Black populations larger than Black A...
weakaboo

Memphis, TN

#1512 Feb 9, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you said that when generalizing populations, West-Central Africans have contributed little to the development of humanity.
I asked you how the tens of trillions of dollars made by WC African labor constitutes as "little".
How have not answered this.
<quoted text>
Slavery isn't a legitimate form of contribution. Why in the world would someone want credit for being a slave?
That, sir, IS SICK.
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

And I said the treatment of, use and desire for human slaves was neither the equivalent or the same as the treatment of, use and desire for domesticated animals.
<quoted text>
Yes, it was. They were property. Do you know what slave means?
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

Industrial North was still profiting off the cotton of the slaves in the south were still producing, and so was England.
Even as late as the mid 1800s, Britain's "crown jewel" was the West Indies.
You do agree that slavery was wrong, correct?
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

The profits made by enslaved Africans, whether they were made directly by slavers, or indirectly from trade of slave produced materials, slaves still playing the central role throughout.
It is a shameful role sir. Not one which is respected nor deserving of respect.
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

The more major changes and development in Britain happened at the same period of time that the slave trade was at its peak and Britain was one of the countries most heavily involved. Britain also played the biggest role in the trade out of any other European country. It's like you want to make it seem like a coincidence that Britain was developing more rapidly as it gained more profits from the trade. The ports in Bristol and Liverpool became wealthy, more jobs were created, and individuals who became wealthy from the slave trade invested their money into the development of industries.
So much for little contribution.
This is just flat out embarrassing.
Bigsmoke

Wakefield, UK

#1513 Feb 9, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you said that when generalizing populations, West-Central Africans have contributed little to the development of humanity.
I asked you how the tens of trillions of dollars made by WC African labor constitutes as "little".
How have not answered this.
You see where in that statement does it state the ''black race''?

Central-West Africans have contributed little to the development of humanity compared to the other regions-groups I listed.

Central-West African labour has not produced trillions of dollars. This is something you do not get.
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
And I said the treatment of, use and desire for human slaves was neither the equivalent or the same as the treatment of, use and desire for domesticated animals.
It's the equivalent.
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
Industrial North was still profiting off the cotton of the slaves in the south were still producing, and so was England.
Even as late as the mid 1800s, Britain's "crown jewel" was the West Indies.
The profits made by enslaved Africans, whether they were made directly by slavers, or indirectly from trade of slave produced materials, slaves still playing the central role throughout.
The more major changes and development in Britain happened at the same period of time that the slave trade was at its peak and Britain was one of the countries most heavily involved. Britain also played the biggest role in the trade out of any other European country. It's like you want to make it seem like a coincidence that Britain was developing more rapidly as it gained more profits from the trade. The ports in Bristol and Liverpool became wealthy, more jobs were created, and individuals who became wealthy from the slave trade invested their money into the development of industries.
So much for little contribution.
Yes slaves produced cash crops which drove an aspect of the industrial revolution but they wouldn't even be slaves in the first place without being enslaved by their owners and put to such work.

I never said they contributed little to the Americas rather humanity. You need to get it through your skull that the Americas is not humanity rather a small section of it. The same for western Europe.

“Africa”

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Oakland

#1514 Feb 9, 2013
weakaboo wrote:
<quoted text> Slavery isn't a legitimate form of contribution. Why in the world would someone want credit for being a slave?
That, sir, IS SICK.
<quoted text>Yes, it was. They were property. Do you know what slave means?
<quoted text> You do agree that slavery was wrong, correct?
<quoted text> It is a shameful role sir. Not one which is respected nor deserving of respect.
<quoted text> This is just flat out embarrassing.
Look, alright, I'm not sitting up here bragging about my ancestors having been slaves, but I'm not sitting up here like their contributions to this society were illegitimate or worth "little" either.

It's not about "wanting credit". It's about acknowledging facts.

Africans contributed heavily to the development of the Western/New World. Sucks how they did it. I definitely not mind if my ancestors had not been slaves and had not traded other Africans to Europeans and instead, refused to sell at all.

Africa would definitely be a much different place. But that's not what happened and I have to deal with it.

Interpret it how you wish, but this country and the entire western/New World is indebted to those people. Yes, it was wrong. No, it is not something I am grateful for, but it happened, and I'm not going to let you tell me that my ancestors' contributions to this country, forced or not, were "little" compared to anything. You cannot logically or honestly justify tens of trillions of dollars in profits made by Africans as being "little" anything.

Look at it this way. If Jews had our history, they wouldn't be bragging about them having been slaves, but they would sure as hell let you know just how much their ancestors contributed to the development of the world every single chance they were given, just so you don't forget it.

Unlike Blacks though, they wouldn't stay stuck on that, and would actually use that acknowledgement of injustice to serve as inspiration to prevent such a one from ever occurring again through economic empowerment, but that's a different topic.

“Africa”

Level 7

Since: Jan 12

Oakland

#1515 Feb 9, 2013
Bigsmoke wrote:
<quoted text>
You see where in that statement does it state the ''black race''?
Central-West Africans have contributed little to the development of humanity compared to the other regions-groups I listed.
Central-West African labour has not produced trillions of dollars. This is something you do not get.
You said that West Africans have contributed little when generalizing regions. You didn't mention any regions at first. Not after I corrected you.
Bigsmoke wrote:
It's the equivalent.
No it isn't. Name one livestock animal that did all the kind of work slaves did.
Bigsmoke wrote:
Yes slaves produced cash crops which drove an aspect of the industrial revolution but they wouldn't even be slaves in the first place without being enslaved by their owners and put to such work.
I never said they contributed little to the Americas rather humanity. You need to get it through your skull that the Americas is not humanity rather a small section of it. The same for western Europe.
If they contributed to the development of the Western World, and by proxy, the industrial revolution, then they contributed to the development of humanity, and there was nothing little about it. Africans were central to Britain's economy.
Bigsmoke

Wakefield, UK

#1516 Feb 9, 2013
AgentSmith9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do under developed societies still practice forms of entertainment? YES.
What they are paid is relative to the society... but the fact is.. they are still there and still just as important as they have always been. Whether or not the society has the ability to give them vast amounts of wealth is beside the point.
The point is, they are there.. and society places a LARGE value on them. Even in the underdeveloped areas they have the local versions of these men and women that give people .. hope.. enlightenment.. etc..
Does Religion build roads? Does Religion teach children how to split an atom? NO. It doesn't. And hopefully you understand the cultural importance that Society has placed on religion.
Now whether you agree about how people should or shouldn't feel about religion is pointless.. because people and societies have spoken.
Lets stay on subject.

The argument is which is more important to the humanity. Doctors & Engineers or Entertainers? It's clearly the former and their is no real argument for the latter.

Religion aka belief? LMFAO!

Just tell me one thing Michael Jackson (most successful entertainer) and Christianity (largest number of followers) have done for humanity which comes close to Edward Jenner's smallpox vaccination?
weakaboo

Memphis, TN

#1517 Feb 9, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
Look, alright, I'm not sitting up here bragging about my ancestors having been slaves, but I'm not sitting up here like their contributions to this society were illegitimate or worth "little" either.
Captivity isn't contribution sir. If a woman is raped did she contribute her p$ssy?

Contribution: contribution - a VOLUNTARY gift (as of money or service or ideas) made to some worthwhile cause.

Slavery isn't contribution!
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

It's not about "wanting credit". It's about acknowledging facts.
They were slaves. That is the only fact worth mentioning. Now let's move this train and quit trying to legimitimaze slavery.
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

Africans contributed heavily to the development of the Western/New World. Sucks how they did it.
There you go using the word contribute again. SLAVERY IS NOT CONTRIBUTION.
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

I definitely not mind if my ancestors had not been slaves and had not traded other Africans to Europeans and instead, refused to sell at all.
Most slaves were kidnapped. The FEW Africans engaged in the "trade" were Arab/black mixture and often ended up enslaved their damn selves. There was zero respect given to Africans.
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

Africa would definitely be a much different place. But that's not what happened and I have to deal with it.
Africa was a continent under seige long before the ATL.
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

Interpret it how you wish, but this country and the entire western/New World is indebted to those people.
I ask again, do you know what enslavement means?
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

Yes, it was wrong. No, it is not something I am grateful for, but it happened, and I'm not going to let you tell me that my ancestors' contributions to this country, forced or not, were "little" compared to anything.
There is no such thing as a forced contribution. Slavery was more than wrong. It was ungodly.
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

You cannot logically or honestly justify tens of trillions of dollars in profits made by Africans as being "little" anything.
It meant nothing. They were slaves. They were slaves sir.
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

Look at it this way. If Jews had our history, they wouldn't be bragging about them having been slaves, but they would sure as hell let you know just how much their ancestors contributed to the development of the world every single chance they were given, just so you don't forget it.
Jews would never use the word slaves in describing their people. Jews would ban that word and continue to build interdependency so that they could protect themselves better from such a thing. Comparing blacks and Jews is simply an insult...to the Jews.
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>

Unlike Blacks though, they wouldn't stay stuck on that, and would actually use that acknowledgement of injustice to serve as inspiration to prevent such a one from ever occurring again through economic empowerment, but that's a different topic.
I don't disagree with this part except to say the injustice was more on the slave. The slave shouldn't have been so unglodly to allow himself/herself to be a slave in the first place. What type of God did they serve is the real question. The best thing to do is CONCLUDE those people were IDIOTS and FOOLS and quit trying to redo the past. That's the true lesson and our kids need to be taught this and blacks need to move forward much like the Jews in building a NEW identity and SEPARATE from the slave and the slave thinking.
ashanti king

Drexel Hill, PA

#1518 Feb 9, 2013
DISASTER LOOMS wrote:
<quoted text>i dont hate anyone. i just like pushing your buttons.
You hate africans, admit it.

Level 8

Since: Oct 09

Paris France

#1519 Feb 9, 2013
Bigsmoke wrote:
<quoted text>
You see where in that statement does it state the ''black race''?
Central-West Africans have contributed little to the development of humanity compared to the other regions-groups I listed.
Central-West African labour has not produced trillions of dollars. This is something you do not get.

I never said they contributed little to the Americas rather humanity. You need to get it through your skull that the Americas is not humanity rather a small section of it. The same for western Europe.
Sir,

i'm very surprised to read how hard you want to dump West and Central Africans down in human history.
The medieval empires and kingdoms in this big part of Africa were at par with then Medieval kingdoms of Europe : the emperor of ancient Ghana and ancient Mali were certainly wealthier and far more advanced than say the Czar of Russia in the XIV-XVIth centuries or the fragile rulers of Ireland or the Hungarians soon dominated by the Turks.
The skills of artists and craftsmen in the ancient Kingdom of Benin [in Nigeria today] were truly prodigious : we had an exhibition at the Musée du Quai Branly in Paris a few years ago and you would have changed your views when looking at the production from XVth to XVIIIth.
Many American museums have some collections of African art like the Baltimore Museum of Arts : it is less common in Europe but you would see that Western Africa maybe a little less Central Africa had refined artists and could produce objects as precious and delightful as their European or Ottoman counterparts.

Moreover African art - especially from Western Africa precisely - has deeply influenced European modern art : Picasso had a personal collection of African statues and has always paid a tribute to them as very influential in his evolution. That goes for many major European artists between 1900 and 1960 mostly.

It is crystal clear that West African influences - re. Voodoo from Benin - are extremely salient in the whole Latin America among Blacks there and from them to the whole Latin American cultures. You could not get deep into Brazilian and Caribbean cultures without learning about traditional cultures of Western Africa.

As for measuring the contribution of Western and Central Africa to economy, that is rather complex and only a part of human history. Where do you count the West African workers used by the French and British and Belgian colonial empires ? How many majestic buildings in Britain and France (ex. in Bordeaux there was a big exhibition on that) and Belgium were erected on the sweat and death of West Africans and Congolese people ?
Do you want to kill these thousands and thousands of workers twice ?

Analysts today (in Europe and in the USA) consider Africa to be the rising Giant in 2050 along with India and a declining China. Books, magazines, editorials on this rising Africa are everywhere at least in French in the past 5 to 10 years. Western and Central Africans are totally included and Ghana or Nigeria or Ivory Coast or Rwanda are all seen as highly promising.

Ultimately a stronger Union is the key for a bigger contribution of Africa as a whole and that includes Western and Central African countries.

a whiteboi
ashanti king

Drexel Hill, PA

#1520 Feb 9, 2013
DISASTER LOOMS wrote:
<quoted text>notice how nearly all the antagonist are africans? i've noticed a very different (tribal) mindset coming from africans than other blacks in the diaspora, that seems to translate in this impulse to insult and denigrate.

it'll be interesting to see how aa/african relations develop as the african population grows.
There are some Americans, carribeans and Africans.

Notice all the people supporting entertainment above doctors are aas. That's what aas success have been reduced to sports and rapping.
ashanti king

Drexel Hill, PA

#1521 Feb 9, 2013
DISASTER LOOMS wrote:
<quoted text>notice how nearly all the antagonist are africans? i've noticed a very different (tribal) mindset coming from africans than other blacks in the diaspora, that seems to translate in this impulse to insult and denigrate.

it'll be interesting to see how aa/african relations develop as the african population grows.
Most Argument involving blacks has mostly been Africans and Caribbean against aas. Why ist that? Now tell me who is more tribal.
ashanti king

Drexel Hill, PA

#1522 Feb 9, 2013
weakaboo wrote:
<quoted text>Excellent. However, I don't believe the few athletes who exist on a professional level are overpaid. Most sports are youth sports which means the "careers" of these guys doesn't last long at all. Most end up flat broke which is another indication they aren't overpaid. It's a high risk move all the way around the table to get involved with sports like that.
Excellent point.
ashanti king

Drexel Hill, PA

#1523 Feb 9, 2013
AgentSmith9 wrote:
<quoted text>Very true. I've noticed this tribal mindset as well and find it quite alarming. I remember back on the 80's there was a big push by AAs to get in touch with our distant relatives. AAs had no understanding that this tribalist nature exist among Africans.

But as more and more actually interacted with them it became blatantly obvious that while AAs saw us all as ONE, that Africans saw us all all tribes tribes having nothing more in common than blacks and whites.

Africans even practice forms of racism against other blacks as witnessed by Bakari or whatever his name is constant use of the word "boy".

They even have an odd reverence of white men as shown by Ashanti king in his praises that white men are better than Africans.

A very odd group. I think AAs kind of stepped away after realizing that brotherhood is no mat h for tribalism on the eyes of African blacks. So AA don't really celebrate Africa like we used to.
Aas have their own kind of tribalism but u don't realize it. It is much easier to point fingers at Africans. Aas are always fighting about dark skin vs light skin. Up till a certain point most clubs had the paper bag test. Educated blacks vs non educated blacks. These are all tribalism.
ashanti king

Drexel Hill, PA

#1524 Feb 9, 2013
weakaboo wrote:
<quoted text>Blacks, in general, think like this. It isn't compacted to just Africans.
AgentSmith9 wrote, "<quoted text>

Africans even practice forms of racism against other blacks as witnessed by Bakari or whatever his name is constant use of the word "boy"."

So do blacks in other parts of the world, including America.
AgentSmith9 wrote, "<quoted text>

They even have an odd reverence of white men as shown by Ashanti king in his praises that white men are better than Africans."

Blacks in general love whites. It's scary.
AgentSmith9 wrote, "<quoted text>

A very odd group."

Again, this applies to all blacks which is why we are studied so much. We have a way of thinking which is an exception to the rule.
AgentSmith9 wrote, "<quoted text>

I think AAs kind of stepped away after realizing that brotherhood is no mat h for tribalism on the eyes of African blacks. So AA don't really celebrate Africa like we used to. "

AA's never celebrated Africa.
Thank you

Level 8

Since: Oct 09

Paris France

#1525 Feb 9, 2013
ashanti king wrote:
<quoted text>
You hate africans, admit it.
Bo hor to "Asantehene" .... but i won't tell at Kumasi that someone else is keeping the Golden Stool in the USA :-)

Obroni Wu Ti Aseah and still learning (not too) hard to progress.

(Twi is pretty demanding like gari without shito, English is a portion of wakyee in comparison)
Unique2

Macon, GA

#1526 Feb 9, 2013
Shalimarr wrote:
<quoted text>
This is shocking and horrifying to me... but the boy's mother didn't go to the police.
Is this acceptable sexual behaviour for black women in your communities?
Why isn't there more outrage?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =hjl4T_-oM0gXX
Your video comes from an episode of the "Maury Povich Show" dumba$$. The guess on his program are known to be hired actors. Next time choose an actual news link if you want to insult someone. You foreign blacks are so goddamn stupid.
Unique2

Macon, GA

#1527 Feb 9, 2013
*guest

Level 8

Since: Oct 09

Paris France

#1528 Feb 9, 2013
ashanti king wrote:
<quoted text>
There are some Americans, carribeans and Africans.
Notice all the people supporting entertainment above doctors are aas. That's what aas success have been reduced to sports and rapping.
Sir,

i don't think so.

As much as i can list many achievements of Western Africans as i did in a previous post, it's very easy to list major contributions of Black Americans that go far beyond "sports and rapping".
Though you could have a look on Azonto in Ghanaian schools, on Ghanian competitions of rappers .... plenty of clips on Youtube. Rap is a bit like Jazz in the past century : a cultural phenomenon created by AAs that is spreading worldwide, though i do favor jazz much more myself but that's a question of individual taste.

I would not count MLK jr for a game, nor W.E.B. du Bois who settled in Ghana as you know in the end of his life ; i would not count as entertainers Richard Wright, James Balwin the immense Langston Hughes to name just a few luminaries of AA literature universally recognized. Their works still stand a long time after their death. Can we say that a painter too early deceased like Basquiat (a Haitian American) was nothing when his art is given major exhibitions in Europe today ?

Besides if we do not count Barack Obama, his wife Michelle is not a sportswoman or a rapper as you know well. After 1954/1964, there has been a growth in AAs with Ph.D. and all kind of grades in every field.
At least i know this success story of Reginald F. Lewis because i've visited twice the museum built through his foundation in Baltimore (MD):

http://www.rflewismuseum.org/about/reginald-l...

His too short life is extremely interesting : he was an athlete, a brilliant scholar then a business man in law and in industry.

Black people have many talents on both sides of the Atlantic.

a whiteboi
Unique2

Macon, GA

#1529 Feb 9, 2013
DISASTER LOOMS wrote:
<quoted text>
i guess you didn't see the links on salary and unemployment rates for african immigrants, living in the 'richest country in the world'.
africans destroyed liberia, btw.
Excellent post. The guy is retarded, he can't understand that Americo-Liberians are no longer in charge of Liberia and haven't been since 1980. In every thread he brings up Liberia as a symbol of Black American failure.
Unique2

Macon, GA

#1530 Feb 9, 2013
AgentSmith9 wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're comparing the entire health care industry to basketball? Lol... Don't you think it would make more sense to copare it to the amount spent on entertainment since healthcare involves tons of things and not just doctors?
I stated people decide what is important to them, and people make up societies. You're trying to minimalize AA entertainers when you can't. Society has already placed high levels of importance on them.
And like I said before I have just as much respect for AA doctors , engineers etc. But you and, can't minimalize the importance of entertainment in a society. It appears to have and always been a very valued cultural aspect in many societies.
I understand you guys don't want there to be any thing positive about AA, but face it...there is.. and whether people like doctors or Entertainers the most, AA are represented in both.
Well said.
Bigsmoke

Wakefield, UK

#1531 Feb 9, 2013
Bakari Neferu wrote:
<quoted text>
You said that West Africans have contributed little when generalizing regions. You didn't mention any regions at first. Not after I corrected you.
<quoted text>
No it isn't. Name one livestock animal that did all the kind of work slaves did.
<quoted text>
If they contributed to the development of the Western World, and by proxy, the industrial revolution, then they contributed to the development of humanity, and there was nothing little about it. Africans were central to Britain's economy.
You still don't see it.

This was each sides involvement in the Atlantic Slave Trade

Western European: Establishment, Banker, Factory Worker, Merchant, Sailor, Slave Trader, Slave & Consumer.

Central-West African: Slave Trader, Slave & Consumer

Western Europeans created jobs and colonies in the Americas by exploiting millions of central-west Africans and few European & Native American slaves.

What does central-west Africa have to show for it? They've yet to industrialize.

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