Was Cleopatra black?

"Watching a local television program recently, I heard Spike Lee express his belief that Queen Cleopatra of Egypt was Black. Read more

“~ Baby Glow~~”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

The city of Adana

#1191 Sep 12, 2008
Ebony Princess wrote:
<quoted text>
You so beautiful Secret Soul. You look my momma's sisters baby daughter. What kind of secrets you been hiding? lol
Awww thanx (*cheezin*) Alot of secrets girl. lol
Jeff

Natick, MA

#1192 Sep 12, 2008
SecretSoul wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't where you facts are coming from but Cleopatra was born in 69 B.C. in Alexandria, Egypt. She died August 12, 30 B.C.
Cleopatra was a daughter of Pharaoh Ptolemy XII Auletes. Cleopatra married her younger brother Ptolemy XIII and after his death, she married her younger brother Ptolemy XIV. Later she married the Roman Mark Antony.
Cleopatra had one son by Caesar, named Caesarion. She had twins with Mark Antony, Alexander Helios and Cleopatra Selene, and later, a son, Ptolemy Philadelphos.
Cleopatra was actually Cleopatra VII, and was the last pharaoh of Egypt, because Rome took over following her death.
Historic evidence is where my facts are derived from and the above statement doesn't show anything that has disproves what I said about Cleopatra all along: she was Hellenic Caucasian ruler who's family ruled Egypt for a while. Just because she was born in Egypt does not mean anything. Culturally and biologically she was still a European ruler who could care less about native Egyptians and her actions proved this when she had affairs and children with two European men.
Jeff

Natick, MA

#1193 Sep 12, 2008
SecretSoul wrote:
<quoted text>
Cleopatra was actually Cleopatra VII, and was the last pharaoh of Egypt, because Rome took over following her death.
Which doesn't make her origins any less European.

Ptolemy V married Queen Cleopatra, daughter of Antiochus, king of Greece, he was poisoned in 181. Ptolemy VI married Queen Cleopatra II of the noble Seleucid family, Seleucid Dynasty was another European Greek-Macedonian family who ruled Syria and most of Asia Minor. His brother Ptolemy VII had him killed and then married his widow. Afterwards Ptolemy VII had Cleopatra II, his brotherís widow killed, and he married Cleopatra III, his niece, the daughter of his murdered brother and his murdered wife. Ptolemy VIII ruled jointly with his mother, Cleopatra III. But his mother, Queen Cleopatra III, dethroned him in favor of her younger son Ptolemy IX. After the coup, Ptolemy IX promptly had his mother, Queen Cleopatra III, murdered. Cleopatra IV and Cleopatra V were daughters of Cleopatra III and Ptolemy VII. Ptolemy XI son of Ptolemy VIII and Cleopatra V had children, Ptolemy XII, Ptolemy XIII, Berenice VI, Arsinoe IV, Cleopatra VI and Queen Cleopatra VII the last rule of the Ptolemaic dynasty. All Cleopatras, including Cleopatra VII, were initiated to high priestesses into the Eleusinian mysteries a death cult dedicated to the gods Demeter, Dionysus and Apollo that have been the foundation of European culture since ancient time. Guarded within the royal enclave of Alexandria by eunuchs, both guards, priestesses and priests initiated into the Eleusinian mysteries and adherents to the practices of this death cult, all of these Cleopatras and Ptolemies were of noble birth and direct descendants of the European Greek-Macedonian families.

“~ Baby Glow~~”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

The city of Adana

#1194 Sep 12, 2008
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Which doesn't make her origins any less European.
Ptolemy V married Queen Cleopatra, daughter of Antiochus, king of Greece, he was poisoned in 181. Ptolemy VI married Queen Cleopatra II of the noble Seleucid family, Seleucid Dynasty was another European Greek-Macedonian family who ruled Syria and most of Asia Minor. His brother Ptolemy VII had him killed and then married his widow. Afterwards Ptolemy VII had Cleopatra II, his brotherís widow killed, and he married Cleopatra III, his niece, the daughter of his murdered brother and his murdered wife. Ptolemy VIII ruled jointly with his mother, Cleopatra III. But his mother, Queen Cleopatra III, dethroned him in favor of her younger son Ptolemy IX. After the coup, Ptolemy IX promptly had his mother, Queen Cleopatra III, murdered. Cleopatra IV and Cleopatra V were daughters of Cleopatra III and Ptolemy VII. Ptolemy XI son of Ptolemy VIII and Cleopatra V had children, Ptolemy XII, Ptolemy XIII, Berenice VI, Arsinoe IV, Cleopatra VI and Queen Cleopatra VII the last rule of the Ptolemaic dynasty. All Cleopatras, including Cleopatra VII, were initiated to high priestesses into the Eleusinian mysteries a death cult dedicated to the gods Demeter, Dionysus and Apollo that have been the foundation of European culture since ancient time. Guarded within the royal enclave of Alexandria by eunuchs, both guards, priestesses and priests initiated into the Eleusinian mysteries and adherents to the practices of this death cult, all of these Cleopatras and Ptolemies were of noble birth and direct descendants of the European Greek-Macedonian families.
Yes she was of mecedonian heritage but not Europian heritage, she was born in egypt whitch was established by the time she was born whitch made her AFRICAN
Jeff

Natick, MA

#1195 Sep 12, 2008
SecretSoul wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes she was of mecedonian heritage but not Europian heritage, she was born in egypt whitch was established by the time she was born whitch made her AFRICAN
No it doesn't make her African because she never identified as an "African". The identities known to her and the ones she identified with were the following: she was of European origins with Hellenic heritage and culture and Egyptian nationality. Cleopatra and her Dynasty family spend just as much time in the Greek region as they did in Alexanderia, in fact her father who ruled Egypt before her wasn't even born in Egypt but the Hellenic island Cyprus.
Jeff

Natick, MA

#1196 Sep 12, 2008
"Even though they adopted Egyptian customs to a certain degree, the Ptolemaic kings and queens were Greek. They spoke Greek and they thought that Greek culture and peoples were better than Egyptian culture and peoples. Greek became the state language, and cities were renamed. In fact, the word "Egypt" is a Greek word (the Egyptian word is "Kmt" or Kemet). On the whole, native Egyptians occupied the lowest social positions." ~Washington State University

Level 5

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#1197 Sep 12, 2008
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
You sound delusional.
<quoted text>
You are incorrect. There are historic documents from her time period that tell us. That is how people know how xenophobic her Dynasty was and how they viewed native Egyptians and black Africans beneath them. Yes Cleopatra was light skinned Greek woman, everything that we have of Cleopatra's personal belongings confirm she was Greek including her royal seal that was found a few years ago which is in GREEK not Egyptian because she was Greek. In other words Cleopatra herself confirmed she was Greek none else. Cleopatra and her family have spoken for themselves numerous times through their artifacts, evidence and works and they have confirmed many many times that they were indeed GREEK, not blacks nor native Egyptians. Why do you think Eurocentric use this Dynasty to claim Egypt as a 'European culture'? Becuase when the Ptolemaic Dynasty ruled it was more European then Egyptian.
<quoted text>
Nope, she wasn't African, she would never have identified herself as African. And no she didn't have an "African maid". The Ptolemies ruled from the enclave fortress of Alexandria where anyone who was not of Hellenic origins could not roam freely, not to mention the palace that the Ptolemies could be found in would surrounded themselves with Hellenic peoples from royality to slaves to servants and upper class members. So no her maid or nanny would not have been "African" but of European Hellenic origins.... and for someone who is supposedly black you just so stereotyped your own people into something that I thought only whites.
<quoted text>
HAHA!! Nice Eurocentric myth there. Native Egyptians and Africans couldn't stand Cleoptara, she and her father bled the country dry. Native Egyptians regarded the Ptolemies as foreigners, twice Cleopatra's father escaped assassination attempts upon his life. Not to mention the fact that she was ready to rule Egypt with ANOTHER EUROPEAN MAN before she died. LOL!!! Yeah, that's how much she 'cared' about native Egyptians.
Lol. Good luck with that one Jeff. But I doubt you will ever get through to her.
NO MORE OBAMA

Lynwood, CA

#1199 Sep 12, 2008
nooney wrote:
cleopatra was a greek woman ruling over a mostly african population. her ancestor was the greek general ptolemy who took over egypt after the death of alexander the great. ptolemy, who had a greek wife, had his family adopt the pharaohic practice of brother-sister marriages. the ptolemaic line lasted for nearly 300 years with cleopatra being the last of this dynasty and a product of several generations of brother-sister marriages. it is doubtful that much outside genetic material got into the dynasty. if anything cleopatra may have had a drop of 'black blood' but for the most part she was of greek heredity.
So true, they found her image on a old coin, she had white features. The egyptiand didnt have racism, they were made up of many races, although mostly of the darker races.

“~ Baby Glow~~”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

The city of Adana

#1201 Sep 12, 2008
There are many different facts about Cleopatra when it comes to her lineage. The hardest part is determining the ones that are correct. Your facts out number mine and you onviously have studied this topic for quite some time. So I cant argue with you. Congratulations you handed me my ass. lol.You seem to have the most knowledge about cleopatra than anyone.
retro kidd

Las Vegas, NV

#1202 Sep 19, 2008
look i think tht she was black u no y cuz she was halla fine and onmly black ppl loo good
Jeff

Natick, MA

#1204 Sep 19, 2008
retro kidd wrote:
look i think tht she was black u no y cuz she was halla fine and onmly black ppl loo good
Get a clue. Cleopatra wasn't black nor was she 'halla fine' looking. She was pale skin chick with Greek ethnicity, European origins and Egyptian nationality. That's it.
ha ha

Sydney, Australia

#1205 Oct 2, 2008
she was macedonian and she moved to egypt are you talking about cleopatra VII? she spoke 9 languages
Jeff

Natick, MA

#1206 Oct 3, 2008
ha ha wrote:
she was macedonian and she moved to egypt are you talking about cleopatra VII? she spoke 9 languages
In other words she was Greek therefore European origins. Just like I've always have been saying. LOL!!
long island girl

Trenton, NJ

#1207 Oct 3, 2008
No
Wtf cleopatra was greek
And yes the majority of egyptians were black at the time and still r today. Were is egypt after all in AFRICA

I believe the word egypt means dark land or black land search it up.

Back then all of africa was refered to as egypt not only the north

Since: Aug 08

USA

#1208 Oct 27, 2008
this is to jeff
egyptians are of mixed of berber and arab..some have greek blood...i would not say she is black but i would not say she is white
she is a mix of berber arab and greek...i dont know why they portray her as white when she not

the greek in her is from alexander the great
she is most likely this skin tone
[IMG]http://i161.photobucket.c om/albums/t222/camiemj/Cleopat ra.gif[/IMG]

Since: Aug 08

USA

#1209 Oct 27, 2008
long island girl wrote:
No
Wtf cleopatra was greek
And yes the majority of egyptians were black at the time and still r today. Were is egypt after all in AFRICA
I believe the word egypt means dark land or black land search it up.
Back then all of africa was refered to as egypt not only the north
she was mixed with greek she is not full greek
Crazy

Pevely, MO

#1210 Oct 27, 2008
midniteangel wrote:
She was mostly Egyptian...who are not black what so ever. Especially for those times...Blacks were truely from Africa...period!
.....and where is Egypt located? She was not black I do understand that she was not from the "original" line of royalty but Egypt is a part of Africa...period!
Jeff

Framingham, MA

#1211 Oct 27, 2008
almaz wrote:
this is to jeff
egyptians are of mixed of berber and arab..some have greek blood...i would not say she is black but i would not say she is white
she is a mix of berber arab and greek...i dont know why they portray her as white when she not
the greek in her is from alexander the great
she is most likely this skin tone
[IMG]http://i161.photobucket.c om/albums/t222/camiemj/Cleopat ra.gif[/IMG]
Incorrect, Cleopatra looked nothing like 'mixed' because she was NOT mixed. Cleopatra had ZERO native Egyptian blood in her, zero berber arab blood in her and zero African blood in her. She was not 'mixed' anything but 100% Greek, she was a white European female. Sorry to break it to you again but the fact of the matter is Cleopatra was not mixed anything and the only legit busts and coins we have of Cleopatra clearly depict her European characteristics. She was a pure bred white European girl, not a black Nubian sister nor a native Egyptian nor a berber arab for that matter. Her family the Ptolemaic Dynasty inbred with one another.

First and for most Cleopatra wasn't a native Egyptian, she was Greek ruler who's family colonized and ruled Egypt for a while. She was like the whites who ruled South African for a while but weren't black or mixed or anything like that. They know who all the Cleopatras and their family members are. They know based upon the fact that the Ptolemies own records confirm this dynasty family was 100% white European Greeks who inbred with one another to keep their blood 'pure'. The Ptolemies were one of the best at keeping marriage, birth and death records. Meaning there is slim to none chance that Cleopatra had any black blood in her never mind anything else.

Why do you think Eurocentric use this Dynasty to claim Egypt as a 'European culture'? Becuase when the Ptolemaic Dynasty ruled it was more European then Egyptian. Also not only were their names fully Greek but the language they spoke was not Egyptian but Greek too. None of Cleopatra's ancestors who ruled Egypt for hundreds of years even bothered to learn Egyptian, instead they forced Greek upon their native Egyptian subjects.
Jeff

Natick, MA

#1212 Oct 27, 2008
almaz wrote:
<quoted text>she was mixed with greek she is not full greek
You are 100% WRONG again. Cleopatra was not mixed. Her family INBRED in other words THEY MARRIED WITH ONE ANOTHER TO KEEP THEIR BLOODLINE 'PURE'.

Cleopatra's father was the product of inbred 100% Ptolemaic breed. We know wh Cleopatra's paternal grandmother was and she was the SISTER of her paternal GRANDFATHER.

Cleopatra, she was a member of the Ptolemaic Dynasty who intermarried with each other -- she was not Egyptian, but Macedonian Greek, and therefore was certain to have the coloring of that ethnic group, which includes gold-blondes like Alexander the Great as well as brunettes. This dynasty emerged and perpetrated itself by intrigue, incest, conspiracy and murder. The Ptolemies ruled from the enclave fortress of Alexandria where anyone who was not of Hellenic origins could not roam freely, not to mention the palace that the Ptolemies could be found in would surrounded themselves with Hellenic peoples from royality to slaves to servants and upper class members. Alexandria is called a "cosmopolitan" city, but the native Egyptians played no part in its demography. The native Egyptians who were reduced to lower class citizens and peasants spoke their native language, worshipped their native gods, and harbored a smoldering resentment against the foreigners who build and lived in Alexandria, which the Egyptians still called Rhakotis, the name of the small abandoned fishing village on the site Alexander founded his city. The Ptolemaic Dynasty interested in keeping the throne in the family line, continued the incestuous Pharaonic practice of marrying family members, which ensured not only that the family blood line was persevered but also their Hellenic ethnicity. Both set of grandparents and the parents of Cleopatra VII were of Ptolemaic bloodline. Ancient busts and coins of Cleopatra depict her Caucasian ancestry. She would have been of fair complexion because the fashion of ancient Greek and Roman females from Royal and Upper class families associated tanned skin with lower class people who worked out in the fields. Egypt is a very sunny place but you may be sure that ancient Ptolemaic queens like Cleopatra didn't go outside much to work on their tans. Contemporary descriptions of her were of average build with a hawkish nose and red-brownish hair. In light of the matrilineal nature of Ptolemaic succession, similar to that of certain older civilizations, it is unlikely that she or her father would have been named as heirs to the throne had they been off-springs of 'concubines' who were of none Ptolemaic bloodline given the legitimate Ptolemaic children that were abound in the royal palace. Further more Cleopatra was known to the Romans whom she came into contact with. She lived in Rome before Caesar's death where many people knew what she looked like. During her conflicts between her and Octavius, Roman poets and propagandists did their utmost to exaggerate her "foreignness" as a "Hellenic" barbarian who even had Antony dress in Greek style. But these same Roman poets and propagandists make no ancient reference to the colour of her skin ever describe her as "black" and we know from other Roman poets that is a description they applied to other people who did have African black characteristics which is an odd omission from these Roman propagandists who made use of anything in her appearance that marked her out as much "different" from themselves as they could. The mere fact that no Roman propagandists ever described Cleopatra as "black" or of "mixed" origins is an interestingly odd omission from the propaganda that was used against her to make her as "different" from the Romans as possible if this "Cleopatra was black of mixed black origins" theory was true and points the fact that she was not of mixed origins or of black ancestory but the product of European nbreeding 100% Ptolemaic bloodline.
Jeff

Natick, MA

#1213 Oct 27, 2008
Crazy wrote:
<quoted text>
.....and where is Egypt located? She was not black I do understand that she was not from the "original" line of royalty but Egypt is a part of Africa...period!
Egypt wasn't known as 'part' of African during her time period. She wouldn't even have known what the heck people were talking about if they called her 'African'. Cleopatra was a European Hellene by blood and culture and nationality an 'Egyptian' which by the way is not even the native term for the country or its people but the GREEK term given by the Greeks to the country and its people. Cleopatra's dad wasn't even BORN in Egypt and she and the Ptolemies spend just as much time in the Greek mainland and other Greek kingdoms through out the ancient Greek world as they did in Egypti.

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