the moors were black africans not ara...
African AE

Johannesburg, South Africa

#22043 Feb 10, 2014
Bigsmoke wrote:
<quoted text>
Y Chromosome DNA does not tell one anything about their physical appearance. What part of that do you not understand?
A black and white man could both carry the same y-DNA marker just like they could inherit the same surname from a distant ancestor.
Um...
Sub-Saharan Africans originated in Sub-Sahara it shows up in their DNA and African Americans!
Europeans carry subclaves of Middle Eastern DNA that shows they originated in the Middle East! The most common Haplogroup of Western Europe is R1b! Examinating a persons Y-DNA will tell exactly where a person ORIGINATED!
Dumbo thousands of people take DNA tests everyday to trace their ANCESTORS!!!!!Scientists test the Y-DNA or the MTDNA to determine their origins!!!!!
African Americans majority Y-DNA is E1b1a
www.youtube.com/watch...
A blonde blue eyed person IS NOT INDIGENOUS TO SUB-SAHARA! A black African IS NOT INDIGENOUS TO EUROPE!!! GET IT??????????
Forensic Experts can also tell by examining a hair, exactly what race the person is!
African AE

Johannesburg, South Africa

#22044 Feb 10, 2014
Forensic Experts can also tell the race of a skeleton!
Bigsmoke

Oxford, UK

#22045 Feb 11, 2014
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>Y-DNA does tell exactly what race a person is! If a man carries E1b1a as his main Haplogroup, then its obvious he is likely to be black! Thats just a fact!
No it does not and you've just confirmed that you didn't have an idea about y-DNA with this reply.

A male carrying E1b1a could be any race, fact. Y-DNA tells one nothing about ones physical appearance.

eg A large proportion of ''African American'' males carry European origin y-DNA marker yet clearly are considered black. Also women do not even carry y-DNA yet you claim it can tell a person their race?
Bigsmoke

Oxford, UK

#22046 Feb 11, 2014
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>Um...
Sub-Saharan Africans originated in Sub-Sahara it shows up in their DNA and African Americans!
Europeans carry subclaves of Middle Eastern DNA that shows they originated in the Middle East! The most common Haplogroup of Western Europe is R1b! Examinating a persons Y-DNA will tell exactly where a person ORIGINATED!
Dumbo thousands of people take DNA tests everyday to trace their ANCESTORS!!!!!Scientists test the Y-DNA or the MTDNA to determine their origins!!!!!
African Americans majority Y-DNA is E1b1a
www.youtube.com/watch...
A blonde blue eyed person IS NOT INDIGENOUS TO SUB-SAHARA! A black African IS NOT INDIGENOUS TO EUROPE!!! GET IT??????????
Forensic Experts can also tell by examining a hair, exactly what race the person is!
Many ''African American'' males inherited R1b from a single male European ancestor, generations ago. Does that make them white/European?

Y-DNA is exactly like a surname but for males. You inherit it form your dad who inherited it from his dad etc it's a name over the generations many males of different races could hold that name yet appear to be part of various racial groups but all trace to this one paternal ancestry. Just like how many ''African Americans'' who are clearly deemed black inherited not only their paternal European ancestors surname (Jefferson, Washington etc) but his y-DNA marker.

So I ask you this question. Is an ''African American'' male who looks like Don Cheadle who in reality is 81% African + 19% European but in this case carries a European origin R1b y-DNA from a single European males ancestor 200 years ago, does that make him white?
Bigsmoke

Oxford, UK

#22047 Feb 11, 2014
@ African AE

This guy knows what he's talking about on a thread which clearly shows flaws in using y-DNA to determine ones race.

Source:
http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/TDTGO5QQK6NT0...
Quote
JohnInMansfieldOhio wrote:
IF Y-DNA determines race then supposedly I have West African DNA on the male side but European on the female side but Im white. Anyway some of the cousins came back that way on their DNA test. Im going to have mine done to see if its true.
Ironically Quincy Jones has Y DNA that is unbroken European. He is "black"
IF Y-CHROMOSONAL DNA passed in an unbroken line from father to son back thousands of years is what makes you part of one race or another then Quincy is white and I am black.
That definately AINT RIGHT.
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#22048 Feb 11, 2014
Bigsmoke wrote:
<quoted text>
No it does not and you've just confirmed that you didn't have an idea about y-DNA with this reply.
A male carrying E1b1a could be any race, fact. Y-DNA tells one nothing about ones physical appearance.
eg A large proportion of ''African American'' males carry European origin y-DNA marker yet clearly are considered black. Also women do not even carry y-DNA yet you claim it can tell a person their race?
Because THEY ARE PROBABLY MIXED RACE!!!! MTDNA TELLS THE WOMENS RACE!!!!!ITS ABOUT PERCENTAGES! A person carrying overwhelmingly E1b1a IS BLACK! A person carrying overwhelmingly R1a will be WHITE! Also depending on the MTDNA (Female)Some people are mixed race! Im mixed race, white, Asian, but look like a light skin Indian! Its also depends on the womens MTDNA!!!!! African Americans carry up to 25% European DNA from white Americans and sometimes even more!
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#22049 Feb 11, 2014
Bigsmoke wrote:
@ African AE
This guy knows what he's talking about on a thread which clearly shows flaws in using y-DNA to determine ones race.
Source:
http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/TDTGO5QQK6NT0...
Quote
<quoted text>
It depends on the percentage Y-DNA you carry! Your father might be 50% E1b1a and 50% R1b. If your mother is white, you probably will look like a light skin black person more than than anything else!
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#22050 Feb 11, 2014
Bigsmoke wrote:
<quoted text>
Many ''African American'' males inherited R1b from a single male European ancestor, generations ago. Does that make them white/European?
Y-DNA is exactly like a surname but for males. You inherit it form your dad who inherited it from his dad etc it's a name over the generations many males of different races could hold that name yet appear to be part of various racial groups but all trace to this one paternal ancestry. Just like how many ''African Americans'' who are clearly deemed black inherited not only their paternal European ancestors surname (Jefferson, Washington etc) but his y-DNA marker.
So I ask you this question. Is an ''African American'' male who looks like Don Cheadle who in reality is 81% African + 19% European but in this case carries a European origin R1b y-DNA from a single European males ancestor 200 years ago, does that make him white?
No, he definitely would be considered African American! Most African Americans have white ancestors!
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#22051 Feb 11, 2014
Most Sub-Saharan Africans are 100% African just like you get a lot of Europeans/Middle Eastern/Asian people that carry only DNA from the area they live in. Thats why when scientists take DNA from someone, they can tell where that person originated from.
Also you get subclaves of DNA. For instance, Ethiopians migrated to North Africa 26000 years ago. That DNA in North Africa eventually became a different subclave of the original Ethiopian DNA! Thats why even though Moroccans carry INDIGENOUS North African DNA, the majority look nothing like Ethiopians!
Bigsmoke

Oxford, UK

#22052 Feb 11, 2014
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>Because THEY ARE PROBABLY MIXED RACE!!!! MTDNA TELLS THE WOMENS RACE!!!!!ITS ABOUT PERCENTAGES! A person carrying overwhelmingly E1b1a IS BLACK! A person carrying overwhelmingly R1a will be WHITE! Also depending on the MTDNA (Female)Some people are mixed race! Im mixed race, white, Asian, but look like a light skin Indian! Its also depends on the womens MTDNA!!!!! African Americans carry up to 25% European DNA from white Americans and sometimes even more!
Your ignorance on the subject is even deeper than I thought.

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is maternal linage and is passed from mother to child (male & female). This has absolutely nothing to do with physical features.

Y Chromosome DNA (y-DNA) is paternal linage and is passed from father to son (male only).

Percentages? A males inherits one y-DNA marker from his dad and one mtDNA marker from his mum. A female on the other hand inherits only one mtDNA marker from her mum. Where are you getting percentages from? A male either carries R1a or not there is no percentage breakdown.

It is estimated that over 20% of ''African American'' males carry a European origin y-DNA marker, you only inherit one from your paternal linage.
Bigsmoke

Oxford, UK

#22053 Feb 11, 2014
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>It depends on the percentage Y-DNA you carry! Your father might be 50% E1b1a and 50% R1b. If your mother is white, you probably will look like a light skin black person more than than anything else!
You can not be 50% E1b1a and 50% R1b, you're either carrying E1b1a or R1b, you inherit only one from a single ancestor out of all of your ancestors hence how a black man can carry a European marker as it is one European ancestor generations ago in his ancestry. Do you understand it yet?

Level 5

Since: Sep 12

Kinshasa, Congo, The Democratic Republic of the

#22054 Feb 11, 2014
African AE said

A person carrying overwhelmingly E1b1a IS BLACK!

KiloEcho replies

Your post is futher proof that the so called Whites have whitewashed the E1b1b found in millions of Europeans and Asians as a cover up for their black ancestry from the Horn of Africa

E1b1ba is Black but its parent subclade is Caucasian

How on earth one is Caucasian and the other one is Black?

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE.html

Y-DNA haplogroup E would appear to have arisen in northern hemisphere of Africa based on the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today.

E1b1 is by far the lineage of greatest geographical distribution. It has two major sub-lineages, E1b1a and E1b1b.

E1b1a is a lineage that originated and expanded from West or Central Africa to Eastern Africa and Southern Africa.

E1b1b probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west--both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea.

E1b1b1 clusters are seen today in Western Europe, Southeast Europe, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa

http://www.roperld.com/ybiallelichaplogroups....

Haplogroup E probably arose in Northeast Africa, if one looks only at the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today.

But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration

Haplogroup E3a is an African lineage. It is currently hypothesized that this haplogroup dispersed south from northern Africa within the last 3,000 years, by the Bantu agricultural expansion. E3a is also the most common lineage among African Americans.

Haplogroup E3b is believed to have evolved in the Middle East.

It expanded into the Mediterranean during the Pleistocene Neolithic expansion. It is currently distributed around the Mediterranean, southern Europe, and in north and east Africa.
----------
It is obvious that the so called Whites erased and replaced black skinned populations who were aboriginals to Europe and Western Asia through race mixing. They still carry the signature genes of the black skinned ancestors from Africa, the e1b1b.
Bigsmoke

Oxford, UK

#22055 Feb 11, 2014
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>No, he definitely would be considered African American! Most African Americans have white ancestors!
So do you not yet understand how it has nothing to do with race?

A white man could have black greatgrandsons who show no signs of having a white ancestor yet they carry his European origin y-DNA marker the only one they get.

Example of how y-DNA and mtDNA tells ones hardly anything about their ancestry and nothing about their race.

This scenario is 100% possible and has probably occured:

Socially deemed Race = Black
Nuclear DNA (ancestral breakdown)= 95% African + 5% European
Y Chromosome DNA (paternal linage)= R1b (European)
Mitochondrial DNA (maternal linage)= H (European)

All y-DNA and mtDNA does is show common ancestry in your paternal or maternal linage between people to a geographic location and time period. Everyone shares common ancestry but at different times and locations.

Level 5

Since: Sep 12

Kinshasa, Congo, The Democratic Republic of the

#22056 Feb 11, 2014
Curious Me said

"Moro" is the actual word and its actual derivative in Spanish is "Moreno".
"Moro" was used originally for the Mediterranean Maghribíyan Berber(or Berebere) population and NO OTHER...CERTAINLY NOT ANY BLACK TUAREG as they are in no way considered to be part of any Mediterranean group.

KiloEcho replies

This is the second time that I post the following reply.

Your post is further proof that the Spaniards are ashamed of their past, particularly during the 700+ years of Islamic Moorish occupation in Al Andalus.

The Moors can never ever be black skinned or [email protected] (a racially charged word coined in 15C by Iberians for African slaves or servants) only dark skinned (moreno) because the shame would be too great to bear.

Having black skinned Africans aka [email protected] as slave masters, rulers, civilizers, colonizers, conquerors,what a shame!!!

Get this in your negrophobic skull

1) Arabs are mixed with Blacks from different parts of Africa, they invaded, colonized and traded with. Millions of Arabs are, in fact, Afro-Arabs with varying levels of black admixture.

2) Millions of Arabs are black skinned, particularly in Sudan and Northern Chad

3) The PURER Berbers are, in fact, the dark brown skinned Touareg of the Sahara and the Siwa of Egypt. They have keept most of the features of the original Berbers, whose homeland is East Africa.

4) Your own Spanish ancestors said that the Moors have bodies as black as night and the Moor is a of black color.

"El Moro tiene el negro" como el moro tiene el color negro

El mauros es el caballo de color negro, pues negro en griego se dice maûros”, en San Isidoro de Sevilla, Etimologías, edición bilingüe, Madrid, 1994

El caballo morcillo (maurus) tiene color negro”.

http://www.spanishdict.com/translation

The Moor has the black since the Moor has the black color

The mauros is the horse of black color, since black in Greek says to himself maûros”, in San Isidoro of Seville, Etymologies, bilingual edition, Madrid, 1994

The horse morcillo (maurus) has black color”.

5) The word moor was also used for black skinned Africans of Christian faith long before the advent of Islam and the Arabo Berber conquest of Spain.

There are a quite large number of Moorish Saints: Saint Victor the Moor, Saint Gregory the Moor, Saint Corbineus, the Moor, Saint, Saint Zeno the Moor

All they had in common is their black skin and their African origin.
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#22057 Feb 11, 2014
Bigsmoke wrote:
<quoted text>
Your ignorance on the subject is even deeper than I thought.
Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is maternal linage and is passed from mother to child (male & female). This has absolutely nothing to do with physical features.
Y Chromosome DNA (y-DNA) is paternal linage and is passed from father to son (male only).
Percentages? A males inherits one y-DNA marker from his dad and one mtDNA marker from his mum. A female on the other hand inherits only one mtDNA marker from her mum. Where are you getting percentages from? A male either carries R1a or not there is no percentage breakdown.
It is estimated that over 20% of ''African American'' males carry a European origin y-DNA marker, you only inherit one from your paternal linage.
Um...if DNA has nothing to do with physical feature, please explain to me how it is, close family look alike????Children inherit their parents DNA! Very few people are 100% R1b or E1b1a. They have a percentage of other DNA as well! For example, Moroccans are 3/4 North African, but also carry a small percentage European and Middle Eastern DNA!
WORLD DNA MAP:
www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogrou...
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#22058 Feb 11, 2014
KiloEcho wrote:
Curious Me said
"Moro" is the actual word and its actual derivative in Spanish is "Moreno".
"Moro" was used originally for the Mediterranean Maghribíyan Berber(or Berebere) population and NO OTHER...CERTAINLY NOT ANY BLACK TUAREG as they are in no way considered to be part of any Mediterranean group.
KiloEcho replies
This is the second time that I post the following reply.
Your post is further proof that the Spaniards are ashamed of their past, particularly during the 700+ years of Islamic Moorish occupation in Al Andalus.
The Moors can never ever be black skinned or [email protected] (a racially charged word coined in 15C by Iberians for African slaves or servants) only dark skinned (moreno) because the shame would be too great to bear.
Having black skinned Africans aka [email protected] as slave masters, rulers, civilizers, colonizers, conquerors,what a shame!!!
Get this in your negrophobic skull
1) Arabs are mixed with Blacks from different parts of Africa, they invaded, colonized and traded with. Millions of Arabs are, in fact, Afro-Arabs with varying levels of black admixture.
2) Millions of Arabs are black skinned, particularly in Sudan and Northern Chad
3) The PURER Berbers are, in fact, the dark brown skinned Touareg of the Sahara and the Siwa of Egypt. They have keept most of the features of the original Berbers, whose homeland is East Africa.
4) Your own Spanish ancestors said that the Moors have bodies as black as night and the Moor is a of black color.
"El Moro tiene el negro" como el moro tiene el color negro
El mauros es el caballo de color negro, pues negro en griego se dice maûros”, en San Isidoro de Sevilla, Etimologías, edición bilingüe, Madrid, 1994
El caballo morcillo (maurus) tiene color negro”.
http://www.spanishdict.com/translation
The Moor has the black since the Moor has the black color
The mauros is the horse of black color, since black in Greek says to himself maûros”, in San Isidoro of Seville, Etymologies, bilingual edition, Madrid, 1994
The horse morcillo (maurus) has black color”.
5) The word moor was also used for black skinned Africans of Christian faith long before the advent of Islam and the Arabo Berber conquest of Spain.
There are a quite large number of Moorish Saints: Saint Victor the Moor, Saint Gregory the Moor, Saint Corbineus, the Moor, Saint, Saint Zeno the Moor
All they had in common is their black skin and their African origin.
If the majority of Moors were pitch black, how they hell did they all turn white in 500 years! Why didnt AA all turn white in 500 years! Your argument is just stupid!
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#22060 Feb 11, 2014
KiloEcho wrote:
African AE said
A person carrying overwhelmingly E1b1a IS BLACK!
KiloEcho replies
Your post is futher proof that the so called Whites have whitewashed the E1b1b found in millions of Europeans and Asians as a cover up for their black ancestry from the Horn of Africa
E1b1ba is Black but its parent subclade is Caucasian
How on earth one is Caucasian and the other one is Black?
http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE.html
Y-DNA haplogroup E would appear to have arisen in northern hemisphere of Africa based on the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today.
E1b1 is by far the lineage of greatest geographical distribution. It has two major sub-lineages, E1b1a and E1b1b.
E1b1a is a lineage that originated and expanded from West or Central Africa to Eastern Africa and Southern Africa.
E1b1b probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west--both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea.
E1b1b1 clusters are seen today in Western Europe, Southeast Europe, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa
http://www.roperld.com/ybiallelichaplogroups....
Haplogroup E probably arose in Northeast Africa, if one looks only at the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today.
But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration
Haplogroup E3a is an African lineage. It is currently hypothesized that this haplogroup dispersed south from northern Africa within the last 3,000 years, by the Bantu agricultural expansion. E3a is also the most common lineage among African Americans.
Haplogroup E3b is believed to have evolved in the Middle East.
It expanded into the Mediterranean during the Pleistocene Neolithic expansion. It is currently distributed around the Mediterranean, southern Europe, and in north and east Africa.
----------
It is obvious that the so called Whites erased and replaced black skinned populations who were aboriginals to Europe and Western Asia through race mixing. They still carry the signature genes of the black skinned ancestors from Africa, the e1b1b.
Um...E1b1b is not the same as E1b1a! Like I said before, some Ethiopians moved 26000 years ago to North Africa! The DNA they took to North Africa changed into a NORTH AFRICAN SUBCLAVE over time! Thats why Moroccans are NOT related to Ethiopians BECAUSE THEY DO NOT CARRY THE SAME HAPLOGROUP E !!!!!!!!!!Europeans and Middle Eastern people carry the same subclave of Haplogroup E NOT FOUND IN ETHIOPIA! Also Cameroon people carry Haplogroup R1b through a back migration of Eurasians!!! THE R1B Haplogroup they carry IS NOT THE SAME AS THE R1b carried by Europeans! If it was the same, Europeans and Cameroons people would look alike! But they dont, go figure!
African AE

Durban, South Africa

#22061 Feb 11, 2014
Europeans carry Haplogroup E-M34 and E-M35! These Haplogroups originated from Egypt/Libya about 13000 years ago with the Natufians who lived in the Levant! The Eurasians living in the Middle East interbred them out of existence but took their DNA with them into Europe! The ancient Eurasian Neolithic Middle Eastern Farmers then went into Europe carrying the majority percentage Haplogroups, J and G which are Middle Eastern in origin! Southern Europeans still carry Haplogroup J as their main Haplogroup! These same Neolithic Farmers went into the Arabic Peninsula spreading Haplogroup J there as well and into North Africa, were Haplogroup J is also found!
Bigsmoke

Oxford, UK

#22062 Feb 11, 2014
African AE wrote:
<quoted text>Um...if DNA has nothing to do with physical feature, please explain to me how it is, close family look alike????Children inherit their parents DNA! Very few people are 100% R1b or E1b1a. They have a percentage of other DNA as well! For example, Moroccans are 3/4 North African, but also carry a small percentage European and Middle Eastern DNA!
WORLD DNA MAP:
www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogrou...
I am saying Y Chromosome DNA and Mitochondrial DNA have nothing to do with physical features these two chromosomes do not code for physical features. Our physical features are determined by the alleles of genes such as OCA2, MC1R, SLC45A2, ASIP etc.

You inherit a single marker so you're either R1b or not, no percentages.

That source is expressing the results of samples taken. eg 100 males haves their y-DNA tested 75 of them carry a North African marker while the other 25 carry a European and Middle Eastern marker thus the frequency would be 75% North African marker and 25% European and Middle Eastern marker. This does not represent ancestral admixture breakdown rather frequency of men carrying a select marker.

These are frequencies not admixtures.

Level 5

Since: Sep 12

Kinshasa, Congo, The Democratic Republic of the

#22064 Feb 11, 2014
African AE said

If the majority of Moors were pitch black, how they hell did they all turn white in 500 years!

Why didnt AA all turn white in 500 years! Your argument is just stupid!

KiloEcho replies

There are no White Moors, only in your dreams. You are the one who is stupid

The Moors are either black (back-a-Moor or black as a Moor ) or part black (coffee and milk aka tawny Moors) with European or Western Asian admixture.

The one drop rule is applied in the reverse mode in North-East and Saharan Africa.

The lightest AA is always Black, the darkest Touareg is always Caucasian;

Why the double standard?

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