Who Are The Real Children Of Israel?

[Eric]

hillbillyboy wrote:

Who are the real children of Israel? Why dont we just let God show us?
From Zechariah chapter 2:
Verse 8...For this is what the L-rd Almighty says: "After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you--for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye--
9...I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the L-rd Almighty has sent me.
10..."Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the L-rd.
11..."Many nations will be joined with the L-rd in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the L-rd Almighty has sent me to you.
So there we go. A Divine Messiah (identified here as The L-rd) sent by The L-rd.
That is about as good a trinitarian doctrine as I have ever seen. And right out of the pages of the tanakh.

And, what Hebrew word do you say is being translated as The L-rd sent by The L-rd?

[SeasideSoon]

hillbillyboy wrote:

Who are the real children of Israel? Why dont we just let God show us?
From Zechariah chapter 2:
Verse 8...For this is what the LORD Almighty says: "After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you--for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye--
9...I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me.
10..."Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the LORD.
11..."Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you.
So there we go. A Divine Messiah (identified here as The Lord) sent by The Lord.
That is about as good a trinitarian doctrine as I have ever seen. And right out of the pages of the tanakh.

Even better is the description of Jesus in Zechariah 13..

1. On that day, a spring shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for purification and for sprinkling.
2. And it shall come to pass on that day, says the Lord of Hosts: I will cut off the names of the idols from the earth, and they shall no longer be mentioned. And also the prophets and the spirit of contamination I will remove from the earth.
3. And it shall come to pass, if a man still prophesies, that his father and his mother-his parents-shall say to him, "You shall not live, for you have spoken falsely in the name of the Lord." And his father and his mother-his parents-shall thrust him through because of his prophesying.
4. And it shall come to pass on that day that the prophets shall be ashamed, each one of his vision when he prophesies; and they will not wear a hairy mantle in order to lie.
5. And he shall say, "I am not a prophet! I am a tiller of the soil, for a man entrusted me with his cattle from my youth."

6. And one will say to him, "What are these wounds between your hands?" And he shall say, "That I was smitten in the house of my friends."

7. O sword, awaken against My shepherd and against the man who is associated with Me! says the Lord of Hosts. Smite the shepherd, and the flock shall scatter, and I will return My hand upon the little ones.

I separated verse 6, since that is the verse used by Christians to 'prove' the crucifiction. Read in context,(something not normally practiced by Christians) it doesn't look so good for your messiah for leading people into a pagan religion.

[hillbillyboy]

SeasideSoon wrote:

<quoted text>Even better is the description of Jesus in Zechariah 13..
1. On that day, a spring shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for purification and for sprinkling.
2. And it shall come to pass on that day, says the Lord of Hosts: I will cut off the names of the idols from the earth, and they shall no longer be mentioned. And also the prophets and the spirit of contamination I will remove from the earth.
3. And it shall come to pass, if a man still prophesies, that his father and his mother-his parents-shall say to him, "You shall not live, for you have spoken falsely in the name of the Lord." And his father and his mother-his parents-shall thrust him through because of his prophesying.
4. And it shall come to pass on that day that the prophets shall be ashamed, each one of his vision when he prophesies; and they will not wear a hairy mantle in order to lie.
5. And he shall say, "I am not a prophet! I am a tiller of the soil, for a man entrusted me with his cattle from my youth."
6. And one will say to him, "What are these wounds between your hands?" And he shall say, "That I was smitten in the house of my friends."
7. O sword, awaken against My shepherd and against the man who is associated with Me! says the Lord of Hosts. Smite the shepherd, and the flock shall scatter, and I will return My hand upon the little ones.
I separated verse 6, since that is the verse used by Christians to 'prove' the crucifiction. Read in context,(something not normally practiced by Christians) it doesn't look so good for your messiah for leading people into a pagan religion.

This is a Messianic prophecy of the end times. False prophets will be killed.

[hillbillyboy]

Eric wrote:

<quoted text>
And, what Hebrew word do you say is being translated as The L-rd sent by The L-rd?

Adonai

[Frijoles]

hillbillyboy wrote:

<quoted text>
This is a Messianic prophecy of the end times. False prophets will be killed.

Funny how you never quote the verses against paganism

[hillbillyboy]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
Funny how you never quote the verses against paganism

I was asked what I think, and I told it.

Perhaps you think the verse is about Jesus? Maybe you are right, I dont know. Im open to your thoughts on it. Maybe you can convince me, who knows?

Some scriptures are difficult to interpret. We should pray about it and ask God to show us the understanding, if it pleases Him to do so.

So, I will listen to your thoughts on that scripture. What do you think it means?

I do find it possible that it may describe a false Messiah who is trying to pretend to be Jesus, with the wounds in his hands. Interesting that Zechariah would know about that, centuries before the crucifixion.

But Zechariah was a true prophet of YHWH.

[Frijoles]

hillbillyboy wrote:

<quoted text>
I was asked what I think, and I told it.
Perhaps you think the verse is about Jesus? Maybe you are right, I dont know. Im open to your thoughts on it. Maybe you can convince me, who knows?
Some scriptures are difficult to interpret. We should pray about it and ask God to show us the understanding, if it pleases Him to do so.
So, I will listen to your thoughts on that scripture. What do you think it means?
I do find it possible that it may describe a false Messiah who is trying to pretend to be Jesus, with the wounds in his hands. Interesting that Zechariah would know about that, centuries before the crucifixion.
But Zechariah was a true prophet of YHWH.

Start with a better translation and maybe we can talk. Or not.

[Eric]

hillbillyboy wrote:

<quoted text>
Adonai

And, where is the word adonai in Zekharia 2:8-11?

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2302.htm

http://jewishroots.net/images/hebrew_words/he...

[SeasideSoon]

hillbillyboy wrote:

<quoted text>
This is a Messianic prophecy of the end times. False prophets will be killed.

Wow, deja vu. There goes the second coming. I thought you Christians liked the verse about 'wounds in my hands' Oh,look look, here's another verse about Jesus.

[NotQuiter]

MAAT wrote:

av strenght of out tent/house father.
In September of 2007 A Mechanical Translation of the Book of Genesis , the first installment of this new translation, was published. Below is an excerpt from this translation (Genesis 1:27) which will demonstrate its usefulness in proper Biblical interpretation.
Mechanical Translation: and~ he~ will~ Fatten "Elohiym [Powers]" At the~ Human in~ Image~ him in~ Image "Elohiym [Powers]" he~ did~ Fatten At~ him Male and~ Female and~ he~ will~ Fatten At~ them(m)
Revised Mechanical Translation: and "Elohiym [Powers]" fattened the human in his image, in the image of "Elohiym [Powers]" he fattened him, male and female he fattened them,
To get a more Hebraic understanding of this verse I have included the dictionary entry for a few of the words found in the Mechanical Translation.
Fatten: To make more substantial, fleshy or plump. fatten or fill up. The filling of the earth in Genesis 1 with sun, moon, plants, animals, etc. And the filling of man with life and the image of God.
in~: A preposition meaning in or with.
Image: A reproduction or imitation of the form of a person or thing. The form of something as a shadow of the original.
With the help of the translation and dictionary we find that this verse can be interpreted as "And Elohiym filled the human with his shadow, with the shadow of Elohiym he filled him, male and female he filled them." With this interpretation we could say that Elohiym placed a representation of himself (his shadow) within the man and woman.

With all due respect, I give up. I'm leaving the course and forfeit any credits I may have received. Have a nice night/day, MAAT! Maybe one day I'll be at your level of learning.

[SeasideSoon]

NotQuiter wrote:

<quoted text>With all due respect, I give up. I'm leaving the course and forfeit any credits I may have received. Have a nice night/day, MAAT! Maybe one day I'll be at your level of learning.

Yes, Maat has an amazing capacity to study numerous topics at a time, and connect the dots.

[Punchojr]

hillbillyboy wrote:

Who are the real children of Israel? Why dont we just let God show us?
From Zechariah chapter 2:
Verse 8...For this is what the LORD Almighty says: "After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you--for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye--
9...I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me.
10..."Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the LORD.
11..."Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you.
So there we go. A Divine Messiah (identified here as The Lord) sent by The Lord.
That is about as good a trinitarian doctrine as I have ever seen. And right out of the pages of the tanakh.

Its funny you put that because the scripture about dispersed among the rivers of Ethiopia he refered to them as Daughters of Zion.

[NotQuiter]

SeasideSoon wrote:

<quoted text>Yes, Maat has an amazing capacity to study numerous topics at a time, and connect the dots.

ok, so you say. I can't connect the dots when there is no picture.:-) But maybe MAAT can connect the dots, however they are not numbered in an order and way that I can follow. Therefore, I will just say I dropped out of her course. Now if I understood what she was saying, maybe I would try to stay. But just like it's hard to understand words written with only consonants, or big sections of a sentence left out, so it is when I cannot see the numbers to connect any dots which make a picture.:-) Or at least see the starting number, with a connecting dot in order after that. Well, perhaps you get the point.:-)

[NotQuiter]

Then again, there are some people that I don't even try to figure out what they're saying. At least with MAAT, I can't say I didn't try. I tried. I feel like Ann Curry here, saying goodbye to her place on the Morning Show. Except I'm smiling and laughing.

[SeasideSoon]

NotQuiter wrote:

<quoted text>ok, so you say. I can't connect the dots when there is no picture.:-) But maybe MAAT can connect the dots, however they are not numbered in an order and way that I can follow. Therefore, I will just say I dropped out of her course. Now if I understood what she was saying, maybe I would try to stay. But just like it's hard to understand words written with only consonants, or big sections of a sentence left out, so it is when I cannot see the numbers to connect any dots which make a picture.:-) Or at least see the starting number, with a connecting dot in order after that. Well, perhaps you get the point.:-)

I still have to give Maat due credit for being on an English forum and holding her own, without an agenda. It will be a few more years before I'm brave enough to tackle a forum in modern Hebrew. That's gives me an idea,(study)- there may a a messianic forum in Hebrew.:))

[hillbillyboy]

Eric wrote:

<quoted text>
And, where is the word adonai in Zekharia 2:8-11?
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2302.htm
http://jewishroots.net/images/hebrew_words/he...

Here is a nice song version based on Zechariah 2,(and yes, adonai is the word used).

The video is great though. Its actually a quite pretty song,well worth listening too.

Zechariah 2, Zakharyah (God Remembers).mp4 - YouTube
&#9658; 5:52&#9658; 5:52

www.youtube.com/watch...

[Judah Ben Levi]

Punchojr wrote:

<quoted text>
Its funny you put that because the scripture about dispersed among the rivers of Ethiopia he refered to them as Daughters of Zion.

(KJV)Zephaniah 3:10, 20
From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.

[20] At that time will I bring you again , even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the Lord .

[Judah Ben Levi]

Punchojr wrote:

<quoted text>
Its funny you put that because the scripture about dispersed among the rivers of Ethiopia he refered to them as Daughters of Zion.

Beyond not among. Big difference.

[SamBee]

Eric wrote:

<quoted text>
And, where is the word adonai in Zekharia 2:8-11?
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2302.htm
http://jewishroots.net/images/hebrew_words/he...

You know the vowel points let the reader know to pronounce Adonai instead of the Most High's Name YHUH.Your a snake because you know when you read that text or any other text with Yahuah's Name your told to say Adonai or Elohiym now you just say Ha Shem which is all based on a superstiton of speaking the name of the Most High.

[hillbillyboy]

SamBee wrote:

<quoted text>
You know the vowel points let the reader know to pronounce Adonai instead of the Most High's Name YHUH.Your a snake because you know when you read that text or any other text with Yahuah's Name your told to say Adonai or Elohiym now you just say Ha Shem which is all based on a superstiton of speaking the name of the Most High.

Indeed. I know of no scripture that says we cannot write the word God, or even say the name YHWH or Adonai.

The commandment is to not take the Lords name in vain.

But if we say the Lords name in correct usage, there is no sin. The Jews made up additional rules which God did not ordain. But God has no respect for these man-made superstitions. God spoke through the prophet Isaiah on this matter:

Isaiah 28:10..."For it is: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there."

11..."Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people,

12...to whom he said, "This is the resting place, let the weary rest"; and, "This is the place of repose"--but they would not listen.

13...So then, the word of the LORD to them will become: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there--so that they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured."

Isaiah 28:10-13

And now this fellow tries to use the made made rules about vowel pointers to confuse and distort the Word of God? This form of deceit does not come from God.

..."Those who guide this people mislead them, and those who are guided are led astray."...Isaiah 9:16