Are the Tutsis of Rwanda originally f...
Eyasu Abebe

Addis Ababa, Ethiopia

#1175 Jul 24, 2013
Please don't at any cost relate your self to a Jews .You know,they will be laghing at you because you are an insect like creature for them.I am an Ethiopian and you may consider me an Egyptian by looking my face,but please stop talking this race thing and try to live in a civilized and dignified way.We all are living in the same conitinent-Africa though we came from different places,so we are Africans for now.For example,we all Ethiopians are not the same but because of intermarriage we get to be similar though there are notable differences with some tribes in the south and west.Any way,we are living together with all our differences
Khaled Maiwada Abdulsalam

Nigeria

#1176 Jul 24, 2013
Please we need to see more pictures of pure mixless(those without a drop of Hutu blood) Tutsi girls. As a Sociologist I am interested in these Tutsi people. I will also appreciate a grant to enable me go to Rwanda and Burundi and study these people in order to compare them with other traditionally cattle holding people of West Africa such as the Shuwa Arabs and the Fulanis. please readers advise me on how to get financial support and sponsorships. From all indications with the exception of the Nuers and Dinka peoples most of cow reaing people of West, Central and East Africa Share similar features of softer, longer hair,softer delicate smoother skins, are taller, lighter in complexion and have bigger teeth, narrower higher and longer noses, smaller mouths, slimmer and bigger protruding forehead and more defined prominent facial features than all other sedentary traditionally farming Africans.
kasumbein

Kampala, Uganda

#1177 Jul 31, 2013
asho wrote: Among the bagisu it is not ok to marry a fellow mugisu from another part of bugisu who speaks in a funny accent(there are alway small cultural differences) LOL! A mudari bubulo marriage is not really ok on either side. How do you think marriage between a mugisu and a Kalenin or Iteso will be looked upon. As I said it's people on the fringes boardering the non-bagisu that have intermarried with them lowly.
You are able notice the cultural and language differences among the bagisu but you can not still account for them. The differences among the differnt groups bagisu are due to geographical location and interaction with different people. Point of information I am a mugisu from Bulambuli, my father was born in Kapchorwa and my mother is a Sabiny born in Bulegeni subcounty, Bulambuli district. A Mugisu girl from northern bugisu would rather marry a Sabiny man but not a mugisu from south and viceverser because the two have the same culture though they may speak different languages.
asho

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#1178 Jul 31, 2013
kasumbein wrote:
asho wrote: Among the bagisu it is not ok to marry a fellow mugisu from another part of bugisu who speaks in a funny accent(there are alway small cultural differences) LOL! A mudari bubulo marriage is not really ok on either side. How do you think marriage between a mugisu and a Kalenin or Iteso will be looked upon. As I said it's people on the fringes boardering the non-bagisu that have intermarried with them lowly.
You are able notice the cultural and language differences among the bagisu but you can not still account for them. The differences among the differnt groups bagisu are due to geographical location and interaction with different people. Point of information I am a mugisu from Bulambuli, my father was born in Kapchorwa and my mother is a Sabiny born in Bulegeni subcounty, Bulambuli district. A Mugisu girl from northern bugisu would rather marry a Sabiny man but not a mugisu from south and viceverser because the two have the same culture though they may speak different languages.
You wanna tell me Sabeny intermarry freely with badadiri in your aREA? That is news to me. A minority do that in other parts of bugisu. Most bagisu or sabeny prefer their own kind. There was study done on acholis neigbouring baganda, they found next to no genetic exchange between the two group after living close each other for thousand of years. This rule applies to other tribes too. But if you father was born in sebei then he is prolly culturally Sabeny.

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

San Diego, CA

#1179 Aug 2, 2013
Khaled Maiwada Abdulsalam wrote:
Please we need to see more pictures of pure mixless(those without a drop of Hutu blood) Tutsi girls. As a Sociologist I am interested in these Tutsi people. I will also appreciate a grant to enable me go to Rwanda and Burundi and study these people in order to compare them with other traditionally cattle holding people of West Africa such as the Shuwa Arabs and the Fulanis. please readers advise me on how to get financial support and sponsorships. From all indications with the exception of the Nuers and Dinka peoples most of cow reaing people of West, Central and East Africa Share similar features of softer, longer hair,softer delicate smoother skins, are taller, lighter in complexion and have bigger teeth, narrower higher and longer noses, smaller mouths, slimmer and bigger protruding forehead and more defined prominent facial features than all other sedentary traditionally farming Africans.
You are kind of stating the obvious. Africans come from different types of Africoid people within the continent. Even within types that you may deem to be phenotypically similar there is massive diversity. However the majority of Africans are actually ' mongrels' so to speak.Apart from pygmies and bushmen Very few populations have lived long periods of isolation to warrant any references of 'purity'.

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

San Diego, CA

#1180 Aug 2, 2013
asho wrote:
<quoted text>
You wanna tell me Sabeny intermarry freely with badadiri in your aREA? That is news to me. A minority do that in other parts of bugisu. Most bagisu or sabeny prefer their own kind. There was study done on acholis neigbouring baganda, they found next to no genetic exchange between the two group after living close each other for thousand of years. This rule applies to other tribes too. But if you father was born in sebei then he is prolly culturally Sabeny.
The answer is a resounding 'YES' and you do not need to only take into account recent history. The more important levels of intermarriage happened in antecedant pre-modern times which in many ways is relegated to myth in contemporary conversation. You cannot make conclusions from observations of a few recent years to acertain that in a distant past intermarriage didn't happen. Even Traditional folklore attributes the origin of the entire people to an intermarriage Nabarwa(a Nilohamite) to Masaba (a bantu man who sought a wife)!! Your evidence to dispute this is hopelessly unconvincing.It's just a deep feeling or some hunch you have -- that is probably dictated by knowledge/hearsay you obtained from about 2 miles radius of your village.
Half nd Half

South Africa

#1181 Aug 20, 2013
I am half Tutsi , half Somali and there is no doubt that Tutsis are descendants of the Somali. If the look does not convince you then you should consider that one of the 9 tribes of Somalia is missing, the Diijir, forgive me for my spelling of the name if it is incorrect. The reason why Tutsis are now considered bantu is the centuries of inter-marrige with Hutus and other Bantus of East Africa.

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

San Diego, CA

#1182 Sep 19, 2013
Half nd Half wrote:
I am half Tutsi , half Somali and there is no doubt that Tutsis are descendants of the Somali. If the look does not convince you then you should consider that one of the 9 tribes of Somalia is missing, the Diijir, forgive me for my spelling of the name if it is incorrect. The reason why Tutsis are now considered bantu is the centuries of inter-marrige with Hutus and other Bantus of East Africa.
Are Shona's of Yoruba origin? Their looks are similar ! Why isn't there a mad rush to draw conclusions based on looks to link say Himba's in namibia to wolofs in senegal?- They share similar phenotypical traits!!
Johnson

Kampala, Uganda

#1183 Sep 20, 2013
Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text> Are Shona's of Yoruba origin? Their looks are similar ! Why isn't there a mad rush to draw conclusions based on looks to link say Himba's in namibia to wolofs in senegal?- They share similar phenotypical traits!!
No, half n half has not made a mad rush conclusion. What is implied is that if you are not convinced by the similarity in phenotype which is also not a small point, consider that there is a missing tribe. These two points to her/him deserve examination. These points are quite legitimate in this discussion. Are the Tutsi of Rwanda originally from Somalia.

Level 8

Since: Oct 09

Paris France

#1184 Sep 21, 2013
For those who read French, a recently edited book is nuking the "Hamite" theory and the idea that Tutsi and Hutu are 2 different people instead of mere different social classes.

Jean-Pierre Chrétien and Marcel Kabanda, Rwanda, Racisme et génocide. L'idéologie hamitique, Paris, Belin, 2013.

Authors are showing how the idea of a foreign people, "Hamites" or "Chamites", being the so-called "white" of Africa, being supposedly mixed with Jews, was created without any proof in the second half of XIXth.
It was, according to them, a pure invention of racist whitey ; they are tracking the various books of the XIXth that have imagined this weird theory.

a whiteboi
Johnson

Kigali, Rwanda

#1185 Sep 28, 2013
attai1 wrote:
For those who read French, a recently edited book is nuking the "Hamite" theory and the idea that Tutsi and Hutu are 2 different people instead of mere different social classes.
Jean-Pierre Chrétien and Marcel Kabanda, Rwanda, Racisme et génocide. L'idéologie hamitique, Paris, Belin, 2013.
Authors are showing how the idea of a foreign people, "Hamites" or "Chamites", being the so-called "white" of Africa, being supposedly mixed with Jews, was created without any proof in the second half of XIXth.
It was, according to them, a pure invention of racist whitey ; they are tracking the various books of the XIXth that have imagined this weird theory.
a whiteboi
The argument is that the where the Tutsi came from, given that they are pastrolists who roamed from place to place with their cattle, which they still possess to this day. the Hutu possess no cattle and have been a very sedentary group, moving very short distances. This is not disputed. What is disputed is, where the Tutsi lived before settling in their current areas of occupation, mainly in Uganda, Rwanda, DR Congo and Tanzania where they are today again being evicted for being non Bantu? Of course there are people who will write all kinds of myth to hoodwink foreigners who have scanty facts of issues on the ground. Today the Tutsi and Hima pastrolists are being evicted yet again from Northern Tanzania from a Kingdom(Karagwe) they set up centuries ago. The focus is, whence did they come from to set up these Kingdoms which are largely based on the Bachwezi oral traditions.

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

San Diego, CA

#1186 Sep 30, 2013
Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>No, half n half has not made a mad rush conclusion. What is implied is that if you are not convinced by the similarity in phenotype which is also not a small point, consider that there is a missing tribe. These two points to her/him deserve examination. These points are quite legitimate in this discussion. Are the Tutsi of Rwanda originally from Somalia.
Everything deserves examination. My examination points that his conclusions are absolute nonesense! If you use phenotypical similarity as the only yardstick to explain ethnic affiliation- then you should with same logic conclude the Igbo's are Kamba's and Zulu's are Luhya, fulani's are somali etc If you insist on phenotypical affliation as your marker - isn't it then logical to pick the groups that are even more phenotypically closer to Tutsi like Masaai, kalejin, Itesot and to an extent kikuyu - than to go blind fishing in North east africa? Try telling an Ethiopian that they have ethnic affliation with somalians because of phenotypical proximity -- I guarantee the response will be hostile.
Johnson

Kampala, Uganda

#1187 Oct 1, 2013
Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text>Everything deserves examination. My examination points that his conclusions are absolute nonesense! If you use phenotypical similarity as the only yardstick to explain ethnic affiliation- then you should with same logic conclude the Igbo's are Kamba's and Zulu's are Luhya, fulani's are somali etc If you insist on phenotypical affliation as your marker - isn't it then logical to pick the groups that are even more phenotypically closer to Tutsi like Masaai, kalejin, Itesot and to an extent kikuyu - than to go blind fishing in North east africa? Try telling an Ethiopian that they have ethnic affliation with somalians because of phenotypical proximity -- I guarantee the response will be hostile.
This is wrong again. It aint about fishing here or blind fishing, or about Zulus...it is about exploration, debate and discussion. There is no parameter as it were. It is the intriguing fact about The Tutsi, are they originally from Somalia? Thats the discussion here. You cant jump on other parallels...Igbo and so on, that dont matter here on our discussion.
Johnson

Kampala, Uganda

#1188 Oct 1, 2013
Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text>Everything deserves examination. My examination points that his conclusions are absolute nonesense! If you use phenotypical similarity as the only yardstick to explain ethnic affiliation- then you should with same logic conclude the Igbo's are Kamba's and Zulu's are Luhya, fulani's are somali etc If you insist on phenotypical affliation as your marker - isn't it then logical to pick the groups that are even more phenotypically closer to Tutsi like Masaai, kalejin, Itesot and to an extent kikuyu - than to go blind fishing in North east africa? Try telling an Ethiopian that they have ethnic affliation with somalians because of phenotypical proximity -- I guarantee the response will be hostile.
And by the way, he didnt make any conclusions, he enriched the discussion by passing on some information to the forum. Which I found interesting as much as you didnt. Let the people discuss, thats the point we are here taking notes.

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

San Diego, CA

#1189 Oct 2, 2013
Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>This is wrong again. It aint about fishing here or blind fishing, or about Zulus...it is about exploration, debate and discussion. There is no parameter as it were. It is the intriguing fact about The Tutsi, are they originally from Somalia? Thats the discussion here. You cant jump on other parallels...Igbo and so on, that dont matter here on our discussion.


Q: Where are Tutsi from
A: Somalia
Q: Why
A: Because they look like somalians
Q: Do Tutsi look like Masaai
A: Yes
Q: Are Tutsi from Kenya
A: No

Q: Do Somalians look like Ethiopians
A: Yes
Q: Are Somalians from Ethiopia
A: No
Q: Why
A: Just because they look like each does not mean they are the same people

???
Johnson

Kampala, Uganda

#1190 Oct 3, 2013
Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text>
Q: Where are Tutsi from
A: Somalia
Q: Why
A: Because they look like somalians
Q: Do Tutsi look like Masaai
A: Yes
Q: Are Tutsi from Kenya
A: No
Q: Do Somalians look like Ethiopians
A: Yes
Q: Are Somalians from Ethiopia
A: No
Q: Why
A: Just because they look like each does not mean they are the same people
???
Yes,that line of discussion has been exhaustively discussed here. I remember you as a discussant, and several issues came out of this. The contributor talked about a missing clan or tribe in somalia, and have read about that too. Someone may provide a rejoiner as this is a wide forum. My point is to enhance rather than stiffle debate. Its up to us to absorb, reject or distill. We encourage rather than stiffle as we read each and every contribution including yours...good or bad. The Somali thing comes up because of the wording of the topic, its not just a choice to link with Somalia. If the link was with Masai or whatever, it would gravitate towards that. Let us encourage debate. I will actually remeber the missing clan and post it, it is deep history.
kahkem

Lynnwood, WA

#1191 Oct 3, 2013
no tutsis are not from somalia because somalis are from north africa, but tutsis are distantly related to the very ancient horn african pastrolist community before it was replaced by north africans and south arabians who make up the modern day population.
Boondeebeejoe

Stockholm, Sweden

#1192 Oct 3, 2013
Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>Yes,that line of discussion has been exhaustively discussed here. I remember you as a discussant, and several issues came out of this. The contributor talked about a missing clan or tribe in somalia, and have read about that too. Someone may provide a rejoiner as this is a wide forum. My point is to enhance rather than stiffle debate. Its up to us to absorb, reject or distill. We encourage rather than stiffle as we read each and every contribution including yours...good or bad. The Somali thing comes up because of the wording of the topic, its not just a choice to link with Somalia. If the link was with Masai or whatever, it would gravitate towards that. Let us encourage debate. I will actually remeber the missing clan and post it, it is deep history.
So you want to us take your word for it based on some oral tale of a tutsi being a break away clan of somalis? In this modern day and age only genetics can give us a concrete answer and going by the genetic studies published, tutsi are genetically simmilar to hutu. Infact some hutu have been found to carry R1b, a european marker, at low frequences. Masai are more related to HOA people than tutsi. Read somewhere that tutsi have about 36% HOA, mostly maternal. Am sure you have some relation. Another thing if you want to narrow this discussion to tutsi, then it is best you move this discussion tutsi or somali forum.

Level 8

Since: Oct 09

Paris France

#1193 Oct 4, 2013
Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>The argument is that the where the Tutsi came from, given that they are pastrolists who roamed from place to place with their cattle, which they still possess to this day. the Hutu possess no cattle and have been a very sedentary group, moving very short distances. This is not disputed. What is disputed is, where the Tutsi lived before settling in their current areas of occupation, mainly in Uganda, Rwanda, DR Congo and Tanzania where they are today again being evicted for being non Bantu? Of course there are people who will write all kinds of myth to hoodwink foreigners who have scanty facts of issues on the ground. Today the Tutsi and Hima pastrolists are being evicted yet again from Northern Tanzania from a Kingdom(Karagwe) they set up centuries ago. The focus is, whence did they come from to set up these Kingdoms which are largely based on the Bachwezi oral traditions.
The pastoralist theory is highly disputed in fact.
According to researchers, Hutus had also some cattle ; besides there were some Hutu dominated little kingdoms in the North of present Rwanda. It seems that the feudal contract linked to cattle - buhake - evolved in the XVIIIth and XIXth and was spread during the colonial era. It was said to be different before.
Moreover neither DNA nor language are giving proofs of a substantial difference between Hutu and Tutsi.
A social and cultural antagonism has been created mostly from the XIXth unto today.

One fact that is enlightening is the history of Burundi the neighbor kingdom with Hutu, Tutsi, Twa and Ganwa. In spite of violence too (1972 in particular and 1993), in 1994 the assassination of the Burundi president alongside with president Habyarimana has not produced a genocide not even any trouble. On the contrary, the peaceful process was settled and a Hutu president is in charge.

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

United States

#1194 Oct 4, 2013
Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>Yes,that line of discussion has been exhaustively discussed here. I remember you as a discussant, and several issues came out of this. The contributor talked about a missing clan or tribe in somalia, and have read about that too. Someone may provide a rejoiner as this is a wide forum. My point is to enhance rather than stiffle debate. Its up to us to absorb, reject or distill. We encourage rather than stiffle as we read each and every contribution including yours...good or bad. The Somali thing comes up because of the wording of the topic, its not just a choice to link with Somalia. If the link was with Masai or whatever, it would gravitate towards that. Let us encourage debate. I will actually remember the missing clan and post it, it is deep history.
The topic is in form of a question Are the Tutsis of Rwanda originally from Somalia? And you can read all my threads where I have exhaustively proved that the answer to that question is NO. So basically answering the question in a way that doesnt satisfy you is stifling debate?! To the contrary its igniting debate.

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