Why do Afrocentrists obsess over Egyp...
Jeff

Framingham, MA

#3881 Dec 4, 2012
Redefined wrote:
You guys obviously dunno what ancestral mean. PPL who are ancestral do not have ancestors. All non-Africans have ancestors which pretty much destroy the argument about Asians carrying clads that are older than Africans.
It seems you are the one who doesn't understand haplogroups. Asians are carrying Asian haplogroups that are older because these clades arose in Asia.
Jeff

Framingham, MA

#3882 Dec 4, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
M & N would NOT exist if it wasn't for The African lineages they evolved from. Explain to me how M & N arose??
No one is denying African lineages what you guys don't seen to understand is that AFTER these carriers left Africa they were living outside of Africa in Asia for TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS that gave rise to new haplogroups, i.e. N and M, these clades are NOT African, they did NOT arise in Africa. You guys just can't handle this because they show back migrations from Asia into Africa. You have this dubious notion that people only migrated out of Africa but never back INTO Africa when all evidence including the genetic presence of Asian markers like M and N show migration back and froth continuously.

“Try harder :)”

Level 8

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#3883 Dec 4, 2012
The African origins of mtDNA M1...
http://www.maxwellsci.com/print/crjbs/v2-380-...
trollslayer

Thornton, IL

#3884 Dec 4, 2012
big mike M wrote:
<quoted text>
Or it can be due to European enslavement in North Africa.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/mar/...
this deals with the Moors enslaving Europeans, but the trolls do wanna believe this or deal with it. Many of the euros in N.Africa are slave descendents.

" An American historian says that more than a million Europeans were enslaved by North African slave traders between 1530 and 1780, a time of vigorous Mediterranean and Atlantic coastal piracy."

The racists wanna discredit historian Robert Davis.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/mar/...
Follow us:@washtimes on Twitter
Jeff

Framingham, MA

#3885 Dec 4, 2012
big mike M wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have proof of this? They still can't find an ancestral M in Asia.
Yes, I've posted the studies that show M1 is younger in age then Asian M lineages.

Gonzalez et al.(2007)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1...

Olivieri et al.(2006)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17170302
big mike M wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet M1 has high frequencies in Ethiopia(sub-sahara) and is rare in West Asia, India and Europe.
Yet in Ethiopia there are no ancient basal lineages for M1 like there are in North Africa and the Middle East.
big mike M wrote:
<quoted text>
There is also no derived clades of L3 outside of Africa and L3 is the ancestral lineage of M.
But there are no clades of Haplogroups M in Africa.
big mike M wrote:
<quoted text>
How?
What about this?
"The earliest archaeological evidence on the island is controversial. Hippopotamus bones with cut-marks and evidence of human processing from iron tools have been found in the Mikea Forest, in Madagascar's Southwest, dating to ~2 kyr [21]. eople called Vazimba, who spoke a non-Malagasy language. Pockets of people still known as Vazimba exist among the island's fishermen, and their non-Malagasy lexicon has also been argued to be of Bantu origin [23,26]
What you quoted above doesn't dispute what I posted about the contemporary populations of Madagascar were formed in the last 2,000 years of an admixture between Africans and Asians. If you notice the dating of "~2 kyr" stated in the passage above means dating to the last 2,000 years. "kyr" = thousand years.
Jeff

Framingham, MA

#3886 Dec 4, 2012
big mike M wrote:
The African origins of mtDNA M1...
http://www.maxwellsci.com/print/crjbs/v2-380-...
That's from that fool Clyde Winters.
trollslayer

Thornton, IL

#3887 Dec 4, 2012
Redefined wrote:
This map shows The Maghreb stretches into both Sub-Shara Africa & North Africa!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Berber_Worl...
LOL...but trolls don't wanna deal with this....instead, they wanna believe these euros just magically appeared in Africa and no native Africans could hve ever inhabited N. Africa
trollslayer

Thornton, IL

#3888 Dec 4, 2012
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
So you believe the ancestor of Asians never lived in Africa?? Wouldn't this contradict the African origin of all non-Africans??
check this out. the trolls hate this and will say it's irrelevant.

http://www.google.com/url...

“Try harder :)”

Level 8

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#3889 Dec 4, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
That's from that fool Clyde Winters.
I didn't.:P
Jeff

Framingham, MA

#3890 Dec 4, 2012
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
check this out. the trolls hate this and will say it's irrelevant.
http://www.google.com/url...
Stupid ass, this was explained to your ignorant self time and again. The study isn't claiming the Chinese were 'black Africans' but they were part of the OOA migrations too, which I never disputed, dingleberry. Now how about you learn about human evolution and how genetic markers and phenotypes that arose outside of Africa to give rise to the various phenotypes seen today due to new haplogroups, haplotypes, genes, diets, geographical climates etc.

“Try harder :)”

Level 8

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#3891 Dec 4, 2012
@Jeff

I'm going to end this argument with a agree to disagree. This mtDNA is a very controversial topic which everyone has disagreements. You made some VERY good points but that had me on the ropes.

But I'm still curious about mtDNA arising in Asia. I guess we will have to wait for more new studies to come.:)

I still believe Berbers are native African due to them show low frequencies of U6 and I still believe their orgins are NE African.

Anyways going to end this with a agree-disagree. Because we're just going to go in circles and we both have strong opinions. Nice arguing with you.:)

“Try harder :)”

Level 8

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#3892 Dec 4, 2012
big mike M wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't.:P
*I didn't know.
trollslayer

Thornton, IL

#3893 Dec 4, 2012
big mike M wrote:
The African origins of mtDNA M1...
http://www.maxwellsci.com/print/crjbs/v2-380-...
REFERENCES
Aravanan,, 1976. Physical and cultural similarities
between Dravidians and Africans. J. Tamil Stud., 10:
23-27. Aravanan, K.P., 1979. Dravidians
to.......

Wai-Ogusu, A., 1973. Was there a Sangoan industry....

There's tons of footnotes /REFERENCES from K.P.Aravanan to A.Wai-Ogusu, in your link supporting The African origins of mtDNA M1, yet because the troll hate Winters, they will try to discredit your sources....smh
trollslayer

Thornton, IL

#3894 Dec 4, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Stupid ass, this was explained to your ignorant self time and again. The study isn't claiming the Chinese were 'black Africans' but they were part of the OOA migrations too, which I never disputed, dingleberry. Now how about you learn about human evolution and how genetic markers and phenotypes that arose outside of Africa to give rise to the various phenotypes seen today due to new haplogroups, haplotypes, genes, diets, geographical climates etc.
look bytch YOU or no one else here can "explain" shyt to me. I will DECIDE whats facual and not factual based on MY studies & reseach, NOT YOU. When the first man entered China he was of direct African decent. Later thru admixture he became what he is today. I will stick to this. I don't give fck what YOU say cuz it doesn't matter 2 me. I know the truth. UR totally wasting ur and my time
Jeff

Framingham, MA

#3895 Dec 4, 2012
big mike M wrote:
@Jeff
I'm going to end this argument with a agree to disagree. This mtDNA is a very controversial topic which everyone has disagreements. You made some VERY good points but that had me on the ropes.
But I'm still curious about mtDNA arising in Asia. I guess we will have to wait for more new studies to come.:)
I still believe Berbers are native African due to them show low frequencies of U6 and I still believe their orgins are NE African.
Anyways going to end this with a agree-disagree. Because we're just going to go in circles and we both have strong opinions. Nice arguing with you.:)
Same to you, big mike.:)
Barros Serrano

United States

#3896 Dec 4, 2012
big mike M wrote:
@Jeff
I'm going to end this argument with a agree to disagree. This mtDNA is a very controversial topic which everyone has disagreements. You made some VERY good points but that had me on the ropes.
But I'm still curious about mtDNA arising in Asia. I guess we will have to wait for more new studies to come.:)
I still believe Berbers are native African due to them show low frequencies of U6 and I still believe their orgins are NE African.
Anyways going to end this with a agree-disagree. Because we're just going to go in circles and we both have strong opinions. Nice arguing with you.:)
“Belief” does not trump EVIDENCE.

There is solid evidence of U6 and other Eurasian markers in the Maghreb at 30k yrs ago.

The earliest African markers in the Maghreb show up at 20k yrs ago.

And EVERY genome analysis from any date shows 100% or a majority of Eurasian markers.

I don't know how this could be any more clear.
trollslayer

Thornton, IL

#3897 Dec 4, 2012
big mike M wrote:
<quoted text>
*I didn't know.
IT shouldn't matter who you use to bring forth ur points as long as it's well footnoted & referenced.

There's tons of footnotes /REFERENCES from K.P.Aravanan to A.Wai-Ogusu, in your link supporting The African origins of mtDNA M1, yet because the troll hate Winters, they will try to discredit your sources....smh
Barros Serrano

United States

#3898 Dec 4, 2012
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
REFERENCES
Aravanan,, 1976. Physical and cultural similarities
between Dravidians and Africans. J. Tamil Stud., 10:
23-27. Aravanan, K.P., 1979. Dravidians
to.......
Wai-Ogusu, A., 1973. Was there a Sangoan industry....
There's tons of footnotes /REFERENCES from K.P.Aravanan to A.Wai-Ogusu, in your link supporting The African origins of mtDNA M1, yet because the troll hate Winters, they will try to discredit your sources....smh
Dravidians are as Eurasian as any other Eurasians.

“Similarities”, lol. Their DNA is Eurasian.

Their Y-DNA is L. Descends from K, which descends from IJK (which is also the parent of Mideastern-Maghrebian J and European I).

Since you've lost on the Maghreb, of course you jump to somewhere else and start up the same bull$hit. This is the Afronazi pattern. You will lose on the Dravidians, then you'll be back to China.

You always lose.

Loser.
Barros Serrano

United States

#3899 Dec 4, 2012
trollslayer wrote:
<quoted text>
IT shouldn't matter who you use to bring forth ur points as long as it's well footnoted & referenced.
There's tons of footnotes /REFERENCES from K.P.Aravanan to A.Wai-Ogusu, in your link supporting The African origins of mtDNA M1, yet because the troll hate Winters, they will try to discredit your sources....smh
Jeff already explained this, that the oldest M is in Asia. M1 is more recent. If it's in Africa, it's due to back-migration (a term you HATE lol!!!).

Again you have nothing. As always. Nothing.

And of course you can list references all day, but we know from experience that you misrepresent everything you cite, and fail to grasp what you are reading.

Either that or you're ALWAYS lying. It is obvious that often you lie, but I'm beginning to think that's all you do.

Loser.

“No Substitute For The Truth”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

Orlando, FL

#3900 Dec 4, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
No one is denying African lineages what you guys don't seen to understand is that AFTER these carriers left Africa they were living outside of Africa in Asia for TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS that gave rise to new haplogroups, i.e. N and M, these clades are NOT African, they did NOT arise in Africa. You guys just can't handle this because they show back migrations from Asia into Africa. You have this dubious notion that people only migrated out of Africa but never back INTO Africa when all evidence including the genetic presence of Asian markers like M and N show migration back and froth continuously.
The only thing that separate the Asian & African marker is one being mutated while the other one isn't but they are still related. Markers do NOT disappear which is why geneticists can still trace them back.

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