What race are Somalis?

Since: Nov 07

Mama Somalia

#1221 Feb 2, 2008
I think many African tribes enslaved eachother. The Norther Ethiopians enslaved hundred thousand of Oromos and even sold them to Arabs...
Maddest Mullah

Canada

#1222 Feb 2, 2008
CuShitic_PrinceSs wrote:
<quoted text>
Finally.. Thanx for responding without insults.. I agree with you in many ways. Somalis were pretty racist to Bantus and one of the main reasons Somalis were that is they are descendants of slaves and the bottom of society. I was just stating that Reer Xamars were discrminated too because they are non SOmalis like Bantus even though they have never been enslaved. We both know that Somalis are even racist to other clanes let alone non Somalis who are descendants of slaves. But you need to remember all this tribe racism is not only in Somalia. Have you ever heard about how the San Bushmen were treated by the Bantu majority in Southern Africa? Yes they were treated in the same way as the Bantus back home and there is not much San Bushmen left in the world because of this... This is not only something that happened in Somalia. And about ALL Somali clanes having bantu slaves? noooooo... There is not even Bantus in all regions but only in Southern Somalia. Its the people who cooperated with the Arab slavetraders that had and not all Somali clanes.. You might be from the South but my ancestors did not even knew what a Bantu was, let alone enslaving them... And there is nothing new about Africans treating other African tribes like dirt.. It happens all over Africa.. And ohh ofcourse who used to sell the non Muslim Bantus to Arabs? Ofcourse the Swahili people who were Muslims.. Lets not forget about that...
Waa tahay abaayo.

I'm sorry if I insulted you; that wasn't necessary.

But you're still wrong.

Reer Xamar are mixed with Somalis and Bantus aren't. Reer Xamar could, did and do intermarry with ethnic Somalis cause, again, they weren't viewed as racially inferior -- just racially different (not the same thing).

There aren't many Somalis that'll tell another Somali not to marry a Reer Xamar girl just cause she has timo jileecsan and fine features.

Those are considered desirable physical traits, not undesirable ones.

That same person, however, will express disgust at that same acquaintance of theirs marrying a black person based purely on that black person's race and their attendant physical features.

They will also look down on the Bantu in question as the descendant of slaves, and will be baffled at why a Somali would want to have children that look like Bantus instead of Somalis.

So their disapproval is based on both the notion of Bantu racial inferiority and on disdain for intermarriage with the slave classes (racist & classist).

I have no doubt that South African blacks discriminate against the Bushmen.

However, their situation isn't really the same cause both groups are more related than they are different, and there are countless studies that readily support this.

A better analogy would be the discrimination that Indian laborers face from their Arab employers in Dubai.

These Indians are visibly racially different, and are looked down upon both for this fact, and for being lowly laborers.

Lastly, the slave trade in Somalia was a lot more widespread than I think you realize.

It's also not something that was first introduced by Arabs during the Islamization of Somalia, but long before that when Puntland (where I'm from -- not South Somalia) was the Land of Punt and we traded with the ancient Egyptians.

I invite you to check out that book I quoted earlier: Unraveling Somalia: Race, Class, and the Legacy of Slavery by Catherine Besteman

It goes into much greater detail.
mursal

Betterton, MD

#1223 Feb 2, 2008
CuShitic_PrinceSs wrote:
I think many African tribes enslaved eachother. The Norther Ethiopians enslaved hundred thousand of Oromos and even sold them to Arabs...
I'am not surprise those people are capable of anything.
wwwujammafarming org

Noxapater, MS

#1224 Feb 2, 2008
Maddest Mullah wrote:
Bantus were indeed enslaved en masse by the Rahanweyn as well as other Somali clans.

Hey, are you the Mullah dude that fought against the British? Anyway, you do have a point that Bantu were enslaved by arabs and Somali Clans!

The problem is that you leave out a crucial point that makes the white man the great propagandist he is, and makes you look sooooooo foolish!!!!

Are you ready fool? Guess what?!!! THE BANTU SLAVES YOU ARE SPEAKING OF WERE SOLD, OR TRADED TO OTHER AFRICANS(Bantu or not) SOMALIS(who among certain UN-MIXED groups have arab origins), ARABS(original, non-original-arabized, and mixed), OMANIS, etc..... BY THEIR OWN BANTU KINGS,CHIEFS, SULTANS, OR WHATEVER MOST OF THE TIME FOR BARTERED GOODS! BANTUS WOULD'NT HAVE ENSLAVED IN SUCH BULK WITHOUT THE COOPERATION OF THE OWN LEADERS FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Nothing but love from a black(I prefer black over the assimilated term negro) American (sarcastically speaking)!
mursal

Betterton, MD

#1225 Feb 2, 2008
CuShitic_PrinceSs wrote:
<quoted text>
Finally.. Thanx for responding without insults.. I agree with you in many ways. Somalis were pretty racist to Bantus and one of the main reasons Somalis were that is they are descendants of slaves and the bottom of society. I was just stating that Reer Xamars were discrminated too because they are non SOmalis like Bantus even though they have never been enslaved. We both know that Somalis are even racist to other clanes let alone non Somalis who are descendants of slaves. But you need to remember all this tribe racism is not only in Somalia. Have you ever heard about how the San Bushmen were treated by the Bantu majority in Southern Africa? Yes they were treated in the same way as the Bantus back home and there is not much San Bushmen left in the world because of this... This is not only something that happened in Somalia. And about ALL Somali clanes having bantu slaves? noooooo... There is not even Bantus in all regions but only in Southern Somalia. Its the people who cooperated with the Arab slavetraders that had and not all Somali clanes.. You might be from the South but my ancestors did not even knew what a Bantu was, let alone enslaving them... And there is nothing new about Africans treating other African tribes like dirt.. It happens all over Africa.. And ohh ofcourse who used to sell the non Muslim Bantus to Arabs? Ofcourse the Swahili people who were Muslims.. Lets not forget about that...
I agree somalis are racist against everyone not just bantus. somalis find hindi and asian(inda yeer) disdainful as well and no swahili did not enslave other muslim remember it haram to enslave a fellow muslim. the slaves were Kaffir from the interior and most of the operation was under the control of arabs who rule the swahili coast. the omanis even countrol territory in our coast before the european came. our land was split between ottoman domain the norther, omani zanzibar in the south and independant sultanate in between.
mursal

Betterton, MD

#1226 Feb 2, 2008
CuShitic_PrinceSs wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree walaal.. Somalis were nomads and have not much to do with the the Arab slavetrade. Also it makes alot of sense that they are called Xabash since some of tehm might be descendants of Xabashi.
who are called xabashi. explain it to me.
Maddest Mullah

Canada

#1227 Feb 2, 2008
mursal wrote:
alright let clear up a few things, first of all bantu were no the only people that somalis enslaved and mad mullah i think you have some of the fact wrong. the bantu where never enslaved by somalis, the somali bantus' ancestors were indeed brought from south/central africa by arabs when xamar and banadiir coast were still under arab/persian control to work in plantation close to the city, they escape and move deep into interrevine areas and made alliance with the Rahaweyn. these were in no way mutual relation but one of landowner and serf grant and they were treated as little more than slaves.
but the somalis did not only enslave bantu but also habasha and oromo. remember that the mother of mejerteen was a habasha battle captive that was given as a give to harti.
and in the 1900 before the european arrive, the somali in NFD had become more powerful than the oromo and enslave them as camel herder and vessels that paid tribute to somali overlords.
but this is not something to be proud about, it happen and it fact still slave more often than not passed through our territories on their way to middle east. and these slaver were arabs or ethiopian themselve selling their own people, most somali had nothing to do with slave trade.
With all due respect, you're wrong saaxib.

Somalis were very much involved with the slave trade, and long before the Islamization of Somalia.

We were trading slaves as far back as the days of ancient Egypt when Puntland was still known as the Land of Punt.

We traded hides, ivory as well as slaves with ancient Egyptians and Greeks.

Although many of our slaves were indeed Oromo and Xabashi, many more were blacks.

We, in fact, owned slaves right up until the 1920s when complaints from Italy forced the Italian imperialists to ban it.

This devastated the balance of power among the Rahanweyn in the South where it was still going on, and gave Bantus rights they obviously never had before.

Besides the book I mentioned earlier, there are countless websites that further expound on this.

Here's a quote from a paper on the UNHCR website:

"At the same time, Somali populations along the Benadir coast imported slaves from East Africa to provide labour for a rising slave-based grain export economy along the lower Shabelle river. Descendants of those slaves, along with remnants of the original Bantu farming populations, constitute the Jarer (Jereer) or Bantu minorities that populate agricultural villages in much of the Shabelle and Juba river valleys."

There are many more like it.

I'll quote you one from that book I mentioned later when I have more time.
wwwujammafarming org

Noxapater, MS

#1228 Feb 2, 2008
In response to Mursal. I didn't mean Somalis have Circassian or Mongol in them! I still stand by my position that certain cushitic Somali groupings rubbed elbows with and were among the original arabs in YEMEN!!!!!!

You said it yourself, that Somalis and Yemenis have a long history of interaction, intermingling, trade, infighting, etc.....
wwwujammafarming org

Noxapater, MS

#1229 Feb 2, 2008
If certain Somalis aren't descended from the original arabs then what about the Juba Somali of Ethiopia that makes up less than 1% of Ethiopia's population!

They speak an arab dialect(Juba Somali)!!!!!! Oh yeah, and better believe they're black arabs Madman Mullah!
wwwujammafarming org

Noxapater, MS

#1230 Feb 2, 2008
The mixed Somalian may have the Turko-Caucus(Circassian, Albanian, Mongol) admixture from intermingling with Persian Gulf arabs, but I was not talking about the Cushitic Somalis(nor cushitic arab groups either) being mixed!

Hey wasn't Zelia part of the Ottoman Empire?
mursal

Betterton, MD

#1231 Feb 2, 2008
wwwujammafarmingorg wrote:
If certain Somalis aren't descended from the original arabs then what about the Juba Somali of Ethiopia that makes up less than 1% of Ethiopia's population!
They speak an arab dialect(Juba Somali)!!!!!! Oh yeah, and better believe they're black arabs Madman Mullah!
first and fore most, juba is a river in somalia not ethiopia and secondly the people south of the banadir coast the so called juba people are not black arabs and constitute many tribes like the baravaness and bajun both of which spoke a type of swahili dielect they are mixed people there is arab/persian and even portugeous blood in them.they are somalis and yet distinct from the major clan families that dominate somali politics.
mursal

Betterton, MD

#1232 Feb 2, 2008
wwwujammafarmingorg wrote:
The mixed Somalian may have the Turko-Caucus(Circassian, Albanian, Mongol) admixture from intermingling with Persian Gulf arabs, but I was not talking about the Cushitic Somalis(nor cushitic arab groups either) being mixed!
Hey wasn't Zelia part of the Ottoman Empire?
your right the mix tribe probably have turko-caucasion/persion or arab backgroups. eg mehri arabs(arab saleex), Bajun, Barawan, baravaness, and of couse the famous reer xamar people.

and Zelia was part of ottomon empire empire but only as a tributory state. the ottomon controlled the land through vessel from zelia to massawa(eriteria). but the city was once the capital of the Adal sultanate and was famous for it mosque, school, wealth and it haughtyness. some people say that people use to dine on gold plate and were arrogant to such a degree that god punished them and the city was sack and destroy 3 times.
mursal

Betterton, MD

#1233 Feb 2, 2008
Maddest Mullah wrote:
<quoted text>
No, not just "my clan" (Darood -- not Rahanweyn, BTW) captured, enslaved and traded Negroes.
It was a practice among pretty much all Somalis that went on not just for years, but for centuries.
Note that stating that Somalis owned Negro slaves isn't the same thing as bragging about it. It's merely asserting established FACT and like I clearly wrote, there are entire books written on the subject that more than prove and expound on this.
Your likening Bantus to Reer Xamar and Midgaans and others is also completely out of place.
Somalis did not and do not see those groups as racially inferior and proof of this is that they didn't enslave them or call them a constellation of derogatory names or refuse to intermarry with them on RACIAL reasons alone.
Take Midgaans: We all know that old story about their ancestor having eaten that dead corpse but choosing not to vomit it out later like the other Somali guy did.
That's the reason why Midgaans are discriminated against: Cause they're viewed as morally unsound -- not because they have broad features, really nappy hair, big lips, a non-Somali face, and are the descendants of our former slaves.
It's not the same thing at all.
The Somali relationship with Bantus is a fundamentally racist one, and it's frankly disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
for the last time there are no negros bantus in the horn of africa. there are only 3 peoples the semites (xabasha aka Amhara and tigranya), cushitic (somali, oromo, afar ....etc) and nilotes ( people like those that live in southern sudan. the bantu never reach our land the only time we come across bantu was when somalis migration into NFD at the Tana river, so you see we could never have a chance to enslave them until arabs started to import them to work in plantation in somalia fertile zone. it more than like that due to our incessant war with the xabasha we would have likely taken them as slave as they raid our land as much as we raid theirs.

peace
mursal

Betterton, MD

#1234 Feb 2, 2008
I meant to put negro in quotes
it very disrespective to africans

peace out
wwwujammafarming org

Noxapater, MS

#1235 Feb 2, 2008
Mursal,

I've also read that a group of Prophet Muhammad's immediate followers fled down into East Africa(Cush). Even as far down as Tanzania and Zanzibar!

It is said that the founder of Sufism- "Dhu'l-Nun al-Misri" was from Upper Egypt!

It's beginning to sound like the word arab was a title thrown around like the word berber, caucasion, white, black, or even negro! The point is that no one word can describe the complexity of this region!

Still, I stand by my position that Somalis were right up in the "action" of this so-called "arab movement" thing!
Maddest Mullah

Canada

#1237 Feb 2, 2008
mursal wrote:
<quoted text>
for the last time there are no negros bantus in the horn of africa. there are only 3 peoples the semites (xabasha aka Amhara and tigranya), cushitic (somali, oromo, afar ....etc) and nilotes ( people like those that live in southern sudan. the bantu never reach our land the only time we come across bantu was when somalis migration into NFD at the Tana river, so you see we could never have a chance to enslave them until arabs started to import them to work in plantation in somalia fertile zone. it more than like that due to our incessant war with the xabasha we would have likely taken them as slave as they raid our land as much as we raid theirs.
peace
What are you talking about "there are no Bantus in the Horn of Africa"?

What do you call the tribes in Kenya then? Tanzania? Uganda? How do you even think they got there?

Of course there are Bantus in the Horn of Africa and have been for the past 3500 years since the so-called Bantu Expansion that first brought them there! LOL

Prior to that, only ETHNIC Cushites/Aethiopids inhabited the Horn -- I'm not talking about linguistics here.

The Tigray and Amhara do indeed speak Semitic languages, but genetically and anthropologically they cluster with other Aethiopids like Somalis and Oromos, so it is not inaccurate to refer to them as ethnically being Cushitic (even if their admixture is primarily Semitic and ours is primarily Arab).

As for us not enslaving Bantus, brother, it has been heavily documented and not just in recent works either, but in the travelogues, journals, diaries, etc. of English subjects of the old British Empire in the 19th century.
wwwujammafarming org

Noxapater, MS

#1238 Feb 2, 2008
Oh yeah, and about that Yemeni-black treatment vs. the Somali. I do understand that there are descendents of slaves whom are seen as below beggars, but their is an element of conflicting views about whether all the Yemeni-black are descended from slaves?!!!

Adding fuel to the fire is the legacy of colonialism(western media apparatus and propaganda) where western views and images reigned supreme and viewed black as a whole, slave descendent or NOT into a un-desired being!

The Yemeni-black may be catching some of the backlash of western views!!

Peace, in the Middle East(humor)!
wwwujammafarming org

Noxapater, MS

#1239 Feb 2, 2008
The Tigray and Amhara do indeed speak Semitic languages, but genetically and anthropologically they cluster with other Aethiopids like Somalis and Oromos, so it is not inaccurate to refer to them as ethnically being Cushitic (even if their admixture is primarily Semitic and ours is primarily Arab).

Whoa, Boss! You threw me off a little there! Is there admixture Cushitic, or Semitic? Is Semitic just a language, a culture, or what else? Is Arab which is supposedly cultural(not racial), and nowadays a language based grouping, Semitic?

I'm just asking???
Rekik

Canal Winchester, OH

#1240 Feb 2, 2008
wwwujammafarmingorg wrote:
The Tigray and Amhara do indeed speak Semitic languages, but genetically and anthropologically they cluster with other Aethiopids like Somalis and Oromos, so it is not inaccurate to refer to them as ethnically being Cushitic (even if their admixture is primarily Semitic and ours is primarily Arab).
Whoa, Boss! You threw me off a little there! Is there admixture Cushitic, or Semitic? Is Semitic just a language, a culture, or what else? Is Arab which is supposedly cultural(not racial), and nowadays a language based grouping, Semitic?
I'm just asking???
arabs are semitic. If this forum is about what race Somali's are, why drag in and attempt to define Ethiopians? We already have a forum on here about us it's your time to shine
wwwujammafarming org

Noxapater, MS

#1241 Feb 2, 2008
Rerik wrote:

arabs are semitic. If this forum is about what race Somali's are, why drag in and attempt to define Ethiopians? We already have a forum on here about us it's your time to shine

LMAO!!!!!

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