Two Muggers in GA,Shoot Baby in fron...
Jaxn77

Boiling Springs, SC

#955 Apr 11, 2013
KIP wrote:
<quoted text>
THANK YOU!!
BRAVO!!
You finally admitted that, "Nobody but DeMarquis Elkins knows for certain what was going through his mind when he shot that baby in the face." You just said so yourself.
You DON'T know for sure what it was all about. Because of YOUR own race bias, YOU assume he shot the baby for being white. Who's to say it wasn't all part of some gang initiation or whatever? It was a robbery attempt after all wasn't it? Beyond a reasonable doubt you have no argument for any hate crime, because there is no EVIDENCE. I'd say you're about as far off as earth is to the planet Pluto if think this was a hate crime.
"Nobody but DeMarquis Elkins knows for certain what was going through his mind when he shot that baby in the face" includes you, too, rocket scientist. You are just THE SUCKER that took the bait when I called DeMarquis Elkins actions a HATE CRIME. And yet you CONTINUE to make my point for me. Either ALL crimes can be classified as hate crimes by definition, or NO crimes can be classified by definition as hate crimes, because it leaves it up to us mere humans to pick and choose which crimes to label hate crimes. That, proven, CANNOT be done without the ugly presence of bias.
I also criticize hate crime legislation for exacerbating conflicts between groups. I assert that by defining crimes as being committed by one group against another, rather than as being committed by individuals against their society, and that the labeling of crimes as “hate crimes”, causes groups to feel persecuted by one another, and that this impression of persecution can incite a backlash and thus lead to an actual INCREASE in crime. Some have argued hate crime laws bring the law into disrepute, and further divide society, as groups apply to have their critics silenced. Some have argued that IF it is true that ALL VIOLENT CRIMES are the result of the perpetrator's contempt for the victim, then ALL CRIMES ARE HATE CRIMES. Thus, if there is no alternate rationale for prosecuting some people more harshly for the same crime based on who the victim is, then different defendants are treated unequally under the law, which violates the United States Constitution.
So, again, either Antonio Santiago IS the victim of a hate crime, or NOBODY is a victim of a hate crime.
KIP

San Francisco, CA

#956 Apr 11, 2013
Jaxn77 wrote:
<quoted text>
"Nobody but DeMarquis Elkins knows for certain what was going through his mind when he shot that baby in the face" includes you, too, rocket scientist. You are just THE SUCKER that took the bait when I called DeMarquis Elkins actions a HATE CRIME. And yet you CONTINUE to make my point for me. Either ALL crimes can be classified as hate crimes by definition, or NO crimes can be classified by definition as hate crimes, because it leaves it up to us mere humans to pick and choose which crimes to label hate crimes. That, proven, CANNOT be done without the ugly presence of bias.
I also criticize hate crime legislation for exacerbating conflicts between groups. I assert that by defining crimes as being committed by one group against another, rather than as being committed by individuals against their society, and that the labeling of crimes as “hate crimes”, causes groups to feel persecuted by one another, and that this impression of persecution can incite a backlash and thus lead to an actual INCREASE in crime. Some have argued hate crime laws bring the law into disrepute, and further divide society, as groups apply to have their critics silenced. Some have argued that IF it is true that ALL VIOLENT CRIMES are the result of the perpetrator's contempt for the victim, then ALL CRIMES ARE HATE CRIMES. Thus, if there is no alternate rationale for prosecuting some people more harshly for the same crime based on who the victim is, then different defendants are treated unequally under the law, which violates the United States Constitution.
So, again, either Antonio Santiago IS the victim of a hate crime, or NOBODY is a victim of a hate crime.
I don't see any valid points you've made.

Perhaps you've convinced yourself of something, but you haven't proven anything to me, other than the fact that you practice bias and delude yourself into thinking you're fair.

Hate crime legislation is no more responsible for exacerbating conflicts between groups, than drunk driving laws are responsible for making people drink. The key is to simply OBEY the law and respect your fellow citizens. When you do this there is not need to worry about the law. Furthermore, there is no study that shows how hate crime legislation has been responsible for any increased tension between groups of people. Again, the idea is to respect the law. It was put into place for a reason. Just because people argue against a law doesn't make it invalid. There were just as many if not more people in favor of the law in the first place.

It's silly to propose that all crimes are hate crimes. Crimes of passion are obviously not hate crimes, LOL. There are murder-suicides, assault, vandalism, molestations, theft, and rapes that are not motivated by any form of hate. Nobody is picking and choosing anything. The law is the law. If anything I'd say YOU like to provide your own interpretation of what legislation actually is. You did this with your "algorithm" that guages criminal activity by simply fingering the population of blacks.

Raptors Revenge

“Democraps are stupid.”

Level 5

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#957 Apr 11, 2013
KIP wrote:
<quoted text>
THANK YOU!!
BRAVO!!
You finally admitted that, "Nobody but DeMarquis Elkins knows for certain what was going through his mind when he shot that baby in the face." You just said so yourself.
You DON'T know for sure what it was all about. Because of YOUR own race bias, YOU assume he shot the baby for being white. Who's to say it wasn't all part of some gang initiation or whatever? It was a robbery attempt after all wasn't it? Beyond a reasonable doubt you have no argument for any hate crime, because there is no EVIDENCE. I'd say you're about as far off as earth is to the planet Pluto if think this was a hate crime.
Are you really that fckin stupid kipper? Really?

It was a hate crime and you know it.

How pathetic. And blacks wonder why everyone stereotypes them them so much. Maybe you all are alike. Just jungle slugs leaving their trail of slime on the globe. A pathetic waste of life.
Jaxn77

United States

#958 Apr 12, 2013
Raptors Revenge wrote:
<quoted text>Are you really that fckin stupid kipper? Really?
It was a hate crime and you know it.
How pathetic. And blacks wonder why everyone stereotypes them them so much. Maybe you all are alike. Just jungle slugs leaving their trail of slime on the globe. A pathetic waste of life.
By Kippers reasoning, if George Zimmerman were ROBBING Trayvon, then it could NOT possibly have been a hate crime. It could only have been a botched robbery. But because George became over zealous playing cop, and things turned bad, THEN it is possible it WAS a hate crime. Why does he refuse to see how idiotic that sounds? That puzzled me the most about his reasoning a few posts ago. I'm still baffled.
Jaxn77

United States

#959 Apr 12, 2013
KIP wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't see any valid points you've made.
Perhaps you've convinced yourself of something, but you haven't proven anything to me, other than the fact that you practice bias and delude yourself into thinking you're fair.
Hate crime legislation is no more responsible for exacerbating conflicts between groups, than drunk driving laws are responsible for making people drink. The key is to simply OBEY the law and respect your fellow citizens. When you do this there is not need to worry about the law. Furthermore, there is no study that shows how hate crime legislation has been responsible for any increased tension between groups of people. Again, the idea is to respect the law. It was put into place for a reason. Just because people argue against a law doesn't make it invalid. There were just as many if not more people in favor of the law in the first place.
It's silly to propose that all crimes are hate crimes. Crimes of passion are obviously not hate crimes, LOL. There are murder-suicides, assault, vandalism, molestations, theft, and rapes that are not motivated by any form of hate. Nobody is picking and choosing anything. The law is the law. If anything I'd say YOU like to provide your own interpretation of what legislation actually is. You did this with your "algorithm" that guages criminal activity by simply fingering the population of blacks.
How can ANYONE be unbiased enough to decide WHICH crimes of passions, murder-suicides, assaults, vandalisms, molestations, thefts, and rapes ARE or ARE NOT hate crimes? And isn't a hate crime just another form of a crime of passion? Judges have been proven to be biased, and nobody wants the result of a sentence being less or more harsh by some judges prejudice for a race, lifestyle, or religion.
Jaxn77

Boiling Springs, SC

#960 Apr 12, 2013
BRUNSWICK, Ga.-- A judge said Friday he wants a trial before the end of the year for a teenager charged with fatally shooting a 13-month-old baby in the face.
"I do expect we will try this case by the end of this year," Kelley told the attorneys at the end of a bond hearing Friday morning.
The judge denied Elkins' request for bond, saying he was concerned the suspect might flee if he was released.
Elkins faces life in prison if convicted of malice murder in the March 21 slaying of Antonio Santiago.
The suspect's 78-year-old great grandfather, McKinley Elkins Jr., took the witness stand and promised the judge he would personally look after his great grandson if he was released from jail pending trial.

"I truly believe, deep down in my heart, that he will be a gentleman from this day forward," the elder Elkins said.

But just how well the great grandfather knew Elkins was called into question when he was unable to tell District Attorney Jackie Johnson where the teenager went to school, whether he had any tattoos, or even where he lived.
Roderic Nohilly, a Glynn County police detective, told the judge Elkins had several tattoos - a teardrop by his right eye, his mother's name on his right arm, a skull on his abdomen and the words "Thug Life" across his chest.
Nohilly said Elkins' tattoos contained symbols affiliated with gangs. Gough argued that Elkins' tattoos aren't proof that he's a gang member and said it's unlikely Elkins even knows what the symbols are supposed to mean.
"Are you familiar with the word 'poser,'" Gough asked the detective. "There are quite a few young men who run around town trying to pretend they're something they are not, aren't there?"
Nohilly said he agreed there were. "Some of them carrying guns," he said.
Jaxn77

Boiling Springs, SC

#961 Apr 12, 2013
BRUNSWICK, Ga.-- One of the people connected to the Brunswick Baby Murder case may soon be released from jail.
Sabrina Elkins was granted a $25,000 bond on Wednesday.
Elkins told the court she was on the "straight and narrow," until she was arrested.
"Sir, I was going to school in May to be a doctor," she said.
The 19-year-old sister of accused baby killer DeMarquise Elkins is now charged with felony evidence tampering.
Police say she and her mother, Karimah, tried to hide the gun police believe DeMarquise used to kill 13-month-old Antonio Santiago last month.
Police say the mother and daughter threw the weapon in a salt water pond about three miles from the crime scene.
The woman accused of helping to cover up the crime is the same woman who told Action News cameras the day after the murder that her brother was innocent.
On March 22, Sabrina Elkins told us, "My brother is locked up for no reason, and it's hurting my heart because he's locked up for no reason, period!"
Police say DeMarquise Elkins, 17, and Dominique Lang, 15, tried to rob the baby's mother. And when they didn't get what they wanted, police say they shot her and the baby. The mother, Sherry West, survived.
Now, a total of four Elkins family members are named in the indictment. DeMarquise, his mom, his sister, and his aunt, Katrina, who police say lied to them by providing DeMarquise with an alibi.
So far, Sabrina is the only one who's been granted bond.
Conditions of her release include 24/7 GPS monitoring. She will be on house arrest. And she cannot have any contact with any witnesses or co-defendants.
DeMarquise Elkins was denied bond last week due to possible gang ties. Dominique Lang's attorney told us she would not seek bond for her client, that he was safer in jail. She has requested the two teenagers be tried separately.
In another new development, the state filed an order requesting the attorneys working on this case to no longer speak to the media. The judge approved that request, saying media coverage could make it difficult for the defendants to get a fair trial.
Dominique Lang, Karimah Elkins, and Katrina Elkins are due in court again next week for arraignment hearings.
Jaxn77

Boiling Springs, SC

#962 Apr 12, 2013
Roderic Nohilly, a gang investigator with the Glynn County Police Department, described the teen's tattoos. He said, "The tattoo on Mr. Elkins right arm, which is the name of his mother, Karimah, over the "I" is a five point star. That is common for the "People Nation" gangs, including the "Bloods."
The investigator described three burn scars in the shape of a triangle on Elkins arm. "Those three marks generally signify in gang culture the three places that a gang member will end up, which is the hospital, prison or the morgue."
That alleged gang affiliation was a key factor in a judge deciding to keep Elkins in jail.
Judge Stephen Kelley said, "I hereby deny bond at this time."
Elkins, 17, is accused of shooting a 13-month-old baby in what the child's mother described as an attempted robbery on March 21.
Elkins' attorney, Kevin Gough, says his client is not guilty. "We're presumed innocent until proven guilty."
The judge did say Elkins will be tried by the end of the year, setting another court date for next month.
A gag order is also being considered, which means anyone involved in the case will be restricted from talking about it.
The other suspect in this case, Dominique Lang, 15, is also in jail right now. His attorney told us she would not seek bond for him, saying Lang is safer behind bars.
KIP

San Francisco, CA

#963 Apr 12, 2013
Raptors Revenge wrote:
<quoted text>Are you really that fckin stupid kipper? Really?
It was a hate crime and you know it.
How pathetic. And blacks wonder why everyone stereotypes them them so much. Maybe you all are alike. Just jungle slugs leaving their trail of slime on the globe. A pathetic waste of life.
Where's the EVIDENCE?!!

What PROOF do you have that an actual crime motivated by hate was committed?
Have you even bothered your half-wit, lazy ass to read and UNDERSTAND the criteria for a hate crime?
I could care less about your opinion of blacks. I'm more than sure there are many who think the same about you -- that you're a racist piece of shyt --- but without evidence of any hate crime here you're at a loss.
KIP

San Francisco, CA

#964 Apr 12, 2013
Jaxn77 wrote:
<quoted text>
By Kippers reasoning, if George Zimmerman were ROBBING Trayvon, then it could NOT possibly have been a hate crime. It could only have been a botched robbery. But because George became over zealous playing cop, and things turned bad, THEN it is possible it WAS a hate crime. Why does he refuse to see how idiotic that sounds? That puzzled me the most about his reasoning a few posts ago. I'm still baffled.
You're the idiot and here's why:

Zimmerman was out patrolling the neighborhood. He wasn't SPECIFICALLY looking to shoot some one for being black. Do you understand that much? Let me make a bit more clear, because I get the feeling you might not be able to understand the mild complexity here:

George Zimmerman was not motivated by anything hateful. He wasn't yelling racist slurs. He wasn't linked to any of your Klan or white supremacist organizations. He didn't have any race-hate tattoos and wasn't in possession of any race-hate literature. He wasn't KNOWN as a race biased person and had no prior arrests for race hate. He even had black friend who came out in his defense. Zimmerman's own paranoid suspicion led to an altercation and he shot a kid. It's very simple.

It's not my reasoning that you're having a hard time with. It's your own understanding of the law.
KIP

San Francisco, CA

#965 Apr 12, 2013
Raptors Revenge wrote:
<quoted text> And blacks wonder why everyone stereotypes them them so much. Maybe you all are alike. Just jungle slugs leaving their trail of slime on the globe. A pathetic waste of life.
This is from someone who's SO biased that he obviously doesn't give a shyt anyway, LOL.

Priceless!
Jumper The Wise

Morgantown, KY

#966 Apr 12, 2013
As a non-racist,I find myself disliking the arrogance of the African American comunity over this act of violence.
KIP

San Francisco, CA

#967 Apr 12, 2013
Jumper The Wise wrote:
As a non-racist,I find myself disliking the arrogance of the African American comunity over this act of violence.
Too bad you are not smart enough to differentiate the actions of these individuals from the entire community.
jimmax

Clearwater Beach, FL

#968 Apr 12, 2013
KIP wrote:
<quoted text>
THANK YOU!!
BRAVO!!
You finally admitted that, "Nobody but DeMarquis Elkins knows for certain what was going through his mind when he shot that baby in the face." You just said so yourself.
You DON'T know for sure what it was all about. Because of YOUR own race bias, YOU assume he shot the baby for being white. Who's to say it wasn't all part of some gang initiation or whatever? It was a robbery attempt after all wasn't it? Beyond a reasonable doubt you have no argument for any hate crime, because there is no EVIDENCE. I'd say you're about as far off as earth is to the planet Pluto if think this was a hate crime.
"gang initiation", oh please. Nobody can say for certain what was going though his depraved mind, but an inordinate hatred of whites seems like a reasonable speculation considering the circumstances.
KIP

San Francisco, CA

#969 Apr 12, 2013
jimmax wrote:
<quoted text>"gang initiation", oh please. Nobody can say for certain what was going though his depraved mind, but an inordinate hatred of whites seems like a reasonable speculation considering the circumstances.
If that's the case then how come there is no indication of this so-called " inordinate hatred of whites" ?
If he shot a black baby under the same circumstances would you still come this wacky conclusion?

The idiot shot a baby. Just because it was a white baby doesn't make it a hate crime. A woman with a baby is an easy target. Criminals prefer easy targets -- the defenseless, the unarmed, the vulnerable -- all are easy targets. The woman was unarmed, defenseless, and with the baby she was vulnerable. To the kid she looked like an easy score to rob for money.

It isn't any more complex than that.
jimmax

United States

#970 Apr 12, 2013
KIP wrote:
<quoted text>
If that's the case then how come there is no indication of this so-called " inordinate hatred of whites" ?
If he shot a black baby under the same circumstances would you still come this wacky conclusion?
The idiot shot a baby. Just because it was a white baby doesn't make it a hate crime. A woman with a baby is an easy target. Criminals prefer easy targets -- the defenseless, the unarmed, the vulnerable -- all are easy targets. The woman was unarmed, defenseless, and with the baby she was vulnerable. To the kid she looked like an easy score to rob for money.
It isn't any more complex than that.
omg dude people even criminals just don't shoot babies point blank like that unless there is something major sick going one in their minds. Whether race was a factor we can't say for sure without further evidence, just saying that it might very well be something along those lines. What is your prob imagining that reverse race hate exists and might be a factor? Your responses are somewhat telling that that thought is a no go area or something for you. Get real.
Jaxn77

Boiling Springs, SC

#971 Apr 12, 2013
jimmax wrote:
<quoted text>omg dude people even criminals just don't shoot babies point blank like that unless there is something major sick going one in their minds. Whether race was a factor we can't say for sure without further evidence, just saying that it might very well be something along those lines. What is your prob imagining that reverse race hate exists and might be a factor? Your responses are somewhat telling that that thought is a no go area or something for you. Get real.
Agreed. There is always the chance that Zimmerman and Elkins both have a deep rooted racial hatred. There is always the chance that both have a love for all races. But arguing a 100% certainty of knowing any motivation would require the magical skill of a mind reader. Kippers magical ability to do so without even the investigation being completed displays a questionable type of bias. Laws that require that skill, such as hate crime legislation, and have a group bias element factored into it, should be avoided at all costs in a justice motivated society.
DeMarquis has gang symbols tattooed all over his body. His sick hatred could easily have included his own race. If he shot a black baby and had 3 Ks, and 88s tattooed all over his body, would Kipper hold to his "no chance it's a hate crime" stand? Doubtful. If Zimmerman had these tattoos, then definitely not. And unfortunately, the ugly face of bias, is present in our laws, too.
black man1

Coatesville, PA

#972 Apr 12, 2013
Jumper The Wise wrote:
As a non-racist,I find myself disliking the arrogance of the African American comunity over this act of violence.
what arrogance jumper the idiot? here you go posting stupid comments again...lol. jumper the idiot fits you!
KIP

San Francisco, CA

#973 Apr 12, 2013
Jaxn77 wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed. There is always the chance that Zimmerman and Elkins both have a deep rooted racial hatred. There is always the chance that both have a love for all races. But arguing a 100% certainty of knowing any motivation would require the magical skill of a mind reader. Kippers magical ability to do so without even the investigation being completed displays a questionable type of bias. Laws that require that skill, such as hate crime legislation, and have a group bias element factored into it, should be avoided at all costs in a justice motivated society.
DeMarquis has gang symbols tattooed all over his body. His sick hatred could easily have included his own race. If he shot a black baby and had 3 Ks, and 88s tattooed all over his body, would Kipper hold to his "no chance it's a hate crime" stand? Doubtful. If Zimmerman had these tattoos, then definitely not. And unfortunately, the ugly face of bias, is present in our laws, too.
The law doesn't work that way.

Sorry, but speculating doesn't prove anything. The gang tattoos were not affiliated with any kind of anti-white bias. The FACTS are that thugs asked for money. You're making a mountain out of a molehill that doesn't exist. I already know from your own comments that you have race bias against blacks, so don't come here and try to make it sound like that is not influencing your silly idea about this being a hate crime.

I don't really care about anyone's race or race bias. I DO care about justice being served fairly. Do you?

Raptors Revenge

“Democraps are stupid.”

Level 5

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#974 Apr 13, 2013
KIP wrote:
<quoted text>
Where's the EVIDENCE?!!
What PROOF do you have that an actual crime motivated by hate was committed?
Have you even bothered your half-wit, lazy ass to read and UNDERSTAND the criteria for a hate crime?
I could care less about your opinion of blacks. I'm more than sure there are many who think the same about you -- that you're a racist piece of shyt --- but without evidence of any hate crime here you're at a loss.
It's a hate crime. Something as simple as common sense will tell you that. Something blacks lack in abundance.

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