about that same framework of time.
I'm not sure what that last sentence was about, but Ethiopians are mostly E paternally and L maternally.

Most of their E emerges in East Africa.

Tiskoff noted that Ethiopians belong predominantly to the "Cushitic Cluster", which of course, would be Sub Saharan in origin.

“DANGER!!”

Level 8

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#13220 Feb 15, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure what that last sentence was about, but Ethiopians are mostly E paternally and L maternally.
Most of their E emerges in East Africa.
Tiskoff noted that Ethiopians belong predominantly to the "Cushitic Cluster", which of course, would be Sub Saharan in origin.
Don't look now but the "Cushitic cluster" is in reference to a language.

Most anthropologists regardless of whomever else they'd also like to include concede that at minimum those 'E-M87'Y-Hg clades are transitional between being Caucasian and some other unique classification and not necessarily to be referred to as simply sub-Saharan African.

I actually argued against this with some other poster that went by the name of "Beautiful Black Woman" or some such name, but that was before I truly understood what it was that she was trying to get at.

There is only one real "TRUTH", but sometimes when we're arguing about stuff that we have yet to discover all and completely, we can only sincerely argue using only those FACETS of the truth which we have personally discovered.

When we get all the facets to fit together we will discover that they converge at a point.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

African-American Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 2 min USAsince1680 1,599,547
Black folk who are praising and supporting n korea 7 min Ugly monkeys 13
St.Louis chimpout continues! Why Negroes must a... 10 min Trump is great 5
Is it right to arrest robbers? Should burglars ... 12 min Paul 40
Why can't Blacks answer these questions? 20 min Paul 38
Black men love big butted black women 20 min LMR 7
White Women Are Too Ugly 30 min Paul 10
Do African Americans listen to the 'Beatles'? (Apr '08) 1 hr vbs 339
Why do white women enjoy anal sex so much? (Mar '11) 10 hr FireFellow44 355
Do black men really have larger penises? (Sep '10) 13 hr vbs 1,574
More from around the web