BMT

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#1154 May 13, 2013
Redefined wrote:
Maybe The Tutsi resemble HOA because they are some kinda Saharan group. PPL say the same thing about The Fulani/Wodaabe. Saharan PPL phenotypes seem to overlap with both East & West Africans. Is this due to admixture or did East/West Africans groups evolve from Saharans?? Nilo-Saharan speakers seem to carry some of the oldest Y-DNA next to Bushman.
The Tutsi, HOA, Fulani/wadobe have one thing in common, they have old euro-asian admixture at varying degrees. They all also claim middle eastern origin, which could be tell tale sign of that connection. Euroasian in this case includes north Africans.

“Freedom”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

United States

#1155 May 14, 2013
BMT wrote:
<quoted text>
The Tutsi, HOA, Fulani/wadobe have one thing in common, they have old euro-asian admixture at varying degrees. They all also claim middle eastern origin, which could be tell tale sign of that connection. Euroasian in this case includes north Africans.
The oldest Y-DNA markers in Africa tho are along The Sahel/Sahara/Sudan were most of The Saharan tribes live with the exception of The Bushman who is further south.
Asho

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#1156 May 14, 2013
Redefined wrote:
<quoted text>
The oldest Y-DNA markers in Africa tho are along The Sahel/Sahara/Sudan were most of The Saharan tribes live with the exception of The Bushman who is further south.
What has the oldest Y-DNA got to do with, tutsi, HOA, fulani and wadobe claim to middle east origin? Nilo Saharan could be the oldest africans rhough. Read some that oldest A Y-DNA is found in Nilo Saharan/ nilotes and not khoisan.

“Freedom”

Level 8

Since: Jan 10

United States

#1157 May 14, 2013
Asho wrote:
<quoted text>
What has the oldest Y-DNA got to do with, tutsi, HOA, fulani and wadobe claim to middle east origin? Nilo Saharan could be the oldest africans rhough. Read some that oldest A Y-DNA is found in Nilo Saharan/ nilotes and not khoisan.
I brought up Saharans because some Tutsi resemble HOA but they are NOT considered a Cushtic PPL like other Saharan groups whom may resemble East African PPL. They all may have Middle Eastern origins which could explain their resemblance with each other but Nilo-Saharans seem to be oldest Africans as for right now. TRUE Bushman carry sub-clads which came from elsewhere.

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

San Diego, CA

#1158 May 23, 2013
BMT wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know ancient Africans did not look like Africans today? If by ancient you mean 35,000 years ago and later, then they most likely looked like modern Africans(not north eat Africans of today) This is early european from about 35, 000 years ago. He looks like modern west, central and southern African if you ask me.
First european
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/0...
These people entered europe about 35,000 years ago. There is a documentary on the "first european". Find it on youtube.
There are Skeletal remains and comparisons have been made between ancient and modern peoples - this is information readily available to anyone who wants it.Just the fact that reproduction keeps taking place and new mixtures of dna occur- even within the same population will result to new phenotypical developments. There was variability in old african populations (35,000 years ago) You are obstinately insisting that there was only one kind of African. Different African types moved out of Africa - you cannot simply use a single skeletal remain to explain all populations.However Most European DNA traces back to an African ancestor in North east Africa--- not west Africa or southern Africa. North East Africans are a specific type of African amoung the many. The populations who you insist on attributing 'purity' or 'orginality' to : west African Bantu and southern african bantu -- are more recent and have one of the highlest levels of African pop.Admix ( i.e they have the highest mixture of different african types - i.e pygmy, bushman, saharan, cushite etc)

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

San Diego, CA

#1159 May 23, 2013
BMT wrote:
<quoted text>
Somalis? When did North east Africans become somalis? You are ignoring the euro-asian admixture in HOA and NEA. You are trying to tell us the euroasian admixture did not affect them at all. Yet AA who have recently mixed with euroasians, do not exactly look like their ancestors(West Africans) that were taken to the Americas.
I am using North East Africans and somalians interchangebly because we were addressing the African-ness of somalians specifically. You using purely ignorant racial models to explain somali's and other North East African populations. You believe their 'looks' come from an admixture -- Yet most evidence points to the fact that its european populations who inherited their characteristics from North East Africans. Now you are shooting yourself in the foot - when you bring up AA's. These people have higher levels of european admixture than any African population yet -- they maintain a distinctly west African phenotype i.e even the high levels of mixing did little to affect their west African-ness. North East Africans like any other African population had contact with others -- however that did very little to alter more than 80,000 years of evolutionary development. Remove the colonial rust from your brain -- and understand that europeans and levantians got their characteristics from a north east african population and not the other way round- Its impossible for a child to be his fathers Parent!

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

San Diego, CA

#1160 May 23, 2013
Redefined wrote:
Maybe The Tutsi resemble HOA because they are some kinda Saharan group. PPL say the same thing about The Fulani/Wodaabe. Saharan PPL phenotypes seem to overlap with both East & West Africans. Is this due to admixture or did East/West Africans groups evolve from Saharans?? Nilo-Saharan speakers seem to carry some of the oldest Y-DNA next to Bushman.
Tutsi and other nilohamites -- seem to be a mix of Nilo-saharan and cushitic peoples-- now Tutsi are even more complex because they have a large bantu and believe it or not pygmoid admix ( you cannot expect that they lived with twa for millenia and never had sex)
Justice unlimited

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#1161 May 23, 2013
Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text> There are Skeletal remains and comparisons have been made between ancient and modern peoples - this is information readily available to anyone who wants it.Just the fact that reproduction keeps taking place and new mixtures of dna occur- even within the same population will result to new phenotypical developments. There was variability in old african populations (35,000 years ago) You are obstinately insisting that there was only one kind of African. Different African types moved out of Africa - you cannot simply use a single skeletal remain to explain all populations.However Most European DNA traces back to an African ancestor in North east Africa--- not west Africa or southern Africa. North East Africans are a specific type of African amoung the many. The populations who you insist on attributing 'purity' or 'orginality' to : west African Bantu and southern african bantu -- are more recent and have one of the highlest levels of African pop.Admix ( i.e they have the highest mixture of different african types - i.e pygmy, bushman, saharan, cushite etc)
You have bought into the eurocentric nonsense that ancient africans had caucasian like skulls and prolly had stringy hair and white.^_^ Then then the "first european" skull in europe says otherwise. The "first european" is supposed to have entered about 35,000 years ago. At the time cro-magnon man was already in europe. Am there was diversity in africa back then too.
The only area we disagree is your claim is that HOA/north east africans are an original race- looked like do, 20 000 years ago or earlier when E1b1a and E 1b1b split.

BTW, One of the reasons early africans left africa was that The continent was extremely dry and hot 50,0000 years ago.
Justice unlimited

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#1162 May 24, 2013
Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text> Different African types moved out of Africa - you cannot simply use a single skeletal remain to explain all populations.However Most European DNA traces back to an African ancestor in North east Africa--- not west Africa or southern Africa.etc)
You expect to be taken serious with that? You are aware E originated in east africa or north east africa, right? Who tells you west africans were in west africa 35,0000 year ago or east africans lived in east africa then? West africans likely moved into east africa recently.. People moved about, Einstein.

Tassili rock painting depicting black people in north africa. These could well have been the ancestors of west africans. 9,000 years the sahara was lash and green. It is when the region dried up that people moved into the west africa rain ferests and the nile valley.

http://se.images.search.yahoo.com/search/imag...
Justice unlimited

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#1163 May 24, 2013
Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text> I am using North East Africans and somalians interchangebly because we were addressing the African-ness of somalians specifically. You using purely ignorant racial models to explain somali's and other North East African populations. You believe their 'looks' come from an admixture -- Yet most evidence points to the fact that its european populations who inherited their characteristics from North East Africans. Now you are shooting yourself in the foot - when you bring up AA's. These people have higher levels of european admixture than any African population yet -- they maintain a distinctly west African phenotype i.e even the high levels of mixing did little to affect their west African-ness. North East Africans like any other African population had contact with others -- however that did very little to alter more than 80,000 years of evolutionary development. Remove the colonial rust from your brain -- and understand that europeans and levantians got their characteristics from a north east african population and not the other way round- Its impossible for a child to be his fathers Parent!
You have have not told us were chinese and australian abbos go their look. Dude if you are mixed with bushmen, that is your south africa problem. Don't try to pain all west african type with the same paint.

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

San Diego, CA

#1164 May 25, 2013
Justice unlimited wrote:
<quoted text>
You have bought into the eurocentric nonsense that ancient africans had caucasian like skulls and prolly had stringy hair and white.^_^ Then then the "first european" skull in europe says otherwise. The "first european" is supposed to have entered about 35,000 years ago. At the time cro-magnon man was already in europe. Am there was diversity in africa back then too.
The only area we disagree is your claim is that HOA/north east africans are an original race- looked like do, 20 000 years ago or earlier when E1b1a and E 1b1b split.
BTW, One of the reasons early africans left africa was that The continent was extremely dry and hot 50,0000 years ago.
A basic question will solve your problem : Do Europeans have an african origin? You are preoccupied denying very well known facts of the oldest populations types in Africa: Pymoid, khoi-san, Ethiopid and Saharan. The groups you attribute originality to (west & south African Bantu)are very recent -- and are a hybrid to in varying degrees of the above groups. Your obsession with looks is just baffling: what is important is science is now able to trace European populations back to north eastern africa. Read the works of S.O.Y http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._O._Y._Keita . He has shown compelling evidence combining genetics, anthropology and history on origin of African populations.
nasiru hosea kasumbein

Kampala, Uganda

#1165 Jun 8, 2013
Tribe is a social setting. In other words, tribe refers to a group of people who may or may not be of the same origin and have come together due various reasons such as war, femine, land pressure. These people in most cases have something in common such as culture, language, origin and religion that binds them together. However, africans have been confused by this colonial type of education that defines tribe as a group of people of the same origin, speak the same language and have the same culture. This type of definition has made tribe such a rigid thing that for some one to fit in a certain tribe you have speak in a particular way, have a certain look and do things in a certain way.This kind of definition of tribe is what has led to tribalism and more so genocides in africa. Infact the pre-colonial africans like my grandfather understood tribe better than we do because they were not corrupted by this colonial type of education. This is why all the worst forms of tribalism and genocides occured after arrival of colonialists in Africa.
Genocide survivor

Europe

#1166 Jun 10, 2013
Israel solomon wrote:
Ethiopia is the origins of mankind, the home of beutifull peoples. the same the Tutsi tribe is seems like Ethiopians. my grandparent told me abaut tutsi migration ,prevously the tutsi tribe name was oromo, Oromo is one of the largest tribe in ethiopia . I Love Tutsi because they are beutifull like Ethiopians!!!
nobody knows where tutsis are exactly came from''french scientist said''are unik race!
nasiru hosea kasumbein

Kampala, Uganda

#1167 Jun 15, 2013
"It is bagisu neighboring the Kalenjin(nilo-hamites) who have mixed with them "marginally". Bukusu(Kenya) and possible Badari. Cultural exchange does not equal genetic exchange. Bagasu took circumcision from the Kalenjin and they in turn, possibly, introduced agriculture to the Kalenjin. I know for certain, marriage between bagisu and Kalenjin and Iteso is taboo-ish. Bagisu do not look any different from their neighboring bantu." A mugisu (mumasaba)is not defined by his/her appearance. A mumasaba is some one whose ancestors are from mount elgon or migrated to mount elgon some time back (ten generations ago). According to oral history, the clans in northern bugisu such as bamasobo, banataje, basamasama, bamulago and others in buyobo and buwalasi claim that their ancestors who were mainly sabinys, bagwere and itesots who migrated to bugisu more than 200 years ago and "got married to bagisu women" because they abondoned their language and their culture. Intermariage between bagisu and the nilo-hamites was mainly one-way,where the bagisu women "married" the itesots, sabinys and gwere men because these tribes had few women and the gisu culture was forced on them because they minority groups.
UruEuWauWau

Brazil

#1168 Jun 15, 2013
Nop, they ain't. ;-) Tutsis are Tutsis, yet similar to many E.Africans. ;-)
Lilianne

United States

#1169 Jun 29, 2013
Tutsis are ethiopians! believe it or not lol!
Congo

Portland, ME

#1170 Jul 1, 2013
Prince remember: "Abaan Duulaha, abaa TUUTSIga Abbaan u lahayn !!"

Read your History, ask your old people!! look around you !! ask their history, read!!

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

San Diego, CA

#1171 Jul 6, 2013
nasiru hosea kasumbein wrote:
"It is bagisu neighboring the Kalenjin(nilo-hamites) who have mixed with them "marginally". Bukusu(Kenya) and possible Badari. Cultural exchange does not equal genetic exchange. Bagasu took circumcision from the Kalenjin and they in turn, possibly, introduced agriculture to the Kalenjin. I know for certain, marriage between bagisu and Kalenjin and Iteso is taboo-ish. Bagisu do not look any different from their neighboring bantu." A mugisu (mumasaba)is not defined by his/her appearance. A mumasaba is some one whose ancestors are from mount elgon or migrated to mount elgon some time back (ten generations ago). According to oral history, the clans in northern bugisu such as bamasobo, banataje, basamasama, bamulago and others in buyobo and buwalasi claim that their ancestors who were mainly sabinys, bagwere and itesots who migrated to bugisu more than 200 years ago and "got married to bagisu women" because they abondoned their language and their culture. Intermariage between bagisu and the nilo-hamites was mainly one-way,where the bagisu women "married" the itesots, sabinys and gwere men because these tribes had few women and the gisu culture was forced on them because they minority groups.
In anthroplogical and historical terms you cannot speak of bukusu as a distinct group , they are part of the larger masaba nation - the narrative of distinctness is a recent construct born obviously from colonial experience - the idea of being refered to as ' Mugisu' is also a contruct of colonial experience: there was never a unified identity or nationalistic sense of ' bugisuness' before the colonial enterprise. What is more important was the clan stucture :-- I more likely to have stronger bonds with my clan mates in Bukusu -- than I am to my non-clanmate neighbor in Bugisu. You are falling into the same trap as some earlier chap --- by assigning 'Masabaness to some and denying it to others; so bamasobo, badadiri, baduda, basukuya, baginyanya, bayobo, bawalasi, babumbo etc are in your eyes not bagisu - because they may have a nilo-hamite admixture. You cannot explain the absense of admixture because intermarriage is tabooish!- you would to give a timeline of when the taboo started -- it could have started in 1950 during land wrangles. Secondly Nilohamites - namely teso, and kalejin are more indigenous to that region than the bantu migrants - they were in the area and its vicinity long before bantu groups came. If you had cared to study the movement of bantu groups you would have known it was largely a male affair. Its bantu who were more likely to seek wives from the groups they encountered - you dont have to take my word ...look into genetic make up of present day bagisu, bukusu luyha bantu. There is absolutely no doubt there was significant genetic exchange between groups in the entire elgon region.
abdirahman melbourne

Netherlands

#1172 Jul 7, 2013
It might possible tutsi originated from the Ajuuran but this needs verification.
mohamed abdi

Kalmar, Sweden

#1173 Jul 19, 2013
Tutsi are from Somalia and the founders of the Ajuran state in Somalia but efter the big fight
of Aji (current somalis) and Ajuran(descendents of Tutsi) they moved to Rwanda and towards central Africa. So Welcome to ancestral somalia.

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