Are the Tutsis of Rwanda originally f...
Johnson

Uganda

#1028 Apr 10, 2012
Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text>
Again to understand any group of people in the great lakes you have to understand the entire peopling of the region.For instance light skin could be from indigenous khoisan-like groups, twa and some nilohamties.It maybe likely that nilohamtic migrants interacted with indigenous khoisan and twa groups before they ever encountered bantu -- and the bantu admix is a recent phenomenon. Many Tanzanians who are overwhelmingly Bantu are more lighter skinned than Tutsi Burundians-- pricely Because most of Tanzania was filled with khoi-san type groups . There is a cultural identifier of Tutsi in Burundi which is dark gums-- a very nilotic trait also often used in south sudan and Uganda -- a marker royals are oft proud of -- which may give credence to some sort of identifier of Nilo-hamitic ancestry. So the idea of trying to narrow any group to 'purity' is just an attempt to tinker with genetic studies to fulfil a social construct that has some political end particularly in Rwanda and Burundi.
Agreed. The Nilohamitic point is acceptable and I have said this before. The cushitic point was my area of interest. The Genetic studies show this quickly and clearly ie that the cushitic element is seen rather very quickly. If the kingdom of Kush extended from the Great lakes into Sudan and Egypt, it could be as well that influxes from the Levant are very likely. Remember that at one point Africa especially the Great Lakes was not significantly peopled and was mostly forest and lakes. Possibly with a few pygmoid groups scattered. The Levant itself by extension could at one point have been peopled by Africans, hence the possibilities of ad mixtures with others as this place seems to have been a hot bed of human nactivity at one point in time. Hence the cushitic admix in the Tutsi.
Bantu liimited

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#1029 Apr 10, 2012
Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>You say,'most Tutsi have afro hair'. That is VERY WRONG'. I dont know where you get that idea from. Afro was just a hair style that people here in Africa loved as a fashion in the early seventies. All Blacks that could make their hair stand tall tried to adopt that. Scientifically lack of the Sickle cell trait which you are refering to exactly shows that these groups are not idegenous to the Great Lakes because they were not exposed to the Malaria parasite ad infinitum. Unfortunately I would have included other groups like the Masai in my postings but the discussion was and is
about the Tutsi. If they lack the sickle cell trait, means they were not here, where were they?
It is possible that the sickle cell trait was brought by bantu from west Africa. Does anybody know whether nilots and twa(pygmies) suffer from the sickle cell?
lewis

Trois-rivières, Canada

#1030 Apr 10, 2012
Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>You say,'most Tutsi have afro hair'. That is VERY WRONG'. I dont know where you get that idea from. Afro was just a hair style that people here in Africa loved as a fashion in the early seventies. All Blacks that could make their hair stand tall tried to adopt that. Scientifically lack of the Sickle cell trait which you are refering to exactly shows that these groups are not idegenous to the Great Lakes because they were not exposed to the Malaria parasite ad infinitum. Unfortunately I would have included other groups like the Masai in my postings but the discussion was and is
about the Tutsi. If they lack the sickle cell trait, means they were not here, where were they?
I did not say that most Tutsi have afros; I wasn't talking about hairstyles there. I said that all Tutsi have afro hair texture/morphology. It's the same as the Hutu, but also Nilo-Hamitic groups like the Maasai.

Not all peoples in the Great Lakes region have the sickle cell trait. Most Nilo-Hamites, for example, don't.

So lack of the sickle cell trait, coupled with their particular genetic variant of the lactose tolerance gene and general physical appearance, suggest that the Tutsi are an off-shoot of the Nilo-Hamitic peoples of the Great Lakes region (Nilotes with some Cushitic mixture). That designation includes people like the Maasai, Samburu, Turkana, and so on.
lewis

Trois-rivières, Canada

#1031 Apr 10, 2012
Bantu liimited wrote:
<quoted text>
It is possible that the sickle cell trait was brought by bantu from west Africa. Does anybody know whether nilots and twa(pygmies) suffer from the sickle cell?
In Africa, the sickle cell trait is only present at significant frequencies in some populations.

It generally has low frequencies of around 2-15% in the Nilotic and Nilo-Hamitic groups as a whole. Some don't even have it at all.

In Bantus, it varies the most and depends a lot on location. Southeastern Bantu groups generally have high rates, whereas those more to the north in the Great Lakes region are quite heterogeneous in this respect. For instance, the trait is found in about 40% of the Makonda, while only 1% of the Kamba possess it versus an intermediate level of 27% in the Pokomo.

The trait is generally quite frequent in Pygmy communities, though there is some variation among sub-groups.

In Khoisan, it is rare and its presence is usually due to intermarriages with high-frequency southeastern Bantu tribes.

Unless there has been some mixing, the sickle cell trait is generally absent in the HOA and North African people.

http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/genbio/enger/stude...
Johnson

Uganda

#1032 Apr 10, 2012
lewis wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not say that most Tutsi have afros; I wasn't talking about hairstyles there. I said that all Tutsi have afro hair texture/morphology. It's the same as the Hutu, but also Nilo-Hamitic groups like the Maasai.
Not all peoples in the Great Lakes region have the sickle cell trait. Most Nilo-Hamites, for example, don't.
So lack of the sickle cell trait, coupled with their particular genetic variant of the lactose tolerance gene and general physical appearance, suggest that the Tutsi are an off-shoot of the Nilo-Hamitic peoples of the Great Lakes region (Nilotes with some Cushitic mixture). That designation includes people like the Maasai, Samburu, Turkana, and so on.
My interest is the cushitic admix, which I acknowledge in the other clustter groups which are actually very small in totality. Samburu, Masai and others are very small in totality to the Great Lakes population. And they are basically small communities known by different names but you could call all of them Tutsi for simplification of discussions here.

@ Bantu Ltd

The incidences of both Lactose intolerance and Sickle cells is quite high in the Bakonjo tribes and also quite high in some Nilotic tribes I know of here in Uganda.
UruEuWauWau

Caratinga, Brazil

#1033 Apr 10, 2012
Nah, they are not. ;-P @ least based on genetic evidence.

“Dereela Nomad”

Level 2

Since: Apr 10

Derela, Ethiopia

#1034 Apr 10, 2012
auntie bee wrote:
who gives a flyin fyck??????????
Well, Bantu gorillas negroes who normally would not recieve any attention from HOA in real life, Now they are desperately trying to get HOA attention because this open discussion forum is the only place where ugly bantus negroes can chat with HOA while hiding behind a computer screen, We look down on them in real life.

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

San Marcos, CA

#1035 Apr 10, 2012
Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>Agreed. The Nilohamitic point is acceptable and I have said this before. The cushitic point was my area of interest. The Genetic studies show this quickly and clearly ie that the cushitic element is seen rather very quickly. If the kingdom of Kush extended from the Great lakes into Sudan and Egypt, it could be as well that influxes from the Levant are very likely. Remember that at one point Africa especially the Great Lakes was not significantly peopled and was mostly forest and lakes. Possibly with a few pygmoid groups scattered. The Levant itself by extension could at one point have been peopled by Africans, hence the possibilities of ad mixtures with others as this place seems to have been a hot bed of human nactivity at one point in time. Hence the cushitic admix in the Tutsi.
What are you really trying to accomplish? Why are you fixated on trying to cluster Tutsi with Cushites? Or define them by only their cushitic admix and ignore the rest of who they are ( the significantly larger portion). There are Bantu groups who have an even larger cushitic admix than Tutsi ( Meru, Kamba, Kikuyu, Embu , Kisii)...and have no inkling towards the idea that this connects them to a levantian population - thus making them of levantian origin. Again I think this just a quest to find genetic evidence to fit into a social construct you already have.
Abdi Ronaldo

Liverpool, UK

#1036 Apr 10, 2012
Ameena wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Bantu gorillas negroes who normally would not recieve any attention from HOA in real life, Now they are desperately trying to get HOA attention because this open discussion forum is the only place where ugly bantus negroes can chat with HOA while hiding behind a computer screen, We look down on them in real life.
Only the self hating HOA wanabe arabs/europeans look down
on bantus, this by no means is all of us
so dont claim all HOA people are that way you disgusting
excuse for a human have some respect.
Bantu liimited

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#1037 Apr 11, 2012
Ameena wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Bantu gorillas negroes who normally would not recieve any attention from HOA in real life, Now they are desperately trying to get HOA attention because this open discussion forum is the only place where ugly bantus negroes can chat with HOA while hiding behind a computer screen, We look down on them in real life.
What are you doing on a AA forum? You know AA are related to bantus, right? Now who is looking for whose attention. LOL! The OP was somali like you.
Bantu liimited

Eskilstuna, Sweden

#1038 Apr 11, 2012
Ameena wrote:
<quoted text>
We look down on them in real life.
Nonsense. Do you know what bantus think of you? LOL! What you think of us in your stupid head is irrelevant. HOA, especially somalis are scum of the earth. Poorest part of Africa. Go figure.
Johnson

Uganda

#1039 Apr 11, 2012
Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text>What are you really trying to accomplish? Why are you fixated on trying to cluster Tutsi with Cushites? Or define them by only their cushitic admix and ignore the rest of who they are ( the significantly larger portion). There are Bantu groups who have an even larger cushitic admix than Tutsi ( Meru, Kamba, Kikuyu, Embu , Kisii)...and have no inkling towards the idea that this connects them to a levantian population - thus making them of levantian origin. Again I think this just a quest to find genetic evidence to fit into a social construct you already have.
I said that it is possible that Black populations could have inhibited the Levant at one point in time NOT the Tutsi alone. Current research into Ancient Egypt and by extension into the Levant is revealing this. If you want me to say that even the Swazis or the Baganda, there you are. I am saying that Yeboyboys BTA and by extension Egypt and the Levant harboured populations that were Black and a significant Tutsi heritage may lay therein.
LE JUSTICIER

Gent, Belgium

#1040 Apr 17, 2012
PLEASE MEN

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Level 3

Since: Nov 07

Encinitas, CA

#1041 Apr 19, 2012
Johnson wrote:
<quoted text>I said that it is possible that Black populations could have inhibited the Levant at one point in time NOT the Tutsi alone. Current research into Ancient Egypt and by extension into the Levant is revealing this. If you want me to say that even the Swazis or the Baganda, there you are. I am saying that Yeboyboys BTA and by extension Egypt and the Levant harboured populations that were Black and a significant Tutsi heritage may lay therein.
Johnson you are going in circles now - by extending your levantian theory to explain everyone else is really just an obstinate way to hold on it -- this would make it fail even more miserably. We are talking about Tutsi origins not about area's black people could have inhabited. Everything we know about them points them not very far from the areas they currently occupy .

“i don't shout and don't hate”

Level 4

Since: Mar 09

nairobi

#1042 Apr 20, 2012
Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text>What are you really trying to accomplish? Why are you fixated on trying to cluster Tutsi with Cushites? Or define them by only their cushitic admix and ignore the rest of who they are ( the significantly larger portion). There are Bantu groups who have an even larger cushitic admix than Tutsi ( Meru, Kamba, Kikuyu, Embu , Kisii)...and have no inkling towards the idea that this connects them to a levantian population - thus making them of levantian origin. Again I think this just a quest to find genetic evidence to fit into a social construct you already have.
You're still here! You have a lot of energy,more than I do.Your last sentence explains why this thread has gone so long and why Yeboyeboh has become an apostle of BTA,Bantu slavery and other weird theories.
Anyway to find a serious researcher whose findings tally with yours see:http://emmanuelkariuki.hub pages.com/hub/Akhenaten-and-th e-Kikuyu
It reveals the Egyptian migrations,Axumite history,Jewish dietary rules and customs with ancient W.Asian roots of some E.Africans.

“Thread killer”

Level 1

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1043 Apr 20, 2012
kikuyuguy wrote:
<quoted text>
You're still here! You have a lot of energy,more than I do.Your last sentence explains why this thread has gone so long and why Yeboyeboh has become an apostle of BTA,Bantu slavery and other weird theories.
Anyway to find a serious researcher whose findings tally with yours see:http://emmanuelkariuki.hub pages.com/hub/Akhenaten-and-th e-Kikuyu
It reveals the Egyptian migrations,Axumite history,Jewish dietary rules and customs with ancient W.Asian roots of some E.Africans.
Which east africans?
The kikuyu adopted many customs from the nilo-hamitic maasai and the kalenjin.

Level 3

Since: Nov 07

Encinitas, CA

#1044 Apr 20, 2012
kikuyuguy wrote:
<quoted text>
You're still here! You have a lot of energy,more than I do.Your last sentence explains why this thread has gone so long and why Yeboyeboh has become an apostle of BTA,Bantu slavery and other weird theories.
Anyway to find a serious researcher whose findings tally with yours see:http://emmanuelkariuki.hub pages.com/hub/Akhenaten-and-th e-Kikuyu
It reveals the Egyptian migrations,Axumite history,Jewish dietary rules and customs with ancient W.Asian roots of some E.Africans.
Almost every Ethnicity in Kenya claims Egyptian roots - Everyone from Bukusu, Kalejin ,kikuyu even Luo....and they all have a measure of truth to the claims but not in the direct manner they all seem to believe. Most of East Africa has Nilotic , cushitic and Nilo-Hamtic influence -- and these groups we know have connections to Nile valley civilizations.Because of high population mixing folklore has also been similarly convoluted. If you have a Bantu Speaking population with heavy cushite and nilo-hamite admix -- whose folklore would they use to use explain their possible roots. KIkuyu and all those groups claiming direct migrations from Egypt cannot do so for the obvious fact that they did not exist until fairly recently.Also Kikuyu as a Conceptually unified group is a recent construct which is largely colonial in its character. The idea of a Kikuyu nationalist identity with bonds of language and culture is a very modern concept . Kikuyu speakers of Ancient times never thought of themselves as one unified group ( at least politically) even when they were confronted by external threats . The ingroup and out-group was not necessarily defined by linguistic affinity. There were Masaai's who allied with Kikuyu's to fight other Masaai's ..there were Kikuyu 's who allied with Masaai's to fight other Kikuyu's.ingroup and out-group was largely driven by a very localized context. Secondly in much of antecedant Africa the language one spoke and culture they practiced was not neccessary the marker of identity.Most societies understood that were made up of 'different' people dispite cultural and language affinity ( like rwanda, burundi,ganda, somalia etc. language and culture as a mark of identity is a construct of european nationalism that started with Bismark in the late 1800's. So to trace Kikuyu to the time of Akhenaten, you have to prove that there was such a group who thought of themselves as 'kikuyu' at the time.
tutsi girl

Boston, MA

#1045 Apr 22, 2012
Do you think tutsi's originally come from ethiopia and somalia?
I am a tutsi and i am light skinned, have very long straight hair down to my lower back, have thin lips, and a small nose. Some people say that tutsi's and hutu's are exactly the same but i dont buy that crap. My grandparents say that there great-grandparents told them stories about moving from ethiopia and somali and that we belong to .

I would also like to get feedback from the ethiopian/ somalian comminity thannks

Level 2

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#1046 Apr 22, 2012
tutsi girl wrote:
Do you think tutsi's originally come from ethiopia and somalia?
I am a tutsi and i am light skinned, have very long straight hair down to my lower back, have thin lips, and a small nose. Some people say that tutsi's and hutu's are exactly the same but i dont buy that crap. My grandparents say that there great-grandparents told them stories about moving from ethiopia and somali and that we belong to .
I would also like to get feedback from the ethiopian/ somalian comminity thannks
tutsis R bantus. not any ethiopian. go and read a book. they have the same genes like their bantu brothers. the only thing we share with them is we R both africans PERIOD

“i don't shout and don't hate”

Level 4

Since: Mar 09

nairobi

#1047 Apr 23, 2012
Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text>Almost every Ethnicity in Kenya claims Egyptian roots - Everyone from Bukusu, Kalejin ,kikuyu even Luo....and they all have a measure of truth to the claims but not in the direct manner they all seem to believe. Most of East Africa has Nilotic , cushitic and Nilo-Hamtic influence -- and these groups we know have connections to Nile valley civilizations.Because of high population mixing folklore has also been similarly convoluted. If you have a Bantu Speaking population with heavy cushite and nilo-hamite admix -- whose folklore would they use to use explain their possible roots. KIkuyu and all those groups claiming direct migrations from Egypt cannot do so for the obvious fact that they did not exist until fairly recently.Also Kikuyu as a Conceptually unified group is a recent construct which is largely colonial in its character. The idea of a Kikuyu nationalist identity with bonds of language and culture is a very modern concept . Kikuyu speakers of Ancient times never thought of themselves as one unified group ( at least politically) even when they were confronted by external threats . The ingroup and out-group was not necessarily defined by linguistic affinity. There were Masaai's who allied with Kikuyu's to fight other Masaai's ..there were Kikuyu 's who allied with Masaai's to fight other Kikuyu's.ingroup and out-group was largely driven by a very localized context. Secondly in much of antecedant Africa the language one spoke and culture they practiced was not neccessary the marker of identity.Most societies understood that were made up of 'different' people dispite cultural and language affinity ( like rwanda, burundi,ganda, somalia etc. language and culture as a mark of identity is a construct of european nationalism that started with Bismark in the late 1800's. So to trace Kikuyu to the time of Akhenaten, you have to prove that there was such a group who thought of themselves as 'kikuyu' at the time.
That Akhenaten piece made me rethink things,eg the whole Congo forest Bantu migration story. That jungle is actually a giant barrier to human travel and history books say it was a highway for the bantu migration! Even now the Ituri is practically impenetrable! Imagine how large the forest would have been 1500-2000 years ago when Bantus were all supposedly using it as a convenient corridor to access E,S and C.Africa.
That's why I find the Egyptian,Axumite,W.Asian theory of not just Kyukes but others much more plausible.

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