BLACK VALUES TODAY: What ARE THEY?
Phoenix

Houston, TX

#22 Feb 10, 2013
LAcreole wrote:
<quoted text>Hmmm I agree and disagree. The elders are very spiritual, but those my age and beyond...not at all. You're right. What do you mean by them not believing their creator?
Be encouraged

There are still morally upright God fearing youth out here.
holycrap

Powell, OH

#23 Feb 10, 2013
LAcreole wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmmm I agree and disagree. The elders are very spiritual, but those my age and beyond...not at all. You're right. What do you mean by them not believing their creator?
I don't believe the elders were any more or less spiritual than the youth. I believe the main "problem" with blacks is that they feel wrong. They constantly compare themselves to whites and that is a sign of inferiority. You even did it in your post.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#24 Feb 10, 2013
holycrap wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. Striving for cash is key to financial independence which equals more freedom. "Money" is good to have. This is much like the argument some have against guns while ignoring it is not actually the gun doing the crimes and creating chaotic communities but it is the actual person doing it. Some people are simply wicked and whether they have cash or not will not change the wicked nature they possess. It's not the cash.
Sometimes the striving for cash leads to dependency and subservience. One becomes a slave to things, and then to the people who own those things.
but Du Bois' point, and the point of many other thinkers isn't that one ought not seek a decent material standard of living, that one shouldn't obtain needed money.(Indeed the fight against poverty and economic oppression was central to their agenda) Rather, it is that money ought not be pursued as the end-all and be-all of life. It is the human personality and human community that ought to be at the highest level of one's priorities.
Remember that in the 1960s, people often had to sacrifice money ore even jobs in the quest for freedom.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#25 Feb 10, 2013
Tony Montana wrote:
First you get the money.
Then you get the power.
THEN you get the puccy.
Especially considering your third statement, it seems you regard women as simply another commodity to be collected.
Now it is attitudes such as this which makes me wonder about the state of our values.
holycrap

Powell, OH

#26 Feb 10, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Sometimes the striving for cash leads to dependency and subservience.
Sometimes this and sometimes that. It still doesn't change the fact that money helps comfort and brings more freedom.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
One becomes a slave to things, and then to the people who own those things.
Those people are stupid then. You can't change nor fix stupid. Nor can people change what they innately are.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
but Du Bois' point, and the point of many other thinkers isn't that one ought not seek a decent material standard of living, that one shouldn't obtain needed money.(Indeed the fight against poverty and economic oppression was central to their agenda)
Du Bois was reckless.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Rather, it is that money ought not be pursued as the end-all and be-all of life.
Only stupid people need to be told this and it doesn't matter how much they hear this they still are captives to their own stupidity. Not much can be done about it. Meanwhile, normal people go on to strive for a certain material standard of living focusing on what they can contribute to the world to make there desires possible.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>

It is the human personality and human community that ought to be at the highest level of one's priorities.
To some degree we all must think of humanity but not to the point where we are sitting on a god like throne pushing our beliefs on to others. At some point, we need to simply worry about ourselves and those we love.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Remember that in the 1960s, people often had to sacrifice money ore even jobs in the quest for freedom.
I don't remember much in the 60s because I wasn't thought of to be born yet.

People were already free in the 60s. Not sure what you are referring to so please elaborate.
What Up wit dat

Chesapeake, OH

#27 Feb 10, 2013
BLACK VALUES TODAY: What ARE THEY?

Sex

Drugs

Sex

Drugs

Clothing

Sex

Drugs

ETC........
wila

United States

#28 Feb 10, 2013
What Up wit dat wrote:
BLACK VALUES TODAY: What ARE THEY?
Sex
Drugs
Sex
Drugs
Clothing
Sex
Drugs
ETC........
Lol....smh

Level 1

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#29 Feb 10, 2013
A strong family unit
Healthy safe environment for children
Education and work ethic
Work hard to make sure our kids have a better future

Level 8

Since: May 08

Pacific Northwest

#30 Feb 10, 2013
Savant wrote:
I would like to see posts by sisters and brothers who seriously want to engage in a discussion and critique of our VALUES.
Good topic, Brother!

For one thing, materialism (consumerism) seems to be a core value of contemporary African-American culture - and I am just as susceptible as the next brother.

Expensive shiny things and gadgets seem to pull us in very easily.(I am probably going to buy my first flat-screen TV in a few days; I have my eye on a Sony 42" model...lol)

On the other hand, I don't have children to support. I question the logic of those who aren't providing a savings account for their childrens' college education, but are busy buying new cars and such. That seems like an example of misplaced priorities.

Level 8

Since: May 08

Pacific Northwest

#31 Feb 13, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Especially considering your third statement, it seems you regard women as simply another commodity to be collected.

Now it is attitudes such as this which makes me wonder about the state of our values.
LOL! On the other hand, what does it say about our values that so many womenfolk find themselves in a position where they are *willing* to be commodified?

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#32 Feb 15, 2013
Harrisson wrote:
<quoted text>
Good topic, Brother!
For one thing, materialism (consumerism) seems to be a core value of contemporary African-American culture - and I am just as susceptible as the next brother.
Expensive shiny things and gadgets seem to pull us in very easily.(I am probably going to buy my first flat-screen TV in a few days; I have my eye on a Sony 42" model...lol)
On the other hand, I don't have children to support. I question the logic of those who aren't providing a savings account for their childrens' college education, but are busy buying new cars and such. That seems like an example of misplaced priorities.
I'm wondering whether and to what extent our values have changed for the worse. Have you ever looked at bell hooks book YEARNING. There's an interesting essay therein titled "Black Community" (or "ON Black Community"), with possibly the subtitle "Chitlin Circuit." She talks about the strong bonds of communal love and solidarity that she experienced in her small Black Kentucky, a community not as infested by corrupt capitalist values as are our communities today; a small southern Black community with intergeneration bonds (e.g. teachers who taught your mama and maybe grandmama, as well as you).
I recall in one of Dr. King's later books his talk about the cohesiveness of the Black Community. Can we speak of this today except maybe in some of the smaller (and diminishing) southern Black communities.
"Money is life" says Walter to his mother in RAISIN IN THE SUN."So now money is life?" replies the mother. "once it was FREEDOM and holding together, but now its's money. You're my children, but how DIFFERENT you are!"
(Not exact word for word from Lorraine Hansberry's play,but the gist of it.)
In RACE MATTERS (not his best book, but interesting) Cornel West talks about how the values of the market place have undermined our communal values and unities, and leaving a void of nihilism in its place.
We are clearly facing a cultural crisis.
Games we play

Atlanta, GA

#33 Feb 15, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>

it is that money ought not be pursued as the end-all and be-all of life. It is the human personality and human community that ought to be at the highest level of one's priorities.
Remember that in the 1960s, people often had to sacrifice money ore even jobs in the quest for freedom.
This is why white people are in power. They understand money is a commodity. The people who run the world are rich and money is their end-all and be-all. They are often cheap bastards who step on the poor to stay rich. Why you would adivse anyone to not put money as a priority is stupid to me.

I for one don't care about my community anymore because they don't care about me. To me the most important value is FAMILY!!!!! I will do what ever needed to provide for my FAMILY. That is why men are created to take care of their FAMILY. THAT IS THE MOST IMPROTANT VALUE IN THE WORLD. TO PROVIDE FOR AND PROTECT YOUR FAMILY, YOU NEED MONEY.
Juan Cuchifrito

United States

#34 Feb 15, 2013
Savant wrote:
I would like to see posts by sisters and brothers who seriously want to engage in a discussion and critique of our VALUES.
Anyone who would argue along the lines of what your aiming at will likely be branded an uncle tom or a cornball brotha. It's a sorry state of affairs but I see no real solution in the near future.
Juan Cuchifrito

United States

#35 Feb 15, 2013
Harrisson wrote:
<quoted text>
(I am probably going to buy my first flat-screen TV in a few days; I have my eye on a Sony 42" model...lol)
Huh? Ummm I think you are running a bit behind ...Probably not as materialistic as you think you are.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#36 Feb 16, 2013
holycrap wrote:
<quoted text> Sometimes this and sometimes that. It still doesn't change the fact that money helps comfort and brings more freedom.
<quoted text> Those people are stupid then. You can't change nor fix stupid. Nor can people change what they innately are.
<quoted text> Du Bois was reckless.
<quoted text> Only stupid people need to be told this and it doesn't matter how much they hear this they still are captives to their own stupidity. Not much can be done about it. Meanwhile, normal people go on to strive for a certain material standard of living focusing on what they can contribute to the world to make there desires possible.
<quoted text> To some degree we all must think of humanity but not to the point where we are sitting on a god like throne pushing our beliefs on to others. At some point, we need to simply worry about ourselves and those we love.
<quoted text> I don't remember much in the 60s because I wasn't thought of to be born yet.
People were already free in the 60s. Not sure what you are referring to so please elaborate.
Sorry for the latness of my reply. But here goes.
You say that money brings comfort and freedom, but you forget it also brings to others misery and slavery. It was for the sake of money and profits that men traded in slaves. Slavery was a billion dollar enterprise. For the same of money we had the horrors of child labor. For the sake of their profits Big Business often threw their support behind Hitler, Mussolini and Franco.
You say that people ar stupid if they become (as I indicated) a slave to things, and thence to thosw who own things. If so, there are a lot of stupid people--possible a majority. For in our capitalist society nearly everyone becomes related to the status of things while becoming addicted to things. That's how the market works. People are addicted to possessiveness thanks to our consumerist culture.
You call Du Bois reckless, but I think him INSIGHTFUL. Most of the great philosophers and religious teachers of history would agree with him on this point: One SHOULD seek, and everyone should have, a decent material standard of living; enough to enable a dignified life. Seek then a decent material standard of living, but never become slaves of materialism Do not mistake the means of life for the ends of life. And NEVER message oneself or others by the size of their wallets, cars and bank acounts.
I don't understand why you speak of pushing our beliefs on others. I never advocated any such thing, nor was this the point at issue. Hence I think it's a red herring.
My point is that we need to AFFIRM LIFE; that life and freedom is more valuable than all the gold of Fort Knox. And that the human personality of every man, woman and child--even the lowliest bum in the street-is of greater value that all the accumulated profits of all teh mightiest corporations in the world. But as our sense of human dignity seems to have waned in America, Dr. King is right: We need a revolution of values that will transform us from a thing-oriented society to a person-oriented society.
As for the 1960s, people were NOT free. That's the reason why you had FREEDOM MOVEMENTS beginning in Black America, and eventually spreading throughout America. The Struggle continues!

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#37 Feb 16, 2013
Juan Cuchifrito wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone who would argue along the lines of what your aiming at will likely be branded an uncle tom or a cornball brotha. It's a sorry state of affairs but I see no real solution in the near future.
Or I might be denunced as a Communist since I'm challenging the supremacy of market-oriented values. I want to restore HUMAN VALUES, and to form a human world.
Cornel west believes that our forbears once understood this; that without those values our Movement could not have happened in the 1960s. After all, you might have had to RISK your money, your job, your house ane even your LIFE.
No way people would have made those sacrifices if they subscribed to values of acquisitiveness, narcissism, hedonism and the whole profiteering ethos which drives America to incinerate people in Irag and Iran on hehalf of Haliburton's profits, or allows kids to shoot each other over a pair sneakers.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#38 Feb 16, 2013
Games we play wrote:
<quoted text>
This is why white people are in power. They understand money is a commodity. The people who run the world are rich and money is their end-all and be-all. They are often cheap bastards who step on the poor to stay rich. Why you would adivse anyone to not put money as a priority is stupid to me.
I for one don't care about my community anymore because they don't care about me. To me the most important value is FAMILY!!!!! I will do what ever needed to provide for my FAMILY. That is why men are created to take care of their FAMILY. THAT IS THE MOST IMPROTANT VALUE IN THE WORLD. TO PROVIDE FOR AND PROTECT YOUR FAMILY, YOU NEED MONEY.
This is also the reason why MOST white people are POWERFLESS: They are THEMSELVES commodity by which the commodity of money is made. SOME of them have become aware of this. Hence the eruption for a while of the Occupy Movement. Let su be aware of the reality of class as well as race. YOu speak of those cheap rich bastards--the 1%--who step on the poor. TENS OF MILLIONS of whites ARE poor. They're getting stepped on by the rich, most of whom are also white. They've often been deluded by racism, but some (not yet most) are beginning to open their eyes--to see what WE (or most of us) have always seen: the fundamental INJUSTICE of a society that treats human beings as things, and not even as the most valuable of things.
You speak of FAMILY. And that's important. But it is the increasing domination of sociel life by the market, and MARKET VALUES, that is largely responsible for destroying family life, and all decent human relations.
It is such values which destroy COMMUNITY, without which the family and the INDIVIDUAL can hardly exist as such.
We must cast off these corrosive values; make only such concessions as must be made to live, and repudiate the culture of consumerism, the sanctifying of money, and the corrosive ethos of "rugged individualism."
Maybe we should think along the lines of COOPERATIVES in economic life, and in social life generally to the extent that it is possible.
We must chart a new course, form new modes of social existence, and new values which affirms the right to community and the dignity of every human personality.
Otherwise, there will be no future; or else our future will be a NIGHTMARE!
holycrap

Powell, OH

#39 Feb 17, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text> Sorry for the latness of my reply. But here goes.
It's okay. I understand you needed to get rested up.:)
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>

You say that money brings comfort and freedom but you forget it also brings to others misery and slavery.
It is a fact that money brings greater comfort and generally more freedom. Even if ones freedom is compromised somewhat because of money, they still generally more comfortable.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>

It was for the sake of money and profits that men traded in slaves.
No, it wasn't. The slave created his need.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>

Slavery was a billion dollar enterprise.
The slave made himself profitable.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
For the same of money we had the horrors of child labor. For the sake of their profits Big Business often threw their support behind Hitler, Mussolini and Franco.
That's not the money itself doing it. It is evil that makes that possible. Evil and Good are warring factions. Whether money existed or not, evil would still exist. There would still be plenty instances of evildoers.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
You say that people ar stupid if they become (as I indicated) a slave to things, and thence to thosw who own things. If so, there are a lot of stupid people--possible a majority.
Well you said it, I didn't.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
For in our capitalist society nearly everyone becomes related to the status of things while becoming addicted to things. That's how the market works. People are addicted to possessiveness thanks to our consumerist culture.
It's left up to each individual to make this call and make appropriate changes.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
You call Du Bois reckless, but I think him INSIGHTFUL.
I don't like Du Bois from a historical perspective. In fact, it's not many so called "insightful philosophers" I enjoy reading about. Lots of them, such as Du Bois, were dumb, reckless and KKK members.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of the great philosophers and religious teachers of history would agree with him on this point: One SHOULD seek, and everyone should have, a decent material standard of living; enough to enable a dignified life. Seek then a decent material standard of living, but never become slaves of materialism Do not mistake the means of life for the ends of life. And NEVER message oneself or others by the size of their wallets, cars and bank acounts.
He just repeated what was already said. Again, this is for stupid people. Normal people already know this.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't understand why you speak of pushing our beliefs on others. I never advocated any such thing, nor was this the point at issue.
Yes, actually you do attempt to push your beliefs on others. You've done it more than once in this post alone. For one, you call Du Bois insightful without any regard to this being your onw personal opinion. I, frankly, found him boring in a historical sense and quite reckless. So, don't assume.
holycrap

Powell, OH

#40 Feb 17, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>

Hence I think it's a red herring.
My point is that we need to AFFIRM LIFE; that life and freedom is more valuable than all the gold of Fort Knox.
I agree.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>

And that the human personality of every man, woman and child--even the lowliest bum in the street-is of greater value that all the accumulated profits of all teh mightiest corporations in the world.
I do not agree with this at all. Some things are simply better and should be treated as such. The bum needs to not be a bum because his life may be important BUT his value is virtually non existent.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>

But as our sense of human dignity seems to have waned in America,
How has it waned exactly? Let's not forget, this is a slave country. Seems to me things are operating as they have always operated.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>

Dr. King is right: We need a revolution of values that will transform us from a thing-oriented society to a person-oriented society.
Well he was killed wasn't he? That should tell you right there what society wants.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
As for the 1960s, people were NOT free. That's the reason why you had FREEDOM MOVEMENTS beginning in Black America, and eventually spreading throughout America. The Struggle continues!
Lincoln freed the enslaved in 1863 and made it illegal everywhere in 1865. So, I simply don't know why you are bringing up the 60s. The freedom movements were simply redundancy for what was already done because we have a bunch of simpletons who want credit for what someone else did.

There is no struggle except for the one to suppress the ignorant, egomaniacs and the stupidly arrogant.

Level 6

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#41 Feb 17, 2013
Bubba wrote:
Black values = rap music, blame whitey, and baggy pants.
White values= lying cheating stealing other peoples cultures (because they don't have any) bestiality etc. the list is endless don't feel like typing that much right now!!! lol.

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