Black REVOLUTIONARY Films

Ish Tov wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, and the USA did the same to Iraq, facilitating the removal of Qasim by the Nazi (literally) Ba'athists, power passing within a few years to Saddam Hussein.
Another progressive-leaning leader, democratically elected, Mossedegh was given not even the brief time Qasim had had to lead, was immediately replaced by the Shah by nefarious shenanigans by UK & USA.
Then the USA sits on the side goading Saddam to have a war with Iran, supplies him with poison gas, watches the 2 countries tear each other up and lose many thousands of their young men...
USA's entanglement with those 2 countries has been rotten to the core at least since 1954.

__________

Your 4 points above.----- Are right on the mark.

That was the foreign policy of the United States federal government.

The United States, United Kingdom & Israel have Allies & interests throughout the world.

If the United States, United Kingdoms or Israels Allies or interests are threatened.---

Well, there are repercussions.

The United States, United Kingdoms & Israels main threats are left wing movements & Islamic fundamentalists.

Ish Tov wrote:

<quoted text>Imagine the capacity to organize mass demonstrations if all you had to do was put it out on Twitter or Facebook.

__________

Had the 1960s left wing activists had the internet back then.--- I don't think they could have achieved any more.

Because ultimately, it comes down to what concessions the American System will grant.

The American System will grant only certain concessions.

That is it.

The internet has been available to the public since at least 1991.

From 1991 till now.----- These have been the mass left wing movements?----

1. November, 2002 till mid March, 2003.----- Many, many protests throughout the world. Protesting against the proposed Allied invasion of Iraq.

Well, these left wing protests didn't prevent the Allied invasion of Iraq.

2. Mid September, 2011 till mid November, 2011.----- The "Occupy Wall Street" protests.----

These left wing protests failed to achieve any of their goals or objectives.

Ish Tov wrote:

<quoted text>In the 60's a LOT of white longhairs showed up in California wanting to work with César and Dolores in the UFW. NOW, with a website, if the UFW asked for such volunteers, nobody would show up.

__________

Well, this shows that times have changed. That the eras have changed.

What you stated above, why do you think this is the case?

Do you think that people are disillusioned?

If so, do you think it could be that they don't see left wing protests achieving any effective politically left of center change?

Ish Tov wrote:

<quoted text>It was in the late 90's, a great march but a sad commentary also in it, in Watsonville CA, big UFW march. But my point is that 15 miles up the highway is UCSC and Santa Cruz, a town run by self-professed socialists, all femninist and radical and ultra-hip, and I at one point moved from front to back of the march to peruse the participants and I can say with certainty NOT ONE of the goddam white radicals up the road was there. None of them.

__________

These left wing non-Hispanic White left wing socialists, feminists & other non-Hispanic White left wing radicals didn't show, probably because of this.---

They probably didn't think that they, themselves, would benefit off of United Farm Workers (UFW) protest march.

The actions of these non-Hispanic White left wing socialists, feminists & other non-Hispanic White radicals shows the social strata ladder, pecking order & food chain in the ranks of the political left wing.

Granted, non-Hispanic White leftists have been aligned with "minority" left wing leaders.

But, in each & every one of these instances, the non-Hispanic White leftists have always been in a more dominant position. OVER the minority leaders. Over the minority masses.

Ish Tov ----

I have to step out now. I still have to respond back to a few of your previous posts which you addressed to me on this thread & on that other thread. Hopefully, I should have some time by Thursday. Either way, I'll definitely get back to you.

In the meantime, later.

Johnny wrote:

Savant -----
Before I respond back to your last couple of posts which you addressed to me.---
An observation about the commemoration of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.s August, 1963 March on Washington D.C..----
Did you notice the speakers who were at this gathering?
Did you notice the speeches which were presented at this gathering?
Over 97% of the speeches did NOT deal with African American (Descendants of black American slaves) goals, objectives or interests.
Over 97% of the speeches advocated & pushed for the goals, objectives & interests of these respective entities.----
1. Non-Hispanic White poor.
2. Non-Hispanic White union people.
3. Hispanics goals, objectives & interests.
Primarily for the undocumented Hispanics.
At the gathering in Washington D.C., there were ONLY a few speeches which dealt with African American (Descendants of black American slaves) goals, objectives & interests.
A couple of speeches about Trayvon Martin. A couple of speeches about African American voting rights.
That was it.

I will reply in some detail to your posts. Been away for a couple of days, and will need to go back and read several of your posts.

Johnny wrote:

<quoted text>
__________
Had the 1960s left wing activists had the internet back then.--- I don't think they could have achieved any more.
Because ultimately, it comes down to what concessions the American System will grant.
The American System will grant only certain concessions.
That is it.
The internet has been available to the public since at least 1991.
From 1991 till now.----- These have been the mass left wing movements?----
1. November, 2002 till mid March, 2003.----- Many, many protests throughout the world. Protesting against the proposed Allied invasion of Iraq.
Well, these left wing protests didn't prevent the Allied invasion of Iraq.
2. Mid September, 2011 till mid November, 2011.----- The "Occupy Wall Street" protests.----
These left wing protests failed to achieve any of their goals or objectives.

I do notice that you often speak as though the American system, and its ruling elite, are invulnerable. Eveerything seems to be depend on what they're WILLING to concede. In fact, they've always had to be COMPELLED to make concessions by insurgent popular movements. Two important things to notice:
1. Movements have been able to COMPEL elites to make concession.
2. Elites have been able to make concessions even if only reluctantly.
Point 1 indicates the power of popular movements
Point 2, partly explains why reforms have been forced but revolution elusive.
What if a popular movement arises to compel reforms which the elites can no longer deliver?
Possibly we then either enter the path of fascism, or a popular democratic revolution.
Naturally, I favor the latter possibility, and do whatever I can to usher in the new era of revolution
And I now wonder: Is REVOLTUIONARY NONVIOLENCE possible?

Savant wrote:

<quoted text>In fact, they've always had to be COMPELLED to make concessions by insurgent popular movements. Two important things to notice:
1. Movements have been able to COMPEL elites to make concession.
2. Elites have been able to make concessions even if only reluctantly.
Point 2, partly explains why reforms have been forced but revolution elusive.

__________

Your 5 points above.----- You are correct.

Savant wrote:

<quoted text>Point 1 indicates the power of popular movements

__________

Somewhat true.

In the United States, this has only been the case from 1776 till 1964. That is it.

Examples which show this.----

1. 1776.----

The 13 colonies political left wing.--- Their cause, goals & objectives in 1776 was very just & noble.

The cause, goals & objectives of the political left wing in the 13 colonies back in 1776 was very realistic.

Totally different compared to what the cause, goals & objectives of the United States political left wing has been from 1964 till now.

2. 1840 till 1865.----

The United States political left wing championing the ending of legal slavery was very just & noble.

A very righteous cause.

The political, social & labor issues which were present in the United States from 1840 till 1865 were totally different.

Compared to the political, social & labor issues which have been on the table in the United States from 1964 till now.

Savant ----

Another example.----

3. 1954 till 1964.-----

The African American "Civil Rights Movement".----

What the United States political left wing (Especially the African American political left wing) was fighting, was very just & noble.

Very righteous.

From 1954 till 1964.--- The United States political left wing (Especially the African American political left wing) was fighting against legal discrimination in housing & in job hiring. Fighting to get laws enacted which dealt with the discriminatory practices in not being able to eat at segregated lunch counters, restaurants or in hotels.

The cause of the United States political left wing (Especially for the African American political left wing) from 1954 till 1964 was totally different.

Compared to the political, social & labor issues from 1964 till now.

Savant wrote:

<quoted text>What if a popular movement arises to compel reforms which the elites can no longer deliver?

__________

Not going to happen.

From 1964 till mid November, 2011.----

There have been a few dozen attempts by the United States far left wing to try to get a mass movement for radical left wing change.----

Absolutely every time, it failed. It failed, miserably.

The last time the far left wing attempted this.---

The "Occupy Wall Street Movement".---- The Occupy Wall Street Movement began in mid September, 2011. It last till only mid November, 2011. That was it.

The Occupy Wall Street Movement failed.

Johnny wrote:

<quoted text>
__________
Not going to happen.
From 1964 till mid November, 2011.----
There have been a few dozen attempts by the United States far left wing to try to get a mass movement for radical left wing change.----
Absolutely every time, it failed. It failed, miserably.
The last time the far left wing attempted this.---
The "Occupy Wall Street Movement".---- The Occupy Wall Street Movement began in mid September, 2011. It last till only mid November, 2011. That was it.
The Occupy Wall Street Movement failed.

The sad fact is that people are complacent unless there is an urgent impetus to act.

In the 1960's there was the black civil rights movement, a century after emancipation blacks finally able to organize and maintain resistance to Jim Crow, AND as many whites were becoming sympathetic to the black struggle, along comes the Vietnam War drafting white youth to fight in a SE Asian jungle for ill-defined goals. Et voilà! La résistance!

Now? It's all diffuse, vague, confused and corporate control of the media is far more tight now, so that their brainwashing is more powerful than any “liberal” messages which might appear.

Savant wrote:

<quoted text>What if a popular movement arises to compel reforms which the elites can no longer deliver?

__________

It won't happen. It cannot happen. Because of these very critical factors.-----

1. In the United States, race cannot be transcended.

Each & every one of the United States respective racial groups has their own goals, objectives & interests. Most of all, their own interests.

A left wing movement which comprises of members from a few different racial groups.---- If just one of the racial groups exists out of the alliance, the left wing movement loses all of its momentum. It fails.

2. The United States businesses & American System can always obtain cheap labor from the Spanish speaking nations. Or, from the Anglophone or French / Creole speaking Caribbean black nations.

So, the United States businesses & the American System can always obtain cheap labor. To undercut, phase out & displace the left wing protestors.

Savant wrote:

<quoted text>Possibly we then either enter the path of fascism, or a popular democratic revolution.
Naturally, I favor the latter possibility, and do whatever I can to usher in the new era of revolution.

__________

Well, even with a far left wing movement for radical change.----

African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves) won't benefit.

Since African Americans collectively are at the very bottom of the United States social strata ladder, pecking order & food chain.

From 1955 till 1964.---- When the African American "Civil Rights Movement" was happening.----- African Americans were the United States numerically dominant "minority".

The Civil Rights Movement was able to obtain some change for African Americans benefit. African Americans received assistance. In urban centers with large African American populations, African Americans got jobs in the public sector.

But, African Americans were NOT the main benefactors of the Civil Rights Movement.

These were the main beneficiaries of the Civil Rights Movement.---

1. Non-Hispanic White women.

Non-Hispanic White women received aid.

Non-Hispanic White women got admissions to Universities.

Non-Hispanic White women received Affirmative Action.

Non-Hispanic White women were the main beneficiaries of Affirmative Action.

2. Foreign born immigrants of color.

In the present day, African Americans are not the United States numerically dominant "minority" group.

African Americans proportion & percentage will be going down way more so in years to come. Due to all of the many different public policy initiatives & social engineering policies.

Which are being done AGAINST African Americans (Descendants of black American slaves).

If you are unaware of these public policy initiatives & social engineering policies, I can list them for you.

Savant wrote:

<quoted text>And I now wonder: Is REVOLTUIONARY NONVIOLENCE possible?

__________

No.

Recent mass movements for revolution.----

1. Egypt, February, 2011.--- A mass revolutionary movement, primarily politically left of center & Islamic fundamentalist. There were peaceful protests. But, a lot of violence also.---- Against Egypts Right wing dictator, Hosni Mubarack.

2. Libya, February, 2011 till August, 2011.---- A mass movement revolutionary movement, primarily politically Right of center & Islamic fundamentalist. There were peaceful protests. But, an all out Civil War also.---- Against Libyas left wing dictator, Muammar al-Gadaffi.

Egypts mass revolutionary movement was different than Libyas. Egypts mass revolutionary movement was primarily left wing. Whereas Libyas mass revolutionary movement was primarily Right wing.

The goals, objectives & interests of the revolutionary movements in Egypt & Libya.---- Were totally different.

Compared to what the far left wing attempted in the United States from 1964 till November, 2011.

Ish Tov ----

I still have to respond back to a few of your previous posts which you addressed to me. Hopefully, I should have some time by Tuesday. Either way, I'll definitely get back to you.

In the meantime, later.

Johnny wrote:

Savant ----
You said "Capitalism is coming apart at the seams".---- Not at all. Far from it.
Examples which show this.----
1. The United States, from mid September, 2008 till now.---- Many non-Hispanic Whites have been experiencing economic difficulties.
But, at the same time, many non-Hispanic Whites have made TREMENDOUS profits.
2. Sweden.---- From 1969 till 1985.---- The Swedish government (Especially under Swedens former prime minister, left wing socialist Olaf Palme) embraced & pushed socialism.
Since Olafs death, Swedens government has shifted to the Right wing. Sweden has embraced capitalism.
Within the last decade, all of these respective Western European nations have shifted more to the Right wing. Embraced capitalism.--- Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Italy, Germany, Denmark & Norway.

The rightward political shift of much of the political elite doesn't alter the fact that capitalism is coming apart at the seams. In fact, the right wing shift seeks to stave off the disintegration of a decrepit capitalism, LIberal elites often make concesssions in order to save capitalism, and right wing elites may go inform more REPRESSION and backward policies (including regressive taxation, attacks on rights of labor, people of color or women). But capitalism has already seen its best days.
And the financial crisis of 2008, as well as the emergence of oppositional movements (e.g insurgent labor, Occupy, etc) is probably only a foretaste of what is to come.
Rosa Luxemburg was right, though premature: Either a cooperative society or barbarism. But civilization can no longer be sustained on a capitalist foundation. And as racism and capitalism are inextricable intertwined (at least in America, though probably not just here), the defeat of racism and the defeat of capitalism are mutually dependant. Dr. King was right: Economic injustice is the inseparable twin of racial injustice. Hence my often repeated call: Death to Racism and Plutocracy!
Forward toward a cooperative society--nonracist even if culturally multiracial or multi-ethnic.

Ish Tov wrote:

<quoted text>
The sad fact is that people are complacent unless there is an urgent impetus to act.
In the 1960's there was the black civil rights movement, a century after emancipation blacks finally able to organize and maintain resistance to Jim Crow, AND as many whites were becoming sympathetic to the black struggle, along comes the Vietnam War drafting white youth to fight in a SE Asian jungle for ill-defined goals. Et voilà! La résistance!
Now? It's all diffuse, vague, confused and corporate control of the media is far more tight now, so that their brainwashing is more powerful than any “liberal” messages which might appear.

But we may be nearing what Angela y. Davis calls an "historical moment" when it is possible to move mountains again.
And it may be the attacks from the Right which is prompting this renewal. Occupy, which didn't totally disappear, may be just a foretaste of the future.

Savant wrote:

<quoted text>But we may be nearing what Angela y. Davis calls an "historical moment" when it is possible to move mountains again.
And it may be the attacks from the Right which is prompting this renewal. Occupy, which didn't totally disappear, may be just a foretaste of the future.

Needless to say, I sure hope so!

Ish Tov ----

You said "The sad fact is that people are complacent unless there is an urgent impetus to act".----

True.

But, mainly.--- The respective eras, causes & struggles have to be taken into account.

From 1775 till 1964.---- At 3 different intervals.---- The United States political left wing had very direct causes. They have very direct goals & objectives.

The causes & struggles which the left wing fought from 1775 till 1964.---- Was very just & noble.

But, from 1964 till now.---- The "causes" & "struggles" which the United States political left wing fought.----

They didn't achieve any radical left wing change.