the moors were black africans not ara...
ShawnCutisLacey

San Antonio, TX

#24096 Mar 23, 2014
Well, I am glad to see folk talking about the Moors, whose ethnicity keeps changing depending on who is doing the lecturing. The basis truth is that the Moors have absolutely nothing to do with ANYTHING REMOTELY middle eastern. Shakespeare knew what a Moor was during his day. The Germans knew what a Moor was because that is what they called Beethoven back then! That European looking picture of Beethoven is not the same as the light brown skinned man with the fuzzy hair of his day. Be that as it may, when the Arabs came to Africa around 336 A.D, they did as much as the white man and tried to redo history by stealing African/Black history and make it theirs. How can you come to an area that already has established groups then call it your history? The Moors, Berber, Fulani, Mandingo have lived in that area as an all black Africa. You hear the word Berber throughout N. Africa but the Arabs try to claim it as their ancestral land. Berbers and Moors were tribal in the area we now know as Morocco. From Egypt to Morocco and a few other places, the Arabs have done everything to try and erase African history. They are the new kids on the blocks but want folk to think that they are Egyptians, Moors, and Berbers. I find it ironic when I am looking at a lot of African looking Moroccans, they are called Berbers. Well, their ancestry was already in place. Europe has played along on this because it helped demean the glorious history of the African, which everyone claims.
Sankofa

Newark, NJ

#24097 Mar 23, 2014
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>All humans in the world originated from different hominids! There have been thousands of different hominid skeletons found everywhere, just like these Asian hominids:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Deer_Cave_people
Hominids found in the Middle East:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skhul_and_Qafzeh_homini...


All humans share African DNA, MODERN EAST AFRICANS, get it? No other hominid is a common ancestor to the entire race. Where are Skhul/Qafzeh from? Where does Neanderthal originate? When will you give this up?
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#24098 Mar 23, 2014
Sankofa wrote:
<quoted text>
All humans share African DNA, MODERN EAST AFRICANS, get it? No other hominid is a common ancestor to the entire race. Where are Skhul/Qafzeh from? Where does Neanderthal originate? When will you give this up?
I never said they werent from Africa get it????All hominds came from Africa and the neanderthal came out of Africa 800000 years ago! BUT........they evolved differently and began to change once they were out of Africa! After hundreds and thousands of years of living in freezing Europe (it was a lot colder than it is now) their skins turned white and they became hairy! Hominids coming out of Africa would have met the very white hairy neanderthal! Like some of the Skhul,Qafzeh Hominids who interbred with the neanderthal!
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#24099 Mar 23, 2014
tina wrote:
<quoted text>
so I see you never responded to why america looks the way it does...
Um.....I dont know what America looks like, Im NO in America!
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#24100 Mar 23, 2014
tina wrote:
<quoted text>
not as old as the 1985 sh!t you posted lol...you are a classic hippocrite
Um.....well most of the modern ones say the same thing!!!!! Youre a hypocrite who cant spell! lol
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#24101 Mar 23, 2014
ShawnCutisLacey wrote:
Well, I am glad to see folk talking about the Moors, whose ethnicity keeps changing depending on who is doing the lecturing. The basis truth is that the Moors have absolutely nothing to do with ANYTHING REMOTELY middle eastern. Shakespeare knew what a Moor was during his day. The Germans knew what a Moor was because that is what they called Beethoven back then! That European looking picture of Beethoven is not the same as the light brown skinned man with the fuzzy hair of his day. Be that as it may, when the Arabs came to Africa around 336 A.D, they did as much as the white man and tried to redo history by stealing African/Black history and make it theirs. How can you come to an area that already has established groups then call it your history? The Moors, Berber, Fulani, Mandingo have lived in that area as an all black Africa. You hear the word Berber throughout N. Africa but the Arabs try to claim it as their ancestral land. Berbers and Moors were tribal in the area we now know as Morocco. From Egypt to Morocco and a few other places, the Arabs have done everything to try and erase African history. They are the new kids on the blocks but want folk to think that they are Egyptians, Moors, and Berbers. I find it ironic when I am looking at a lot of African looking Moroccans, they are called Berbers. Well, their ancestry was already in place. Europe has played along on this because it helped demean the glorious history of the African, which everyone claims.
Um...the Moors who conquered Spain were MAJORITY WHITE and still ARE! How did the pitch black Moors turn white in 400 years?????Maghrebi people carry Haplogroup J whether you like it or not!

Level 5

Since: Sep 12

Kinshasa, Congo, The Democratic Republic of the

#24102 Mar 24, 2014
African AE said

I never said they werent from Africa get it????All hominds came from Africa and the neanderthal came out of Africa 800000 years ago! BUT........they evolved differently and began to change once they were out of Africa!

KiloEcho replies

Over the last century, great historical findings have shown an AFRICAN CREATION/CONTRIBUTION TO MANY OF THE WORLD'S FIRST CIVILIZATIONS or better an African connection to the WORLD FIRST HUMANS.

-Such has been the case in Egypt, Mesopotamia, India, Moorish Spain, Shang and Shia China and Mexico.

-Such has been the case in Ethiopia, with Lucy or Chad with Toomai.

-Such has been the case of the African origin of the E haplogroup and all of its subclades, including the e1b1b also found among Europeans and Asians.

Euro-centrists continue to deny all those findings through propaganda techniques like accusing us all of Afrocentrism or reclassifying black skinned populations of Africa or Asia as dark brown Caucasians closer to Europeans than Sub-Saharan Africans.

Denying the obvious and solid evidence will not make the truth go away. It will only reinforce that Euro-centrist historians, scientists, archeologists have been covering up the truth FOR CENTURIES as part of the White supremacy propaganda
----------
The Chinese are of African descent.

New Genetics Evidence Proves African Origin of Modern Chinese

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200007/15/e...

This latest research finding by Chinese scientists and their international colleagues concluded that modern humans might have moved from Africa to China replacing Mono erectus (archaic upright- walking human beings) there to become the ancestors of the country 's modern humans.

The conclusion is based on the comparison and analysis of Y- chromosome DNA using samples of the extant 88 populations living in East Asia, Southeast Asia and the Oceania, says Li Jin, one of the Chinese researchers of the study "Chinese Human Genome Diversity Project."

Li Jin is a professor of both the National Human Genome Center in Shanghai and the Institute of Genetics of Fudan University.

--------
China is located thousands of miles from Africa

Yet, Chinese scholars aknowledge the African origin of modern Chinese.

Europe and Africa share sea as well as land borders (the Spanish enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla)

Europe and Africa are separated by less than 15 km at the Gibraltar Straights.

Europe and Africa have exchanged genes as well as periods of brilliance and dominance.

Eurocentrists continue to deny the African origin of modern Europeans despite countless of archeological findings, and DNA studies, countless of traditions like the Moor's heads on blazons of familiy whose names contain the word moor or its derivatives like the Morandi of Itali, the Mauriac of France, the Morrison of England etc.

Eurocentrists continue to deny that 1/3 of Europeans are the direct descendants of Africans who came to Europe in many capacities and passed down their genes (e1b1b) and genetic diseases (sickle cell of Benin type found among Sicilians) to millions of their European descendants.

Eurocentrists continue to deny that during various chapters of European history, there were Africans at the highest levels of European society as rulers, saints, colonizers, conquerors and civilizers etc.

The Formorians, sea kings from North Africa and descendants of Ham, ruled over Northern Europe for ages. They have been converted into mythical creatures. Yet, the former name of Norway was Formoria. No coincidence here.

Gormund, the King of Africans, who ruled over Ireland is a mythical figure NOW that never ever existed. There is a famous Gormund Gate in Dublin. No coincidence here.

The list goes on and on.
Citizen 1986

UK

#24103 Mar 24, 2014
Garrig wrote:
<quoted text>
"Blackmoor is about black people are you trying to tell me they forgot how the moors looked in just 200 years or all the moors suddenly disappered from Europe."
Disppeared from Europe?? What a loaded statement. For the most part the Moors were only in Spain and Portugal. Not Switzerland or Germany for crying out loud.
" Do you think people here are stupid.
I can not show you pictures of rulers in spain because they never painted themselves."
But the Spanish who were invaded by the Moors DID MAKE MANY DEPICTIONS OF THEM AND MOST OF THOSE DO NOT SHOW BLACK PEOPLE, FOOL! Now would you like to explain why that is?
Why should we choose to regard some fanciful 18th century art from Northern Europe as examples of what the Moors really looked like?? Thats going a bt out of the way, isn't it?
"Your claim is because they have admixture means they arent black."
I never said that. They were some Blacks but most were Mediterranean looking peoples.
"All the statues or pictures you posted are people who look like Africans i dont see how they look white to you."
Yeah sure, yet in most cases you couldn't tell them apart from an ordinary Spainiard, liar.
This is a wall painting from the Alhambra moorish placace in Granada.
http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy91/nt_14...
Very African looking, aren't they?? NOW BEGONE!
The picture you posted are of white muslims in Granada i know you are not that dense. Or you believe because the Moors were in Europe the whole population would turn black.

What are the many depictions you are yet to post all this pictures. All you post are pictures with no dates or tittles. What is the tittle of that piece of Artwork and what year was it dated. Your black a moor arguement is baseless because we have presented many eyes witness accounts describing them as black. There is no connection with black a moor and the moors that conquered spain and the silly picture you put up.

The moors left spain and went to other places in Europe and there were moors in other places in Europe during the time the Moors were in Spain.I didnt insult you so no need for name calling. I have tried my best to be objective. You show white people on walls wearing turbans does that mean they came from Africa or were part of the ruling dynasties. The meaning of a moor is a black man so any black man no matter were they lived was always called a moor. They didnt need to meet them in spain because black people were all over Europe. Is the explanation simple enough for you.
I dont know your problem but let me clarify my point. The people who conquered spain had different dynasties that came from North and West Africa. This doesnt mean other groups in spain were left out. What we have is any group of people who identified as muslims being called a Moor in spain.There were white and black moors no one said they were exclusively black. But for you to say the black Africans from North and West Africa were a minority or insignificant is all BS. The ruling elites would have been black people as a majority because they always came from Africa with their own army.

Why should we choose to regard some fanciful 18th century art from Northern Europe as examples of what the Moors really looked like?? Thats going a bt out of the way, isn't it?
"Your claim is because they have admixture means they arent black."
I never said that. They were some Blacks but most were Mediterranean looking peoples.

You are the one relying on fanciful pictures people here dont even use it. You are the one bringing it up as a point when no one here cares about it. Read what people post dont just argue blindly. Mediterranean looking people would you consider a man from Somalia mediterranean looking . As i have said look into the different dynasties and the tribes they came from then youll have your answer

Level 5

Since: Sep 12

Kinshasa, Congo, The Democratic Republic of the

#24105 Mar 24, 2014
African AE said

Um...the Moors who conquered Spain were MAJORITY WHITE and still ARE! How did the pitch black Moors turn white in 400 years?????Maghrebi people carry Haplogroup J whether you like it or not!

KiloEcho replies

You must suffer from a reading disability

How many times do we have to tell you that the word moor acquired a racial connotation for very dark or black skinned people across ancient and medieval Europe?

Mauritania was the land of the Mauri or the black or blackish ones.
----------

http://bridgingcultures.neh.gov/muslimjourney...

Moors' from Oxford Islamic Studies Online

ABOUT THIS RESOURCE

This article explains the term "Moor" as background to Menocal's Ornament of the World and Maalouf's Leo Africanus.

The article by David Assouline is reprinted from The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Islamic World in the Oxford Islamic Studies Online.

ORIGIN AND DEVELOPMENT OF THE TERM.

The origins of the term remain elusive. Its derivation from the Semitic etymon mahourím,“people of the West,” is questionable, and the Arabic al-Mar is extremely rare and does not occur in Andalusi Arabic sources.

Mauroi is late Greek and may have been derived from the Latin ethnic name Mauri, both meaning “dark ones.”

Following the destruction of Carthage in 146 B.C.E., the term mauri was used to indicate the tribes inhabiting the Roman provinces of Mauretania, corresponding to modern-day western Algeria and northeastern Morocco.

In the Latin Middle Ages, Mauri referred to a mixture of Berbers and Arabs inhabiting the coastal regions of Northwest Africa. In Spain, Portugal, and Italy, Mauri became Moros (Maures in French).

More commonly, HOWEVER, it was a racial designation for dark-skinned or black peoples, as in its English usage, which is seen as early as the fourteenth century.
----------
In the etymological dictionary of the French language by” Gilles Ménage (xvii century) More is defined as black or blackish man.

About the Moors of Spain we read in the same dictionary, we have called Moors or Moorish Arabs who conquered Spain because they came from Mauritania, that is to say the land of black or blackish men

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6360787...
-------

Dieu, l'homme et la parole, ou La langue primitive par J. Azaïs, père (1778-1856)

MAURE, nom d'un peuple dont la peau est noire; Moor: the name of a people whose skin is black.

morou languedocien, mourou provençal, maurus lalin, mor, moren langue romane, morien vieux français, moro catalan, moro espagnol, mouro portugais, moro italien, maour, mauryan bas-breton, mohr allemand, moor anglais, moor hollandais, mohr danois, mor suédois, mour, maar, brûler, hébreu.

Le More est noir, c'est-à dire de la couleur d'une chose brûlée.
----------
The word moor was used across ancient and medieval Europe for people of darker skin color, HISTORICALLY for Ethiopians, Egyptians and Berbers and LATER generalized for all black skinned Africans.

Ethiopia was known as the Lands of the Moors in the Middle Ages
.
The word Moor IS AN EARLY ENGLISH TERM FOR [email protected] and was used a synonym for [email protected] during the Middle Ages (and even before); the same for its equivalents in other European languages (German Mohr or Polish Murzyn)

Biologist John Baker (1974) explains: The association of dark skin with the name of 'Moors' resulted eventually in the same term being applied to [email protected]"

Ignoring the etymology of the word moor makes history illiterate.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php...
Moor (n.)

BEING A DARK PEOPLE IN RELATION TO EUROPEANS, THEIR NAME IN THE MIDDLE AGES WAS A SYNONYM FOR [email protected];

LATER (16c.-17c.) used indiscriminately of Muslims (Persians, Arabs, etc.) but especially those in India.
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#24108 Mar 24, 2014
KiloEcho wrote:
African AE said
I never said they werent from Africa get it????All hominds came from Africa and the neanderthal came out of Africa 800000 years ago! BUT........they evolved differently and began to change once they were out of Africa!
KiloEcho replies
Over the last century, great historical findings have shown an AFRICAN CREATION/CONTRIBUTION TO MANY OF THE WORLD'S FIRST CIVILIZATIONS or better an African connection to the WORLD FIRST HUMANS.
-Such has been the case in Egypt, Mesopotamia, India, Moorish Spain, Shang and Shia China and Mexico.
-Such has been the case in Ethiopia, with Lucy or Chad with Toomai.
-Such has been the case of the African origin of the E haplogroup and all of its subclades, including the e1b1b also found among Europeans and Asians.
Euro-centrists continue to deny all those findings through propaganda techniques like accusing us all of Afrocentrism or reclassifying black skinned populations of Africa or Asia as dark brown Caucasians closer to Europeans than Sub-Saharan Africans.
Denying the obvious and solid evidence will not make the truth go away. It will only reinforce that Euro-centrist historians, scientists, archeologists have been covering up the truth FOR CENTURIES as part of the White supremacy propaganda
----------
The Chinese are of African descent.
New Genetics Evidence Proves African Origin of Modern Chinese
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200007/15/e...
This latest research finding by Chinese scientists and their international colleagues concluded that modern humans might have moved from Africa to China replacing Mono erectus (archaic upright- walking human beings) there to become the ancestors of the country 's modern humans.
The conclusion is based on the comparison and analysis of Y- chromosome DNA using samples of the extant 88 populations living in East Asia, Southeast Asia and the Oceania, says Li Jin, one of the Chinese researchers of the study "Chinese Human Genome Diversity Project."
Li Jin is a professor of both the National Human Genome Center in Shanghai and the Institute of Genetics of Fudan University.
--------
China is located thousands of miles from Africa
Yet, Chinese scholars aknowledge the African origin of modern Chinese.
Europe and Africa share sea as well as land borders (the Spanish enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla)
Europe and Africa are separated by less than 15 km at the Gibraltar Straights.
Europe and Africa have exchanged genes as well as periods of brilliance and dominance.
Eurocentrists continue to deny the African origin of modern Europeans despite countless of archeological findings, and DNA studies, countless of traditions like the Moor's heads on blazons of familiy whose names contain the word moor or its derivatives like the Morandi of Itali, the Mauriac of France, the Morrison of England etc.
Eurocentrists continue to deny that 1/3 of Europeans are the direct descendants of Africans who came to Europe in many capacities and passed down their genes (e1b1b) and genetic diseases (sickle cell of Benin type found among Sicilians) to millions of their European descendants.
Eurocentrists continue to deny that during various chapters of European history, there were Africans at the highest levels of European society as rulers, saints, colonizers, conquerors and civilizers etc.
The Formorians, sea kings from North Africa and descendants of Ham, ruled over Northern Europe for ages. They have been converted into mythical creatures. Yet, the former name of Norway was Formoria. No coincidence here.
Gormund, the King of Africans, who ruled over Ireland is a mythical figure NOW that never ever existed. There is a famous Gormund Gate in Dublin. No coincidence here.
The list goes on and on.
AFRONAZI RUBBISH!!!! FORMORIANS WERE BASED ON MYTHS! GORMUND is based on King Arthur and the round table! Which is also a MYTH!!!!!
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#24109 Mar 24, 2014
MAURETANIA was ORIGINALLY MOROCCO AND ALGERIA!!!!
MOOR COMES FROM MAURETANIA
www.spanish-web.com/history/moors.php
Modern and ancient Moorish leaders:
www.histoiredumaroc.com
They probably looked EXACTLY LIKE THE MOORS WHO CONQUERED SPAIN!
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#24110 Mar 24, 2014
KiloEcho wrote:
African AE said
I never said they werent from Africa get it????All hominds came from Africa and the neanderthal came out of Africa 800000 years ago! BUT........they evolved differently and began to change once they were out of Africa!
KiloEcho replies
Over the last century, great historical findings have shown an AFRICAN CREATION/CONTRIBUTION TO MANY OF THE WORLD'S FIRST CIVILIZATIONS or better an African connection to the WORLD FIRST HUMANS.
-Such has been the case in Egypt, Mesopotamia, India, Moorish Spain, Shang and Shia China and Mexico.
-Such has been the case in Ethiopia, with Lucy or Chad with Toomai.
-Such has been the case of the African origin of the E haplogroup and all of its subclades, including the e1b1b also found among Europeans and Asians.
Euro-centrists continue to deny all those findings through propaganda techniques like accusing us all of Afrocentrism or reclassifying black skinned populations of Africa or Asia as dark brown Caucasians closer to Europeans than Sub-Saharan Africans.
Denying the obvious and solid evidence will not make the truth go away. It will only reinforce that Euro-centrist historians, scientists, archeologists have been covering up the truth FOR CENTURIES as part of the White supremacy propaganda
----------
The Chinese are of African descent.
New Genetics Evidence Proves African Origin of Modern Chinese
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200007/15/e...
This latest research finding by Chinese scientists and their international colleagues concluded that modern humans might have moved from Africa to China replacing Mono erectus (archaic upright- walking human beings) there to become the ancestors of the country 's modern humans.
The conclusion is based on the comparison and analysis of Y- chromosome DNA using samples of the extant 88 populations living in East Asia, Southeast Asia and the Oceania, says Li Jin, one of the Chinese researchers of the study "Chinese Human Genome Diversity Project."
Li Jin is a professor of both the National Human Genome Center in Shanghai and the Institute of Genetics of Fudan University.
--------
China is located thousands of miles from Africa
Yet, Chinese scholars aknowledge the African origin of modern Chinese.
Europe and Africa share sea as well as land borders (the Spanish enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla)
Europe and Africa are separated by less than 15 km at the Gibraltar Straights.
Europe and Africa have exchanged genes as well as periods of brilliance and dominance.
Eurocentrists continue to deny the African origin of modern Europeans despite countless of archeological findings, and DNA studies, countless of traditions like the Moor's heads on blazons of familiy whose names contain the word moor or its derivatives like the Morandi of Itali, the Mauriac of France, the Morrison of England etc.
Eurocentrists continue to deny that 1/3 of Europeans are the direct descendants of Africans who came to Europe in many capacities and passed down their genes (e1b1b) and genetic diseases (sickle cell of Benin type found among Sicilians) to millions of their European descendants.
Eurocentrists continue to deny that during various chapters of European history, there were Africans at the highest levels of European society as rulers, saints, colonizers, conquerors and civilizers etc.
The Formorians, sea kings from North Africa and descendants of Ham, ruled over Northern Europe for ages. They have been converted into mythical creatures. Yet, the former name of Norway was Formoria. No coincidence here.
Gormund, the King of Africans, who ruled over Ireland is a mythical figure NOW that never ever existed. There is a famous Gormund Gate in Dublin. No coincidence here.
The list goes on and on.
A subclave of Haplogroup E1b1b came from the Middle East into Europe LIAR! Haplogroup E1b1a is black African and Europeans LOOK NOTHING LIKE BLACK AFRICANS! No Africans EVER RULED EUROPE!
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#24111 Mar 24, 2014
Where are these hundreds of African nations skeletons who supposedly ruled Europe???? WHERE IS YOUR PHYSICAL PROOF?????? Cant find any????? Did neanderthals eat up their bones??????????Afronazis alway shout off their mouths BUT NEVER HAVE ANY PHYSICAL PROOF!!!!!!!!!!Also NORTHERN EUROPEANS HAVE NO AFRICAN DNA AT ALL!!!!!
dreamhunk

Calgary, Canada

#24112 Mar 24, 2014
Blackamoor (n.) Look up Blackamoor at Dictionary.com
"dark-skinned person," 1540s, from black (adj.)+ Moor, with connecting element.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php...

Level 5

Since: Sep 12

Kinshasa, Congo, The Democratic Republic of the

#24113 Mar 24, 2014
African AE said

A subclave of Haplogroup E1b1b came from the Middle East into Europe LIAR!

Haplogroup E1b1a is black African

and Europeans LOOK NOTHING LIKE BLACK AFRICANS!

No Africans EVER RULED EUROPE!

KiloEcho replies

Falsifying history or lying about the past is one of the easiest way to take over the world and maintain world dominance after centuries in the Dark Ages.

European false sense of racial superiority over black skinned Africans started in 1492 when Europeans finally defeated Muslim Moors (Muslims of North West-East and Saharan Africa and their Arab allies).

Thousands were expelled from Europe back to Africa along with their mixed offspring called Moriscoes. The most unfortunate of Muslim Moors were enslaved and sent to America in chains.

The same year, Christopher Columbus "discovered" America--which is a lie since there had already contacts between Native Americans and Europeans before 1492 as the Americas are depicted on European maps before 1492.

Europeans began to feel that they were invincible even though regions of Europe were still under Ottoman rule (Greece, Romania etc.)

Europeans launched a world conquest. They became new conquerors.

This is the trick with all new conquerors. They rewrite history and recreate themselves into a superior or civilizing race. They revise maps and falsify ancient cartography (The Ethiopic Ocean renamed South Atlantic Ocean a cover up for ancient maritime routes used by Africans)

They use all the propaganda tools available to justify their world conquest and maintain world dominance.

In the case of Europeans, they use racism: racist media, racist academia, racist cinema, and racist interpretation of their sacred texts in order to paint other races as inferior or “uncivilized”
----------
Calling me a liar will not make the truth go away

E1b1a is black African gene and its PARENT SUBCLADE e1b1b is a non Black and non African gene. My foot!!!!

The e1b1b is the signature gene of indigenous North East and Saharan Africans who passed down their genes to millions of their descendants in Europe and Asia. They are also known as Hamites or Horners.

I have blood relatives who look completely White. No one will ever guess that they have Bantu relatives or ancestors. They are not White at all but quadroons, octoroons, that is diluted Africans.
---
You are in denial as usual. What you need is a complete brain wash with a strong detergent.

Africans excelled and ruled parts of Europe during various chapters of European history, whether you like or not.

No wonder Eurocentrists are too eager to induct North East and Saharan Africans, the original Moors, the e1b1b people, into the extended Caucasian family as a cover up for their golden age in Europe as saints, slave-masters, rulers, Roman emperors, popes etc.

You should read the excellent book written by a very White German historian Hans Werner Debrunner

Presence and Prestige: Africans in Europe : a History of Africans in Europe Before 1918

http://books.google.cd/books/about/Presence_a...

Level 5

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#24114 Mar 24, 2014
Sankofa wrote:
<quoted text>
As you know a word can have multiple definitions. The problem is you'd like a narrow view of race as you feel it supports your opinions. In actuality, race and terms like African and Eurasian are extremely broad and relate not only to facial features and genetic markers, but also to language, faith, and tradition. Heritage is more than what you see in the mirror. A history is more than can be deduced from blood tests. Berbers are African because they live in Africa and always have first of all. Secondly, their culture and genetic profile is heavily African and their links to the greater continent exist to this day as I've noted. Many Berbers are black even in a steretypical sense. "Sub-Saharan" lineage goes back far in North Africa, these terms are bias inherently. Race and the term "black" are social concepts. Whether or not being a mixed African makes you black is up to the individual. Is Alicia Keys black? Is Obama blacker? Was Michael Jackson black when he died? Are Aboriginese blacks or Asians? This really isn't scientific at all. You must mean the psuedo-scientific concept of race as any arbitrary lines you place between human populations beyond local adaptation and minimal interbreeding ARE IN FACT UNSCIENTIFIC. We are all related to a male living in Africa 70ka. The inability for people to see this has everything to do with cultural bias.
Yes Black is a social concept. I agree especially in the US. But are we supposed to overlok the fact that many of these Berbers look similar to southern Europeans who live on the other side of the Mediterranean? Is that just coincidence?

"Secondly, their culture and genetic profile is heavily African"

African markers make up only about half their profile. And then again these are markers North African markers that are common in certian parts of Europe. And I didn't know there was a monolithic African culture. That would be surprising as Africa is so vast.

But its all to obvious that the type of conncetion with the Berbers that you are arguing for is a very loose and vague. It's Chinese trying to claim Persian civilization because they both are on the Asian continent.

The bottom line is that when you a group of people who look similar to southern Europeans on the other side of the Mediterranean and who share the European heritage of having been part of the Roman empire, and seen Phoenician, Greek, Byzantines, Germainc and Arab influence, it makes more sense to lump them in with Mediterrean or Arab people rather than with people from say Ghana.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2011/1102/3...

And in Europe in places like France they are usually refered to as Arabs for this reason.

Level 5

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#24115 Mar 24, 2014
Sankofa wrote:
<quoted text>
My point had nothing to do with the indigenous cultures but instead was related to the future of the British and Spanish cultures that came to dominate these regions.
"Where do you see evidence that NA's are historically Eurasian when their paternal dna is African (This is significant given the makeup of ancient societies.), their cultural heritage is African and of course their home is Africa from now to then."
The question is straightforward.
When you said NA for some reason I thought you meant Native American. They have paternal African heritage from long long ago but if you know anything about genetics then you know that that in itself does not give any indication to the real genetic compostion of someone it only tells us where their great great great great gandfather came from, not all the other things they that have been mixed along the way.

Looking at these Algerians..

http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1297625195/158/465...

If we believe that their paternal ancetors were Black sub sharan Africans then I would say they have been heavily diluted over the years to where Eurasian phenotyical traits have now become dominant. In other words they are more Eusaian than African.

Level 5

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#24116 Mar 24, 2014
Citizen 1986 wrote:
<quoted text>
The picture you posted are of white muslims in Granada i know you are not that dense. Or you believe because the Moors were in Europe the whole population would turn black.
What are the many depictions you are yet to post all this pictures. All you post are pictures with no dates or tittles. What is the tittle of that piece of Artwork and what year was it dated. Your black a moor arguement is baseless because we have presented many eyes witness accounts describing them as black. There is no connection with black a moor and the moors that conquered spain and the silly picture you put up.
The moors left spain and went to other places in Europe and there were moors in other places in Europe during the time the Moors were in Spain.I didnt insult you so no need for name calling. I have tried my best to be objective. You show white people on walls wearing turbans does that mean they came from Africa or were part of the ruling dynasties. The meaning of a moor is a black man so any black man no matter were they lived was always called a moor. They didnt need to meet them in spain because black people were all over Europe. Is the explanation simple enough for you.
I dont know your problem but let me clarify my point. The people who conquered spain had different dynasties that came from North and West Africa. What we have is any group of people who identified as muslims being called a Moor in spain.There were white and black moors no one said they were exclusively black. But for you to say the black Africans from North and West Africa were a minority or insignificant is all BS. The ruling elites would have been black people as a majority because they always came from Africa with their own army.

I never said that. They were some Blacks but most were Mediterranean looking peoples.
You are the one relying on fanciful pictures people here dont even use it. You are the one bringing it up as a point when no one here cares about it. Read what people post dont just argue blindly. Mediterranean looking people would you consider a man from Somalia mediterranean looking . As i have said look into the different dynasties and the tribes they came from then youll have your answer
Dude, your arguments are laughably inconsistent. You insinuate that after many years in Spain the Moors would no longer be Black. Then you claim that these same moors from Spain many years later reached other parts of Europe and are now suddenly Black again and look like this.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...

Tsk..Tsk.

"The meaning of a moor is a black man so any black man no matter were they lived was always called a moor"

No, we are focused on the group that invaded Spain. How Northern European came to use the term Moor is not relative here. As I have pointed out the Spanish have another term for Blacks.

"The ruling elites would have been black people as a majority because they always came from Africa with their own army."

No, because the majority came from North Africa.. Morocco and they did not look Black. The ones that came from Senegal where the minority.

"You are the one relying on fanciful pictures people here dont even use it. You are the one bringing it up as a point when no one here cares about it."

You are makin no sense whatsoever. You want to argue that the Moors who conqured Spain were mostly Black and then post all kinds of images of Blacks from other parts of Europe outside of the time in question, then when I post images from Spain which are far more germaine to the topic, you say my pictures are fanciful??? You are avoiding a very basic question. Why would the Spanish who lived with these Moors for more than 800 years tend to portay them as non Black???

Common sense dude, if we want to identify the culprit we need to start with the scene of the crime, don't you think? Can I be any clearer?

Level 5

Since: Sep 12

Kinshasa, Congo, The Democratic Republic of the

#24117 Mar 24, 2014
Garrig

Yes Black is a social concept.

I agree especially in the US.

But are we supposed to overlok the fact that many of these Berbers look similar to southern Europeans who live on the other side of the Mediterranean?

Is that just coincidence?

"Secondly, their culture and genetic profile is heavily African"

African markers make up only about half their profile.

And then again these are markers North African markers that are common in certian parts of Europe. And I didn't know there was a monolithic African culture. That would be surprising as Africa is so vast.

But its all to obvious that the type of conncetion with the Berbers that you are arguing for is a very loose and vague.

It's Chinese trying to claim Persian civilization because they both are on the Asian continent.

The bottom line is that when you a group of people who look similar to southern Europeans on the other side of the Mediterranean and who share the European heritage of having been part of the Roman empire, and seen Phoenician, Greek, Byzantines, Germainc and Arab influence, it makes more sense to lump them in with Mediterrean or Arab people rather than with people from say Ghana.

KiloEcho replies

You really need a reality check

Indigenous North Africans, including Berbers, Egyptians and Nubians are viewed in Europe as an alien group of people with foundational origins in Africa and typical African cultural practices (tattooes, genetic mutilations, musical sounds, dress etc.)

The likeness between Southern Europeans and North Africans living in urban areas or coastal towns is due to the fact that they are all Mediterreanean people.

The Mediterraneans are known as the world oldest quadroons and octoroons for a very good reason.

They have black skinned ancestors of Dravidian, Ethiopian or even Saharan types who used to live around the Mediterranean Sea AS EARLY SETTLERS.

http://www.geraldbrimacombe.com/France/Greece...
http://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhibitions/c...
http://www.maravot.com/Etruscan_mural_francoi...

Bear in mind that that the purest Berbers are THE DARK BROWN SKINNED Siwa of Egypt and the Touareg of the Sahara who managed to keept most of the features of their ancestors who were migrants from the Horn of Africa. They live at quite a distance from the Mediterranean Sea which has always been a highway for migratory movements of Europeans or Western Asians.

An eminent professor at the Ethnological Institute in Paris, Dr. Paul Rivet, used to say:‘ there is a ratio of 4 to 18 per cent black blood around the Mediterranean sea

Italians have on average 10% African (Sub-Saharan/Black ancestry), as this study concludes:

"A panel of 52 AIMs was genotyped in 435 Italian individuals in order to estimate the proportion of ancestry from a three-way differentiation: sub-Saharan Africa, Europe and Asia. Structure analyses allowed us to infer membership proportions in population samples, and these proportions can be graphically displayed, as in Figure 2.

This analysis indicated that Italians have a basal proportion of sub-Saharan ancestry that is higher (9.2%, on average) than other central or northern European populations (1.5%, on average).

The amount of African ancestry in Italians is however more comparable to (but slightly higher than) the average in other Mediterranean countries (7.1%)."

Source:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/ ...
Blackmason

Philadelphia, PA

#24118 Mar 24, 2014
Look all you people who doubt black people are superior better step off. We built the pyramids!
And that was such a big achievement we never did anything since .

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