Noah said to Ham 'Cursed be Canaan'

Noah said to Ham 'Cursed be Canaan'

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“Eagle eye”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#1 Oct 30, 2008
My question is 'who is Canaan'

We know that Canaan was one of the sons of Ham. ANd Noah cursed him because Ham did something very offensive (not sure what that is) but the bible called it 'uncovering his father's nakedness'. But I have been wondering about the identity of Canaan? Ham had 3 other sons, Cush, Mizraim, and Put.

Canaan went on to be the father of the seven mighty nations which were to become Israels biggest enemies. See Genesis 10:15-20.Remember that these descendants of Canaan occupied the area that God had 'given' to the Isrealites. The Isrealites were to displace them.

If you consider that the land occupied by the Canaanites was from Sidon to Gerar and as far as Gaza, can we truly say that Canaan was the father of blacks (Africans).

Let me back-track...

The curse Noah placed on Canaan said this

Genesis 9:24
So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. 25 Then he said:
“ Cursed be Canaan;
A servant of servants
He shall be to his brethren.”

26 And he said:
“ Blessed be the LORD,
The God of Shem,
And may Canaan be his servant.

27 May God enlarge Japheth,
And may he dwell in the tents of Shem;
And may Canaan be his servant.”
28 And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. 29 So all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years; and he died.

As we can see, Noah cursed Canaan only and blessed his sons Japheth and Shem saying that Canaan would even be their slave.

Now many scholars have said of this verse that this was the black nation. They said that Canaan had to have been the black nation because it is only the black nation that have been slaves.

However it is well known that many other nations throughout history have been slaves,even Celtics,Britons, Germans etc

I doubt that Canaanites were black(African)simply because of where they were situated geographically.

Could it be that black people have lived under a false curse?

I am reminded of the scripture that say 'as a man thinks so shall he be'
Could it be that we have accepted this lie that we were cursed by Noah and therefore by GOd and because it is how we thought/think, therefore its what we have become.

The bible also says that 'people perish from lack of knowledge'
Have we believed racist scholars when they told us that we are cursed by GOd to be slaves?

Would knowing that it wasn't us, change our slave mentality and our low self esteem?

I am inviting people who can add some biblical/historical insight into this.

No trolls please.
JasperSpayde

Centerville, MA

#2 Oct 30, 2008
No the Canaanites had may well know tribes and they were know to have had straight black hair and tawny skin.

“Eagle eye”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#3 Oct 31, 2008
JasperSpayde wrote:
No the Canaanites had may well know tribes and they were know to have had straight black hair and tawny skin.
yes probably. any idea on who they may be today?
anim

UK

#4 Nov 6, 2008
Firstly Canaan is as you say. Who they are today I know not, but it is something I am looking in to it I have an idea but not certain.

Certainly as you say all if any blacks are not Canaan. It is rabbinic writings such as the Talmud which classify them as this and comments portray them in a derogatory way.

Now just as a matter of interest. Nimrod who firstly was supposed to be a rebel according to history, actually in the Hebrew it reads very differently.

It appears he is favoured by G-D and not a rebel as we are led to believe. Secondly it is claimed he built the tower of Babel when there is no mention of his name in Torah doing so. I think it would mention this and especially if he was a rebel.

With reference to slaves well it is true that blacks along with others do fit the curses of the Torah, so it is a thought worth pondering over.

Finally some more food for thought the word used to describe Japeth's enlargement is not enlarge but in Hebrew entice or as near as that. Enlarge everywhere else in the Tanakh is a completely different word in the Hebrew.

If I find out any more I will post it here. I end on this NT is fabricated OT/Tanakh is the only truth, period.
youngin

Midlothian, IL

#5 Nov 6, 2008
Janine for Truth wrote:
My question is 'who is Canaan'
We know that Canaan was one of the sons of Ham. ANd Noah cursed him because Ham did something very offensive (not sure what that is) but the bible called it 'uncovering his father's nakedness'. But I have been wondering about the identity of Canaan? Ham had 3 other sons, Cush, Mizraim, and Put.
Canaan went on to be the father of the seven mighty nations which were to become Israels biggest enemies. See Genesis 10:15-20.Remember that these descendants of Canaan occupied the area that God had 'given' to the Isrealites. The Isrealites were to displace them.
If you consider that the land occupied by the Canaanites was from Sidon to Gerar and as far as Gaza, can we truly say that Canaan was the father of blacks (Africans).
Let me back-track...
The curse Noah placed on Canaan said this
Genesis 9:24
So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. 25 Then he said:
“ Cursed be Canaan;
A servant of servants
He shall be to his brethren.”
26 And he said:
“ Blessed be the LORD,
The God of Shem,
And may Canaan be his servant.
27 May God enlarge Japheth,
And may he dwell in the tents of Shem;
And may Canaan be his servant.”
28 And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. 29 So all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years; and he died.
As we can see, Noah cursed Canaan only and blessed his sons Japheth and Shem saying that Canaan would even be their slave.
Now many scholars have said of this verse that this was the black nation. They said that Canaan had to have been the black nation because it is only the black nation that have been slaves.
However it is well known that many other nations throughout history have been slaves,even Celtics,Britons, Germans etc
I doubt that Canaanites were black(African)simply because of where they were situated geographically.
Could it be that black people have lived under a false curse?
I am reminded of the scripture that say 'as a man thinks so shall he be'
Could it be that we have accepted this lie that we were cursed by Noah and therefore by GOd and because it is how we thought/think, therefore its what we have become.
The bible also says that 'people perish from lack of knowledge'
Have we believed racist scholars when they told us that we are cursed by GOd to be slaves?
Would knowing that it wasn't us, change our slave mentality and our low self esteem?
I am inviting people who can add some biblical/historical insight into this.
No trolls please.
What makes you think he's the father of blacks? It's not Canaan, it's Ham who was the father of africans.
ubee wrote:
Four Sons of Ham
1. Mizraim (Egypt)
2. Cush (Sudan, Ethiopia)
3. Put (Lybia)
4. Canaan (Hivites, Jebusites, Arvadites, Girgashites, Amorites, Arkites, Sinites, Hittites,
Sidonians, Perizzites, Zemarites)
Come from one of those groups
youngin

Midlothian, IL

#6 Nov 6, 2008
Janine for Truth wrote:
Would knowing that it wasn't us, change our slave mentality and our low self esteem?
I am inviting people who can add some biblical/historical insight into this.
No trolls please.
The slave mentality and low self esteem that blacks have is from slavery and eurocentrism
youngin

Midlothian, IL

#7 Nov 6, 2008
Oh and the quote i posted about the sons of Ham was from a another poster, so im not saying it's true
ubee wrote:
Four Sons of Ham
1. Mizraim (Egypt)
2. Cush (Sudan, Ethiopia)
3. Put (Lybia)
4. Canaan (Hivites, Jebusites, Arvadites, Girgashites, Amorites, Arkites, Sinites, Hittites,
Sidonians, Perizzites, Zemarites)
Come from one of those groups

“Eagle eye”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#8 Nov 9, 2008
youngin wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes you think he's the father of blacks? It's not Canaan, it's Ham who was the father of africans.
<quoted text>
Do you have biblical proof or such to prove that Ham was in fact the father of African? He did have four sons you know. Of which Canaan was cursed. the descendants of Canaan occupied the land that the Isrealites would later claim as their own and overthrow the occupants.

“We are what we think!!!!!!!!!!”

Level 6

Since: Aug 08

Anger has no eyes!

#9 Nov 10, 2008
Wow! I'm surprised, do you read bible considering it as HISTORY BOOK ?

I've read many religious book but I don't consider them as History books. They were written to support certain people of that time. Religions were politics of yesterday when LAW AND ORDER were difficult to achieve without making people fearful. Fear God or see consequences.

Yes, Fear of the Lord was beginning of wisdom for unwise people. Though wise men with conscience didn't have to fear God because his conscience was his guiding light.
Janine for Truth wrote:
My question is 'who is Canaan'
We know that Canaan was one of the sons of Ham. ANd Noah cursed him because Ham did something very offensive (not sure what that is) but the bible called it 'uncovering his father's nakedness'. But I have been wondering about the identity of Canaan? Ham had 3 other sons, Cush, Mizraim, and Put.
Canaan went on to be the father of the seven mighty nations which were to become Israels biggest enemies. See Genesis 10:15-20.Remember that these descendants of Canaan occupied the area that God had 'given' to the Isrealites. The Isrealites were to displace them.
If you consider that the land occupied by the Canaanites was from Sidon to Gerar and as far as Gaza, can we truly say that Canaan was the father of blacks (Africans).
Let me back-track...
The curse Noah placed on Canaan said this
Genesis 9:24
So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. 25 Then he said:
“ Cursed be Canaan;
A servant of servants
He shall be to his brethren.”
26 And he said:
“ Blessed be the LORD,
The God of Shem,
And may Canaan be his servant.
27 May God enlarge Japheth,
And may he dwell in the tents of Shem;
And may Canaan be his servant.”
28 And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. 29 So all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years; and he died.
As we can see, Noah cursed Canaan only and blessed his sons Japheth and Shem saying that Canaan would even be their slave.
Now many scholars have said of this verse that this was the black nation. They said that Canaan had to have been the black nation because it is only the black nation that have been slaves.
However it is well known that many other nations throughout history have been slaves,even Celtics,Britons, Germans etc
I doubt that Canaanites were black(African)simply because of where they were situated geographically.
Could it be that black people have lived under a false curse?
I am reminded of the scripture that say 'as a man thinks so shall he be'
Could it be that we have accepted this lie that we were cursed by Noah and therefore by GOd and because it is how we thought/think, therefore its what we have become.
The bible also says that 'people perish from lack of knowledge'
Have we believed racist scholars when they told us that we are cursed by GOd to be slaves?
Would knowing that it wasn't us, change our slave mentality and our low self esteem?
I am inviting people who can add some biblical/historical insight into this.
No trolls please.

“Eagle eye”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#10 Nov 10, 2008
EkDesiLadki wrote:
Wow! I'm surprised, do you read bible considering it as HISTORY BOOK ?
I've read many religious book but I don't consider them as History books. They were written to support certain people of that time. Religions were politics of yesterday when LAW AND ORDER were difficult to achieve without making people fearful. Fear God or see consequences.
Yes, Fear of the Lord was beginning of wisdom for unwise people. Though wise men with conscience didn't have to fear God because his conscience was his guiding light.
<quoted text>
ummm ...yeah...

and back to the subject at hand... i am not into arguing with you. this is for people who believe in the bible. not others.

bye

“We are what we think!!!!!!!!!!”

Level 6

Since: Aug 08

Anger has no eyes!

#11 Nov 10, 2008
I do believe in Bible. I ONLY believe in NEW testament as BIBLE. My uncle who is a priest in Vatican gave me bible blessed by holy pope and it only has new testament. LOL! old testament is bedtime story book for me. The God who is portrayed in old testament is eye-for-eye god vs the one in new testament who is more loving and compassionate to his people. God who is forgiving and who wanted to give his own son for us.

It's difficult to believe that both can be the face of ONE GOD. God shows our love in various invisible ways. I believe in one God whom we can't see but we can experience everyday. Religion only teaches us certain way of life but they aren't 100% bullet proof. Blindly following religion so far made people only racist. Thanks.
Janine for Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
ummm ...yeah...
and back to the subject at hand... i am not into arguing with you. this is for people who believe in the bible. not others.
bye

“Eagle eye”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#12 Nov 10, 2008
EkDesiLadki wrote:
I do believe in Bible. I ONLY believe in NEW testament as BIBLE. My uncle who is a priest in Vatican gave me bible blessed by holy pope and it only has new testament. LOL! old testament is bedtime story book for me. The God who is portrayed in old testament is eye-for-eye god vs the one in new testament who is more loving and compassionate to his people. God who is forgiving and who wanted to give his own son for us.
It's difficult to believe that both can be the face of ONE GOD. God shows our love in various invisible ways. I believe in one God whom we can't see but we can experience everyday. Religion only teaches us certain way of life but they aren't 100% bullet proof. Blindly following religion so far made people only racist. Thanks.
<quoted text>
well then the prerequisites for this debate is belief in both the old and new testaments as the complete word of GOd. If you have something to add about Canaan, feel free to do so. The thing is I dont want to argue about the authenticity of something i believe in wholly. For me the GOd of the old and new testament is the same. And I accept the many facets of God AND I believe the bible to be absolutely true.
Anim

UK

#13 Nov 11, 2008
EkDesiLadki wrote:
I do believe in Bible. I ONLY believe in NEW testament as BIBLE. My uncle who is a priest in Vatican gave me bible blessed by holy pope and it only has new testament. LOL! old testament is bedtime story book for me. The God who is portrayed in old testament is eye-for-eye god vs the one in new testament who is more loving and compassionate to his people. God who is forgiving and who wanted to give his own son for us.
It's difficult to believe that both can be the face of ONE GOD. God shows our love in various invisible ways. I believe in one God whom we can't see but we can experience everyday. Religion only teaches us certain way of life but they aren't 100% bullet proof. Blindly following religion so far made people only racist. Thanks.
<quoted text>
According to the NT it is supposed to be the same G-D is it not?
1. Your postings show you believe in an alternative belief.
2. You can not say you believe in NT but disregard OT for your own selfish purposes.
3. If you want to know the attributes of the G-D of the OT read Exodus 34:5-10
9I reject the NT and practice OT).

“We are what we think!!!!!!!!!!”

Level 6

Since: Aug 08

Anger has no eyes!

#14 Nov 11, 2008
OT is Judaism. NT is Christianity. THOUGH THE GOD IS JUST ONE, most crimes in the world have been committed in name of religion. People become blind because they believe their faith is superior.

I can't believe in God who'll punish innocent children whatever the reason it may be.
Anim wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the NT it is supposed to be the same G-D is it not?
1. Your postings show you believe in an alternative belief.
2. You can not say you believe in NT but disregard OT for your own selfish purposes.
3. If you want to know the attributes of the G-D of the OT read Exodus 34:5-10
9I reject the NT and practice OT).
EritreanKING

Amsterdam, Netherlands

#15 Nov 11, 2008
How can blacks become christian when bible is so racist book?
Did Jesus have a black disciple?!
youngin

Woodridge, IL

#17 Nov 11, 2008
Janine for Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have biblical proof or such to prove that Ham was in fact the father of African? He did have four sons you know. Of which Canaan was cursed. the descendants of Canaan occupied the land that the Isrealites would later claim as their own and overthrow the occupants.
i think your a troll! i quoted someone who had a post who his sons were and you completely ignored it, i said i didn't know if it was true or not but youi didn't even make a post addressing it,.. it sounds like your trying to make it seem like Canaan was the father of africans when it was Ham instead

Level 2

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#18 Nov 11, 2008
Canaan was the name for the region that included today's Israel and Lebanon, Palestine and connecting coastal lands and parts of Jordan, Syria and northeastern Egypt. Canaan extended from Lebanon southward across Gaza to the Jordan River Valley.

“Eagle eye”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#19 Nov 11, 2008
youngin wrote:
<quoted text>
i think your a troll! i quoted someone who had a post who his sons were and you completely ignored it, i said i didn't know if it was true or not but you didn't even make a post addressing it,.. it sounds like your trying to make it seem like Canaan was the father of africans when it was Ham instead
My point is Noah cursed Canaan. Not Ham. I need proof that Ham was indeed the father of the Africans. Thats all! Not trolling.
youngin

Midlothian, IL

#20 Nov 12, 2008
Janine for Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
My point is Noah cursed Canaan. Not Ham. I need proof that Ham was indeed the father of the Africans. Thats all! Not trolling.
Go read about Ham's sons

“lol”

Level 2

Since: Sep 07

Miami

#21 Nov 12, 2008
Janine, the ape-offshoot homo sapiens who stayed behind in Africa became blacks, the other homo sapiens who left developed into other people. By the time of the Bible's writing, all these different people already existed. So you can't really say some individual fathered some whole group, at least not at that point in history (what is it, 3000BC, 4000BC?)

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