King's legacy still cause of debate

Jan 19, 2014 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: USA Today

It is a large legacy that looms over the past five decades, from the prophetic "I Have a Dream" speech delivered during the March on Washington to his last campaign taking a stand for underpaid black sanitation workers in Memphis, the city where he was slain.

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Insect Trust wrote:
The work of Dr. King is being continued by people like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders who fight to bring the country back to its senses and be concerned with THE PEOPLE rather than only the 1%.
And the work of the devil is being continued by Abdul and this little pack of white racist rightwing nutcases who sit on the sidelines name-calling anyone who cares about humanity.
He, he, he. Ha, ha, ha. You make me laugh. Gee you have such a sophisticated and high sense of humor. I needed a laugh this early in the morning, especially when I have not slept in 2 days.

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Savant wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, King called for a radical redistribution fo political and economic power from the haves to the have nots. He wa right and reactionaries like you and your right wing and racist co-workers are wrong.
Am I wrong to say that we need scientific socialism as opposed to sentamantal or romantic socialism or some weird cultural socialism/

When I say scientific socialism, I mean a socialism that is based on hard cold scientific reality. It is a reality that if we do not work, we do not eat. Somebody has to plant the seeds, care for and weed the crop and harvest the fruit. And when all the fails to produce sufficiently to feed everybody, new technology and new methods of production are in order.

Right now, Africa imports nearly 50% of the food our people eat. That means there is a shortage in food production. It is a scientific reality that if we harvest the water that is just below the surface in the Sahara Desert ( http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-1... ) This is what H .E. Brother Muamar Qaddafi did ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man-Made_R... ) What Qaddafi did is the correct example. But it was only one small step in the right direction. What Qaddafi did is scientific socialism.

Also, what H.E. Comrade Gamal abd al-Nasir did was scientific socialism. He built to Aswan Dam Project in order to increase food production in Egypt.

Osagyefo Dr, Kwame Nkrumah did similarly. He built the Volta River Dam Project to increase food production and energy production.

The one common denominator in all of the projects I just mentioned is centralized planning. In other words, we must have a PLANNED economy. That is crucial to socialism and it is crucial to economic efficiency and increased production.

So what we have is a choice between begging the white man for crumbs off his table and increasing production by creating new wealth. Shall we give a man a fish so he can eat one day? Or shall we show a man how to fish so that he can eat forever"? Which is scientific and which is abstract foolishness based on wishful thing? It is wishful thinking if we expect the white man to solve our economic problems for us. We have to solve our own economic problems.

Continued below...

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Continued from above...
Savant wrote:
<quoted text> The current distibution of wealth is founded upon imperialist exploitation, slavery and racism. An "Nkrumahist" ought to know this. We I, King of Fanon calll for a redistribution--not mere "sharing" as Obama calls it--we're not "begging the white man" for crumbs. We're calling for a REVOLUTIONARY transformation of the social order. Since most whites ae actually have nots--and can see this when not blindedd by racism and other forms of false consciousness--they too can choose if they wish to join us in the restoration of justice in a human community. Only a hand ful of them were shaveholders even if a majority in the South were duped into supporting the tyrannnical slaveholding elite. Only a handful of them belong to the 1% of the corporate oligarchy. Those who have any sens will join us in the fight to end tyrannical oligarchic rule and establish a REAL democracy.
That may be fine in abstract political theory. I do not want to debate anything abstract. And, I have shown you in considerable detail how to create new wealth. The new wealth that we are presently creating far exceed anything the white Europeans could ever do for us. Africa is far richer than Europe and Asia combined. So, even if the whites were all nice guys and gullible and altruistic enough to just give, give and give to us, it would amount to less that what we can do for our own selves. We can grow enough food in the Sahara Desert to feed all of humanity. All we need to do is stop begging long enough to get together, pool our own resources and deliver the water that is below the surface to above surface so that it can be used to irrigate craps. That is the Economic Plan that I have devised. And I know that in order to make it work, we must educate and train our young people to be engineers and administrators, and mangers and planners. That is scientific socialism.

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Savant wrote:
<quoted text>Oh lord. Assdurratin is too BLIND to see the light. But fortunately most of my students have open minds capable of learning.
Have you ever studied business administration and management? There is nothing wrong with doing so. We need those type skills. But too many of our kids are not developing those type skills.

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Savant wrote:
<quoted text>Rev. Barber and the "Moral Mondays" movement are operating in that tradition.
Even in his first book STRIDE TOWARD FREEDOM (1958) King informs us that at an early age "I had learned the inseparable twin of racial injustice was economic injustice. Although I came from a home of relative economic security and relative comfort, I could never get out of my mind the economic insecurity of many of my playmates and the tragic poverty of those living around me. During my late teens I worked two summers...in a plant that hired both Negroes and whites. Here I saw economic injustice firsthand, and realized that the POOR white was EXPLOITED as much as the Negro. Through these early experiences I grew up deeply conscious of the varieties of injustice in our society." (p. 90).
Notice that Dr. King already sees an intimate and inseparable connection between ECONOMIC EXPLOITATION (economic injustice) and RACIAL OPPRESSION. It's not an either or/or nor does he simply reduce one to the other. But racial and economic injustices are so intertwined that you cannot effective end one without ending the other. This theme becomes even more pronounced in King's public thinking (rather than just private or unspoken convictions) after Selma. And in his book WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE, CHAOS OR COMMUNITY. I've actually shared some of my research on this with you as well as Harrisson, Attai, Soulbrother, Ekdesiladki and a few others.
Yes. And what I've learned in studying sociocultural history and change confirms Dr. King's perspective. It is all simply exploitation and oppression. The more we analyze capitalism in its modern sense we see it rooted in feudalism, which is predicated upon the power of the few and their right to abuse the many.

Racism is one of many tools they can use.“Race” itself as a concept was invented by post-Medieval Eurocolonialists as a means of rationalizing their exploitative abuse of non-European peoples. Naturally this is absurd on the face of it as they're simultaneously abusing plenty of Europeans... but naturally their enforced logic and culture is full of contradictions, as it, AT ITS ROOT, entails the oppression and exploitation of people.

I've studied Marx and while acknowledging his valuable contributions to social analysis, in the end his explanation (including fixed predetermined stages of social evolution) is flawed, and his praxis dangerous (e.g., Stalinism).

Dr. King ends up with a more cogent analysis really, though he does concentrate more on ethics and philosophy than economy and society, per se.

To the anarchist-inclined such as me, the gravest error of Marx is in dismissing ethnic culture as anachronistic, claiming that it had become irrelevant once capitalism subsumed the social relations and structure of a people. All that mattered now was the culture of revolution to create the final, communist, stage. The result of this is Russian suppression of non-Russian languages, and the same in China regarding Han culture and Chinese language. If the revolution is being directed by speakers of Russian/Chinese, then other languages are impediments to revolution. And that includes the non-Russian/Han cultures that accompany the languages.

That is the sort of Marxian error which is not implicit or potential in the thought of Dr. King, due, I think, to the importance King accords human dignity.

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Abdurratln wrote:
Continued from above...
<quoted text>
That may be fine in abstract political theory. I do not want to debate anything abstract. And, I have shown you in considerable detail how to create new wealth. The new wealth that we are presently creating far exceed anything the white Europeans could ever do for us. Africa is far richer than Europe and Asia combined. So, even if the whites were all nice guys and gullible and altruistic enough to just give, give and give to us, it would amount to less that what we can do for our own selves. We can grow enough food in the Sahara Desert to feed all of humanity. All we need to do is stop begging long enough to get together, pool our own resources and deliver the water that is below the surface to above surface so that it can be used to irrigate craps. That is the Economic Plan that I have devised. And I know that in order to make it work, we must educate and train our young people to be engineers and administrators, and mangers and planners. That is scientific socialism.
But, asswad, you ignore even what Nkrumah said about the role of the colonialists in manipulating developed of infrastructure -(among other things) in the colonies, specifically in Ghana, and so just how do you expect any of the governments ruling over Saharan territory to accomplish any of that?

The Garamantes solution. Of course it is an obvious route for sane development, that is true. The only person attempting a water project similar to that was Gadoofy and he was an intolerable sociopath. So... that leaves it where? You and your cult of faux-Nkrumist Moslem nutballs are going to do what?

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Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>
But, asswad, you ignore even what Nkrumah said about the role of the colonialists in manipulating developed of infrastructure -(among other things) in the colonies, specifically in Ghana, and so just how do you expect any of the governments ruling over Saharan territory to accomplish any of that?
Qaddafi's government obviously did it. But ultimately All-Africa must unite in order to do it in the most efficient manner
Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>The Garamantes solution. Of course it is an obvious route for sane development, that is true. The only person attempting a water project similar to that was Gadoofy and he was an intolerable sociopath. So... that leaves it where? You and your cult of faux-Nkrumist Moslem nutballs are going to do what?
We are going to grow trees and many other plants in the Sahara Desert.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

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#979
Jun 13, 2014
 
Timothy wrote:
<quoted text>
Many months ago, you have advised me to buy the book "In a Single Garment of Destiny: A Global Vision of Justice."
I brought and the book is an excellent book. It shows a collection of Dr. Martin Luther King's speeches that deals with race, class, apartheid, and other relevant issues that even relate to our time in the early 21st century. The foreword written by Charlayne Hunter-Gault was a beautiful display of prose. She is a great writer too. I can feel her words. Also, the book shows that Dr. King was heavily concerned with Africa and African politics back in the 1950's. Obviously, we should learn about the heroic actions and views of Kwame Nkrumah and others as a means to establish real solutions that will benefit black people and the rest of the human family.
Also, economic justice and racial justice are interrelated, because we can never free as a people unless economic injustice is abolished. The corporate oligarchy of the 1% has done financial crimes against people worldwide and the people have the right to speak up about it. Even the bourgeoisie (among many colors) have exploited the poor, workings, and other oppressed human beings.
The struggle continues, but we will continue to fight for our rightful liberation.
Oh yes. The legacy of King involves so much more than the eloquent "I have a Dream speech", and he was much more of a socia radical than we would ever guess from those sanitized celbrations on MLK Day. King even sympathized with revolutions which did not follow a nonviolent path. At least he sympathixed with OBJECTIVES of third world and poor peoples revolutonary movements even when he didn't agree with their methods. He corresponded with Ben Bella, Nkumah and CLR james even when he disagreed with them. He was a revolutionary Christian.

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Savant wrote:
<quoted text> Oh yes. The legacy of King involves so much more than the eloquent "I have a Dream speech", and he was much more of a socia radical than we would ever guess from those sanitized celbrations on MLK Day. King even sympathized with revolutions which did not follow a nonviolent path. At least he sympathixed with OBJECTIVES of third world and poor peoples revolutonary movements even when he didn't agree with their methods. He corresponded with Ben Bella, Nkumah and CLR james even when he disagreed with them. He was a revolutionary Christian.
Stopi it, you cowardly idiot. MLK NEVER, NEVER, ever voiced any disagreements with Oasgyefo Dr. Kwmae Nkrumah, Father of the African Revolution of which MLK was a small part. That would be irrational and not logical. Osagefo was about the Liberation of the Entire African Nation. How could MLK who wanted Civil Rights and Human Rights for the Africans here in America disgagree with any of that? You are lying agian and as usuall making no sense at all. Clown.

Now, I might agree that MLK was not exactlty an expert in African economics. He had the right idea in terms of making things better for us in this country. But he never voiced a clear path to achieve that. Instead, he posed a question: Where do We go from Here? Therefore, due to the fact that MLK died early, it is incumbent upon suceeding generations to pick up where he left off and carry the baton to the next step, the next level. Thus, while MLK devoted his life primarily to theological matters, for example, he studied along that line in college, it is our duty to acquire all other sciences that we need to go to the next step. In particular, we must learn business and economics. Comrade D. Kwame Ture said Black Power. I do not think MLK ever fully understand the concept. Most of us did not fuly understand it. But we all knew that we needed power to solve the problems of Africans in this country. Many thought political power and left it at that. People like Mernard Jackson thought in terrms of "affirmative action". Okay. Cool. But ther question remains: Where do We go from Here?

I learned early to think in terms of politcal economy. In my mind, electing perverts like Obama to office is merely a small and minor step that does not even come close to the acquistion of any real Black Power. To the political aspect must be added the economic question. As I said above, the answer to the economic question lies in scientific socialism. But a fool like you has already voiced opposition my own economic theories.

Osagyefo has correctly poitned out that colective and communal principles apply to scientific socialism. Therefore, to build the Great Man Made River is a collective effort best determined by the people's government and politiccal parties. Taking that a step further, All-African governments and states have a stake in the reclamation of the Sahara Desert. Therefore, all of the states and governments must represent the African peoples and Nation in investing in Sahara Desert reclamation and development.

In the USA, we must form various coops. These coops must pool resources and invest in various African projects such as the Reclamation of the Sahara Desert. As these projects make profits, these profits will be shared with the A frican investors in the USA and throughout the African world in Latin America, Caribbean and Europe.

Perhaps in the early stages of such reclamation projects, we will start on a very small scale. Certainly, we cannot reclaim the entire Sahara overnight. But, we have a Black Power Farm Project in Zimbabwe. I have invested in it. Anybody can send a money order or check to P.O. Box 123, Gweru, Zimbbawe. That money will be used for such essential things as digging waterholes to supply irrigation water to our farms. This is a mini, mini micro-example of what must be done all over the African continent. And when we do such things, we benefit Africans all over the world.

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Savant wrote:
<quoted text> Oh yes. The legacy of King involves so much more than the eloquent "I have a Dream speech", and he was much more of a socia radical than we would ever guess from those sanitized celbrations on MLK Day. King even sympathized with revolutions which did not follow a nonviolent path. At least he sympathixed with OBJECTIVES of third world and poor peoples revolutonary movements even when he didn't agree with their methods. He corresponded with Ben Bella, Nkumah and CLR james even when he disagreed with them. He was a revolutionary Christian.
Stopi it, you cowardly idiot. MLK NEVER, NEVER, ever voiced any disagreements with Oasgyefo Dr. Kwmae Nkrumah, Father of the African Revolution of which MLK was a small part. That would be irrational and not logical. Osagefo was about the Liberation of the Entire African Nation. How could MLK who wanted Civil Rights and Human Rights for the Africans here in America disgagree with any of that? You are lying agian and as usuall making no sense at all. Clown.

Now, I might agree that MLK was not exactlty an expert in African economics. He had the right idea in terms of making things better for us in this country. But he never voiced a clear path to achieve that. Instead, he posed a question: Where do We go from Here? Therefore, due to the fact that MLK died early, it is incumbent upon suceeding generations to pick up where he left off and carry the baton to the next step, the next level. Thus, while MLK devoted his life primarily to theological matters, for example, he studied along that line in college, it is our duty to acquire all other sciences that we need to go to the next step. In particular, we must learn business and economics. Comrade D. Kwame Ture said Black Power. I do not think MLK ever fully understand the concept. Most of us did not fuly understand it. But we all knew that we needed power to solve the problems of Africans in this country. Many thought political power and left it at that. People like Mernard Jackson thought in terrms of "affirmative action". Okay. Cool. But ther question remains: Where do We go from Here?

I learned early to think in terms of politcal economy. In my mind, electing perverts like Obama to office is merely a small and minor step that does not even come close to the acquistion of any real Black Power. To the political aspect must be added the economic question. As I said above, the answer to the economic question lies in scientific socialism. But a fool like you has already voiced opposition my own economic theories.

Osagyefo has correctly poitned out that colective and communal principles apply to scientific socialism. Therefore, to build the Great Man Made River is a collective effort best determined by the people's government and politiccal parties. Taking that a step further, All-African governments and states have a stake in the reclamation of the Sahara Desert. Therefore, all of the states and governments must represent the African peoples and Nation in investing in Sahara Desert reclamation and development.

In the USA, we must form various coops. These coops must pool resources and invest in various African projects such as the Reclamation of the Sahara Desert. As these projects make profits, these profits will be shared with the A frican investors in the USA and .throughout the African world in Latin America, Caribbean and Europe..

Perhaps in the early stages of such reclamation projects, we will start on a very small scale. Certainly, we cannot reclaim the entire Sahara overnight. But, we have a Black Power Farm Project in Zimbabwe. I have invested in it. Anybody can send a money order or check to P.O. Box 123, Gweru, Zimbbawe. That money will be used for such essential things as digging waterholes to supply irrigation water to our farms. This is a mini, mini micro-example of what must be done all over the African continent. And when we do such things, we benefit Africans all over the world.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

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Abdurratln wrote:
<quoted text>
Stopi it, you cowardly idiot. MLK NEVER, NEVER, ever voiced any disagreements with Oasgyefo Dr. Kwmae Nkrumah, Father of the African Revolution of which MLK was a small part. That would be irrational and not logical. Osagefo was about the Liberation of the Entire African Nation. How could MLK who wanted Civil Rights and Human Rights for the Africans here in America disgagree with any of that? You are lying agian and as usuall making no sense at all. Clown.
Now, I might agree that MLK was not exactlty an expert in African economics. He had the right idea in terms of making things better for us in this country. But he never voiced a clear path to achieve that. Instead, he posed a question: Where do We go from Here? Therefore, due to the fact that MLK died early, it is incumbent upon suceeding generations to pick up where he left off and carry the baton to the next step, the next level. Thus, while MLK devoted his life primarily to theological matters, for example, he studied along that line in college, it is our duty to acquire all other sciences that we need to go to the next step. In particular, we must learn business and economics. Comrade D. Kwame Ture said Black Power. I do not think MLK ever fully understand the concept. Most of us did not fuly understand it. But we all knew that we needed power to solve the problems of Africans in this country. Many thought political power and left it at that. People like Mernard Jackson thought in terrms of "affirmative action". Okay. Cool. But ther question remains: Where do We go from Here?
I learned early to think in terms of politcal economy. In my mind, electing perverts like Obama to office is merely a small and minor step that does not even come close to the acquistion of any real Black Power. To the political aspect must be added the economic question. As I said above, the answer to the economic question lies in scientific socialism. But a fool like you has already voiced opposition my own economic theories.
Osagyefo has correctly poitned out that colective and communal principles apply to scientific socialism. Therefore, to build the Great Man Made River is a collective effort best determined by the people's government and politiccal parties. Taking that a step further, All-African governments and states have a stake in the reclamation of the Sahara Desert. Therefore, all of the states and governments must represent the African peoples and Nation in investing in Sahara Desert reclamation and development.
In the USA, we must form various coops. These coops must pool resources and invest in various African projects such as the Reclamation of the Sahara Desert. As these projects make profits, these profits will be shared with the A frican investors in the USA and .throughout the African world in Latin America, Caribbean and Europe..
Perhaps in the early stages of such reclamation projects, we will start on a very small scale. Certainly, we cannot reclaim the entire Sahara overnight. But, we have a Black Power Farm Project in Zimbabwe. I have invested in it. Anybody can send a money order or check to P.O. Box 123, Gweru, Zimbbawe. That money will be used for such essential things as digging waterholes to supply irrigation water to our farms. This is a mini, mini micro-example of what must be done all over the African continent. And when we do such things, we benefit Africans all over the world.
Just to take one example> Everyonee know that Dr. King would not recommend guerrilla warfare, and Nkrumah wrote any entire book on such warfare. And in a number of other works he recommends armed insurgency. Fanon did likewise. And Amilcar Cabral actually LED an armed anti-colonial revolt which broke the bake of Portuguese colonialism in his country (Guinee-Bissau), and helped precipitated the downfall of the fascist regime of Salazar in Portugal. Now Dr. King also wanted an end to colonialism, neoclolonialism and imperialism, but not violence

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Savant wrote:
<quoted t ext>Just to take one example> Everyonee know that Dr. King would not recommend guerrilla warfare, and Nkrumah wrote any entire book on such warfare.
I see, you are intent on a senseless and endless debate on this. Just remember that MLK apparently supported Ghana's movement independence and African Unity under Nkrumah. MLK proabably knew that Positive Action as defined by Nkrumah included both peaceful protest and armed struggle. That was never a secret. While Nkrumah supported the Civil Rights Movement in the USA, he also supported the armed Struggle in Algeria, Zimbabwe, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, and Guinea-Bissau and Mozambique. Do not lie about this and try to imply that MLK would have preferred to keep all those Africans enslaved because it is indisputable that all peaceful means had been closed to us and that Armed Struggle was the ONLY option left open to us. By Armed Struggle, I mean that as we did political work to bring about Independence and Freedom, we have a GOD-Given Right to defend ourselves when the enemy attacks us. Nkrumahism agrees with this principle. Nkrumahism has never called for attacking or invading any country outside Africa. However, when the enemy colonizes any one inch of African territory, we have a GOD-Given Right to resist and defend ourselves and our land. Do not play word games with me. And the Guide to this Armed Resistance to enemy attack is codified and reduced to a book by Nkrumah called the Handbook of Revolutionary Warfare ( http://libyadiary.files.wordpress.com/2012/09... )

MLK also keep weapons in his house for self-defense. And the Deacons of Defense accompanied MLK on his March against Fear aka the Black Power March.
Savant wrote:
<quoted t ext>And in a number of other works he recommends armed insurgency. Fanon did likewise. And Amilcar Cabral actually LED an armed anti-colonial revolt which broke the bake of Portuguese colonialism in his country (Guinee-Bissau), and helped precipitated the downfall of the fascist regime of Salazar in Portugal. Now Dr. King also wanted an end to colonialism, neoclolonialism and imperialism, but not violence
MLK was not that dumb. He had enough sense to fight back when necessary. And, I think he supported the Armed Struggle in Africa,although he would have never said so in public because saying so would have only caused confusion.

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Abdurratln wrote:
<quoted text>
I see, you are intent on a senseless and endless debate on this. Just remember that MLK apparently supported Ghana's movement independence and African Unity under Nkrumah. MLK proabably knew that Positive Action as defined by Nkrumah included both peaceful protest and armed struggle. That was never a secret. While Nkrumah supported the Civil Rights Movement in the USA, he also supported the armed Struggle in Algeria, Zimbabwe, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, and Guinea-Bissau and Mozambique. Do not lie about this and try to imply that MLK would have preferred to keep all those Africans enslaved because it is indisputable that all peaceful means had been closed to us and that Armed Struggle was the ONLY option left open to us. By Armed Struggle, I mean that as we did political work to bring about Independence and Freedom, we have a GOD-Given Right to defend ourselves when the enemy attacks us. Nkrumahism agrees with this principle. Nkrumahism has never called for attacking or invading any country outside Africa. However, when the enemy colonizes any one inch of African territory, we have a GOD-Given Right to resist and defend ourselves and our land. Do not play word games with me. And the Guide to this Armed Resistance to enemy attack is codified and reduced to a book by Nkrumah called the Handbook of Revolutionary Warfare ( http://libyadiary.files.wordpress.com/2012/09... )
MLK also keep weapons in his house for self-defense. And the Deacons of Defense accompanied MLK on his March against Fear aka the Black Power March.
<quoted text>
MLK was not that dumb. He had enough sense to fight back when necessary. And, I think he supported the Armed Struggle in Africa,although he would have never said so in public because saying so would have only caused confusion.
Martin Luther King kept weapons in his hose for awhile during the Montgomery Bus Boycott. But he also decide to get rid of them, apparently feeling that stocking an arsenal was not appropriate for a leader of a nonviolent movement. But while he insisted on strict at least TACTICAL nonviolence as far as his organization and mass demonstrations were concerned--not being foolish enough to expect MOST people to accept nonviolence as a philosophy of life--he never denied that Blacks did not have a right to armed self-defense.
A brother or sister who was nonviolent in a demonstration might very well blow off the head of a Klansman or cop who attacked his home or family. King even had no issue with folk defending themselves. But with regard to MOVEMENT and revolution he was opposed to violence, and favored the idea of revolutionary nonviolence.

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Savant wrote:
<quoted text> Martin Luther King kept weapons in his hose for awhile during the Montgomery Bus Boycott. But he also decide to get rid of them, apparently feeling that stocking an arsenal was not appropriate for a leader of a nonviolent movement. But while he insisted on strict at least TACTICAL nonviolence as far as his organization and mass demonstrations were concerned--not being foolish enough to expect MOST people to accept nonviolence as a philosophy of life--he never denied that Blacks did not have a right to armed self-defense.
A brother or sister who was nonviolent in a demonstration might very well blow off the head of a Klansman or cop who attacked his home or family. King even had no issue with folk defending themselves. But with regard to MOVEMENT and revolution he was opposed to violence, and favored the idea of revolutionary nonviolence.
Ah! So you are accusing MLJK of situational non-violence? Why blow me down. I never expected YOU to stoop so low. We Nkrumahists are NOT situationally non-violent. We see non-violence as an integral part of Positive Action against the enemy. But when that does not work, we will also employ violent self-defense. Who makes more sense to you? Nkrumahist Positive Action or Kingian "non-violence". I ask you 'cause you are a well-known "thinker".
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Abdurratln wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah! So you are accusing MLJK of situational non-violence? Why blow me down. I never expected YOU to stoop so low. We Nkrumahists are NOT situationally non-violent. We see non-violence as an integral part of Positive Action against the enemy. But when that does not work, we will also employ violent self-defense. Who makes more sense to you? Nkrumahist Positive Action or Kingian "non-violence". I ask you 'cause you are a well-known "thinker".
Dr. King supported the struggles for liberation in Africa, etc.

He said the following words:

"...These are revolutionary times. All over the globe men are revolting against old systems of exploitation and oppression and out of the wombs of a frail world new systems of justice and equality are being born. The shirtless and barefoot people of the world are rising up as never before.…We in the West must support these revolutions..." (King speech,“Beyond Vietnam,” 4/4/67

King stated a number of times in April 1967 that although he as a pacifist, if he had been called to military service against Hitler that:

“I believe I would have probably temporarily sacrificed my pacifism because Hitler was such an evil force in history.” He added,“I would willingly have fought against the Nazi menace of the 1940s.”(King speech,“Why I Oppose the War in Vietnam," 4/30/67; and Los Angeles Herald-Examiner, 4/12/67, p. B1).

Dr. King wrote these words on nonviolence:

"...I contended that the debate over the question of self-defense was unnecessary since few people suggested that Negroes should not defend themselves as individuals when attacked. The question was not whether one should use his gun when his home was attacked, but whether it was tactically wise to use a gun while participating in an organized demonstration..." (Where Do We Go, p. 27).
Timothy

Norfolk, VA

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#988
Jun 18, 2014
 

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Savant wrote:
<quoted text> Martin Luther King kept weapons in his hose for awhile during the Montgomery Bus Boycott. But he also decide to get rid of them, apparently feeling that stocking an arsenal was not appropriate for a leader of a nonviolent movement. But while he insisted on strict at least TACTICAL nonviolence as far as his organization and mass demonstrations were concerned--not being foolish enough to expect MOST people to accept nonviolence as a philosophy of life--he never denied that Blacks did not have a right to armed self-defense.
A brother or sister who was nonviolent in a demonstration might very well blow off the head of a Klansman or cop who attacked his home or family. King even had no issue with folk defending themselves. But with regard to MOVEMENT and revolution he was opposed to violence, and favored the idea of revolutionary nonviolence.
In essence, I can respect both Dr. King's and Malcolm X's views on this issue. Self defense and self preservation in my view are inherit human rights.

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Minneapolis, MN

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#989
Jun 18, 2014
 
Timothy wrote:
<quoted text>
Dr. King supported the struggles for liberation in Africa, etc.
He said the following words:
"...These are revolutionary times. All over the globe men are revolting against old systems of exploitation and oppression and out of the wombs of a frail world new systems of justice and equality are being born. The shirtless and barefoot people of the world are rising up as never before.…We in the West must support these revolutions..." (King speech,“Beyond Vietnam,” 4/4/67
King stated a number of times in April 1967 that although he as a pacifist, if he had been called to military service against Hitler that:
“I believe I would have probably temporarily sacrificed my pacifism because Hitler was such an evil force in history.” He added,“I would willingly have fought against the Nazi menace of the 1940s.”(King speech,“Why I Oppose the War in Vietnam," 4/30/67; and Los Angeles Herald-Examiner, 4/12/67, p. B1).
Dr. King wrote these words on nonviolence:
"...I contended that the debate over the question of self-defense was unnecessary since few people suggested that Negroes should not defend themselves as individuals when attacked. The question was not whether one should use his gun when his home was attacked, but whether it was tactically wise to use a gun while participating in an organized demonstration..." (Where Do We Go, p. 27).
How that rocket scientist managed to claim that MLK was in disagreement with Nkrumah is beyond me. So I have gone back to quote directly from MLK's own words regarding Osagyefo:

“I want to preach this morning from the subject: "The Birth of a New Nation." And I would like to use as a basis for our thinking together a story that has long since been stenciled on the mental sheets of succeeding generations. It is the story of the Exodus, the story of the flight of the Hebrew people from the bondage of Egypt, through the wilderness, and finally to the Promised Land. It’s a beautiful story. It is the first story of man’s explicit quest for freedom. And it demonstrates the stages that seem to inevitably follow the quest for freedom.
“You also know that for years and for centuries, Africa has been one of the most exploited continents in the history of the world.

“For years the Gold Coast was exploited and dominated and trampled over. The first European settlers came in there about 1444, the Portuguese, and they started legitimate trade with the people in the Gold Coast. They started dealing with them with their gold, and in turn they gave them guns and ammunition and gunpowder and that type of thing. Well, pretty soon America was discovered a few years later in the fourteen hundreds, and then the British West Indies. And all of these growing discoveries brought about the slave trade. You remember it started in America in 1619.

“And there was a big scramble for power in Africa. With the growth of the slave trade, there came into Africa, into the Gold Coast in particular, not only the Portuguese but also the Swedes and the Danes and the Dutch and the British. And all of these nations competed with each other to win the power of the Gold Coast so that they could exploit these people for commercial reasons and sell them into slavery.

Continued below

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Minneapolis, MN

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#990
Jun 18, 2014
 
Continued from above...

“And that seems to be the long story of history. There seems to be a throbbing desire, there seems to be an internal desire for freedom within the soul of every man. And it’s there—it might not break forth in the beginning, but eventually it breaks out Men realize that freedom is something basic, and to rob a man of his freedom is to take from him the essential basis of his manhood. To take from him his freedom is to rob him of something of God’s image.

“There is something in the soul that cries out for freedom. There is something deep down within the very soul of man that reaches out for Canaan. Men cannot be satisfied with Egypt.(MLK is speaking metaphorically about Egypt. Here, Egypt represents the oppressors in America and Western Europe.)
“rise up and begin to cry out for Canaan’s land.“And so these people got tired. It had a long history. As far back as 1844, the chiefs themselves of the Gold Coast rose up and came together and revolted against the British Empire and the other powers that were in existence at that time dominating the Gold Coast. They revolted, saying that they wanted to govern themselves.

“About 1909, a young man was born on the twelfth of September.(Osagyefo Dr, Kwame Nkrumah) History didn’t know at that time what that young man had in his mind. And that boy grew up. He went to school at Achimota for a while in Africa, and then he finished there with honors and decided to work his way to America. And he went down to Pennsylvania, to Lincoln University. He started studying there, and he started reading the great insights of the philosophers, he started reading the great insights of the ages. And he finished there and took his theological degree there and preached awhile around Philadelphia and other areas as he was in the country. And went over to the University of Pennsylvania and took up a masters there in philosophy and sociology.

“"I want to go back home. I want to go back to West Africa, the land of my people, my native land There is some work to be done there." He got a ship and went to London and stopped for a while by London School of Economy and picked up another degree there. Then while in London, he started thinking about Pan-Africanism and the problem of how to free his people from colonialism. For as he said, he always realized that colonialism was made for domination and for exploitation. It was made to keep a certain group down and exploit that group economically for the advantage of another. He studied and thought about all of this, and one day he decided to go back to Africa.

“He started writing. And his companions with him, and many of them started writing so much that the officials got afraid, and they put them in jail. And Nkrumah himself was finally placed in jail for several years because he was a seditious man, he was an agitator. He was imprisoned on the basis of sedition, and he was placed there to stay in prison for many years. But he had inspired some people outside of prison. They got together just a few months after he’d been in prison and elected him the prime minister while he was in prison.

“Then came the continual agitation, the continual resistance, so that the British Empire saw that it could no longer rule the Gold Coast. All of this was because of the persistent protest, the continual agitation on the part of Prime Minister Kwame Nkrumah and the other leaders who worked along with him and the masses of people who were willing to follow.

Continued below...

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#991
Jun 18, 2014
 
Continued from above...

“The thing that impressed me more than anything else that night was the fact that when Nkrumah walked in, and his other ministers who had been in prison with him, they didn’t come in with the crowns and all of the garments of kings, but they walked in with prison caps and the coats that they had lived with for all of the months that they had been in prison.(XXYOUTUBE-xf5CPacHt4QX X&feature=player_detailpag e)

“Free at last! Free at last!
“Great God Almighty, I’m free at last!

“And now Nkrumah stands the leader of that great nation. And when he drives out, the people standing around the streets of the city after Parliament is open, cry out: "All hail, Nkrumah!"

“If we wait for it to work itself out, it will never be worked out. Freedom only comes through persistent revolt, through persistent agitation, through persistently rising up against the system of evil. The bus protest is just the beginning. Buses are integrated in Montgomery, but that is just the beginning. And don’t sit down and do nothing now because the buses are integrated, because, if you stop now, we will be in the dungeons of segregation and discrimination for another hundred years, and our children and our children’s children will suffer all of the bondage that we have lived under for years. It never comes voluntarily. We’ve got to keep on keeping on in order to gain freedom. It never comes like that. It would be fortunate if the people in power had sense enough to go on and give up, but they don’t do it like that. It is not done voluntarily, but it is done through the pressure that comes about from people who are oppressed.

“If there had not been a Gandhi in India with all of his noble followers, India would have never been free. If there had not been an Nkrumah and his followers in Ghana, Ghana would still be a British colony. And then because there have been, in every period, there are always those people in every period of human history who don’t mind getting their necks cut off, who don’t mind being persecuted and discriminated and kicked about, because they know that freedom is never given out, but it comes through the persistent and the continual agitation and revolt on the part of those who are caught in the system. Ghana teaches us that.

“And then because there have been, in every period, there are always those people in every period of human history who don’t mind getting their necks cut off, who don’t mind being persecuted and discriminated and kicked about, because they know that freedom is never given out, but it comes through the persistent and the continual agitation and revolt on the part of those who are caught in the system. Ghana teaches us that.(This is Positive Action which also includes Armed Struggle)

Continued below...

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#992
Jun 18, 2014
 
Continued from above...

“There’s another thing that Ghana reminds us. I’m coming to the conclusion now. Ghana reminds us that freedom never comes on a silver platter. It’s never easy. Ghana reminds us that whenever you break out of Egypt, you better get ready for stiff backs. You better get ready for some homes to be bombed. You better get ready for some churches to be bombed. You better get ready for a lot of nasty things to be said about you, because you're getting out of Egypt, and, whenever you break aloose from Egypt, the initial response of the Egyptian is bitterness.

“The road to freedom is a difficult, hard road. The road to freedom is difficult.

“But finally Ghana tells us that the forces of the universe are on the side of justice.

“Moses might not get to see Canaan,(The Promised Land) but his children will see it.

“O God, our gracious Heavenly Father, help us to see the insights that come from this new nation. Help us to follow Thee and all of Thy creative works in this world, and that somehow we will discover that we are made to live together as brothers And, that it will come in this generation: the day when all men will recognize the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man. Amen.”

Excerpted from “The Birth of a New Nation,” by Martin Luther King, Jr.( http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/index.php/kingp... )

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