African-American Forum

Are the Tutsis of Rwanda originally from Somalia?

Posted in the African-American Forum

Bantu limited of Eskilstuna, Sweden on Jan 31, 2012

Yeboyeboh wrote:
@BANTU Limited:
"Is there a genetic study that links Tutsi to jews and the gallas?"
Such studies need to be carefully managed. All what is being circulated on the web around the Tutsi DNA patterns is pure 'propaganda' fabrications. Only when the Tutsi Jewish scholars will have made their own analysis,using samples of family members they know well, will the world know about the Tutsi DNA. Cause nobody knows where the samples are taken from.That's the point !
Give me a good reason why anybody would falsify Tutsi Dna results? You live the US, have thought of taking one? Are there any Tutsi who have taken Dna tests that have who them to be Jewish?

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Jan 31, 2012

@BANTU Limited:

I'm sorry ! Who needs DNA to know that his/her mother is his/her mother ?

Drabbo of San Diego, CA on Jan 31, 2012

Yeboyeboh wrote:
@DRABBO:
"If tutsi dont give their daughters to non-tutsi -- then it looks like their daughters are voting with their feet and marrying these non-tutsi . There is so much wide spread intermarriage to non-tutsi -- in many parts of east africa nobody even knows who is tutsi and who is not. And you you really for East africa -- you should be aware of the popular view about the 'generosity' of Tutsi women."
Watch this video and tell everybody if the story of this Tutsi woman reflects exactly what you call the "generous tutsi woman" ? Raped by tens hutu killers, who made her drink blood of her tutsi relatives, and all kinds of demonic demonstrations of hatred and evil...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =a-auO4EmQVIXX&feature=rel ated
Are You serious when you say that you don,t know who is tutsi and who is not in East Africa ? Every African will recognize a Tutsi features at distance (except you). Just look at this Tutsi woman, even completely destroyed as she is, and tell your friends (not me) that you do not see the difference between her and the Hutu (or what you call "Bantu" women !!!)
You won't succeed to escape evil and curse by conquering the Tutsi Kush Jewish tribes. The task will all the time stand above your poor skills and your wicked efforts.
Isn't now quite self evident who the purveyor of propaganda is ?

Drabbo of San Diego, CA on Jan 31, 2012

Yeboyeboh wrote:
@ABAPONDO:
I VALUE YOUR INTEREST. CAN ONLY SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE TUTSI JEWISH IDIOMS
1) The "Bantu" as a language (or as a race) doesn't exist. It is a theoretical fabrication made up for non-linguistical purposes, on the model of the then-recently coined "Indo-European" mother-tongue for the whole european population (sometimes by the early 19th cent to illustrate the migration directions'theory"). As you might know, nobody in the world speaks the so-called "indo-european". Only some 'europeocentric' Africans are fed with such fictional tales about a so-called family of languages based on a single word "BANTU"... It is really pathetic to find serious persons standing for such a linguistical non-sense. I know what I'm saying.
2)The Tutsi speak the JUDEO-KUSHITE (Prof. Joseph Greenberg of University of California calls it the AFRO-ASIATIC Family). Just like the Jews of the wide diaspora who speak a variety of Hebrew "substract" mixed with other historical "adstracts" and "superstracts". In Europe there was the YIDDISH; in Spain, there was the LADINO; in the Maghreb the JUDEO-BERBER dominated, and in the Great Lakes (i.e., the traditional biotope for the Tutsi agro-pastoralist Jews, since the time of the biblical Patriarchs, masters of the land and the cattle of the Upper Nile basin), the JUDEO-KUSH is still spoken.There is no mystery of anything about it.
Thanks !
Your delusions ofa Tutsi- Jewish connection are just baffling. However I agree with you on one point that there is no such thing as a 'bantu' race. The Tutsi link to Kush would be having a a nilohamtic connection --- which by the way would include almost the entire population of Kenya , northern tanzania, Uganda -- Most Bantu speakers in the east africa have nilo-hamtic ancestry . Tusti are more indigenous to the east africa than Bantu groups.Elongated pastoralist African people are more indigenous to east africa than Bantu's -- this includes masai, samburu, pokot, karimonjoy, iteso , Nandi , kipsigis etc

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Jan 31, 2012

@DRABBO:

MORE MATERIALS FROM THE PRESS FOR ALL INTERESTED:

1) About what you call "the purveyer of propaganda", I'm not sure to understand what you meant.
2) Any way i just want to share with you this comment from the londonian GUARDIAN website, following an article by journalist Josh KRON: "ISRAEL IN AFRICA"

FROM ARTICLE:

“In Rwanda,'Jewish' has mysteriously ended up becoming shorthand for 'Tutsi'”
“ To Tutsis, the genealogical lineage to Ethiopia connects them to a greater constellation including ancient Hebrews.
For people like Claude Bizimana, a former soldier who fought alongside President Paul Kagame, the link has become a useful shorthand.
"That's where the Jews lived," he says, pointing to a shadowy suburban Kigali home in the dark starry night. "Those were all non-Jews," he says, moving his finger all around. When he introduces me to his friends he begins with a familiar greeting. "He is also a Jew," Claude says to me. "Josh is an Israelite too," he says to his friend”

FROM COMMENTS SECTION:

“TheHebrewHammer “
9 February 2010 8:18AM:

“I had the pleasure of having more then one conversation with Immigrants from Rwanda when I'm in Milan, and they all claim to be descendent of king Solomon and the queen of Sheba . Very nice people”

SOURCE:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belie...

Bantu limited of Eskilstuna, Sweden on Jan 31, 2012

Drabbo wrote:
Most Bantu speakers in the east africa have nilo-hamtic ancestry . Tusti are more indigenous to the east africa than Bantu groups.Elongated pastoralist African people are more indigenous to east africa than Bantu's -- this includes masai, samburu, pokot, karimonjoy, iteso , Nandi , kipsigis etc
Where do you get your info that most bantu are of nilo-hamitic ancestry? E1b1a could be regarded as a bantu marker. Even among the Kikuyu who have mixed alot with nilo-himites and cushetic, E1b1a averages 85%(for all Kenyan bantus). The Baganda who are close the tutsi have E1b1a at 77%, shockingly lower than tutsi at 82%. I do not think the MtDna of bantu is any different. It is in south Africa where you find bantus with less than 50% E1b1a.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E1b1a... (Y-DNA)

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Jan 31, 2012

@DRABBO:

1) About your latest statement: that my "delusions ofa Tutsi- Jewish connection are just baffling", I'm lucky to have additional materials for you. It is bout a recent JEWISH-TUTSI joint event in New York, called:

"JEWS AND TUTSI: ORAL HISTORY AS JUSTICE"

You can enjoy a whole range of nice pictures.

http://www.byfi.org/news/...

The Tutsi-Jewish connection is engaged in a new cycle, and nothing, even nobody can stop it. When you have hard dealing with the fact, remember the statement from prominent german scholar in the 18s,Wilhlem HUMBOLDT; it's exactly about how people deal with knowledge that makes them unconfortable:

"At first they reject the fact,
Then they minimize it,
Finally they say that it is known for a long time "

Drabbo of San Diego, CA on Jan 31, 2012

Bantu limited wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do you get your info that most bantu are of nilo-hamitic ancestry? E1b1a could be regarded as a bantu marker. Even among the Kikuyu who have mixed alot with nilo-himites and cushetic, E1b1a averages 85%(for all Kenyan bantus). The Baganda who are close the tutsi have E1b1a at 77%, shockingly lower than tutsi at 82%. I do not think the MtDna of bantu is any different. It is in south Africa where you find bantus with less than 50% E1b1a.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E1b1a... (Y-DNA)
I said they have Nilo-hamitic ancestry -- never said they are Nilo-Hamites. First the idea of an average Kikuyu or average Muganda is can yield terribly erroneous results - this has been a bone of contention when collecting DNA samples. The assumption always assumes social formation similar to european groups where there is marked homogeneity amoung people who speak the same language and same culture . In Africa social formation was highly complex and did not follow that logic. There is very high heterogeneity even within groups. Amoung kikuyu-- its not unusual to find those from Nyeri purely nilo-hamite while those from Nyandarua will have large cushitic admix -- then kiambu will be purely bantu , and indeed some are purely cushites ( at least genetically speaking) i.e Kikuyu have never been a homogeneous population - you can apply the same logic to ganda, soga and luhya. Ganda from Masaka are in all respects Rwandese -- that may explain the lower markers-- if samples were obtained from southwest Buganda -- to compare with Tutsi's you are essentially comparing the same population. You cannot make sound conclusions from clustering people based linguistic and cultural affinity -- From such an argument Tutsi should then be purely bantu!

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Jan 31, 2012

@DRABBO; BANTU Limited; KIKUYUGUY:

1) I know something about African history, population distribution in time and space, ancient and modern civilizations and cultures, all this at a confortable scholarly level. I took courses on Levi-Strauss, Malinowski, Franz Bopp, etc... and I was carefully instructed about Wilhelm BLEEK's purpose while making-up the concept of BANTU, with all kinds of further uses and misuses, including, with Carl MEINHOFF, Malcolm GUTHRIE, Jan VANSINA, Alexis KAGAME, Placide TEMPELS, Eboussi BOULAGA, etc.
2) Could you please doubble-check what you put under the concept of "BANTU" ! cause you still do not get the point. Do you want me to bring some more witnesses for the real strategy behind that articial colonial concept, if Dudly KIDD (The Essential Kaffir) is not enough ?
3) I do respect all those who feel confortable to call themselves BANTU(without knowing what that concept means), but definetely, the TUTSI JEWS cannot be called BANTU, the very simple reason being that nothing called BANTU ever existed in the real african world, be it as a "language family" (i.e., African counterpart to the artificial "Indo-European") or as a "race". "BANTU" in linguistics is used as a CATEGORY, like "GENDER", or "TENSE", or "ASPECT", etc. You'll never see, hear, or touch a TENSE. You guys are stuck on a racial illusion of "BANTU" as a group of population. That's not serious.
4) These so-called genetic studies involving population categories like BANTU, or NILOTICS, or HAMITO-NILOTICS, might claim the qualification of ideological/political business, and not science. Genetic analysts when they are serious should take their samples from well-known parental structures such as "Clans", "Tribes", and at a high level, "Nations".
5) The language you speak will in any way help determining your DNA affiliation; otherwise, both of you could be eligible for the IRISH or ANGLO-SAXON genetic status as far as DNA analysis is concerned, since you speak a good ENGLISH.

6)So, please be careful not to misuse the BANTU category. Even its linguistic status is held under harsh questionning by serious scientists...

7) The racial/genetic status of the "BANTU" category has been removed from the scientific scene since at least 5 decades.

Bantu limited of Eskilstuna, Sweden on Feb 1, 2012

Yeboyeboh wrote:
@DRABBO; BANTU Limited; KIKUYUGUY:
1) I know something about African history, population distribution in time and space, ancient and modern civilizations and cultures, all this at a confortable scholarly level. I took courses on Levi-Strauss, Malinowski, Franz Bopp, etc... and I was carefully instructed about Wilhelm BLEEK's purpose while making-up the concept of BANTU, with all kinds of further uses and misuses, including, with Carl MEINHOFF, Malcolm GUTHRIE, Jan VANSINA, Alexis KAGAME, Placide TEMPELS, Eboussi BOULAGA, etc.
2) Could you please doubble-check what you put under the concept of "BANTU" ! cause you still do not get the point. Do you want me to bring some more witnesses for the real strategy behind that articial colonial concept, if Dudly KIDD (The Essential Kaffir) is not enough ?
3) I do respect all those who feel confortable to call themselves BANTU(without knowing what that concept means), but definetely, the TUTSI JEWS cannot be called BANTU, the very simple reason being that nothing called BANTU ever existed in the real african world, be it as a "language family" (i.e., African counterpart to the artificial "Indo-European") or as a "race". "BANTU" in linguistics is used as a CATEGORY, like "GENDER", or "TENSE", or "ASPECT", etc. You'll never see, hear, or touch a TENSE. You guys are stuck on a racial illusion of "BANTU" as a group of population. That's not serious.
4) These so-called genetic studies involving population categories like BANTU, or NILOTICS, or HAMITO-NILOTICS, might claim the qualification of ideological/political business, and not science. Genetic analysts when they are serious should take their samples from well-known parental structures such as "Clans", "Tribes", and at a high level, "Nations".
5) The language you speak will in any way help determining your DNA affiliation; otherwise, both of you could be eligible for the IRISH or ANGLO-SAXON genetic status as far as DNA analysis is concerned, since you speak a good ENGLISH.
6)So, please be careful not to misuse the BANTU category. Even its linguistic status is held under harsh questionning by serious scientists...
7) The racial/genetic status of the "BANTU" category has been removed from the scientific scene since at least 5 decades.
Bantu is not a foreign word like Africa or Ivory coast. In all bantu languages of Africa BANTU means people. Bantu languages are closely related. Among the bagandas and Zulus Abantu means the same thing. E1b1a is a unifier of the bantus people besides MtDna.

Bantu limited of Eskilstuna, Sweden on Feb 1, 2012

Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text> I said they have Nilo-hamitic ancestry -- never said they are Nilo-Hamites. First the idea of an average Kikuyu or average Muganda is can yield terribly erroneous results - this has been a bone of contention when collecting DNA samples. The assumption always assumes social formation similar to european groups where there is marked homogeneity amoung people who speak the same language and same culture . In Africa social formation was highly complex and did not follow that logic. There is very high heterogeneity even within groups. Amoung kikuyu-- its not unusual to find those from Nyeri purely nilo-hamite while those from Nyandarua will have large cushitic admix -- then kiambu will be purely bantu , and indeed some are purely cushites ( at least genetically speaking) i.e Kikuyu have never been a homogeneous population - you can apply the same logic to ganda, soga and luhya. Ganda from Masaka are in all respects Rwandese -- that may explain the lower markers-- if samples were obtained from southwest Buganda -- to compare with Tutsi's you are essentially comparing the same population. You cannot make sound conclusions from clustering people based linguistic and cultural affinity -- From such an argument Tutsi should then be purely bantu!
So you are saying the method of Dna samplying used all over the world and accepted by mainstream science is wrong.*rolleyes* Am Aware that most tribes did absorb the people they encountered along the way or took them in. It is well known that the bagandas of masaka are mostly Rwandese. The king of buganda gave bugerere to nilots and other tribes. Bugerere is cosmopolitan. There are people from as far as Kenya living in Bugerere. Despite Banganda of Masaka being closer to Rwandese they are still E1b1a like other bagandas. There is study done the Nilots in northern Uganda. The result showed that there was very little genetic exchange with their Banganda neighbours and vise versa. Not even the banyoro and batoro, who adopted Luo names and culture, have been affected genetically. Only the elite where Luo.

All in all there are no totally homogenous people. Not even the English. Saw a program (100% English)that showed the english come from diverse origins. From south asians through russia to southern europe. All are represented among the English people.

Bantu limited of Eskilstuna, Sweden on Feb 1, 2012

Yeboyeboh wrote:
@DRABBO; BANTU Limited; KIKUYUGUY:
1) I know something about African history, population distribution in time and space, ancient and modern civilizations and cultures, all this at a confortable scholarly level. I took courses on Levi-Strauss, Malinowski, Franz Bopp, etc... and I was carefully instructed about Wilhelm BLEEK's purpose while making-up the concept of BANTU, with all kinds of further uses and misuses, including, with Carl MEINHOFF, Malcolm GUTHRIE, Jan VANSINA, Alexis KAGAME, Placide TEMPELS, Eboussi BOULAGA, etc.
2) Could you please doubble-check what you put under the concept of "BANTU" ! cause you still do not get the point. Do you want me to bring some more witnesses for the real strategy behind that articial colonial concept, if Dudly KIDD (The Essential Kaffir) is not enough ?
3) I do respect all those who feel confortable to call themselves BANTU(without knowing what that concept means), but definetely, the TUTSI JEWS cannot be called BANTU, the very simple reason being that nothing called BANTU ever existed in the real african world, be it as a "language family" (i.e., African counterpart to the artificial "Indo-European") or as a "race". "BANTU" in linguistics is used as a CATEGORY, like "GENDER", or "TENSE", or "ASPECT", etc. You'll never see, hear, or touch a TENSE. You guys are stuck on a racial illusion of "BANTU" as a group of population. That's not serious.
4) These so-called genetic studies involving population categories like BANTU, or NILOTICS, or HAMITO-NILOTICS, might claim the qualification of ideological/political business, and not science. Genetic analysts when they are serious should take their samples from well-known parental structures such as "Clans", "Tribes", and at a high level, "Nations".
5) The language you speak will in any way help determining your DNA affiliation; otherwise, both of you could be eligible for the IRISH or ANGLO-SAXON genetic status as far as DNA analysis is concerned, since you speak a good ENGLISH.
6)So, please be careful not to misuse the BANTU category. Even its linguistic status is held under harsh questionning by serious scientists...
7) The racial/genetic status of the "BANTU" category has been removed from the scientific scene since at least 5 decades.
Indeed, Tutsi are not bantu but speak a bantu language(IMO). The bantu race is real so is relatedness of the languages. iF I MET A RANDOM BANTU PERSON FROM from any country, i would not be able tell whether he is my country man or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E1b1a... (Y-DNA)

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Feb 1, 2012

@ BANTU Limited:

"The bantu race is real so is relatedness of the languages"

1) So you still don't understand in which local and international context the BANTU category was made up in the South African Transval and amplified in the West African areas, in the vicinity of the GORE Island ?

2) You don't understand that whenever a SWEDEN racial census is summoned you'll never be eligible, whatever your mastering of the Sweden language (that every human on this earth can learn and master in a few months)? INTERESTING !

3) Only a tribal entity matches a language extension. BANTU is not a tribal entity. And your so-called BANTU people have never been anything looking like a PEOPLE. The 240 tribes of the pre-leopoldian CONGO didn't understand each other before LINGALA was coined by the fighting monks (or whatever missionaries) and imposed as a "national language" under the MOBUTU regime. The potential relationships between the tribes were about killing each other or/and enslaving each other after bloody expeditions.

4) Don't miss the opportunity to learn from the "heroic" accomplishments of the famous Chief MSRI from the now-East-Tanzania up to the Shaba/Katanga; you'll never make again the mistake to call BANTU a people or a language.

5) I repeat: BANTU is a category, a criteria of "classification" (that is the single word "bantu" that you mention), i.e. a REASON being (in the aristotelician philosophy), like the CAPACITY, or the WHITENESS, or the ROUNDNESS, or the FREEDOM, or the HUMANITY, etc...

6) The Tutsi speak the JUDEO-KUSH. I have been as clear as possible about that. Including by refering you to the etymology of the ethnic word "TUTSI" as a pure hebrew word (TETSE, meaning, "Those who will go forth...(and will come back). Thus the nomadic and later semi-nomadic caracteristics of the Tutsi Jews as cattle keeping Jewish Tribes.

Bantu limited of Eskilstuna, Sweden on Feb 1, 2012

Yeboyeboh wrote:
@ BANTU Limited:
"The bantu race is real so is relatedness of the languages"
1) So you still don't understand in which local and international context the BANTU category was made up in the South African Transval and amplified in the West African areas, in the vicinity of the GORE Island ?
.
Ok. Let us forget the term bantu for a moment. The people of East, central and southern Africa do not only share phenotype but language and genetics too. They came out a small group of people who left west Africa some 5000 years ago and swept accross the continent. We could come up with another name for this group, it would not change anything. They are still a closely related people on average. Look at bantu people as you would germanic people. Germanic people do not only share related languages but genetics and phenotype. I think Jews(your race. LOL!) is too diverse to qualify as a race. The only thing jews have in common is the jewish faith and not genetic. Most so call Ethiopian Jews do not carry semetic genetic markers. Many of them carrry nilotic A and E1b1b. You "Jew" Tutsis belong to west Africa/ bantu E1b1a group genetically. You have no genetic link to semetic jew. The only Africans who have genetic connection to semetic jews are Lemba, who are virtually indistinguishable from their bantus neighbours.

Drabbo of Carlsbad, CA on Feb 1, 2012

Bantu limited wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are saying the method of Dna samplying used all over the world and accepted by mainstream science is wrong.*rolleyes* Am Aware that most tribes did absorb the people they encountered along the way or took them in. It is well known that the bagandas of masaka are mostly Rwandese. The king of buganda gave bugerere to nilots and other tribes. Bugerere is cosmopolitan. There are people from as far as Kenya living in Bugerere. Despite Banganda of Masaka being closer to Rwandese they are still E1b1a like other bagandas. There is study done the Nilots in northern Uganda. The result showed that there was very little genetic exchange with their Banganda neighbours and vise versa. Not even the banyoro and batoro, who adopted Luo names and culture, have been affected genetically. Only the elite where Luo.
All in all there are no totally homogenous people. Not even the English. Saw a program (100% English)that showed the english come from diverse origins. From south asians through russia to southern europe. All are represented among the English people.
Sampling has to make certain presumptions and approximations of homogeneity.....The methods employed to approximate homogeneity among English and other European population should be markedly different than those used for African populations - but they are not . Also Mtdna alone does not tell the whole story--especially in Africa....where wife raiding and movement of men only populations for pasture was an embedded cultural norm for centuries. The Rwandese component in Buganda is from been a very long history of population exchange...I'm not talking about recent rwnadese pop movements.....like nilotes in bugerere , kwakwa in bombo , bagisu in mukono etc Even the luo component in all the interlacustrine royal houses is fairly recent -- happened during the influence of the bito dynasty . My concern is about more ancient population contributions to form the people we know as baganda.

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Feb 1, 2012

@BANTU Limited:

"Ok. Let us forget the term bantu for a moment. The people of East, central and southern Africa do not only share phenotype but language and genetics too."

1) It is important to forget the term BANTU for ever, not just for a moment. It is a crucial pre-condition for a safe scientific move through history, DNA studies and so on.

2) Do you imagine what kind of DNA science and population design a lab could be promoting by collecting indistinctively samples all over the former British Empire (now the Commonwealth) under the pretext that all these people speak English ?

3)Are you serious when you say that "The people of East, central and southern Africa do not only share phenotype" ? And how do you think a Hutu from Ruhengeri (North Rwanda)could recognize a Tutsi from Makamba (South Burundi)at his 1994 road block, given that the Burundi ID didn't bear the "ethnic" mention ? And no error has ever been made ! Ask those who know. It is a genuine crime that is called the "facies crime". Even western Jews know what it means since centuries in the hands of the Christian population and powers.

4) How can such a range of population share the same DNA, when they even do not eat the same items. A Tutsi will never share anything with someone who eats fish, birds,mushroom, lezards, sankes, insects, etc.. We call it rules of KASHRUT.

5) It is difficult and quite impossible for no-tutsi africans to marry a Tutsi woman and for Tutsi males to marry a non-Jew woman, on a regular basis ! And this has nothing to do with racism or anything like that. It has to do with strict rules of family orthodoxy as related to the issue of marriage and diet. I know of Tutsi friends from Rwand who renounced chosing a wife among the Tutsi girls of Burundi, just because, as families were scaterred after the 1959 deportation, they could not have anybody among their native family to tell them which Tutsi family in Burundi is appropriate for their family or not.
You have to understand that the laws of marriage are completely different from a tribe to the next in Africa. How can you marry a Tutsi woman when you do not speak the language and can not even apply for the pre-test of spelling your ancestry (your clan, your ancestors up to the 7th generation) with witnesses to testify, and without making a single mistake of protocols during the complex and long "mohar code" process (You may submit yourself and your whole family at a close investigation, either public or secret-)?

Even among the Tutsi clans, we do not intermarry as we want. You just can't understand !

Bantu limited of Eskilstuna, Sweden on Feb 1, 2012

Yeboyeboh wrote:
@BANTU Limited:
How can such a range of population share the same DNA, when they even do not eat the same items. A Tutsi will never share anything with someone who eats fish, birds,mushroom, lezards, sankes, insects, etc.. We call it rules of KASHRUT !
Honestly I do not get the point you are trying to make. We are aware that a tutsi looks different from hutu. BBut true hutu does not look any different from say a muganda. A Uganda does not look different from a Shona. They belong to same race. LOL! What make you tutsis jews, can you tell me? What is it the you share with jews? You wanna tell us a muganda and a Hutu are less related to each other than you and jews?! Man, you are a riot. LOL!

I think I get, bantu unity in a threat to you, right?

Drabbo of San Diego, CA on Feb 1, 2012

Yeboyeboh wrote:
@BANTU Limited:
"Ok. Let us forget the term bantu for a moment. The people of East, central and southern Africa do not only share phenotype but language and genetics too."
1) It is important to forget the term BANTU for ever, not just for a moment. It is a crucial pre-condition for a safe scientific move through history, DNA studies and so on.
2) Do you imagine what kind of DNA science and population design a lab could be promoting by collecting indistinctively samples all over the former British Empire (now the Commonwealth) under the pretext that all these people speak English ?
3)Are you serious when you say that "The people of East, central and southern Africa do not only share phenotype" ? And how do you think a Hutu from Ruhengeri (North Rwanda)could recognize a Tutsi from Makamba (South Burundi)at his 1994 road block, given that the Burundi ID didn't bear the "ethnic" mention ? And no error has ever been made ! Ask those who know. It is a genuine crime that is called the "facies crime". Even western Jews know what it means since centuries in the hands of the Christian population and powers.
4) How can such a range of population share the same DNA, when they even do not eat the same items. A Tutsi will never share anything with someone who eats fish, birds,mushroom, lezards, sankes, insects, etc.. We call it rules of KASHRUT.
5) It is difficult and quite impossible for no-tutsi africans to marry a Tutsi woman and for Tutsi males to marry a non-Jew woman, on a regular basis ! And this has nothing to do with racism or anything like that. It has to do with strict rules of family orthodoxy as related to the issue of marriage and diet. I know of Tutsi friends from Rwand who renounced chosing a wife among the Tutsi girls of Burundi, just because, as families were scaterred after the 1959 deportation, they could not have anybody among their native family to tell them which Tutsi family in Burundi is appropriate for their family or not.
You have to understand that the laws of marriage are completely different from a tribe to the next in Africa. How can you marry a Tutsi woman when you do not speak the language and can not even apply for the pre-test of spelling your ancestry (your clan, your ancestors up to the 7th generation) with witnesses to testify, and without making a single mistake of protocols during the complex and long "mohar code" process (You may submit yourself and your whole family at a close investigation, either public or secret-)?
Even among the Tutsi clans, we do not intermarry as we want. You just can't understand !
Your DNA make is not influenced by what you eat -- its who you have sex with ! Maybe I should communicate in Kirundi for you to understand -- on second thought no -- how the hell would I translate Deoxyribonucleic acid?! approx 800,000 were killed in the rwanda genocide about 380,000 where hutu -- killed for mainly two reasons- 1. accused of colloborating with tutsi 2. mistaken for being tutsi. Clearly the stereotypical tutsi phenotype applied to numerous Hutu's --- naturally because Rwanda -- and Burundi are really hybrid societies .

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Feb 1, 2012

@DRABBO:

"Your DNA make is not influenced by what you eat -- its who you have sex with !"

1)That's what I'm trying to bring up in your mind (see:#582; paragr.5). No DNA connection without inter-sex, and without intermarriage ! My question was how a so-called BANTU, could marry a Tutsi woman(and be allowed to legaly have children with her)in the context of the Orthodox traditional Tutsi Jewish society of Burundi-Rwanda-Kivu-Buha-Ankol e,etc...
The answer is very simple, but you seem to ignore the fact now, you, "modern" guys: NO WAY !!!

2)Ask any Tutsi from Burundi who was about 20 years old in the 1980s. Cases arose of number of Tutsi fathers taken to jail by the "progressist" regime headed by BAGAZA (a Hima-Tutsi president), just because the Tutsi father/and family had rejected a hutu candidate who was willing to marry his daughter. And this happens in the 1980s.

3) In the 1880s, before the fighting monks entered the kingdoms, such struggles could never happen. Because everybody was instructed by parents and parrents' parents in which circle he had to look for a wife for his son. Things were set up quite early, even when the boy or the girl was about 10 years old (legends tell that draft-contracts could be set up even earlier). The phenomenon called "GUKWERERA INDA IYINDI" is not just a legend... Those who know know ! Ask Tutsi married friends (if you know some...genuine ones) what dreadful struggle they went through while attempting to fill up application for marrying their current wife. You just can't understand ! It's a hell.

4) Sometimes modern Tutsi youngsters (raised in cities and at the college age) would feel like unfortunate to be born "Tutsi Jews" and not like other populations around who just have to deal with the reverse situation (i.e.,too many potential wives available just for one guy). But very quickly they get the point...

YOU JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND ! THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY OF A LEGAL HYBRIDATION PATTERN IN A TUTSI JEWISH CONTROLLED SOCIETY.

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Feb 1, 2012

@DRABBO:

"Tusti are more indigenous to the east africa than Bantu groups.Elongated pastoralist African people are more indigenous to east africa than Bantu's -- this includes masai, samburu, pokot, karimonjoy, iteso , Nandi , kipsigis etc "

You're right. And there are well-known historical reasons for such an indigenous settlement. If I knew who you are, I'd be eager to share a little bit more about what i know. Thanks for sharing the insight.

Nambooze of Uganda on Feb 1, 2012

Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text>If there is any such thing as a Tutsi-Jew -- then they are obviously recent converts , Just like the bayudaya jews who live on the slopes of Mt elgon and The Ibo Benei-Yisrael Jews of Nigeria. If tutsi dont give their daughters to non-tutsi -- then it looks like their daughters are voting with their feet and marrying these non-tutsi . There is so much wide spread intermarriage to non-tutsi -- in many parts of east africa nobody even knows who is tutsi and who is not. And you you really for East africa -- you should be aware of the popular view about the 'generosity' of Tutsi women.
We should not generalise and be abusive on here. I know the baganda and basoga who are more generous than the the tutsi women or any other women around here. Lets be more mindful with our language here on the public forum.

Drabbo of San Diego, CA on Feb 2, 2012

Nambooze wrote:
<quoted text>We should not generalise and be abusive on here. I know the baganda and basoga who are more generous than the the tutsi women or any other women around here. Lets be more mindful with our language here on the public forum.
Ok Ms Class monitor ! What is so abusive about pointing out a well known public view in Uganda :- you should question why society particularly in Uganda holds it - and yes society tends to generalize. Its not necessarily true and its not even my point of view . The point I was making to our 'Tutsi-Jew' friend is that intermarriage between Tusti and non Tutsi populations is just so prevalent in east africa-- I dont even find it worthy of debate.

Drabbo of San Diego, CA on Feb 2, 2012

Yeboyeboh wrote:
@DRABBO:
"Your DNA make is not influenced by what you eat -- its who you have sex with !"
1)That's what I'm trying to bring up in your mind (see:#582; paragr.5). No DNA connection without inter-sex, and without intermarriage ! My question was how a so-called BANTU, could marry a Tutsi woman(and be allowed to legaly have children with her)in the context of the Orthodox traditional Tutsi Jewish society of Burundi-Rwanda-Kivu-Buha-Ankol e,etc...
The answer is very simple, but you seem to ignore the fact now, you, "modern" guys: NO WAY !!!
2)Ask any Tutsi from Burundi who was about 20 years old in the 1980s. Cases arose of number of Tutsi fathers taken to jail by the "progressist" regime headed by BAGAZA (a Hima-Tutsi president), just because the Tutsi father/and family had rejected a hutu candidate who was willing to marry his daughter. And this happens in the 1980s.
3) In the 1880s, before the fighting monks entered the kingdoms, such struggles could never happen. Because everybody was instructed by parents and parrents' parents in which circle he had to look for a wife for his son. Things were set up quite early, even when the boy or the girl was about 10 years old (legends tell that draft-contracts could be set up even earlier). The phenomenon called "GUKWERERA INDA IYINDI" is not just a legend... Those who know know ! Ask Tutsi married friends (if you know some...genuine ones) what dreadful struggle they went through while attempting to fill up application for marrying their current wife. You just can't understand ! It's a hell.
4) Sometimes modern Tutsi youngsters (raised in cities and at the college age) would feel like unfortunate to be born "Tutsi Jews" and not like other populations around who just have to deal with the reverse situation (i.e.,too many potential wives available just for one guy). But very quickly they get the point...
YOU JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND ! THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY OF A LEGAL HYBRIDATION PATTERN IN A TUTSI JEWISH CONTROLLED SOCIETY.
OK buddy here are the facts :
1. Tutsi are Bantid Nilo- hamites i.e the y have as much bantu ancestry as the they do nilo hamite.
2. The idea of 'ethnic purity' does not exist in a single society in Africa .
3. The is absolutely no genetic connection between Tutsi and semitic groups.
4.Judaism as an indigenous religion in rwanda or burundi has never been practiced-- any modern practitioners are recent converts
5.The connection to jews is the shared experience of genocide -- making biological connection because a shared social experience is probably the most spectacularly delusional thing anyone can do.

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Feb 2, 2012

@DRABBO:

THE TUTSI JEWS KNOW VERY CLEARLY WHO THEY ARE, AND THEY NEED NO LESSON FROM ANYBODY WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THEIR PAST AND THEIR PRESENT WAYS. I APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHTS ALL OF YOU ON THIS FORUM, BUT HAVE NO LESSON TO TAKE FROM ANYBODY WHO DOESN'T SHARE MY MEMORY AS A TUTSI JEW. AND MEMORY IS CRITICAL EVERYWHERE AND FOR EVERYBODY. JUST A FEW REFLECTIONS:

1) I spent a bit time reading back this discussion's archives since the beginning departing the 2008-2009, and find myself ashamed not to have been part of so bright, talented and carefully documented conversations a couple of years ago.

2) I'm sorry I didn't know that all we are trying to get understood was explained by TUTSI-HIMA-OROMOS-ETHIOPIANS brothers in so built a way that everybody had to acknowledge their utmost awareness and scholarship.

3) These are among others, JOHNSON from Uganda; DINKA from Ethiopia; PETER from Rwanda; RWANDAN WOMAN from Rwanda; PRINCESS from USA; MOHAMED from Norway; FATOUM from Australia; RUKS from Uganda; HIM from London; YEDIDIA from USA; SINAJUAVI from WV; BENITEZ from (not sure fo the metion); Mr TUTSI from Rwanda; MILEMBE from Brooklyn/ NY/USA; FABOLO from Paris; KAHIN from Maidenehead/UK; DUDUZI from #312, p.15; OROMO_BOY from UK; ROBIN GOODFELLOW from GA; RIDWAN from UK, Mr_T from Canada; etc...

4) All these fellows gave up discussing with stubborn people as some we see cwawling here.

5) I send a call to of them: COME BACK AND MAKE YOUR BRIGHT CONTRIBITIONS STRENGHTENED EVER.I'M A TUTSI JEW, AND WILL HAVE JUST A FEW DAYS BREAK TO TEACH THESE SO-CALLED "BANTU" WHO WE ARE EXCATLY.

6) I have a lot to share from my Tutsi Jewish background, in terms of Timeline, World History, Kush-Jewish Theology, Egyptology,timeline Geopolitics of Jewish Kush, etc...

7) I notice that sometime on April 22, 2009; #138; p.7, our friend KIKUYUGUY had to deal with the same issues we are dealing with, as it says below:

"Princess i think something is missing in your explanation . I agree with you that tutsi people speak bantu language but it's not a pure bantu language it's a combination of bantu and some midlle east language . Let me give you some example the word SHEMA means the same in HEBREW and TUTSI bantu language . The word BIN or BEN or BENE is not bantu . The tutsi culture is not at all bantu ; tutsi people respect KOSHER FOOD that means they cannot mix meat and diary product the same diet is found among JEWS . Tutsi means those who came from somewhere . We don't know where . Dear princess we know that Somali Bantu are SOMALI they speak Somali and don't know any single bantu language word ; do you have the same ancestry ? We acha maringo ."

Bantu limited of Eskilstuna, Sweden on Feb 2, 2012

Yeboyeboh wrote:
@DRABBO:
6) I have a lot to share from my Tutsi Jewish background, in terms of Timeline, World History, Kush-Jewish Theology, Egyptology,timeline Geopolitics of Jewish Kush, etc...

7) I notice that sometime on April 22, 2009; #138; p.7, our friend KIKUYUGUY had to deal with the same issues we are dealing with, as it says below:

"Princess i think something is missing in your explanation . I agree with you that tutsi people speak bantu language but it's not a pure bantu language it's a combination of bantu and some midlle east language . Let me give you some example the word SHEMA means the same in HEBREW and TUTSI bantu language . The word BIN or BEN or BENE is not bantu . The tutsi culture is not at all bantu ; tutsi people respect KOSHER FOOD that means they cannot mix meat and diary product the same diet is found among JEWS . Tutsi means those who came from somewhere . We don't know where . Dear princess we know that Somali Bantu are SOMALI they speak Somali and don't know any single bantu language word ; do you have the same ancestry ? We acha maringo ."
(6)Can you Educate us your oral history? I'm interested.

You said some where that the term tutsi means hebrew(?) Yet you have just clarified it in the quote above. It makes sense that the term tutsi means "those who came". In that case it is not semetic because it is similar to the luganda word for they came, "Ba-tuse". Batuse means they came or have come. It makes sense. It is no foreign word. LOL! I did not know you have bin in Kirundi. I know swahili has bin, Like in "binadamu"

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Feb 2, 2012

@BANTU Limited:

" the term tutsi means "those who came". In that case it is not semetic because it is similar to the luganda word for they came, "Ba-tuse". Batuse means they came or have come".

You're confirming what I'm saying. Thank you for the input. Things are not so simple. The answer is concealed in the shape of the "BTA" [Biblical Triangle of Africa]. I can't say more right now.

QueenBijoux of United States on Feb 2, 2012

People in my country ususally all get along such as tribes but except for the manlkes and fulanis whenever they have an disagreement about something the manlkes would tell the fulani to go back to somalia . All I know is that nothing has been confirmed about the orgins of the fulas and tutsis so people just drop it and let go

Nambooze of Uganda on Feb 3, 2012

Drabbo wrote:
<quoted text>Ok Ms Class monitor ! What is so abusive about pointing out a well known public view in Uganda :- you should question why society particularly in Uganda holds it - and yes society tends to generalize. Its not necessarily true and its not even my point of view . The point I was making to our 'Tutsi-Jew' friend is that intermarriage between Tusti and non Tutsi populations is just so prevalent in east africa-- I dont even find it worthy of debate.
Your allegation was an abuse, because it is untrue. The tutsi women are indeed one of the most beautiful and men are always astonished at their beauty, that is the fact. Yoou always run after them but it is well known that they will never produce children for a bantu man. That is the fact here. These peoples origin has always baffled people because they definately behave and LOOK different. That is why we are discussing them here and not discussing Baganda or Sudanese. They are a mystery and a point of interest. The features of these people are very alien to the surrounding populations. And by the way, in that DNA chart that places the tutsi as very close to Bantu is flawed. Check out the Hima figures and you will see a huge relation with the somali figures and yet HIMA and TUTSI to us here and to them are one and the same.

It is also not true that there are intermarriages. Men have always been duped when ever they try to produce children with the tutsi women. Tutsi only produce among themselves and I know you know it.

Bantu limited of Eskilstuna, Sweden on Feb 3, 2012

Nambooze wrote:
<quoted text>Your allegation was an abuse, because it is untrue. The tutsi women are indeed one of the most beautiful and men are always astonished at their beauty, that is the fact. Yoou always run after them but it is well known that they will never produce children for a bantu man. That is the fact here. These peoples origin has always baffled people because they definately behave and LOOK different. That is why we are discussing them here and not discussing Baganda or Sudanese. They are a mystery and a point of interest. The features of these people are very alien to the surrounding populations. And by the way, in that DNA chart that places the tutsi as very close to Bantu is flawed. Check out the Hima figures and you will see a huge relation with the somali figures and yet HIMA and TUTSI to us here and to them are one and the same.
It is also not true that there are intermarriages. Men have always been duped when ever they try to produce children with the tutsi women. Tutsi only produce among themselves and I know you know it.
You talk alot of nonsense. Are you Muganda? My two brothers have children with Tutsi/Bahima women. One of my brothers is married to one. He is way older than her. They have two daughters. My mom was against the union so was I. I would have preferred they married from our own people.

kikuyuguy of nairobi on Feb 3, 2012


All along I've waited for someone to bring up the issue of how Tutsi women increase their numbers by a deliberate strategy of cuckolding,especially when married to Hutus! Thanks Nambooze. In fact it is said even Joseph Kabila isn't really of his late dad!! Apparently a Tanzanian Tutsi man in 2000 or early 2001 spilled the beans in an interview about how he was 'seeing' cough!/cough! his
Tutsi mum to purposely impregnate her.Many Hutu husbands have discovered this the hard way;one of the many reasons they will never be friends.
Why I have no truck with this superior Caucasian Jewish/Tutsi bs is that I've seen quite a few who resemble relatives; there's nothing special in their looks!I myself was mistaken by a Muhima girl for her dead brother. As I showed in the previous 2 pages the same 700 year old migration from Axum that reached Rwanda left quite a number of Ethiopian types around Mt.Kenya; in fact Kikuyu and Kinyarwanda share cognitives,though IMO Runyankole is closer. We also had the same Mosaic dietary rules.
My beef is his insistence on racial exclusivity based on non existent mythical jewish connections.

Bantu limited of Eskilstuna, Sweden on Feb 3, 2012

kikuyuguy wrote:
All along I've waited for someone to bring up the issue of how Tutsi women increase their numbers by a deliberate strategy of cuckolding,especially when married to Hutus! Thanks Nambooze. In fact it is said even Joseph Kabila isn't really of his late dad!! Apparently a Tanzanian Tutsi man in 2000 or early 2001 spilled the beans in an interview about how he was 'seeing' cough!/cough! his
Tutsi mum to purposely impregnate her.Many Hutu husbands have discovered this the hard way;one of the many reasons they will never be friends.
Why I have no truck with this superior Caucasian Jewish/Tutsi bs is that I've seen quite a few who resemble relatives; there's nothing special in their looks!I myself was mistaken by a Muhima girl for her dead brother. As I showed in the previous 2 pages the same 700 year old migration from Axum that reached Rwanda left quite a number of Ethiopian types around Mt.Kenya; in fact Kikuyu and Kinyarwanda share cognitives,though IMO Runyankole is closer. We also had the same Mosaic dietary rules.
My beef is his insistence on racial exclusivity based on non existent mythical jewish connections.
We have a problem here. Kikuyu are not homogenous. Kikuyus have absorbed more non-bantu than any other bantu tribe. You have the masai who were adopted by the kikuyu culture (not to forget intermarriage between them), Cushetic, the mixed race people british, asian and arabs.

Did you say kikuyus were jewish too. lol!E

Bantu limited of Eskilstuna, Sweden on Feb 3, 2012

kikuyuguy wrote:
All along I've waited for someone to bring up the issue of how Tutsi women increase their numbers by a deliberate strategy of cuckolding,especially when married to Hutus! Thanks Nambooze. In fact it is said even Joseph Kabila isn't really of his late dad!! Apparently a Tanzanian Tutsi man in 2000 or early 2001 spilled the beans in an interview about how he was 'seeing' cough!/cough! his
Tutsi mum to purposely impregnate her.Many Hutu husbands have discovered this the hard way;one of the many reasons they will never be friends.
Why I have no truck with this superior Caucasian Jewish/Tutsi bs is that I've seen quite a few who resemble relatives; there's nothing special in their looks!I myself was mistaken by a Muhima girl for her dead brother. As I showed in the previous 2 pages the same 700 year old migration from Axum that reached Rwanda left quite a number of Ethiopian types around Mt.Kenya; in fact Kikuyu and Kinyarwanda share cognitives,though IMO Runyankole is closer. We also had the same Mosaic dietary rules.
My beef is his insistence on racial exclusivity based on non existent mythical jewish connections.
If I remember correctly Joseph Kabila ia an adopted son of Laurent Kabila. Not biological. i do not Joseph kabila looks tutsi. He could be mixed with tutsi though.
http://www.topnews.in/files/Joseph-Kabila.jpg

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Feb 3, 2012

@BANTU Limited & KIKUYUGUY:
"We have a problem here. Kikuyu are not homogenous...."

1- We really have a problem here ! The MASAI we know are a branch of the african Hebrew mainstream. We know each other, we love each other, and we have all the time been recommended by our forefathers that Tutsi youngsters can marry Masai women and Masai youndsters can marry Tutsi women, after a farmal approval by the religious authorities (Beit Din). Nothing similar was ever said about the KIKUYU.
2- As "Bantu Limited" puts it, it looks like the KIKUYUS have the same problem as the HUTU we know in terms of homogeneity and mind shape (please correct me if I'm wrong). The Hutus don't know each other, they hate each other, they even kill each other when there is no Tutsi around to vent their frustration on (Burundi today is an experiment field for such brutal inner behavior). The reason is that they are the scattered survivors of the slavery trade of the Atlantic Coast, who found themselves refugees in the Jewish Kingdoms of South Kush powerfully set up by the Tutsi Jews since the time of Moses up to the the King Solomon & Queen of Sheba's Commonwealth.
3- A guy which original village was burned to dust in the Guinea Gulf area, who meats in Rwanda another guy from the mouth of the Congo River, victim of the same brutality from the slave traders's gangs, could hardly find a common ground in terms of culture or common feelings, except the common situation of refugees happy enough lucky to be alive under safe protection, and then dealing with the integration process that everybody can easily imagine :
learning the language of the host nation, mastering the laws of the nation, setting up a strategy to address the every day needs, finding a wife or a husband (hard issue in a context of the strictly endogamic pastoralist society of the Jewish commonwealth of Great Lakes and East Africa, etc.)
4- The same historical standard pertain to the FULANIS and PEULS + the TOUAREGS & the TOUBOUS, who are our proud branch settled in the West African Jewish Commonwealth. All these groups are scattered Jews, later converted to Islam by the Jihadist arabs (just like some Tutsi were taken in the waves of the violent Inquisition implemented by the Fighting Monks called White Fathers...).
5- One thing again: there is no way the Masai could be the "benefactors" of the KIKUYU culture; the Masai are acknowledged as the owners of the land in Kenya, not the other way round. They were targetted by the British colonizers who needed their land and could not find any other way to have access to it but confiscating the land part of which they later redistributed to the KIKUYUS.
6- The Fighting Monks (=of the Catholic Church) did the same to the Tutsi Jews, owners of the land in Rwanda, Burundi, East Congo, West Tanzania. They confiscated the land under diverse guises, and redistributed large part of it to their Hutu catholic clients. The issue is being raised once again, right now in Burundi. A "National Commission for Land" is supposed to be at work, but has been taken over by the Church. A Hutu Bishop has been appointed as President of the Commission, with the update the accomplished fact of the 1930s (called the "VOISIN LAWS").
What I mean is that things are not so simple when african highly educated leaders decide to confront the aftermath of the 4 catastrophes that befell African groups in various ways:
-the slavery trade,
-the islamic Jihad,
-the catholic Crusades & Inquisition,
-the Colonial brutality.
7- THE EXTERMINATION OF THE AGRO-PASTORALIST JEWISH NATIONS OF AFRICA (hidden under the confusing qualification of "Inter-Ethnic violence") IS ROOTED IN THE COMBINATION OF THE WAVES STEMMING FROM THE 4 INTERTWISTED PHENOMENONS. I have in mind the cases of the Tutsi (1959 syndrome), the Peuls (Sekou Toure Syndrome) and the Masai (a subtile Genocide Pattern was applied here, sometimes similar to the one applied against the native Americans).

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Feb 3, 2012

@BANTU Limited & KIKUYUGUY:
"We have a problem here. Kikuyu are not homogenous...."

1- We really have a problem here ! The MASAI we know are a branch of the african Hebrew mainstream. We know each other, we love each other, and we have all the time been recommended by our forefathers that Tutsi youngsters can marry Masai women and Masai youndsters can marry Tutsi women, after a farmal approval by the family watch- crews and the religious authorities (Beit Din). Nothing similar was ever said about the KIKUYU.
2- As "Bantu Limited" puts it, it looks like the KIKUYUS have the same problem as the HUTU we know in terms of homogeneity and mind shape (please correct me if I'm wrong). The Hutus don't know each other, they hate each other, they even kill each other when there is no Tutsi around to vent their frustration on (Burundi today is an experiment field for such brutal inner behavior). The reason is that they are the scattered survivors of the slavery trade of the Atlantic Coast, who found themselves refugees in the Jewish Kingdoms of South Kush powerfully set up by the Tutsi Jews since the time of Moses up to the the King Solomon & Queen of Sheba's Commonwealth.
3- A guy which original village was burned to dust in the Guinea Gulf area, who meats in Rwanda another guy from the mouth of the Congo River, victim of the same brutality from the slave traders's gangs, could hardly find a common ground in terms of culture or common feelings, except the common situation of refugees happy enough lucky to be alive under safe protection, and then dealing with the integration process that everybody can easily imagine :
learning the language of the host nation, mastering the laws of the nation, setting up a strategy to address the every day needs, finding a wife or a husband (hard issue in a context of the strictly endogamic pastoralist society of the Jewish commonwealth of Great Lakes and East Africa, etc.)
4- The same historical standard pertain to the FULANIS and PEULS + the TOUAREGS & the TOUBOUS, who are our proud branch settled in the West African Jewish Commonwealth. All these groups are scattered Jews, later converted to Islam by the Jihadist arabs (just like some Tutsi were taken in the waves of the violent Inquisition implemented by the Fighting Monks called White Fathers...).
5- One thing again: there is no way the Masai could be the "benefactors" of the KIKUYU culture; the Masai are acknowledged as the owners of the land in Kenya, not the other way round. They were targetted by the British colonizers who needed their land and could not find any other way to have access to it but confiscating the land part of which they later redistributed to the KIKUYUS.
6- The Fighting Monks (=of the Catholic Church) did the same to the Tutsi Jews, owners of the land in Rwanda, Burundi, East Congo, West Tanzania. They confiscated the land under diverse guises, and redistributed large part of it to their Hutu catholic clients. The issue is being raised once again, right now in Burundi.
7- What I mean is that things are not so simple when african highly educated leaders decide to confront the aftermath of the 4 catastrophes that befell African groups in various ways:
-the slavery trade,
-the islamic Jihad,
-the catholic Crusades & Inquisition,
-the Colonial brutality.

Nambooze of Uganda on Feb 3, 2012

Bantu limited wrote:
<quoted text>
You talk alot of nonsense. Are you Muganda? My two brothers have children with Tutsi/Bahima women. One of my brothers is married to one. He is way older than her. They have two daughters. My mom was against the union so was I. I would have preferred they married from our own people.
Bantu LIMITED, unfortunately it is you who is LIMITED on tutsi facts. It is a fact and you know it that the people here have run after Tutsi girls and they have often hit hard walls just like your brother did or will if what you say is true that he tried to get a tutsi girl. They have told you that if you insist the children wont be yours and you will burst your head over that. Bantu marrying a tutsi is often just a BUBBLE.
Being or not being a muganda is a irrelevant here. The topic is about the origin of the Tutsi. The question is how did these mysterious people reach here. Where did they come from? And the answers are becoming clear. I believe to a very large extent in what Yeboyeboy is saying.

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Feb 3, 2012

@NAMBOOZE:

"It is also not true that there are intermarriages. Men have always been duped when ever they try to produce children with the tutsi women. Tutsi only produce among themselves and I know you know it."

Thank you, Brother NAMBOOZE, for being so clear on so critical an issue as intermarriage in the Tutsi Jewish comonwealth. There is no way a Tutsi 'ordinary'(free) man could marry a non-tutsi woman. There is no way a Tutsi 'ordinary'(free) woman could marry a non-tutsi man. Absolutely no way. These people don't know how hard it is, even for a Tutsi man that we are, to have access to the Tutsi woman of your desire. Extremely complicated. We are subjected to a whole range of interminggled strategies involving friends, family crews, religious rules (close check up are made about the blood and 'magnetic' compatibility of families in the long term history), and at the final level, the accreditation of the elders of both families. Before the colonial era, a young Tutsi wasn't even entitled to express an opinion on the choice of his future wife. The pact was set up without his personnal consent.

2- I assume the "intermarriage" cases with non-tutsi that they are refering to are the result of 2 kinds of paranormal situations:

- Kidnapped Tutsi women (as it happened by the colonial era....I was told myself about our beloved aunt who has been kidnapped very young by the congolese troops (Force Publique) in the 1950s and who has disappeared since then... These women were forcilbly married to Hutu catechists and militias leaders in order to empower them (we have some interesting case like that in Burundi... and also in Rwanda with the Tutsi population which escaped deportation in 1959 and where Tutsi women were regularly sexually assaulted by the ruling hutu predators)

- The Tutsi progeny of convicted Tutsi who were exiled and had no choice but intermingling with the non-tutsi population they resettled in. These cases are very uncommon since a convicted Tutsi knew where to resettle in a Tutsi area. The case of the population of the "Ijwi Island" where the Bahavu dwell is related to these cases.

-Some historical mistakes occured also sometimes, especially the one we know under the rule of King Rwabugiri, when he waged a fierce war in the Northern part of Rwanda (currently South Uganda)with an army of non-Tutsi guys who were left without control and instinctivley assaulted some Tutsi women in the area. So, we have exceptional situations most of the time resulting from temporaly subjuction or badly designed wars. The strategies of reproduction you point out are a response to such kinds of politico-social malfunction. There are some others. Some non-tutsi friends of mine told me that they know very well the fact. This might be the explanation to the rejection that "Bantu Limited" family expressed towards what they consider a Tutsi 'interloper' woman.

We have there an exception which confirms the rule we are disclosing !The rule in Hebrew in called "TAHARIT HAMISHPACHAH"

kikuyuguy of nairobi on Feb 3, 2012

Bantu limited wrote:
<quoted text>
We have a problem here. Kikuyu are not homogenous. Kikuyus have absorbed more non-bantu than any other bantu tribe. You have the masai who were adopted by the kikuyu culture (not to forget intermarriage between them), Cushetic, the mixed race people british, asian and arabs.
Did you say kikuyus were jewish too. lol!E
Me!? Hell no! I said the dietary laws;same with Nilo Kushites. Anyway I'm done with this shit. It was amusing at first, but this guys game has now been revealed. Myths ,legends and utter bullshit supporting a facade of mythical Tutsi supereriority of bantus. There are more intersting things to do-lucky for me!

kikuyuguy of nairobi on Feb 3, 2012

Edit:mythical Tutsi superiority Over bantus

Bantu limited of Eskilstuna, Sweden on Feb 3, 2012

Nambooze wrote:
<quoted text>Bantu LIMITED, unfortunately it is you who is LIMITED on tutsi facts. It is a fact and you know it that the people here have run after Tutsi girls and they have often hit hard walls just like your brother did or will if what you say is true that he tried to get a tutsi girl. They have told you that if you insist the children wont be yours and you will burst your head over that. Bantu marrying a tutsi is often just a BUBBLE.
Being or not being a muganda is a irrelevant here. The topic is about the origin of the Tutsi. The question is how did these mysterious people reach here. Where did they come from? And the answers are becoming clear. I believe to a very large extent in what Yeboyeboy is saying.
I think tutsi /bahima grew big heads when museveni came to power. But one thing is for sure my elder brother actually dump the woman when she got pregnant the second time, this the truth. I have two nieces who look like their father. He is married to a woman from mý the east now. My other brother two has two daughter. They are his children because they look like him. How can you mistake a child of two tutsies for a bantu child. LOL! We know that tutsi women often go for non-tutsi who have money. I do not know who is running after bahima/ tutsi women they days. Anyways I've not been to in Uganda and stayed in a long time. There is nothing special about you people. I had my share ofsexual encounters with hima women. Nothing to write home about.

By the way something has happened the tutsi of the old seem to be diaspearing. The tutsi, female, who used to have huge hip, massive legs, lonbg necks and tiny heads. I don't see them no more. LOL! Today people who claim to be tutsi /bahima are do not fit that mold.

Yeboyeboh of Takoma Park, MD on Feb 3, 2012

@KIKUYUGUY:

"mythical Tutsi superiority Over bantus"

I'm glad you raise this fabricated issue, that has long stand as the most criminal african version of the European "Protocols of Zion".

There is no mythical Tutsi superiority over a non-existent Bantu entity. As I demostrated before (and most of oy agreed with me), the BANTU concept is a abstract category, not a material fact. There has never been any BANTU population anywhere in Africa. Only families, tribes, and runaways slaves. That is science !

So, there can't be anywhere in Africa a beginning of claim of superiority from any Tutsi Jewish nation over any non-existent entity (so-called BANTU).

Tuts scholars of modern post-modern era are ready to confront each of these "African Protocols of Zion" using science and carefully documented facts. The stigmatization game which resulted in large scale extermination of Tutsi Jews by proxy-gangs (called HUTU in the Great lakes...BANTU elsewhere)has been unveiled since a while !